Mario Boards: General Discussion

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Are you kidding me? Ike and Bowser are about even with us, especially Bowser. He's such a huge target.

if there are platforms Bowser wins...

 

[fromundaman]

if there are platforms Bowser wins...

How so? I mean, I know about his Klaw Cancel thing on platforms, but that's not enough to make it in his favor, not to mention Mario is good with platforms.

 

[JUDGE]

I disagree. Ike (?????????????????)and Bowser still beat Mario, regardless of whether or not we camp.

what the?
i disagree.if we camp against ike, we force him to play aggressive
ike has no approach moves
the only thing he can do is trying to PS our fireballs and don't get by our bairs
honestly, ike players havn't got much options to play aggressive

 

[A2ZOMG]

I disagree. Ike and Bowser still beat Mario, regardless of whether or not we camp.

Ike loses to Mario, especially on FD. Learn his spacing and powershield his F-air/D-air on reaction, not to mention his tilts, and shieldcamp anything he does to approach, and there is nothing he can do. His Jab isn't even that safe since you can shieldgrab it between hits if you time it right, and Up-B out of shield is also great at punishing it. People seriously don't get how extremely limited and horrible this character is. He's comparably terrible to Ganondorf, while he has a significantly better Jab and F-air for a somewhat gay spacing game, but he's infinitely worse at followups and edgeguarding, possibly juggled more easily, and hurt just as much by camping in general. He's only slightly better than Ganon since he gets gimped slightly less, and because his Jab and F-air are moderately gay moves.

Bowser only beats Mario on BF, and then Mario is advantaged on every other stage, since once Bowser is offstage, if there isn't a platform for him to land on, he's near-guaranteed to get gimped if you know how to edgeguard. Bowser can't afford to whiff a ground move since that gets punished by F-smash, and his Klaw approach is countered by Up-B or intelligent application of U-air.

FD in my honest opinion ***** people who are easily juggled. When there are no platforms, you are FORCED to go back to your opponent's range as you descend. The usual strategy of air dodging becomes very easily punished by grabbing. BF only helps your juggles if you have an insane pressure game like that of G&W or Metaknight that has multiple followups, but otherwise, platforms hinder juggles by allowing characters to shield them without risking getting grabbed. For this reason, Ike and Bowser are veeeery easy to control on FD. FD also limits their recovery options, since without platforms, they will have nowhere else to land to potentially avoid getting gimped. This goes more for Bowser in particular, due to how bad his vertical recovery is.

Ike in particular is so bad at escaping juggles, some characters who are mobile enough/have enough grab range/both at the same time can simply just throw him upwards, and regrab his landing on reaction regardless of what he does. I can do this very easily with ROB in particular. If he does an aerial, it can be powershieldgrabbed on reaction. If he air dodges, same thing happens when I do a dashing shieldgrab. The only way he can escape is if I misread the location of where he lands, and if I read him correctly, he's helpless to escape.

 

[hippiedude92]

i was reading a post from neoo's comparing his to mikehazee's marth and saying neo's marth is purely reads/memorization/frames. does anyone's mario do this? i can't even memorize mario's frames except for the fact jab is hella fast lol.

 

[Veggi]

I know some of Mario's frame data for the speed of his moves (start up). I might be wrong on parts of it though.

Jab: Frame 2
Ftilt: Frame 3
Up tilt: Frame 3
Dtilt: Frame 5

Fsmash: Frame 14
Up smash: Frame 7
Down smash: Frame 5

Nair: Frame 3
Uair: Frame 4
Bair: Frame 6
Fair: Frame 16
Dair: Frame 6

Up B: Frame 3
Fireball: Frame 14
FLUDD: ????? Frame 126 charge time?
Cape: Frame 12

Grab: Frame 6

I'm not sure how much of it I got wrong because it's from memory. Some of it is just what it looks like, lol.

 

[Matt07]

i was reading a post from neoo's comparing his to mikehazee's marth and saying neo's marth is purely reads/memorization/frames. does anyone's mario do this? i can't even memorize mario's frames except for the fact jab is hella fast lol.

