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Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
ok, well i will be in the lab for a while, but we're almost done, so we should finish earlier today i think

also, mahone, it's really obvious that your fox is still better than your falco. I beat your fox every time you bring it out in friendlies cause you never warm it up. but given 3 matches to warm up.. we saw what happened in our serious set today.
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
patiently? I mean he sucks vertically so if you manage to send him..you know...not into the top corners a bair should do it. As for sending him there I dunno, it's really annoying of course that's me being a hyprocite lol. Just use your jumps to stay up there and try to hit him with bair/fair and not pound/uair outside of kill percents. I'll let someone else elaborate/prove me wrong.
 

Bieber

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
164
Location
Up in the air
yo mahone, i saw you're going to apex, can we get some puff dittos in on thursday or friday?

i have to beat hyuga to make it out of pools and i'm pretty much balls at the ditto
 

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
ok, first of all i know ur really good so i doubt thats the only way u can make it out of pools, regardless of who's in it (u should post ur pool cuz now im curious)

2nd of all, pp has chosen this time to tell me im out of his way, which is somewhat annoying and means that i won't be able to go unless i decide to drive alone a considerable amount and make arrangements for my car for 3 days...

but, i am actually really good at the ditto cuz the last 2 times (the last one being only a week ago) ive played m2k hes only wanted to do puff dittos LOL so i got that 3RD BEST PUFF IN THE WORLD practice

hmmm... i started writing some advice in for the mu but it really is one that u just need to play, i mean its a ditto after all so any little tricks aren't going to matter much since ur opponent can just copy whatever ur doing, so u just have to play it and get used to all the situations so u aren't the one surprised and not sure what to do

of course if i go i would be down to play with u whenever

man... this really sucks, i have been seriously practicing for the last couple days too...

we'll see, i might be bored enough to go through all the bs to go, but right now im not sure
 

Bieber

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
164
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Up in the air
thanks but nobody knows who i am lol so i got **** for seeding

http://i.imgur.com/MXWLJ.gif

assuming kk bodies me and hyuga loses to mdz (if not i'm fine since i can beat mdz) it's gotta be puff on puff

i really hope you can make it man, partly so i can learn the ditto but mainly because it'd be sick to see a good puff in bracket that isn't hbox or darc

dangit pp
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
You beat Nintendude

I know who you are

We have a peculiar pool. At a glance I think Sheridan vs MDZ can go either way. From playing both last APEX with my assortment of characters (mostly Fox) and watching them the odd match at Rule 6 and TBH2, I'd say Sheridan is a bit better most of the time but MDZ arbitrarily beats really solid people so shrug. This is also ironically the opposite of how comparisons between Falcos and Puffs tend to go unless HBox is involved. If you know your anti-Falco and you don't miss the rest like Abu I think you have grounds to be confident in that one though.

As for handling Sheridan? The Puff ditto is bizarre. Personally I think I would probably space a lot of fair, nair, fish for dair setups after like 40%, and shield aerials a lot into jumps or other stuff OOS. I am doubtful this is optimal though. If you can press them to the edge you can probably bait panic pounds and punish with some really grimy stuff. I also think throw is really good, and dair > u-smash / grab is very solid as well. I think this would be a MU where bair wall is probably the optimal strat if you just want to win and have the mindset to do it though. Though I wonder if you could do it offensively by pressing them to the edge with movement / shield but that seems complicated (awkward offensive bair setup through movement into their bair / ducking bair?).
 

Bieber

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
164
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Up in the air
yeah i think a few people saw that happen at big house but since i didn't make bracket it probably mostly flew under the radar. i've also beaten a few other people that got 2nd seeds (trail, mdz, mafia) in the last month and i think i'd have the advantage over anyone 3rd seed and below EXCEPT for another puff or maybe some crazy jank like a young link player, so kinda surprised that i apparently got like 8th seed or something

thanks for the tips kk, i'm excited to get destroyed by you in pools :)
 

KanyeRest

bair-condtioned nightmare
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
585
Location
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
puff dittos? ewww

you got this bieber :denzel:

EDIT: looked back on this thread and saw both bieber and hbox complimented kaizer's person pitch avatar. my theory about puffs having great taste is true!
 

