Fogo
Smash Shinigami
ohhhhh, why do we call her that??
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Mario's Matchups! Updated May 15, 2007! Only missing Zelda!
- Thread starter Eggz
- Start date
Zro
Smash Ace
first off quit life... lol and secondly thats her name in japanese
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
oh, shouldve whipped out my handy japenese translation book.
NES n00b
Smash Master
My thoughts on the Zelda matchup (I only fought KOKingpin and JCPWN so yeah. . . not that much experience). The toe is not some magical shield that keeps Mario from getting to Zelda. It is sort of like trying to approach Ganon except easier since Zelda has to sweetspot the move. Spacing is a good part of this matchup since toes hurts alot and you will die pretty easily. Mario can combo her ok but it is not that great of a combo game (kinda like comboing Samus but slightly easier). As usual, grabs are the best combo starters and not as hard to pull of as one would think once you are in her space.
Zelda is pretty easy to kill due to her light weight and (IMO) pretty bad recovery. Sure she has some distance and is invisble/invincible while teleporting, but she has a lot of lag from the start of it and at the landing part. If she is near the stage, just bair or nair and if far away (she should be alot of the time due to her weight XD), there are several strategies to edgeguarding her. Since she go only teleport in an angle, you can see if she will be able to get to the ledge or not. If so, grab the ledge and wait for her to teleport to the stage and hit her off again. Rinse and repeat. It's even easier when she can't teleport to the edge. lol A good trick to use against Zelda is when she is using throw fairs and bairs to make it hard to approach, you can fsmash her leg and KO her at fairly low percents.
Mario has a good advantage over Zelda IMO:
+Zelda is light, thus easy to KO
+Pretty easy edgeguard game
+Decent comboing due to no good break out moves
+She can't edgeguard you that well
+She can't approach that well
+She is a pretty crappy character to begin with her small shield and other low tier problems
-Fair and Bair outranges alot of what you have so can be tough to approach
-She can KO you fairly well
-She outranges you in general
The list makes it sound like it is bad **** but those bair and fairs along with other smart Zelda playing don't make it that bad of a matchup.
Can I get some advice about Fox? If he spaces well and has some technical ability, it seems way too hard of a match. His approaches > than yours and he has too many things that makes it hard to keep up with him. Should I just try to wait for something that can be punished or is there some approaches that I can mix up that are effective?
Edit: Thought it over and say that Mario beats Zelda pretty well. lol
Zelda is pretty easy to kill due to her light weight and (IMO) pretty bad recovery. Sure she has some distance and is invisble/invincible while teleporting, but she has a lot of lag from the start of it and at the landing part. If she is near the stage, just bair or nair and if far away (she should be alot of the time due to her weight XD), there are several strategies to edgeguarding her. Since she go only teleport in an angle, you can see if she will be able to get to the ledge or not. If so, grab the ledge and wait for her to teleport to the stage and hit her off again. Rinse and repeat. It's even easier when she can't teleport to the edge. lol A good trick to use against Zelda is when she is using throw fairs and bairs to make it hard to approach, you can fsmash her leg and KO her at fairly low percents.
Mario has a good advantage over Zelda IMO:
+Zelda is light, thus easy to KO
+Pretty easy edgeguard game
+Decent comboing due to no good break out moves
+She can't edgeguard you that well
+She can't approach that well
+She is a pretty crappy character to begin with her small shield and other low tier problems
-Fair and Bair outranges alot of what you have so can be tough to approach
-She can KO you fairly well
-She outranges you in general
The list makes it sound like it is bad **** but those bair and fairs along with other smart Zelda playing don't make it that bad of a matchup.
Can I get some advice about Fox? If he spaces well and has some technical ability, it seems way too hard of a match. His approaches > than yours and he has too many things that makes it hard to keep up with him. Should I just try to wait for something that can be punished or is there some approaches that I can mix up that are effective?
