Alas as a guy who mains Marth and browses the Marth forums quite a bit, I believe I've deduced a list of many frequently asked questions that occur. I'd say this is stepping dangerously close to being more of a 'Marth Guide' rather than a FAQ, but it does address many 'real points'. Any critiques or anything 'new' that pops us will hopefully be added to this. (I can see q17 being messed with a lot).
The Marth frequently ASKED questions (fAq)
There are 18(+1) questions, highlighted in big lime colouring. If these questions apply to you please read. If these answers don't help you then maybe go to the 'get an answer' topic, or ask me or someone else or something.
q0. How good is Marth? Should I use him?
Someone suggested I add this. I guess it's valid, but kind of an annoying question(s). Anyway Marth is a pretty good character, he is currently rated very highly in tournaments, and is deemed to probably be in the high tier area. His strengths and weaknesses are discussed a lot, but as a 'high tier' character, obviously the strengths outweigh said weaknesses. Marth also has good matchups with many characters, and is near even with many of the high (or higher) tier characters as well.
Should you use him? Well if the above didn't budge you; Marth isn't easy to use well. If you are inspired to play Marth and enjoy doing so, he's the right guy for you. He is a fast character with great attack range, reasonable strength and has a very popular community to potentially HELP YOU.
q1. Gender?
Marth is definitely male. You definitely do not need to make a topic about gender questions, we’ve had many. Yes, it’s a tiara. Yes he is soon to feature in a remake of his original game being released on the Nintendo DS (already released in Japan).
q2. How do I get better?
Many Marth mains would say he has a steep learning curve. Unlike MK who can beat everyone with just down-smash spam and up b to finish with every character (kinda), Marth has to be versatile for every match up. This generally revolves around the ‘Offensive approach’ and the ‘Defensive approach’.
In all honestly the better Marths just know how to play the game. People who know enough about the game as a whole will slide into a reasonably good Marth usually with much ease. These ‘types’ would only read information topics to further improve their meta-game. But as a newbie you should read them (this for example) (an index for many information threads). Know all of Marth’s move well and how they work, as EVERY move Marth has a use for something.
Find someone who is better than you. Fight them with Marth and learn to beat them. For further help you will record your matches and ask us to critique - nice idea. The difference between an idiot and a respected ‘newbie’ is how they faired in the matches they showed us (i.e. the idiots will post videos of them ******). If you’re better than someone it doesn’t give us any indication of what you’re really needing to improve in.
Watch the videos of ‘good’ Marths. Good players will post their videos too; if they’re truly good we’ll praise them and people may learn a thing or two; if they’re not we’ll flame you for being an attention *****; some may tell you good advice to help you improve.
q3. What’s all this lingo? Fair? This, that?
Because we’re lazy we use abbreviations and what have you for moves/techniques/other things. Fair for example is short for ‘Forward Air Attack’, i.e. the attack you use while in the air and pressing ‘forward’ and the attack button.
If you’re asking this you’re probably new to Smash and or Smash Boards. Many topics list these things for you. Ulevo’s Marth Guide has a nice list of most things you‘ll need to know (HERE), but eventually you’ll just understand them.
q4. How do I avoid being hated on the Marth boards?
Whoosh! Personally and perhaps objectively? Learn how to spell. Write coherent sentences and flowing paragraphs. Don’t bump really old topics without it being genuinely good information.
Don’t create/post obnoxious/selfish topics, i.e. “HEY GUYS I GOT PROOF THAT I AM A MARTH MAIN SO STOP HATING ME FOR NOT BEING A MARTH MAIN COZ I AM”.
We also don’t seem to like a new topic being created 5+ times a day about the same thing that has been answered 20 billion times. We also generally don’t like topics about specific players (especially those made about themselves) [there are exceptions].
q5. What’s the offensive approach?
Playing like a madman, kinda. Pretty much many people who played Marth in melee and play him the same way will be seen as ‘offensive’/aggressive. This will fail heavily in match-ups with many characters (MK & Snake are good examples), unless you really know your stuff. I’d say the melee->brawlers should learn their defensive approach, and so should new people. Many aggressive Marth’s I like to call insane… They do the same thing over and over and wonder why they lose.
New people would probably play offensive Marth due to his speed and great range, and his fair. They’ll run a lot, get shield grabbed a lot, and will get a huge shock when someone completely shuts them down forever when they use this ‘style’ (3 stocked, low damage, etc).
q6. So, what’s the defensive approach?
Not exactly the opposite of the ‘offensive approach’, realise this.
