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[MAJOR] Australian Cyber League (ACL): Melbourne April 9th-10th

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
3,811
Location
Amazing Land
I don't think SA understand

You don't just ban something because it ****s the game up (eg glitches, walls + ddd, so on)

You ban things because they negatively impact the game.

You can't ban wario from camping, you cant ban snake from camping, but you can remove parts of the game that induce overall bad gameplay, which is one of the things that ps2 do best

Why don't we have items on? because that creates luck based elements that whilst they can be adjusted to, they create an advantage that the player did not earn.

This is exactly what PS2 does to a large enough degree that it is a negative effect on gameplay itself.

PS1 does not impact gameplay that badly and that quickly, in comparison to ps2.

Pulling a stitch face or throwing a gordo is luck, but we cannot enforce that, nor is it that game breaking.

Since we can enforce stages, we will.

Just because you CAN adapt to the changes in ps2, does not mean you should be forced to. Same thing with PS1 or other stages that change, but those other changes are MUCH easier to deal with and have much less of a negative impact of the overall game.

The only time you should have learn a different playstyle is when your opponent forces you to with how they play or how the use the stage itself, not because the stage simply decides you should.



Also rulesets are created to make the game as competitively solid as possible, not to create a deviation half mix of competitive and "how the game was meant to be played", the argument of "the natural meta game" is so flawed it makes me wonder if you guys really do play the game.



Also skill is a very direct indicator of understanding the game itself, do you think ted or Attila or splice place so well consistently in majors without playing the game a large amount and learning so much about the game? To get better at a game you need to understand it, which is also one of the factors why you guys probably are actually that bad, because you don't understand the game, the way you argue simply shows how little you really do understand.

You then go into a match with someone who understands the game (such as themselves) with you lack of understanding and experience and well simply get your **** handed to you like no tomorrow



Look at how the Europeans handle melee

5 stages (the normal neutrals) and 1 counter pick.

The rest of the stages promote pretty deplorable play styles, thus banned.

And really in the end, do you guys honestly think that you yourselves, the players that cant even make it out of pools at a major REALLY have more understanding than the players who have been winning tournaments for years and traveling state to state to play?

Do you honestly think that EVERYONE except YOURSELVES simply have NO idea about smash in the slightest, and we just somehow manage to stomp you guys into the ground every time through pure skill and no understanding of the game?

Really once you guys leave puberty and grow a pair, you'll probably realize not only is attempting to understand other people and their POV a good thing, but simply that you guys really aren't the forefront of international smash, or even Australian smash.
 

Testikills

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
480
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
Aw don't put Grim in his place, I love reading the ramblings and the angry responses


if more people go from brisbane ill definitely come. hotdogs should come with me and we could stay at lieshas with M and get better at mvc3 together.
You need to fix that crazy control layout first
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
I could reply to that post and bring up that your opinion on what a ruleset should do is no more valid than mine.

Also that the way I craft rulesets is backed up by years of competitive game design data and research while yours introduces numerous double standards and is practically over-flowing with subjectivity.

But I won't.
 

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
3,811
Location
Amazing Land
Please, you have failed to enlighten myself or anyone time and time again, feel free to fail once more
 

Ghostbone

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
4,665
Location
Australia
I don't think SA understand

You don't just ban something because it ****s the game up (eg glitches, walls + ddd, so on)

You ban things because they negatively impact the game.
Agreed?

You can't ban wario from camping, you cant ban snake from camping, but you can remove parts of the game that induce overall bad gameplay, which is one of the things that ps2 do best
Well you can, you just ban wario or snake. I also disagree that PS2 induces bad gameplay, it's simply different.
Why don't we have items on? because that creates luck based elements that whilst they can be adjusted to, they create an advantage that the player did not earn.
Pretty much.
This is exactly what PS2 does to a large enough degree that it is a negative effect on gameplay itself.
Umm...no? How exactly is it any more of a luck based advantage than PS1? Or Delfino? Especially when you get 7 seconds of warning. It's not that hard to prepare for it, especially when the middle is basically the best spot in all of them, and everything follows a strict timer. So you should know exactly when the stage will transform.
PS1 does not impact gameplay that badly and that quickly, in comparison to ps2.
Umm it's just as quickly (which is still very slowly), and idk having your approaching options limited as much as they are on PS1, or having a cave of life is a really bad effect on gameplay.
Pulling a stitch face or throwing a gordo is luck, but we cannot enforce that, nor is it that game breaking.