Edit: Thought it over and say that Mario beats Zelda pretty well. lol
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
yeah that's good I'd like to add that Zelda has an incredibly bad grab range...because it is so bad...
also for fox you could wait for a mistake that usually works also if they go for the Uthrow->Uair you can just Nair after the Uthrow so that might help a little if you didn't already know that
also for fox you could wait for a mistake that usually works also if they go for the Uthrow->Uair you can just Nair after the Uthrow so that might help a little if you didn't already know that
Zackular
Smash Cadet
After a long break consisting of I don't even know what from SmashBoards, I come back to a Zelda matchup? Wonderful! Kudos to you, NES n00b.
And to FaceFaceMcFace, thank you for that Sheik advice you gave me oh-so-long ago, as well as the compliment to my post intelligence and name. I don't know exactly why I'm thanking you now, but I figure it is a great gesture of kindness from you and it should only be expected from me in return.
I'll be trying to drop by the Mario forums more now, since Melee days are numbered.
And to FaceFaceMcFace, thank you for that Sheik advice you gave me oh-so-long ago, as well as the compliment to my post intelligence and name. I don't know exactly why I'm thanking you now, but I figure it is a great gesture of kindness from you and it should only be expected from me in return.
I'll be trying to drop by the Mario forums more now, since Melee days are numbered.
Super Mari0
Smash Journeyman
Eggz you forgot to mention that most of Jiggs attacks have a MUCH HIGHER priority
Im writin this post after bein stomped but that ****ed up Forward B , Forward Smash, Bair and Nair >_>
Im writin this post after bein stomped but that ****ed up Forward B , Forward Smash, Bair and Nair >_>
boss8
Smash Hero
u gotta give mario credit all of his moves r the most basic of all characters.........and he is even on all his stats....not to light not to heavy Di ing makes it a breeze.....yea mario/doctor mario are amazing...no specific counters!!! they have no specific counters....besides marth and shiek but then again they can be comboed the hell out of n e ways.......hahahahaha mario is amazing.......did u check the team battles mariownage on FD hahahahahahahaha.
Personally, I don't see Zelda as much of a threat, but that's just me. Also, has Eggz discussed the ways to deal with an experienced Jigglypuff? I had to switch chars at last tourney cuz it's impossible to smash.
boss8
Smash Hero
me..eggz...and greenmario have brought mario to the next level of play.....wooT!!!!
MARIOWNAGE
Smash Lord
who the **** is boss8? lol you bring mario to the next level of play? you just said mario has no counters >_> i'm pretty sure you didn't bring mario anywhere. just sayin
I have to disagree on the "no counters" part of this. I think it's nearly impossible to get inside of a talented Marth. Yes, Boss, you did beat CKs Marth, but if he were played better (ChaosKnight still played really well though) it would be nearly impossible to attack him. I am speaking from my last tourney experience and I'm just tryin to set the record straight.
limitbreak
Smash Ace
Does anyone have good advice/videos for sheik matchups. She is just the biggest pain to beat. I just wanna smash her face in sometimes. Marth is just as annoying as well.
boss8
Smash Hero
calm down im not braggin and hey i wouldn't mind fighting the shogun is anyone going to viva la catylism if so i will fight any mario's there....the only rreason im saying im good is cause i can back it up...anyone;s opinion is just an opinion but let the facts state for therselves........geez i can never have a little fun.....no disrespect to anyone...
boss8
Smash Hero
going to cat...if so MM??? sry for double post...