I can understand playing off reading other people, and memorizing their playstyle, bad habits, etc. But I don't think anyone plays off remembering frames? Usually you post the frames, and what said character can do in those frames. (Ie: Using 2 b-airs in short hop.) or what you can do to punish a character. Ie: Marth using f-smash and lags for x frames, what move you can use to punish.

In short, your not really thinking about frames in battle, it's just useful information to know what you can do.

Anyways this is probably really confusing things, as I'm not the best in explaining myself.

 

[JUDGE]

I can understand playing off reading other people, and memorizing their playstyle, bad habits, etc. But I don't think anyone plays off remembering frames? Usually you post the frames, and what said character can do in those frames. (Ie: Using 2 b-airs in short hop.) or what you can do to punish a character. Ie: Marth using f-smash and lags for x frames, what move you can use to punish.

In short, your not really thinking about frames in battle, it's just useful information to know what you can do.

Anyways this is probably really confusing things, as I'm not the best in explaining myself.

this!!!!!
i was thinking exactly the same thing^^

 

[A2ZOMG]

I know some of Mario's frame data for the speed of his moves (start up). I might be wrong on parts of it though.

Jab: Frame 2
Ftilt: Frame 5
Up tilt: Frame 5
Dtilt: Frame 5

Fsmash: Frame 15
Up smash: Frame 9-13 I think
Down smash: Frame 5

Nair: Frame 3
Uair: Frame 4
Bair: Frame 6
Fair: Frame 16
Dair: Frame 6

Up B: Frame 3 Invincible frame 3-6
Fireball: Frame 14
FLUDD: ????? Frame 126 charge time?
Cape: Frame 12

Grab: Frame 6

I'm not sure how much of it I got wrong because it's from memory. Some of it is just what it looks like, lol.

Corrected you.

I am extremely mindgame oriented honestly. However, my knowledge of frame data gives me a good idea of what I can use to punish people out of shield if I time correctly, and it also gives me a good idea what I can do safely. My knowledge of frame data is the reason why I like Mario's F-smash so much. It looks slow, but the range is so massive that you can punish almost anything with it not named G&W's Smashes.

Knowing frame data also helps you learn autocancel windows, but those can be figured out through trial and error too.

And against someone like Ike for example, I am pretty well aware that if he does anything to approach, Up-smash out of shield punishes it (reverse F-smash out of shield punishes QD, Up-B out of shield and shieldgrabbing can punish his Jabs). He just simply doesn't have any respectable frame advantages on block.

 

[Matt07]

Nice, that's pretty useful information :O.

A2, or if anyone else knows I know this was discussed for a little bit but is d-tilt to fsmash a true combo? I was playing friendlies yesterday, and I hit them every time with it. Well whenever the d-tilt hit >_>.

Seriously if d-tilt didn't have so much **** ending lag on it, and better range, I swear we'd have a guaranteed K.O setup.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's a good trap setup at high percents, but D-tilt doesn't combo into anything. Mario's U-tilt technically only barely combos into itself and has less ending lag than Mario's D-tilt of course, so anything you can do with D-tilt is escapable.

D-tilt's range isn't that bad anyway. It can shield poke, and it reaches further than Jab/D-smash.

 

[hippiedude92]

I can understand playing off reading other people, and memorizing their playstyle, bad habits, etc. But I don't think anyone plays off remembering frames? Usually you post the frames, and what said character can do in those frames.
In short, your not really thinking about frames in battle, it's just useful information to know what you can do.

Anyways this is probably really confusing things, as I'm not the best in explaining myself.

yeah this is what i kinda meant by frames xD.

but you still cant forget that awesome *** sexy jab frame 2.

god it's so tender and sexy lol.

 

[Veggi]

Wait? All of Mario's tilts are frame 5? I thought f and u (lol) tilts were faster than that.

 

[hippiedude92]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFTuWeb6lIA

boss's mario vs adhd's diddy kong game 1 recent tourney vid

boss told me he usually observe's people in game 1 and so he takes alot of beating but once he takes down the notes, he starts the ****.

notice how around 3:40 he starts to land hits more and before all that ,he just kept taking massive damage and what not, but had so many oppunities in later on after it and made a comeback?

boss is2gud

someone critique that ****.