People new to the defensive approach will avoid conflict a lot, they will miss a lot of opportunities to punish (as in QUICK switch to offensive), and would probably NOT dash quite a bit. People will complain that your Marth is CAMPY, many horribly mean opponents will mind**** you to go back to aggressive, saying things like “Marth can’t camp, [why?] because he doesn’t have a projectile”.
Defensive works against a lot of the characters in this game. As stated above, Marth has the good stuff; that’s why being passive is quite beneficial. You’re always able to get IN THERE FAST to take an opportunity when one arises. Dashing isn’t great because you do not have all of Marth's moves available (you can jump, use specials or upsmash and dash attack), Marth’s run/walk speed is better than many character’s dash speed, it’s great to use and can have you go straight into useful smash attacks, etc.
A defensive Marth must learn how to space. The reason why aggression fails a lot is because it’s extremely difficult to space properly with this style. How do you learn to play defensively? Two steps backward, one step forward, two steps back. Use specific moves like the dtilt, keep protected with the range of certain moves (ftilt for short hoppers, for example), dancing blade to punish EVERYTHING, etc.
q7. What mistakes do I look out for?
Forward smash spamming. For every ‘new’ aggressive Marth is a new fsmash spammer. It’s great when it hits, you’re ****ed when it does not. Marth players have issues with spacing. The distance between you and your opponent should generally always be at the least Marth’s tipper range, not any closer. And if your opponent has competitive or better range being outside their range.
Not using Dancing Blade enough (or too much). Not using Dolphin Slash enough (and then reading this and using it too much stupidly). Using COUNTER too much. Not a great knowledge of all of Marth’s moves. Spamming any particular move completely. Not punishing when available. Not spacing. Relying too much on a ground game or air game or offstage game, instead of them being in near-mutual balance.
q8. KEN COMBO!!!!?:E!fluff;
No. The Brawl engine is in such a state that the Ken Combo is not HARD to pull off, it’s just nearly impossible against anyone with a brain. The combo will work on CPUs. The combo will not work on people who AIR DODGE. Air dodging will guarantee they probably won’t even be hit after the first fair, let alone the dair spike.
Also, the 'creator' of the Ken Combo, Ken himself is/was a contestant on Survivor 08. We know.
q9. Spacing? Range? Speed?
Spacing is keeping you at a distance that is safe, while still able to utilise your range and speed to attack when possible. The best ‘spacers’ are those who are always at tipper range of their attacks, while remaining in the safe zone.
Nearly all of Marth's moves have good range and reasonable speed. The specifics are HERE (Ulevo's topic of Marth's range in context of Meta Knight)
Shield Breaker > Forward Smash > f-tilt >= dtilt > Down Smash > Jab > Dancing Blade > Up Smash.
In the air bair > fair > nair.
Speed wise Jab, Dancing Blade and Fair are Marth’s fastest starting moves (4 frames).
q10. I hear Dolphin Slash is the ST00F, but why?
Dolphin Slash is your recovery move. As a recovery it is pretty bland. What makes Dolphin Slash good is that it makes you invincible for ‘5 frames’ (the time it takes for the move to come out), there is nil hit stun (ON YOU), and if you hit your opponent as it starts it has good knock-back capabilities.
It’s best utilised as an out-of-shield attack. When an opponent attacks you with a many hit move (MK’s tornado, ROB’s downsmash) and you are shielding you can use the dolphin slash to punish and guarantee a hit. If you’re the best person in the universe dolphin slash > spot dodge & perfect shield. (But is great to use when you dodge an attack using these things)
If you’re in any ‘combo’ (Snake’s n-air) or chain grab (Falco‘s for example), try the dolphin slash. If used properly and nicely, while recovering it can stage spike the opponent to their deaths.
Why shouldn’t you spam it? Because if you miss you’re stuck in the air moving downwards (ALWAYS FAST FALL) with nothing to do, and get a lot of stun-time when you land on the ground. In the case of chain grabs/combos if the opponent expects it and just ‘stops’ and you use it, they can do even worse things to you. Also as it’s a kill move, if you overuse it will become harder to have it kill an opponent.
q11. Tap Jump ON or OFF?
On. The benefits of OFF are only the easiness of doing up attacks (usmash/utilt) without jumping. Try harder to avoid it, I never go ‘crap’ I just randomly jumped, because IT DOESN’T HAPPEN. Your hand coordination will learn to not JUMP. Deal with it.
But WHY have it on then? Well in the previous question I talked about dolphin slash as an out of shield attack. If you have tap jump off you have to LOWER YOUR SHIELD (from a jump or letting go of the button) TO ACTUALLY DO THE DOLPHIN SLASH, MAKING THE INVINCIBILITY FRAMES USELESS. With tap jump on, while holding the shield, just aim the joystick up and press b, you’ll buffer straight into it, never literally being ‘hittable‘. BRILLIANT. Tap jump also has effects on your shield breaker (q16).