Coin Chaser
Smash Journeyman
i think that when ur mario, its all about how the opponent plays and how u need to adjust to his/her style. mario doesnt have a perfect approach game like falco so if ur more specific on where the sheik usually gets u i can help u
the sheik i play with knows how to b really gay against mario.....ived played him for 2 years and he knows how poorly mario has little priorty....so i get the spam of f-tilts.....the trick to this match up i think is to grab b4 getting grabbed.....each opponennt can combo the other very well....its just 100x easier for the sheik...just get good at chain grabbing (dthrow) and i usually dont get into utilts to uair bc i do think sheik can get out of that and punish u....if i get one uair in i can get like 4-5 but i find it very rare....i usually end my chaingrabbing in fsmashes when they DI.....it can b a sure kill at certain pecentages......also crouch cancel a lot bc ur prob going to get crouch canceled back
same with marth, i find i need to dash dance a lot and keep him on his toes then after i faked him out i come in with a flying nair.....wd b-air or wd dsmash....i feel wding is very important in this match up.....be more specific with him and ill help u out there as well
wow that was longer than expected....haha
JumpMan_Punk
Smash Journeyman
That is some great advice coin chaser!! I'm use that info on about though lol
JumpMan_Punk
Smash Journeyman
I don't mind fighting u in catylism if I get money to get there lolcalm down im not braggin and hey i wouldn't mind fighting the shogun is anyone going to viva la catylism if so i will fight any mario's there....the only rreason im saying im good is cause i can back it up...anyone;s opinion is just an opinion but let the facts state for therselves........geez i can never have a little fun.....no disrespect to anyone...
boss8
Smash Hero
coo..i will be the big black guy wearing shaded glasses(there's not that many black smashers anywayz)
i also dought shogun is better then me....but then again thats my opinoin...no disrespect to shogun..he is good.i will just continue to weld myself to the top.
JumpMan_Punk
Smash Journeyman
Iight I'll be the skinny black guy in a bucket cap. Thats if I can go though lol. I hope I can lol
Coin Chaser
Smash Journeyman
thanx dude.....but im not completely sure what u mean by the last part of what u said
limitbreak
Smash Ace
Yea thanks coin chaser. You basically summed up the basics of those match ups. Now ill go into some more detail real quickly. First off, my friend that plays with sheik is no where near my level. I have finally incorporated every advanced tech into my play and i can play with mario, fox, falco, ice climbers, c falcon, and marth very well. Mario is my main of course. Now the problem i have here is this kid doesnt know any of the advanced techs at all. He just some how manages to give me a real tough time. Its just one of my worst matchups i guess and what im looking for is something that will give me an edge. I usually just try to chain grab and do normal combos but the problem i have is finishing the job. Ill get sheik to a high percentage but never find the right kill move. Now on the other hand, sheik doesnt have to do much to mess my mario up. That stupid afa is ridiculous. That punch is so easy to pull of on mario. So overall i guess I have 2 real questions. Do you think its better to play aggressively or defensively? and .... Is there a certain combo that sheik wont be able to escape? Because like you said, you have to be careful with your up a's because it seems like sheik has a way to escape that combo. I wont even get started on Marth until you guys help me out with sheik because marth is just a whole nother story.
MARIOWNAGE
Smash Lord
I live in Canada lol >_>, I'd do it given i was though lmfao
boss8
Smash Hero
-PM-
Smash Ace
boss your not that good sorry =P and i know im not good either but the only good marios are
eggz, shogan, silv, green mario, and pyro
eggz, shogan, silv, green mario, and pyro
Coin Chaser
Smash Journeyman
getting sheik to high percentage out of crouch canceling percentages i think is that hardest part of the battle....once hes at a high percentage there are 2 main ways to kill
1) throwing method..... dthrow to either usmash or fsmash.....if they dont DI at 130ish u can usmash and kill her on fd...idk percentages on other stages...but when shes over 150 u can usmash.....u want them to DI and u can f-smash them at pratically any perecentage.....ud b suprise the range of marios fsmash
2) edgeguard method.....get him off in any way possible and immediately get to the ledge.....u want to force the sheik to use his u-b onto the stage and then punish her bc of he extreme lag after the upb....u can do this by a suprise n-air or a b-throw....or a d-throw to fsmash that doesnt kill him....those really are ur only options unless u can get a wd bair in...
