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Mario Boards: General Discussion

Matador

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
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Location
Bowie, MD
Lmaoooo, ouch @ that brutally cold sarcasm.

Yeah...I share the same view. Had high hopes for brawl+ when they first announced it...till I saw Falcon, of course.

It shouldnt be that easy to 0-death. Ever.
 
Calebyte

Calebyte

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,257
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Guys I don't know how to fight Pikachu. I almost lost to some Pikachu at a smashfest yesterday. I only won because in game 3 I quit approaching and did literally nothing but fireball camping, power-shielding thunder-jolt, and baiting dash-attack to get grabs. It was the most painful 7 minutes of my life.
 
DtJ XeroXen

DtJ XeroXen

The biggest fraud
Joined
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4,166
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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XeroXen
Calebyte said:
Guys I don't know how to fight Pikachu. I almost lost to some Pikachu at a smashfest that we did not invite Xero to yesterday. I only won because in game 3 I quit approaching and did literally nothing but fireball camping, power-shielding thunder-jolt, and baiting dash-attack to get grabs. It was the most painful 7 minutes of my life.
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I'm honestly not too sure about that matchup, it's weird and I haven't played it much. But I did change a little something in that quote up there...
 
Inferno3044

Inferno3044

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,755
Location
Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
If you have to hardcore camp him to win, then do it that way. I played a Diddy, I CP'd him to RC and was ready to clock him out. I ended up 2 stocking him at the last 2 minutes
 
Calebyte

Calebyte

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,257
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Gheb_01 said:
What gave you trouble?

:059:
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Didn't feel like I could get inside. Pika's such a tiny & quick little bugger. Felt like I was being completely out-zoned and out-prioritized, especially in the air. I didn't successfully SDI dsmash a lot, and on the ground I just felt sluggish to the point where I was too scared to do anything but camp the **** out of him.
 
rPSIvysaur

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Calebyte said:
Proj M.

By the way, my favorite Brawl mod is BBrawl, but apparently I'm an idiot for liking a game that stays true to vBrawl but just tries to balance it, because added hitstun makes everything better, obv.
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Apparently I'm and idiot too for thinking that balancing out a game I play competitively would be good when I can just play with hitstun on.
 
~ Gheb ~

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
Calebyte said:
Didn't feel like I could get inside. Pika's such a tiny & quick little bugger. Felt like I was being completely out-zoned and out-prioritized, especially in the air. I didn't successfully SDI dsmash a lot, and on the ground I just felt sluggish to the point where I was too scared to do anything but camp the **** out of him.
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If you're feeling outzoned, try to walk more - it makes powershielding easier and it's harder for your opponent to space his moves correctly [you can also try to roll behind him - unless the opponent is in a completely neutral position it's actually safe to do]. You also have more options out of walking than dashing [or jumping]. This can also help you if you think you're losing in the air...bait him there, WALK under him and utilt / or dash usmash if you powershield something. Mario has a reliable anti-air game because he can stay grounded, which puts the attacker at a higher risk.

If it's generally his attacks you are directly losing to, I recommend baiting them - see which moves he prefers to use, fake empty short hop and follow him on the ground. Remember that immediate punishment isn't always the best punishment. If you can't punish his aerials directly, it can be good enough to close in on him to break his zoning and win a bit of stage control. Patience is the key here.

:059:
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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A2ZOMG
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Calebyte said:
Proj M.

By the way, my favorite Brawl mod is BBrawl, but apparently I'm an idiot for liking a game that stays true to vBrawl but just tries to balance it, because added hitstun makes everything better, obv.
Click to expand...
Keep supporting it. The next release is on the horizon, and if there is anything that will be SUPER amazing, it's gonna be the Ice Climbers. The ICs are going to be a character that EVERYONE will enjoy playing in the next version of BBrawl.

On top of the other awesome things that BBrawl already has accomplished.

There's actually a lot of really good combos in BBrawl. (Usually) simple angle and knockback changes alone accomplish that.

Calebyte said:
Guys I don't know how to fight Pikachu. I almost lost to some Pikachu at a smashfest yesterday. I only won because in game 3 I quit approaching and did literally nothing but fireball camping, power-shielding thunder-jolt, and baiting dash-attack to get grabs. It was the most painful 7 minutes of my life.
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Yeah you don't really want to approach Pikachu much. Generally you don't even have to since your fireballs and Cape discourage him from trying to camp you. Mario is even one of few characters who doesn't mind edgestalling against Thunder Jolts thanks to Cape Stalling.

Try not to rely on rising B-airs against him, since he can duck under them. In fact try not to primarily approach from the air, since his anti-air options against you are pretty good (U-tilt, D-smash, F-smash, U-air, N-air). F-tilt is REALLY useful in this matchup, just beware of his F-tilt AND D-tilt when playing poke games with him. AutoJabbing is a must against Pikachu especially if he relies on his gay 20/22 spotdodge. You can F-smash out of shield against the last hit of his D-smash which is like -30 on block or something.