Prince_Abu

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
1,008
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Midwest
i think im pretty good at the puff ditto, basically all u do is space moves but remember dair to up smash is ur best friend
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
4,123
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Come By Chance Mews
lol i kinda like the ditto...but only for like...10 minutes per day at most

mentally i think the most important thing is to know when to switch between bair and fair. i mean, usually you should just bair, but fair is still faster. anytime you think you can catch them before they get a bair out, fair them quickly. it doesn't sound that good in text, but eventually even puff has to land, and jump + bair takes a while to come out. also, weak fair sometimes combos into strong fair.

uhh...grab a lot. puff can't do much out of shield and in puff dittos you both end up shielding a lot. nair is good vs. shielding puff too for the same reasons as always.

also watch out for strong uptilt at 0 ;_;
 

Landry

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
839
Hey, if anyone has some spare time could you explain to me what exactly ledge canceled aerials are and how to do them/how they work. I've tried to find info but I haven't really been able to find anything comprehensive.

That's one of the aspects of this game where I have no idea how it works...
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
uggh, i really dislike this new pool system. just serves to reinforce false conceptions of people's skill. The old pool system it didn't matter if everyone thought you were bad cause you could easily just wreck your pool even though you weren't seeded very well..now you get seeded against number 1 and have an autoloss making it very difficult to get out. It is top 4 get out, but I really think the old system was better
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Yeah, it's sad because one side of the bracket is just plain easier with the top players included so a mid level player might be put in a ****ty situation.

I mean Alex said that its not his favorite method but looking at the pools most of the people who should make it will but they have to be very serious. Melee it on me said they should have Auto seeded top players into bracket which seems like a good idea but its too late for that.

:phone:
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
Location
Kansas City, MO
Hey, if anyone has some spare time could you explain to me what exactly ledge canceled aerials are and how to do them/how they work. I've tried to find info but I haven't really been able to find anything comprehensive.

That's one of the aspects of this game where I have no idea how it works...
Ledgecancelling occurs when you have enough horizontal momentum that the friction of landing on the platform/stage near the ledge isn't enough to keep you on the platform/stage.
When you successfully execute one, you will not land and go into the standing animation, you will slide off the platform. The act of sliding off the platform resets your action state, so even if you're in the middle of a move when you hit ground, you can instantly start another move with no negative repercussions.

Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Marth, Luigi, Mewtwo, and Mr. Game and Watch all have good ratios of horizontal maneuverability to ground friction, making them arguably the best at using it effectively, not that there aren't other characters who can benefit from it.

The easiest way to start practicing this just to jump around the stage a lot. Try to land as close to the edge of the stage/platforms as possible and then when you're close to the ground, push the stick away from the platform. When done correctly, you will start the landing animation but not leave it by the time you get off the stage.

This might actually be the one instance where you are better off not L-cancelling, because it shortens the landing animation and gives you a smaller margin of error.

Also, I ****ing hate puff dittos. Hate hate hate them.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
Yeah, it's sad because one side of the bracket is just plain easier with the top players included so a mid level player might be put in a ****ty situation.

I mean Alex said that its not his favorite method but looking at the pools most of the people who should make it will but they have to be very serious. Melee it on me said they should have Auto seeded top players into bracket which seems like a good idea but its too late for that.

:phone:
yeah, i'm in favor of this. Auto-seeding players who made it into bracket last time and performed in the top half of the bracket or something would be reasonable reward and is pretty common in other e-sports. realistically Kirbykaze shouldn't be going through pools. even if he's off that day, KK on an off day is still not rank 129 or below
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
hbox, convince javi to team with you next time. Plup played really well, but the problem is their team composition lives too long
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
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Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Idea and Darc coming out of nowhere and almost beating Zhu. I was so happy (yet sad at the ending in the set with Darc; didn't see Idea play him). Word on the street is Puffs should always ban PS vs. him. lol
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Darc was hype, I thought he had it in the bag.

So mahone, how does beat armadas young link?

I get that hbox could go Marth and **** but then he'll either have to face Marth peach or young link puff. I think he should learn samus to keep him young link for awhile. All he needs to do is win 2 games then throw away one to cp characters.

:phone:
 

Bieber

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
164
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Up in the air
beat hyuga in the ditto, thanks to everyone for the tips and especially idea for practicing it a bunch with me at the tourney

good **** to idea darc and of course hbox for holding it down in bracket

got 2nd seed in my pool and then went 2 and out in bracket lol. campy fox :(
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Toronto, Ontario
He could do it. His shielding and movement were amazing. He needs mofo to train him. He looked like a top player playing ness while armada looked like a top ylink main. The little tricks and gimmicks seem like they'd help a lot.