once off the edge like i said get on the ledge and then punish her, if u can get around her and dsmash her using ur front part of the dsmash i recommend u do this.....u coud fsmash her but ur putting her on the other side of the stage where u need to run and grab the edge on the other side
u could also grab after the up-b and do the 1st step method.....the key to the 2nd method is for u to b on the edge......its so important that she doesnt grab the edge or ese its pretty useless and she has the advantage with ledgehopping f-air to back to ledge....pretty gay
i guess it depends are the percentages of which to do....or it matters if u can get a grab on her
honestly if ur problem isnt racking up damage then props to u...thats usually my problem haha....im sure if u work on what i told u.....ur friend wont b much of a threat
but what u truly should do.....is pick fox laser spam and wave shine to u thorws to u airs......and waveshine to f-smash.....and u have a much more successful rate against sheik...haha its not the answer u want to hear in the mario forums but sheik is probably marios worst matchup and fox does a lot better against sheik
i hope i get on that list some day
Me too, cuz. That would be a nice list to be on. Ima keep workin. For rackin up Shiek damage, don't let them get that grab off, either use the few ranged moves (jab, dsmash, ftilt, uair even) to nail that shield without gettin grabbed yourself or to stay out of range. Vary your appraoches and mindgames, and maybe work in some attacks to get behind the shield as well, so you can l cancel throw, dsmash, or chase since they usually roll away if you get behind them. Hope that helps, but overall, Sheik is a huge pain.
DP's Mario
Smash Ace
Yeah, I have to say...
Sheik's & Peaches are probably the most b!tchiest characters to face.
But I haven't met that specific shiek player that "owns" yet, so I can't say.
Sheik's & Peaches are probably the most b!tchiest characters to face.
But I haven't met that specific shiek player that "owns" yet, so I can't say.
MARIOWNAGE
Smash Lord
lol dramario =P
don't get all deffensive & throw out random mm's that would never be fullfilled reguardless of location. And hypothetically speaking if you lost, you'd look like an ***.
TL;DR lol u :3
don't get all deffensive & throw out random mm's that would never be fullfilled reguardless of location. And hypothetically speaking if you lost, you'd look like an ***.
TL;DR lol u :3
Coin Chaser
Smash Journeyman
apparently zelda ***** mario
look at this random video i found
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_oOkXhXe1mM
lol
look at this random video i found
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_oOkXhXe1mM
lol
Eggz
Smash Hero
LOL DP your sig is hilarious/tight.
DP you cant censor bypass because its your sig
i recomend changing it as soon as you can
sorry
i recomend changing it as soon as you can
sorry
DP's Mario
Smash Ace
I got'cha man! My bad...Changed!
EDIT: Thanx for the heads up though, Gimpy. I don't wanna get banned! >_<;
JumpMan_Punk
Smash Journeyman
I meant about the situation vs marth. Sorry man my grammar is famously bad ...T_T
Coin Chaser
Smash Journeyman
got ya...yeah characters that have huge priorty over u....u need to play like a little *****....u need to make the match like 4-5minutes in order to truly win it....bc u cant just jump in.....u gotta fake them out 1st....so eventually they catch on and ur oth dashdancing and looking all flashy.....i usually have this problem with jiggly.....and wait for an opportunity.....and marios best way is to wd to something for horizontal speed
If only that mario wasn't awful =(. Its essentially an even match, perhaps slightly in zelda's favor because mario lacks reliable KO moves, but nothing too severe, just fight zelda like facing marth. Once inside, its gg.
Coin Chaser
Smash Journeyman
lol i kno that mario was awful thats y i had a good laugh and thought more people should also
Hey Boss8 i'll mario ditto you at Cat and i'm fairly confident i'll be more then enough for you.... think of fighting shogun after you can beat someone that doesn't use mario
boss8
Smash Hero
lol thank u all and like i said the standings will speak for themselves...kevinm i don't mind MM u either....hey i don't mind mm cause i no i can't loose to any of u except eggz...and green mario...but anyways i will record with eggz and green mario so u can see me fighting them on youtube till then...just keep doughting me i don't mind...go to the atlantic thread and ask anyone....is boss good???? im sure plenty of peeps will stick up for me there....(doc is better anywayz)