 

[Matador]

Boss is so sick, wow.

ADHD has crazy reading skills tho, pretty ridiculous. Thanks for the link dood

<---Thinks about frames when he plays O_o

Am I weird now?

 

[hippiedude92]

nah that ain't weird lmfao.

just found this. so much on the line too omgggg

tell me how this fatty POWERSHIELDS EVERYTHING I DO EVEN MY FRAME 5 DSMASH BIZATCH GAY MOFO.

2nd stock i went to hell

3rd stock, y'all gonna laugh lmfao.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bclsPf1IAuM&feature=related

hope you like that mario because that **** sucks and it got ***** rofl

 

[Matador]

lol, still an epic match tho Hippy, you use upB way better than I do. Your First KO was sex.

I hate D3's Bair. It's too good at edgeguarding Mario.

 

[Veggi]

Boss' Luigi was working those bananas.

Hippy, did you really just use Mario's up b invincibility frames to avoid being killed by Dedede's utilt? O_o

 

[hippiedude92]

It's called being a step ahead since like upb's inv frames is like frame 3? can't remember but yeah i did, lol it beat out his super armor or it came out too late idk lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_PbzDPQVio

marth's are mad hard when they are at tipper range lol.

 

[Veggi]

You guys need to learn how to work anti-edgeguard FLUDD magic like Veggi does.

 

[vato_break]

happy birthday suspect =)

 

[Veggi]

Which suspect? >_>

There's quite a couple of them.

 

[Matt07]

Boss!

Happy birthday dude .

 

[bobson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bclsPf1IAuM&feature=related

What is that ten-pummel **** you let him get away with at 4:04? You should be mashing like a fool, especially against Dedede.

 

[Veggi]

Hippy doesn't want to mash buttons and then get ground release killed from buffering a move off the edge.

 

[hippiedude92]

@bob, lol you know that wasn't a real mm? XD why would i mm $10 against a d3 xDDD

but yeah veggi is somewhat right, i somewhat dont really mash buttons lol. really lazy/dont feel like breaking controller.

 

[Javon89]

Either way that was a good match Hippy, I need to use B-up like you.

 

[fromundaman]

Hippie, while I do like the way you use UpB in general, I feel you need to be a lot more careful with it, ESPECIALLY vs D3. There's a lot of times where you whiffed and set yourself up for an infinite.

In fact, D3 is one of the characters I wouldn't do much UpB on at all, because even if you hit, if he SDIs out, that's an infinite.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the way you used it, I just suggest being more cautious with it, especially vs D3.
That being said, it was a nice match. The end was so anti-climatic though XD


EDIT:
Nice game vs Marth too. Love those techs.

Also... I hate marth... so much...

 

[bobson]

I always mash like a psycho no matter if it's serious or not. I figure if you never mash in friendlies, you won't have your fingers trained to mash on reaction in tournament.

 

[vato_break]

i thinks we should have another metagame discussion :D

 

[Javon89]

Great idea at least us Marios' can have something more to talk about, plus I like debates and sharing ATs and strategies.

 

[hippiedude92]

lol thanks.

yea i mean idk why we pretended that friendly was some hard core shizzz. like my friend mintyflesh whose a marth main always uses his upb for the inv frames or as his little panic button, so i got my marth slightly like his, so i tried testing out against d3's with mario's upb but i think mario's upb inv frames is like frame 3 or something, so you have to be a step faster.

i was whiffing it alot more than i thought though lol, l'm def not using it at lower %s though. Too risky. glad y'all liked it.

 

[Fire!]

So I hear TC1 is making a combo video. Awesome.

 

[vato_break]

that means i have to hurry up with mine, LOL

 

[BoTastic!]

me too! I'm coming out with a trailer this weekend.

 

[JUDGE]

hahahaha^^
i'm workin' on mine too^^
and if we make another metagame discussion it will be on : MSN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not aim

 

[fromundaman]

Mario boards: The only place that has more combo videos than placings

 

[A2ZOMG]

fromundaman, that applies to the Ganon boards too.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... don't they only have one combo-

Oh... good point.

 

[Inferno3044]

I feel like an oddball not having/planning to make any combo videos