If you're really good with your hands (either changing your control config or doing perhaps? uncomfortable things) (i.e. Tap Jump OFF with awesomeness) here's a topic with information on how to do it: HERE!
q12. Ground game? Air Game? Edge Game?
Ground game is all the moves you can do on the ground and how you use them. Marth’s G-Game is all about racking up damage and keeping your safety (with Dancing Blade and Dtilt [for example], respectively), with the occasional smash and utilt. The up smash and utilt will move the game into the air, while other smashes may send you to the edge game, downsmash sends players up unless they DI downwards. Many players ignore the other ‘G-Game’ known as Grab Game; while Marth has weak throws/grabs he can do many great things with them (q14).
Air game is the sky, augmented through a jump/short hop or if someone knocked you up there. Marth’s A-Game (GET IT!?) is pretty good, and nearly all his aerials have great purpose. If you’re knocked up in the air however you’re better off not staying up there as Marth has little he can do to opponents below him. Other than ‘basics’ about his moves (practice and reading is all you need), his uair is great for juggling, and top A-Game fully utilises utilts to uair related things, his uair can kill, and it’s fantastic for stopping your opponent getting back to the ground.
Edge Game is all about once you or your opponent is off the edge. E-Game should be called F-Game (GET IT!?), as edge game is all about gimping, and Marth isn’t the most spectacular guy against many of his opponents due to his lacklustre recovery. Marth can gimp though, many characters coming back towards the edge can be hit straight back (with any of your aerials, and dair being a hard to hit spike), it takes practice, but as long as you’re not against Metaknight attempting to gimp is fine and dandy. Getting back up can be problematic though, as you CAN BE GIMPED. Work on stuttering your movement with the first strike of dancing blade, and attempting to stage spike with the dolphin slash.
q13. How do I beat a certain character?
The Marth boards at a point in time were having weekly match up discussion threads. The link of the index is HERE. Since this was originally created the match up list has been finished, covering all characters.
q14. How do I improve my/What is featured in the Grab-Game?
There’s many topics on this, but whatever. I thought I’d separate it as there are many things with the G[rab]-Game, so clogging up the ’combo/technique’ question is eh eh. Marth’s dash grab is crap, never dash grab. While ‘running’ you can l cancel and then do a shield grab to use Marth’s BRILLIANT standing grab range. (Marth’s standing grab range is 3rd best non tether grab; after Dedede and Charizard, respectively). Marth having the 3rd best stand-grab range allows him a lot of prowess when close to his opponents, and can catch bad-spacers off guard continually.
Up Throw - Up throw allows you to move into your A-Game. At low percents you can up tilt/smash or go straight into uair. At higher percentages it will send opponents very high, and is very underused but in my eyes pretty special. It can kill characters like Metaknight at 170% or so. Ness/Lucas at similar percents too.
Back throw - At this time there is no real use for it. Use the down throw instead.
Down throw - It’s animation and ‘hit’ is similar to back throw. At low percentages you can ‘chain grab’ some characters (0-15% ish [Marth and the spacies]), and at other percents will guarantee you a hit with some attacks. Down throw to Fsmash tipper is REAL (0-4%, bad DI = higher percents). AND WE KNOW ABOUT IT. Other attacks work from a down throw too, so realise the potential.
Forward throw - It’s pretty nice. Forward throw can also chain at low percents [mostly up to] two times. Forward throw can also chain/combo into many attacks, such as forward smash. Fthrow to fsmash usually is a tipper’d one if the grab is below 4%.
At low percents near the edge Forward throw chains can combo into a d-air spike against the SPACES (Fox, Falco & Wolf [in order of ease]) (maybe others), and they will not likely be able to recover (or air dodge the dair).
Grab Release - oh ****. Grab release is letting your opponent get free from your grab without throwing them. Read below.
q15. HOLY MOLY, GRAB RELEASE THIS THAT HOW?
As I just ‘wrote’ above, grab release is letting your opponent go free after you grab them. There are two types of grab releases, ground ones (all heavy characters or you ‘kneed’ them at the time before release) and air ones (lighter-ish characters who were not hit by a jab shortly before being released).
Ness/Lucas chain grab - Ness and Lucas can be chain grabbed at any percent using the ground release until they’re off the edge or you hit them with something (Grab a Ness/Lucas, HOLD shield, keep pressing attack, DI slightly forward). The higher the damage they’re on the better, as they can’t wiggle out until you’ve done many ‘hits’.