Since we can enforce stages, we will.
You could just ban those moves if you want to get rid of randomness...., I'm still not seeing how it's so luck based on PS2, especially when the stage will cycle through all the transformations before repeating, unlike PS1 where it can randomly go rock over and over again....
Just because you CAN adapt to the changes in ps2, does not mean you should be forced to. Same thing with PS1 or other stages that change, but those other changes are MUCH easier to deal with and have much less of a negative impact of the overall game.
Why not? That's like saying you shouldn't be forced to deal with different characters.
The only time you should have learn a different playstyle is when your opponent forces you to with how they play or how the use the stage itself, not because the stage simply decides you should.
Opinion, and other stages force this as well. (Frigate, Delfino)
And if it's counter-pick it's at least your opponent indirectly doing this.

Also rulesets are created to make the game as competitively solid as possible, not to create a deviation half mix of competitive and "how the game was meant to be played", the argument of "the natural meta game" is so flawed it makes me wonder if you guys really do play the game.
Yea no they're not, but moving on, do you agree that the most competitive ruleset is the one with the most depth?


Also skill is a very direct indicator of understanding the game itself, do you think ted or Attila or splice place so well consistently in majors without playing the game a large amount and learning so much about the game? To get better at a game you need to understand it, which is also one of the factors why you guys probably are actually that bad, because you don't understand the game, the way you argue simply shows how little you really do understand.

You then go into a match with someone who understands the game (such as themselves) with you lack of understanding and experience and well simply get your **** handed to you like no tomorrow
Player skill != Understanding of the game mechanics.
Otherwise M2K wouldn't get hit by Ganon's up-tilt.

Look at how the Europeans handle melee
Melee is a different game though, you can't apply the same arguments for Brawl and Melee.
5 stages (the normal neutrals) and 1 counter pick.

The rest of the stages promote pretty deplorable play styles, thus banned.
I agree with banning Kongo Jungle but Brinstar and RC aren't that bad, plus you have a stage ban.
And really in the end, do you guys honestly think that you yourselves, the players that cant even make it out of pools at a major REALLY have more understanding than the players who have been winning tournaments for years and traveling state to state to play?
No and I never said I did?
I still know more about stages, which is what we're discussing right?
Do you honestly think that EVERYONE except YOURSELVES simply have NO idea about smash in the slightest, and we just somehow manage to stomp you guys into the ground every time through pure skill and no understanding of the game?
lolno, please point out where I implied this or stop flaming.
Really once you guys leave puberty and grow a pair, you'll probably realize not only is attempting to understand other people and their POV a good thing, but simply that you guys really aren't the forefront of international smash, or even Australian smash.
You really think I'm not open-minded about this sort of thing? My opinions on stages change a lot, it's your side that is being stubborn and flaming and not listening to our opinions.
 

luke_atyeo

Smash Hero
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
7,215
whoa whoa whoa guys, arent you guys forgetting someone here?
time for me to get to work...

Ok. Well here's an example. I made a post making a point.

You made a post attacking my credability at deciding what makes a good competitive stage.

now let me start with this, ted made a post about his opinions on the levels in question.
Ghostbones next post, was literally insulting teds opinion, saying that he's wrong and insulting him.
so if you dont like personal attacks, then dont start them perhaps?

So, if you want to use the whole 'but its my OPINION, and you cant say my OPINOIN is wrong because its an OPINON' then dont go around telling people their opinions are wrong and insulting them for it.

As you can see, the above is undeniable proof, that you are both hypocrites, and hypocrites dont have the right to argue about anything, because they have shown they are incredably stupid.

now see grim, when I say your increbily stupid...

well let me put it this way.
you lack experiance, so you try to make up for that experiance with theory crafting and using logic.

but that DOES, NOT, WORK
to make my point a little clearer (because the last several pages have shown that you guys are bad at comprehension)

On the air stage, snake isn't helpless on the air part lol. He can drop heaps of **** down below him and he has bair.
this is completely and utterly wrong, and everythough logically it might sound correct, those in the know (read those with the proper experiance) know better (you are not one of those people)

You're just digging a hole for yourself, Dekar.
all you've ever been doing is digging a hole for yourself grim, and deks was just helping you make your own hole deeper.

Lol, it's just Grim & Ghost that are the opinionated/argue all the time 14/15 year olds.
But I agree, everyone here should be kicked in the mouth.
By luke, with no socks on. <3
ease up buddy, that would literally kill them.
but as you can see grim/ghost, it isnt just us people on the internet that thing you are young, immature and stupid, its people who know you in person too.

I'm not claiming to have achieved anything in either game, where do people always get this idea that I'm some full-of-myself brat that thinks he is better than the top Australian players? I was just arguing my opinion over a stage list, why do you have any more right to do that than I do?
because he has proved himself on a national level.
like it or not, he has WAY more right to it then you, top level players have proved that they know what they are doing, and always have way more sway on things.
if you dont like it, then its up to you to go out of state and prove to people that you know what your doing.
nothing you say in response to this, no matter how right you may think you are, will change that fact, so dont even bother.