Edgeguarding him is tough if he's good, but N-air can be used to control space. Cape does weird things against Pika's Up-B since his hurtbox magically grows when he does it, so it's worth a shot trying to Cape his Up-B sometimes. FLUDD and fireballs are amazing against SideB.

You can at least take comfort in the fact that trades are good for you in this matchup...although Pikachu has better priority than you do especially on the ground. Matchup is extra annoying if they're REALLY good at QAC shenanigans which can both be used for approaching and running away, though again, throwing out lingering attacks in reaction to that usually is good due to Pika's extended hurtbox while using Up-B.
 
Juushichi

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
5,518
Location
Columbus, Ohio
A2Z's got it right for the most part, keeping up with Pika's speed is tough. Roller did work on me a bunch of times (as well as you, I guess) so I'm still trying to figure it out.

Btw, NEO announced a smash project in general Brawl's board that I think you might be interested in, Caleb. You should go check it out.
 
Supreme Dirt

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Gonna be sticking around a while.

I think I have a mental block on the Mario MU or something. Seriously.

And if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

So yeah, basically I discovered Mario's Up-B.
 
Matador

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
Joined
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Against Pikachu, don't rush things. He can't CG or camp us with Tjolts in this match-up, so it's simply a spacng game. Try not to be in the air if it's not completely necessary, don't hit his shield, and don't mess up any smash DI (especially on anything that'll set you up for an early thunder kill).

We kill earlier in general, can gimp him, can punish all of his smashes with fsmash when shielded (two of them even space it perfectly for us), and a lot of his shenanigans randomly don't work on Mario. We lose our advantages in this match-up when you push to get inside and get punished for everything. Just apply safe pressure with spaced aerials, punish with nair oos, mix-up into grabs to keep him from shielding too much, and generally have more patience than him.

This match-up isn't supposed to end quickly. I know my advice is easier said than done, but it really is the most solid strategy that I know for this match-up.

Edit @Supreme Dirt: Lol, good ****. I recently started using MK heavily to help me learn the match-up. I kinda know when he's vulnerable now without needing to think about it. That same should work for you vs Mario.
 
Inferno3044

Inferno3044

Smash Master
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Messages
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Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
Matador said:
Against Pikachu, don't rush things. He can't CG or camp us with Tjolts in this match-up, so it's simply a spacng game. Try not to be in the air if it's not completely necessary, don't hit his shield, and don't mess up any smash DI (especially on anything that'll set you up for an early thunder kill).

We kill earlier in general, can gimp him, can punish all of his smashes with fsmash when shielded (two of them even space it perfectly for us), and a lot of his shenanigans randomly don't work on Mario. We lose our advantages in this match-up when you push to get inside and get punished for everything. Just apply safe pressure with spaced aerials, punish with nair oos, mix-up into grabs to keep him from shielding too much, and generally have more patience than him.

This match-up isn't supposed to end quickly. I know my advice is easier said than done, but it really is the most solid strategy that I know for this match-up.

Edit @Supreme Dirt: Lol, good ****. I recently started using MK heavily to help me learn the match-up. I kinda know when he's vulnerable now without needing to think about it. That same should work for you vs Mario.
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Pikachu CAN kill earlier with Thunder, but you said to watch out for that. I believe our kill power is about even give or take. His Usmash is pretty reliable though. His nair can kill at higher percents as well so watch out for that. Also a good Pikachu won't get gimped often if at all. He has one of the best recoveries in the game. Probably the only ones that might be better are MK and Jiggs.

I do agree for the most part. A lot of what makes Pikachu good (CGs and tjolt) doesn't work on Mario. Just take your time and force him to approach. It's about even. Possibly Mario's advantage.
 
Matador

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Yeah, thunder can kill if you DI incorrectly, airdodge too early, or the Pika reads your DI. You actually have alot of control over those early thunder kills though. Just DI those attacks that put you in position for it, and don't do anything until you're sure that the thunder is coming. Yeah, he'll land some, but you can decrease that chance by being prepared for the set-ups.

And it's not easy to gimp Pika, but it's well within the realm of possibility. Fludd does weird things to his upB and completely halts his sideB. That, and you can cape both as well. It's difficult, but still should be considered an advantage for Mario in this match-up, IMO.
 
A2ZOMG

A2ZOMG

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Pikachu's Thunder can kill you in two gimmicky ways. There's the good ol Thunderflip. Try not to mash buttons on reflex if you're knocked upwards, so that you can try to dodge the Thunderbolt on reaction. And ALWAYS hold sideways when Pikachu grabs you. You don't want to get unnecessarily gayed by his U-throw.

And then there is the Thunder sweetspot when the bolt hits Pikachu. This attack mainly is gonna kill you if he gets you near the edge or offstage with it. It has ******** base knockback, but fairly low growth, so you should generally not worry too much about getting killed by it from center stage as long as you don't DI badly. Generally as long as you are smart about saving Cape offstage while recovering, this gimp should mostly be a non-issue.

Also it really should go without saying, but try not to miss a tech against Pikachu. If he does it right, he can QAC a missed tech to cause a forced getup which = free Smash for him. He technically can get an infinite from this, but it is difficult to do.
 
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