Squirtle can also be chain grabbed using the air release. After an air release; dash to shield grab. Due to Squirtle's extended lag one can spike them once the edge is reached.
Other chain grab - Other characters after either a ground or air release can be grabbed again. However this is not a combo and every other character can just roll out, DI out, attack or dodge. It’s good for unsuspecting foes, mind game type stuff.
Ground Release Stuff - MANY characters after a ground release will ‘lag’ long enough for you to HIT THEM WITH AN ATTACK. WE KNOW. Yet many are still able to roll out. Heavy characters will generally force you to roll away as they gain a slight advantage.
Air Release Stuff - After an Air Release many characters can be hit again. After a foxtrot (dash) one can jump and fair many opponents during their lag time (usually tipper’d fair), after the foxtrot certain characters can be DANCING BLADE’d (upwards style dancing blade, all hits hitting, of course) instead of jumping, but it is not as reliable. Hell, after an air release you can do many things, the above are just suggestions that are effective/work.
q16. ZOMG FOUND SOMETHING UBER COOL, I’LL CALL IT THE SHAYA COMBO! OR THE SHAYA TECHNIQUE!
The shaya combo exists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykRpZQBr2EE
JOKING. No. Well, maybe. Here’s a list of ‘general discoveries’ that get talked about a lot [grab/throw related are above], usually when a newbie makes 2-3 topics about it. Also realise that just because a combo ‘works’ on a CPU, and even in training mode states it’s a combo, it won’t likely be too usable in the real world, and we probably know about it. Deterioration doesn’t exist in training mode, and makes a huge impact in real matches.
Footstool spike - In brawl if you press jump while on someone’s head you’ll do a footstool jump. If timed correctly you can instantly do a d-air that will spike your opponent. If you do it over the edge they will most likely die. It takes practice and good timing, and is mostly situational.
Dtilt lock - Many characters have a move that locks the opponent. Marth’s dtilt is one of them. If you dtilt someone against a wall, you will most likely be able to dtilt them again and again. They will not be able to do anything until higher percentages. Most characters will not be able to escape before an up-smash will kill them. Levels with walls include: Corneria and many times Delfino Plaza.
Dancing Blade ‘Rise’ - The first strike of the dancing blade can give you a boost in height if timed correctly. At the apex of your jump if you use the first strike of the dancing blade you’ll see the difference. Great for recovering as edge hoggers will devastate you often otherwise.
Upsmash Spike - Marth’s up smash has a weird hit-box that protrudes from his feet. On some stages if you use an Upsmash with your foot hanging just over the edge and an opponent is there, they’ll be pushed straight into the ceiling of the stage’s floor and die. It doesn’t work on every character, and only on certain stages. The reason this works is if you use an up smash normally and hit the opponent on the ground you’ll notice they are pushed up to your blade at a fast speed (it counts as two hits); the 1st hit sends them up to the blade, the second sends them further. As a ceiling is in the way of them reaching your blade they just get knocked down.
Shieldbreaker recovery - Shieldbreaker can be used for recovering while in the air. It will boost your momentum slightly. If you fully charge it you will be pushed very fast in the ‘faced’ direction. It will send you down quite a bit as well and hence not too reliable and very punishable by an opponent. If you land on solid ground depending on TAP JUMP you’ll slide slightly (on) or stop completely (off).
Dolphin Slash Lag - This is similar to a bug, and is not beneficial to you (well knowing it is). If you dolphin slash to grab the edge and then use a jump to land back on the stage your normal dolphin slash lag will remain. TO AVOID THIS YOU NEED TO DO AN ATTACK [like fair/nair] to NEGATE THE LANDING LAG
Double Dolphin Slash - This is also a bug that is generally rare and because of this not exactly useful. While Marth recovers using his DS he may 'skip' grabbing the edge and lose his vunerability. If you're expecting it you can use attacks. However if you weren't expecting it you could fall to your death. This seems to work most often on Battle Field. The character WOLF has this happen to him a lot more often than Marth does.
Anything else? Vyse's AT Topic may help: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187873 (it may just be a general AT that has already been discovered).
q17. Who plays the best Marth?
Well, me, obviously.
Asking this question will allow you to get a stream of posts saying the same thing. People may make the presumption that Ken and Mew2King are the best Marth users; maybe in melee, leave it at that. I don’t need to say much more about those two, besides the fact they are great smash players in general. At the time of writing the community thinks highly of several Marth players. ’Neo’ and ‘Roy R’ in particular are considered as such, and several videos featuring them are on youtube (Neo having many recent ones). Who knows who the best will be as the game progresses though. AND NO, I have no idea who is the best out of the ‘revered Marths’ or if any of them have even fought eachother. Sorry.
q18. How do I do 'the impossible' with Marth?