Sorry but those sorts of statements about SA are kinda outdated, come over at Reloaded and you'll see ;)
sorry appollo, but I very much doubt that.
you are too nice of a person, I'll never ever reach that level of niceness in my entire life.


Enlighten me then....I did read your posts and got nothing constructive out of them.


It's funny because the US has it legal and are better than us so obviously we should all just learn to play the game right?


And now you're making personal attacks? Really helps your credibility right?
lets have some more fun with this
first off, if you read our posts and get nothing out of them then there is literally no reaon for us to try to enlighten you, because we'd just say the same thing again and you'd still get nothing out of them.
we're not miracle workers, we cant enlighten you, we cant make you suddenly understand what we're saying.
we can only take you to the water, but we cant make you drink it.

next, the problem with that is that your generalizing america, which is stupid and clearly unbecoming of such master of arguement as you guys.
America has really good smart players who are worth listerning too, but unfortunatly those players are drowned out by the american eqivuelents of grim and ghost.
it would make sense that you'd listern to those idiots, and ignore the smart players, and then through this **** out at us.
For the record, america is better then us.

as for the last part about personal attacks, well as I covered above, you stared it with ted, so dont come crying when he returns the favor (which was much harser, but you earned it)


anyways in conclusion, grim and ghost, are both silly children who, as children do, over estimate their worth in the world, are hypocritcal and full of double standards (yet claim that everyone else is instead)
and will most likely read this entire post by me, understand nothing of it, argue against it in a stupid way that proves they didnt understand it, and reignite this whole thing but with me instead of ted.

if both of you are truly sick and tired of this, then come to an out of state tourney.

I've seen plenty of people just like you 2, and when they came out of state they realized the error of their ways.
so if you want to try to prove us wrong, and instead get proven wrong and become slightly better people, then come to a sydney tourney.

I will even come out of retirement and attend that tourney JUST FOR YOU, since I'm so nice.
 

luke_atyeo

Smash Hero
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
7,215
and in case I wasnt clear, heres some more PROOF FOR YOU STUPID CHILDREN


some quote from some guy
"And really in the end, do you guys honestly think that you yourselves, the players that cant even make it out of pools at a major REALLY have more understanding than the players who have been winning tournaments for years and traveling state to state to play? "

ghosts response:

No and I never said I did?
I still know more about stages, which is what we're discussing right?
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, READ THAT AGAIN GHOST

whoever that quote was from used the word understand, THAT IMPLIES STAGES, WHICH ARE A HUGE PART OF THE GAME


SO, WHEN YOU SAY,
NO AND I NEVER SAID I DID, (referring to knowing more about stages) AND THEN IN THE SENTENCE DIRECTLY BELOW THAT, SAY THAT YOU DO KNOW MORE ABOUT STAGES, YOU HAVE LITERALLY CONTRADICTED YOURSELF IN THE SPACE OF TEN SECONDS.


AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR

!!!YOU WROTE, NO I DONT CLAIM TO KNOW MORE ABOUT STAGES THEN YOU, BUT I DO KNOW MORE ABOUT STAGES THEN YOU!!!



PLEASE, RESPOND TO THIS, TELL ME HOW THIS IS WRONG IN ANYWAY, AND HOW YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF ALL THE INSULTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT ARE BEING DIRECTED AT YOU!!!

****ING *******.


caps lock is cruise control for cool.
 

TakFR

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
1,803
Location
Flipping Out Someplace
NNID
TakAE86
Is Grim really trying to say that he knows how smash works just as much or even more then skilled and respected smash players because he analyses "competitive game design"? rofl

Basically you're saying that by analysing such things you know what to do in particular situations and how to counter them, then you make comments to Nova saying "You only won because you play Marth, i'm actually better then you". Implying that you understand smash at a deep level, yet you're input is so bad that your fingers can't keep up with you're so called understanding of competitive play?

Regardless of what you say, skill level and understanding of the game are related especially in terms of smash and traditional fighting games. Deal with it
 

Gears

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
370
because he has proved himself on a national level.
like it or not, he has WAY more right to it then you, top level players have proved that they know what they are doing, and always have way more sway on things.
if you dont like it, then its up to you to go out of state and prove to people that you know what your doing.
nothing you say in response to this, no matter how right you may think you are, will change that fact, so dont even bother.
Truth.
10truths.
 

Dekar289

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,306
i'll take the melee offer
let's do every matchup possible, for a total of 676 bo5 sets
 

Sirias

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,626
Location
Sydney, Australia
Well that whole rant between you guys was a total waste of time to read.
But I did learn that you're all arguing about the same thing over and over again and gaining no advantage at all, because you're all going around in circles. xD
You're all getting so personally involved as well, jeez, learn to look at things objectively and through the whole community, not through your own eyes, urgh.

