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Marth Frame Data

3xSwords

3xSwords

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Why do people think its possible? At least I'm highly skeptical at the prospects of this although I look forward to the results... and wtf @ second hit tipper of d-smash shield hitstun?

Edit: Also Steel will you find the shield hitstun for first hit nair? Tipper and untipper?
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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^dtilt infinite. Just jkn =b

Take it to pm's you two. 3x and steel already said it, but you guys aren't even arguing much about the first hit of nair anymore...

And I am highly doubtful that SHFF first hit of nair is an infinite. Didn't we figure out it was only 11 frames(I was unsure of to what degree you were correcting me steel since you said all of those things seemed possible). It's pretty obvious that a SHFF is more than 11 frames, and even if it were 11 frames exactly, that would mean inhuman timing to get it off. A 1 frame time slot. Unless there's a way to reliably buffer this, meh....but even still

I tested this with my roommate and he couldn't get out off (at 1/4 speed)an air dodge, jump, or shield for a fsmash....One peculiar thing I noticed is that the character you're hitting slightly lifts off the ground. That stops them from spot dodging as soon as they get out. I'm not sure about this, but hmm....Just saying what's on my mind about it.
 
Steel

Steel

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yeah forget that thought, you can probably get a regular nair off but forget another first hit nair
 
∫unk

∫unk

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His point fails to address the key points that I brought up, which are his lack of knowledge/experience in things he claims he has, plus his resistance to re-examining a potentially useful setup.

Instead he likes to focus on the flaming part which is just part of the game. Lots of bark but no bite.

I don't really understand his insistence on calling me child considering it has no effect on how I play or how I post (I simply addressed it), and more importantly it's making his flames weaker cause it seems like he has nothing substantial to go off of.

LOL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5lyuR81JpQ

**** talk is weak, Marth is weak, close minded. Anything else? PM me lmk.

Edit: Steel/3x/fear: Point taken. Although I'm still trying to argue the substantial while Shaya is on the superficial. This post being the exception because he failed to address anything that I can actually respond to.
 
Steel

Steel

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Guys for now don't take most of this stuff as completely accurate, ill be working with ankoku a bit to make sure this all gets 100% correct. ill slowly be updating and adding stuff

first hit nair lag is 8 frames i believe. non tipped stun is 25 (4 frames of hit lag) and tipped stun is like 34 (8 frames of hit lag)
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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Some oddities I noticed:

Forward Smash
Hit: 10
End: 49
Shield Stun: 7
~Shield Hit Lag: 6
Tipper Shield Stun: -1
~Shield Hit Lag: 17

wtf? -1 shield stun? >_>

And for first hit nair what does "**** Hit lag 4" mean?

And a question... is the landing lag the same for an aerial if you landed during the attack animation regardless if you FF'd or not?
 
Steel

Steel

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yes, -1 shield stun. marth is still in hit lag while your opponent can unshield. your opponent then has 33 frames to run up to you and punish

and lmao, horrendous typo is horrendous. that should say shield i think.

and like i put for first hit nair, it was 8 frames of landing lag. so im guessing that goes for fair and uair too, but ill test it

a LOT of this is going to get updated, so dont rely on it for now. the only legit stuff is most of the DB and fsmash... more to be fixed soon. though the frames stuff comes out on is correct i believe
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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Dude you better clear that up, because that is taking into account shield stun and shield hit stun, so it could be misinterpreted.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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First frame of hit confirm, Frame 0


First frame that shieldhitlag is over, Frame 11


First frame that Snake is back in neutral shield state, Frame 16


First frame that Marth's hitlag is over, Frame 17
First frame of Snake performing an action (grab)

Therefore, since Marth's fsmash connects on frame 10 and still has to follow through, and Snake is in neutral shield state as soon as frame 16. Therefore, he can act 40 frames before Marth can do anything. He is also effectively out of shieldstun 1 frame before Marth is out of hitlag.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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I understand that but it doesn't mean -1 shield stun.... And isn't this the same story for tipper d-smash 2 and u-smash? Just do f-smash like you did with the rest of the moves, I'm pretty sure even n00bs can do the math.

Oh... I just noticed my posts are over 900.0 XD
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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*deleted for taking too much space*

Oh don't worry about updating all at once I was just pointing out and wondering why you did it differently that's all... sorry if I added more stress
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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That edit cleared a lot of things up. Thanks Steel... But seriously wow... Shield stun is just a ***** in this game. I didn't think when one said little shield stun it meant only 1-2 or even negative frames, but ****.

Also something you might want to look at Steel:

Down Smash
Hit: 6, 21
End: 64
Shield Stun Hit 1: 6
~Shield Hit Lag: 8
ADVANTAGE: -52
Shield Stun Hit 2: 7
~Shield Hit Lag: 0
ADVANTAGE: -58
Tipper Shield Stun 1: -1
~Shield Hit Lag: 16
ADVANTAGE: -59
Tipper Shield Stun 2: -1
~Shield Hit Lag: 15
ADVANTAGE: -28

Bolded parts are where I think you might have mistyped stuff
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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Yeah can't thank you enough for how much **** you're doing right now. Get a good night's sleep you'll need it >:^)
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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Steel2nd said:
Backlash would you rather hit a shield with a tipper fsmash or an fsmash?
Click to expand...
BacklashMarth said:
I would have put "non-shield tipper fsmash tipper" but that was kind of implied
Click to expand...
Sigh imma just tell him. We do pride ourselves in not having clans that conceal information....even though the information is readily available. a page away >>
Backlash we were talking about this for the entire last page or two. Tipper fsmash on a shield puts you in a WORSE position than an untippered fsmash on a shield....

Untippered: ADVANTAGE: -32
Tipper: ADVANTAGE: -40
What's the bigger number? =\
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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Steel wtf? ....Is this for real? People have almost a second to punish a shielded smash attack? Something is seriously telling me that is wrong. Not offending you in any way but that just seems way too wrong.

I really feel as though this formula is wrong for calculating advantage:
ADVANTAGE FORMULA: SHIELDSTUN + HIT - SHIELDHITLAG - END (or IASA)

this is because I feel that your calculation for shieldstun is incorrect. In fact, they way you are calculating shieldstun in this is actually (shieldstun - shieldhitlag) which explains why shieldstun is a negative number for some of these.

Therefore your formula should look like this: SHIELDSTUN + HIT - END(or IASA) because you have already taken shieldhitlag into account. Do the math again, no matter how crappy Marth's smashes are when they hit shield, they do not result in a full second of punishment.

Edit: That or it is true >_> Also your formula proves that dtilt trapping doesn't work which it does, so are you sure you didn't overthink this?
 
Steel

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im discussing it now with EL and ankoku, i'm just going by what ankoku told me unless i misinterpreted. but i seriously doubt that
 
Steel

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alright, my thread is now safe to be looked at. everything is correct, i just need to finish up the aerials tomorrow or so.

FEAST MY BRETHREN. FEAST. GO NOW, AND SPREAD THIS KNOWLEDGE TO FURTHER THE METAGAME.
 
Steel

Steel

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Steel2nd said:
alright, my thread is now safe to be looked at. everything is correct, i just need to finish up the aerials tomorrow or so.

FEAST MY BRETHREN. FEAST. GO NOW, AND SPREAD THIS KNOWLEDGE TO FURTHER THE METAGAME.
Click to expand...
like i said >_>
 
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