- Smash Boosting: Doesn't exist. Doesn't work. No. (Smash Boosting is dash attack to up smash).
- Cancelling attacks: Only your Forward-Air, Neutral-Air and Up-air can cancel. Nothing else. No.
The Marth frequently ASKED questions (fAq)
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q0. How good is Marth? Should I use him?
Someone suggested I add this. I guess it's valid, but kind of an annoying question(s). Anyway Marth is a pretty good character, he is currently rated very highly in tournaments, and is deemed to probably be in the high tier area. His strengths and weaknesses are discussed a lot, but as a 'high tier' character, obviously the strengths outweigh said weaknesses. Marth also has good matchups with many characters, and is near even with many of the high (or higher) tier characters as well.
Should you use him? Well if the above didn't budge you; Marth isn't easy to use well. If you are inspired to play Marth and enjoy doing so, he's the right guy for you. He is a fast character with great attack range, reasonable strength and has a very popular community to potentially HELP YOU.
q1. Gender?
Marth is definitely male. You definitely do not need to make a topic about gender questions, we’ve had many. Yes, it’s a tiara. Yes he is soon to feature in a remake of his original game being released on the Nintendo DS (already released in Japan).
q2. How do I get better?
Many Marth mains would say he has a steep learning curve. Unlike MK who can beat everyone with just down-smash spam and up b to finish with every character (kinda), Marth has to be versatile for every match up. This generally revolves around the ‘Offensive approach’ and the ‘Defensive approach’.
In all honestly the better Marths just know how to play the game. People who know enough about the game as a whole will slide into a reasonably good Marth usually with much ease. These ‘types’ would only read information topics to further improve their meta-game. But as a newbie you should read them (this for example) (an index for many information threads). Know all of Marth’s move well and how they work, as EVERY move Marth has a use for something.
Find someone who is better than you. Fight them with Marth and learn to beat them. For further help you will record your matches and ask us to critique - nice idea. The difference between an idiot and a respected ‘newbie’ is how they faired in the matches they showed us (i.e. the idiots will post videos of them ******). If you’re better than someone it doesn’t give us any indication of what you’re really needing to improve in.
Watch the videos of ‘good’ Marths. Good players will post their videos too; if they’re truly good we’ll praise them and people may learn a thing or two; if they’re not we’ll flame you for being an attention *****; some may tell you good advice to help you improve.
q3. What’s all this lingo? Fair? This, that?
Because we’re lazy we use abbreviations and what have you for moves/techniques/other things. Fair for example is short for ‘Forward Air Attack’, i.e. the attack you use while in the air and pressing ‘forward’ and the attack button.
If you’re asking this you’re probably new to Smash and or Smash Boards. Many topics list these things for you. Ulevo’s Marth Guide has a nice list of most things you‘ll need to know (HERE), but eventually you’ll just understand them.
q4. How do I avoid being hated on the Marth boards?
Whoosh! Personally and perhaps objectively? Learn how to spell. Write coherent sentences and flowing paragraphs. Don’t bump really old topics without it being genuinely good information.
Don’t create/post obnoxious/selfish topics, i.e. “HEY GUYS I GOT PROOF THAT I AM A MARTH MAIN SO STOP HATING ME FOR NOT BEING A MARTH MAIN COZ I AM”.
We also don’t seem to like a new topic being created 5+ times a day about the same thing that has been answered 20 billion times. We also generally don’t like topics about specific players (especially those made about themselves) [there are exceptions].
q5. What’s the offensive approach?
Playing like a madman, kinda. Pretty much many people who played Marth in melee and play him the same way will be seen as ‘offensive’/aggressive. This will fail heavily in match-ups with many characters (MK & Snake are good examples), unless you really know your stuff. I’d say the melee->brawlers should learn their defensive approach, and so should new people. Many aggressive Marth’s I like to call insane… They do the same thing over and over and wonder why they lose.
New people would probably play offensive Marth due to his speed and great range, and his fair. They’ll run a lot, get shield grabbed a lot, and will get a huge shock when someone completely shuts them down forever when they use this ‘style’ (3 stocked, low damage, etc).
q6. So, what’s the defensive approach?
Not exactly the opposite of the ‘offensive approach’, realise this.
People new to the defensive approach will avoid conflict a lot, they will miss a lot of opportunities to punish (as in QUICK switch to offensive), and would probably NOT dash quite a bit. People will complain that your Marth is CAMPY, many horribly mean opponents will mind**** you to go back to aggressive, saying things like “Marth can’t camp, [why?] because he doesn’t have a projectile”.