I DO AGREE that Ted and Luke and Dekar and all them have much more say than Grim and Ghost, but I still don't think that their opinions are any less valid, because a COMMUNITY is based on taking EVERYONE'S words into account, not just the 'better' players.
And do you know WHY?
Because when people know they are good at a game they get your ridiculous mind-set of: "I'm better, therefore everyone else is wrong." Just like the knob's perception of: "I believe I'm better, therefore everyone else is wrong." You're all in that stupid mind-set.

And that's what the entire argument is about, just who wants to be 'right' and then, what, recognized as the superior person? Bah. Stop needing the attention. If someone says something that doesn't comply with your omniscience then just ignore them, and don't say things like: "I could counter your argument, but I won't." Because that's the same as having the last say in an argument and therefore you're sort of winning because you're leading people into believing you actually might know more, but we all already don't give a crap and the only ones that do are the ones who are blind sighted by rage, lol.

I think it's died nonetheless, so if this continues anything then, well, I'm sorry, because all I'm trying to do is show you all that you're all just as wrong as each other and you'll never be 'right' because there is no 'right'. We're a community based on learning from experiences, but half of those experiences 'to-be' are doused by the infinite amount of people whinging about what they think is better, just because other people believe it to be so.

To Grim and Ghost, if you want people to listen to you, you're going about it the wrong way, completely. Not only do you not have any backup from the community, you're also just pressuring everyone to look at you and think, instantly: "You are right.". We won't think that, and even if you were the best player in Australia, we still wouldn't, because it's not your opinion(s) alone that matter, but the majority, and if the majority hates it, then the majority wins (well, with logic in there, too). Which is why Meta Knight isn't banned, because it's illogical to ban a whole character. But it's logical to take away stages based on all the statistics and wah-wah-wahing of all the people who've brought it up.

And Ted and Luke (and Dekar, to some extent, too) need to stop being so egotistical. It's good to have an ego but it's just ridiculous when you let it get out of hand and then start acting like you're so much better just because you've proved yourself in a national. Gratz, you came 1st/2nd/3rd/4th, or whatever, ok, kool. And? We know you're good, we know you've proven yourself, but you don't need to rub it in. And just because you've played other people honestly doesn't mean you know more about the game. I don't know **** about Melee, lol, all I know is that I hate certain stages and how to wave-dash and, well, that's it, lol. However, with Brawl, it is different. Knowledge is a big part of the game, and not knowing how certain stages and characters work is definitely worse than not knowing in Melee. HOWEVER, my point is, though, that you're letting the 'glory' get to your head. You're good, but you're not leaders.

And yes, America is better, and looking at them, or any other country that is better (basically Europe/Japan) is a good way of learning and taking some of their actions into our own and implementing them is a good way to grow, so I don't see why you're shrugging that off so harshly. However, at the same time, copying them completely is a wrong way to go about things, too, we should try to be individuals as well. =]

Mmm I dunno what else was said recently, but if anything I think that everyone's getting too personally involved and completely blinded by their egos. Just drop it, really, or at least come up with INFORMATIVE posts, not just: "We are better. We know more. Shut up." Or: "This way is better. I know more. Listen to me.". Which is, if anything, the core of all your posts so far.

To whoever read this.
Lol.
You just wasted like 5 minutes of your life. XD

TL:DR - All of the people arguing stop being so egotistical and either let it go or post something more significant than: "I know more.".
 

luke_atyeo

Smash Hero
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
7,215
I never said anything of that sort kas, I said that other people, like ted for instance, are worth listerning to.

nowhere have I said anything about my own knowledge of the game, I stay out of arguements like those and instead just belittle people who overstep their boundrys.
 

Dekar289

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,306
$20 per team, ACL contributes $10 per team to the pot also
teams items stamina tournament (only stages that are illegal in standard tournament play are legal, 1 ban each) (the usual items turned on, no healers etc)
sets are best of 9, grand finals best of 15

so tense
so good
 

Dekar289

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,306
tak 11 beta we played nicks + u13 vs plasia + dekar for hours
teams items stamina is the bomb, that bomrbormbb
(plasia and dekar on flatzone unbeatable, we stomp our opponents in 5 seconds average)
 

Unlucky XIII

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
32
Location
Victoria, Australia
(plasia and dekar on flatzone unbeatable, we stomp our opponents in 5 seconds average)
yeah, good thing we are masters of the stage ban cancel
Stage ban cancel was the only way you could beat the monster that was Kirby. The tier list is upside-down.

This'll probably be my first major, hoping to see some hype state rivalry finals in person for once.
 
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