Defensive works against a lot of the characters in this game. As stated above, Marth has the good stuff; that’s why being passive is quite beneficial. You’re always able to get IN THERE FAST to take an opportunity when one arises. Dashing isn’t great because you do not have all of Marth's moves available (you can jump, use specials or upsmash and dash attack), Marth’s run/walk speed is better than many character’s dash speed, it’s great to use and can have you go straight into useful smash attacks, etc.
A defensive Marth must learn how to space. The reason why aggression fails a lot is because it’s extremely difficult to space properly with this style. How do you learn to play defensively? Two steps backward, one step forward, two steps back. Use specific moves like the dtilt, keep protected with the range of certain moves (ftilt for short hoppers, for example), dancing blade to punish EVERYTHING, etc.
q7. What mistakes do I look out for?
Forward smash spamming. For every ‘new’ aggressive Marth is a new fsmash spammer. It’s great when it hits, you’re ****ed when it does not. Marth players have issues with spacing. The distance between you and your opponent should generally always be at the least Marth’s tipper range, not any closer. And if your opponent has competitive or better range being outside their range.
Not using Dancing Blade enough (or too much). Not using Dolphin Slash enough (and then reading this and using it too much stupidly). Using COUNTER too much. Not a great knowledge of all of Marth’s moves. Spamming any particular move completely. Not punishing when available. Not spacing. Relying too much on a ground game or air game or offstage game, instead of them being in near-mutual balance.
q8. KEN COMBO!!!!?:E!fluff;
No. The Brawl engine is in such a state that the Ken Combo is not HARD to pull off, it’s just nearly impossible against anyone with a brain. The combo will work on CPUs. The combo will not work on people who AIR DODGE. Air dodging will guarantee they probably won’t even be hit after the first fair, let alone the dair spike.
Also, the 'creator' of the Ken Combo, Ken himself is/was a contestant on Survivor 08. We know.
q9. Spacing? Range? Speed?
Spacing is keeping you at a distance that is safe, while still able to utilise your range and speed to attack when possible. The best ‘spacers’ are those who are always at tipper range of their attacks, while remaining in the safe zone.
Nearly all of Marth's moves have good range and reasonable speed. The specifics are HERE (Ulevo's topic of Marth's range in context of Meta Knight)
Shield Breaker > Forward Smash > f-tilt >= dtilt > Down Smash > Jab > Dancing Blade > Up Smash.
In the air bair > fair > nair.
Speed wise Jab, Dancing Blade and Fair are Marth’s fastest starting moves (4 frames).
q10. I hear Dolphin Slash is the ST00F, but why?
Dolphin Slash is your recovery move. As a recovery it is pretty bland. What makes Dolphin Slash good is that it makes you invincible for ‘5 frames’ (the time it takes for the move to come out), there is nil hit stun (ON YOU), and if you hit your opponent as it starts it has good knock-back capabilities.
It’s best utilised as an out-of-shield attack. When an opponent attacks you with a many hit move (MK’s tornado, ROB’s downsmash) and you are shielding you can use the dolphin slash to punish and guarantee a hit. If you’re the best person in the universe dolphin slash > spot dodge & perfect shield. (But is great to use when you dodge an attack using these things)
If you’re in any ‘combo’ (Snake’s n-air) or chain grab (Falco‘s for example), try the dolphin slash. If used properly and nicely, while recovering it can stage spike the opponent to their deaths.
Why shouldn’t you spam it? Because if you miss you’re stuck in the air moving downwards (ALWAYS FAST FALL) with nothing to do, and get a lot of stun-time when you land on the ground. In the case of chain grabs/combos if the opponent expects it and just ‘stops’ and you use it, they can do even worse things to you. Also as it’s a kill move, if you overuse it will become harder to have it kill an opponent.
q11. Tap Jump ON or OFF?
On. The benefits of OFF are only the easiness of doing up attacks (usmash/utilt) without jumping. Try harder to avoid it, I never go ‘crap’ I just randomly jumped, because IT DOESN’T HAPPEN. Your hand coordination will learn to not JUMP. Deal with it.
But WHY have it on then? Well in the previous question I talked about dolphin slash as an out of shield attack. If you have tap jump off you have to LOWER YOUR SHIELD (from a jump or letting go of the button) TO ACTUALLY DO THE DOLPHIN SLASH, MAKING THE INVINCIBILITY FRAMES USELESS. With tap jump on, while holding the shield, just aim the joystick up and press b, you’ll buffer straight into it, never literally being ‘hittable‘. BRILLIANT. Tap jump also has effects on your shield breaker (q16).
If you're really good with your hands (either changing your control config or doing perhaps? uncomfortable things) (i.e. Tap Jump OFF with awesomeness) here's a topic with information on how to do it: HERE!
q12. Ground game? Air Game? Edge Game?
Ground game is all the moves you can do on the ground and how you use them. Marth’s G-Game is all about racking up damage and keeping your safety (with Dancing Blade and Dtilt [for example], respectively), with the occasional smash and utilt. The up smash and utilt will move the game into the air, while other smashes may send you to the edge game, downsmash sends players up unless they DI downwards. Many players ignore the other ‘G-Game’ known as Grab Game; while Marth has weak throws/grabs he can do many great things with them (q14).
Air game is the sky, augmented through a jump/short hop or if someone knocked you up there. Marth’s A-Game (GET IT!?) is pretty good, and nearly all his aerials have great purpose. If you’re knocked up in the air however you’re better off not staying up there as Marth has little he can do to opponents below him. Other than ‘basics’ about his moves (practice and reading is all you need), his uair is great for juggling, and top A-Game fully utilises utilts to uair related things, his uair can kill, and it’s fantastic for stopping your opponent getting back to the ground.
Edge Game is all about once you or your opponent is off the edge. E-Game should be called F-Game (GET IT!?), as edge game is all about gimping, and Marth isn’t the most spectacular guy against many of his opponents due to his lacklustre recovery. Marth can gimp though, many characters coming back towards the edge can be hit straight back (with any of your aerials, and dair being a hard to hit spike), it takes practice, but as long as you’re not against Metaknight attempting to gimp is fine and dandy. Getting back up can be problematic though, as you CAN BE GIMPED. Work on stuttering your movement with the first strike of dancing blade, and attempting to stage spike with the dolphin slash.
q13. How do I beat a certain character?
The Marth boards at a point in time were having weekly match up discussion threads. The link of the index is HERE. Since this was originally created the match up list has been finished, covering all characters.
q14. How do I improve my/What is featured in the Grab-Game?
There’s many topics on this, but whatever. I thought I’d separate it as there are many things with the G[rab]-Game, so clogging up the ’combo/technique’ question is eh eh. Marth’s dash grab is crap, never dash grab. While ‘running’ you can l cancel and then do a shield grab to use Marth’s BRILLIANT standing grab range. (Marth’s standing grab range is 3rd best non tether grab; after Dedede and Charizard, respectively). Marth having the 3rd best stand-grab range allows him a lot of prowess when close to his opponents, and can catch bad-spacers off guard continually.
Up Throw - Up throw allows you to move into your A-Game. At low percents you can up tilt/smash or go straight into uair. At higher percentages it will send opponents very high, and is very underused but in my eyes pretty special. It can kill characters like Metaknight at 170% or so. Ness/Lucas at similar percents too.
Back throw - At this time there is no real use for it. Use the down throw instead.
Down throw - It’s animation and ‘hit’ is similar to back throw. At low percentages you can ‘chain grab’ some characters (0-15% ish [Marth and the spacies]), and at other percents will guarantee you a hit with some attacks. Down throw to Fsmash tipper is REAL (0-4%, bad DI = higher percents). AND WE KNOW ABOUT IT. Other attacks work from a down throw too, so realise the potential.
Forward throw - It’s pretty nice. Forward throw can also chain at low percents [mostly up to] two times. Forward throw can also chain/combo into many attacks, such as forward smash. Fthrow to fsmash usually is a tipper’d one if the grab is below 4%.
At low percents near the edge Forward throw chains can combo into a d-air spike against the SPACES (Fox, Falco & Wolf [in order of ease]) (maybe others), and they will not likely be able to recover (or air dodge the dair).
Grab Release - oh ****. Grab release is letting your opponent get free from your grab without throwing them. Read below.
q15. HOLY MOLY, GRAB RELEASE THIS THAT HOW?
As I just ‘wrote’ above, grab release is letting your opponent go free after you grab them. There are two types of grab releases, ground ones (all heavy characters or you ‘kneed’ them at the time before release) and air ones (lighter-ish characters who were not hit by a jab shortly before being released).
Ness/Lucas chain grab - Ness and Lucas can be chain grabbed at any percent using the ground release until they’re off the edge or you hit them with something (Grab a Ness/Lucas, HOLD shield, keep pressing attack, DI slightly forward). The higher the damage they’re on the better, as they can’t wiggle out until you’ve done many ‘hits’.
Squirtle can also be chain grabbed using the air release. After an air release; dash to shield grab. Due to Squirtle's extended lag one can spike them once the edge is reached.
Other chain grab - Other characters after either a ground or air release can be grabbed again. However this is not a combo and every other character can just roll out, DI out, attack or dodge. It’s good for unsuspecting foes, mind game type stuff.
Ground Release Stuff - MANY characters after a ground release will ‘lag’ long enough for you to HIT THEM WITH AN ATTACK. WE KNOW. Yet many are still able to roll out. Heavy characters will generally force you to roll away as they gain a slight advantage.
Air Release Stuff - After an Air Release many characters can be hit again. After a foxtrot (dash) one can jump and fair many opponents during their lag time (usually tipper’d fair), after the foxtrot certain characters can be DANCING BLADE’d (upwards style dancing blade, all hits hitting, of course) instead of jumping, but it is not as reliable. Hell, after an air release you can do many things, the above are just suggestions that are effective/work.
q16. ZOMG FOUND SOMETHING UBER COOL, I’LL CALL IT THE SHAYA COMBO! OR THE SHAYA TECHNIQUE!
The shaya combo exists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykRpZQBr2EE
JOKING. No. Well, maybe. Here’s a list of ‘general discoveries’ that get talked about a lot [grab/throw related are above], usually when a newbie makes 2-3 topics about it. Also realise that just because a combo ‘works’ on a CPU, and even in training mode states it’s a combo, it won’t likely be too usable in the real world, and we probably know about it. Deterioration doesn’t exist in training mode, and makes a huge impact in real matches.
Footstool spike - In brawl if you press jump while on someone’s head you’ll do a footstool jump. If timed correctly you can instantly do a d-air that will spike your opponent. If you do it over the edge they will most likely die. It takes practice and good timing, and is mostly situational.
Dtilt lock - Many characters have a move that locks the opponent. Marth’s dtilt is one of them. If you dtilt someone against a wall, you will most likely be able to dtilt them again and again. They will not be able to do anything until higher percentages. Most characters will not be able to escape before an up-smash will kill them. Levels with walls include: Corneria and many times Delfino Plaza.
Dancing Blade ‘Rise’ - The first strike of the dancing blade can give you a boost in height if timed correctly. At the apex of your jump if you use the first strike of the dancing blade you’ll see the difference. Great for recovering as edge hoggers will devastate you often otherwise.
Upsmash Spike - Marth’s up smash has a weird hit-box that protrudes from his feet. On some stages if you use an Upsmash with your foot hanging just over the edge and an opponent is there, they’ll be pushed straight into the ceiling of the stage’s floor and die. It doesn’t work on every character, and only on certain stages. The reason this works is if you use an up smash normally and hit the opponent on the ground you’ll notice they are pushed up to your blade at a fast speed (it counts as two hits); the 1st hit sends them up to the blade, the second sends them further. As a ceiling is in the way of them reaching your blade they just get knocked down.
Shieldbreaker recovery - Shieldbreaker can be used for recovering while in the air. It will boost your momentum slightly. If you fully charge it you will be pushed very fast in the ‘faced’ direction. It will send you down quite a bit as well and hence not too reliable and very punishable by an opponent. If you land on solid ground depending on TAP JUMP you’ll slide slightly (on) or stop completely (off).
Dolphin Slash Lag - This is similar to a bug, and is not beneficial to you (well knowing it is). If you dolphin slash to grab the edge and then use a jump to land back on the stage your normal dolphin slash lag will remain. TO AVOID THIS YOU NEED TO DO AN ATTACK [like fair/nair] to NEGATE THE LANDING LAG
Double Dolphin Slash - This is also a bug that is generally rare and because of this not exactly useful. While Marth recovers using his DS he may 'skip' grabbing the edge and lose his vunerability. If you're expecting it you can use attacks. However if you weren't expecting it you could fall to your death. This seems to work most often on Battle Field. The character WOLF has this happen to him a lot more often than Marth does.
Anything else? Vyse's AT Topic may help: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187873 (it may just be a general AT that has already been discovered).
q17. Who plays the best Marth?
Well, me, obviously.
Asking this question will allow you to get a stream of posts saying the same thing. People may make the presumption that Ken and Mew2King are the best Marth users; maybe in melee, leave it at that. I don’t need to say much more about those two, besides the fact they are great smash players in general. At the time of writing the community thinks highly of several Marth players. ’Neo’ and ‘Roy R’ in particular are considered as such, and several videos featuring them are on youtube (Neo having many recent ones). Who knows who the best will be as the game progresses though. AND NO, I have no idea who is the best out of the ‘revered Marths’ or if any of them have even fought eachother. Sorry.
q18. How do I do 'the impossible' with Marth?
- Smash Boosting: Doesn't exist. Doesn't work. No. (Smash Boosting is dash attack to up smash).
- Cancelling attacks: Only your Forward-Air, Neutral-Air and Up-air can cancel. Nothing else. No.