How he got a million grabs with the worst grab in the game left me stunned but things like yoyo glitch, pk fire and thunder snipes and pk 2 mind games would help him a lot. Go watch mofo vs hax and imagine what hbox could do with that arsenal

Also, when he shielded a bomb and it hit armada in the face and he punished hard I flipped
:phone:
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
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Aug 31, 2005
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Jarrettsville, MD
I definitely agree he didn't look like a Ness main (I actually played his Ness myself). I disagree that Armada looked like a YL main though. He could have done a lot of stuff differently that would have led to him destroying Hbox. The thing that comes to my mind the most is using uair/dair properly. He was trying to play his Ness like a Puff by running away and throwing projectiles. Yeah, you should still throw projectiles, but when Ness is above or below you, you can just stick your sword out and get huge damage really safely. Hbox can definitely improve in the matchup (YYG, PK Fire, and PK Thunder are definitely things he should not use more of though...), but I think Armada will just practice vs. a Ness player in Sweden and be way too prepared for him next time.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
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Spiral Mountain
beat hyuga in the ditto, thanks to everyone for the tips and especially idea for practicing it a bunch with me at the tourney

good **** to idea darc and of course hbox for holding it down in bracket

got 2nd seed in my pool and then went 2 and out in bracket lol. campy fox :(
I ***** you so hard.
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
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Come By Chance Mews
o rly, darc played him too? how did that go? my set with zhu went like this:

- game 1, jiggs vs. falco, i think battlefield? he is slightly ahead for most of the game...last stock, he's at low percent, i'm at 80% or something, i somehow get an extended combo/techchase that ends in a rest and kills him.
- game 2, he counterpicks to stadium and goes fox, again it's pretty close and by the end we're both at around 150% on our last stock. we're both just really scared and spacing moves carefully, i accidentally roll (instead of a wavedash out of shield) and he has more than enough time to see it and bair me and take the game.
- game 3 he solidly 2-stocks me on yoshi's, again jiggs vs. fox. don't remember much about that match. we both agreed it was a really fun set afterward.

oh, and i banned FD. i'd rather play fox on stadium than FD. the one exception is colbol, he always destroys me on stadium for some reason :p

beat hyuga in the ditto, thanks to everyone for the tips and especially idea for practicing it a bunch with me at the tourney

good **** to idea darc and of course hbox for holding it down in bracket

got 2nd seed in my pool and then went 2 and out in bracket lol. campy fox :(
no problem :) you seemed pretty good at that matchup. not exactly sure why but you just kept hitting me first lol

haha, my entire bracket was fox. zhu, then milkman, then cyrain. in pools i only played one fox, but it was javi :p
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
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Toronto, Ontario
Darc first game got him 3 rest kills in under a minute and it was cute. Zhu definitely kicked it up a notch though and they went to 3 games.

Lol idea, what I got from thAt is you kept it really close and cp'd yoshis. I mean I love that stage too but was it really the best option at the time? Well wait...was he playing fix that match?

:phone:
 

idea

Smash Master
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well, i couldn't go to battlefield 'cause i won there, didn't want to go to stadium again, i banned FD, and i'm pretty sure he banned fountain since i would normally want to go there. so it was down to yoshi's or dreamland. kind of a toss up for me since i personally like yoshi's, and dislike dreamland against fox and falcon. but yeah maybe dreamland would have been better anyway, since zhu's fox is pretty aggressive.
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
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Toronto, Ontario
I don't like DSR+bans with so few stages...but whatever, you being you could have probably used yoshi's in your favour better than I. I mean, I love yoshi's and being a small stage, just hate quick usmash kills.
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
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Oct 8, 2007
Messages
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Toronto, Ontario
edit: nvm found it.

Lol sorry anand maybe I should've shared the link.

@idea I've always liked ys but never cp there out of fear. Won there twice, once was on my pick on sat after you said you actually brought zhu there. Definitely gunna go there more in certain situations.
 

el chupacabra

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
4
So, i posted something similar in the fox thread, but I've been thinking about jiggs:

I'm a noob, and probably wont be going to tournaments antime soon, but I'd like to get good. and be able to use advanced stuff (wavedashing, shuffling, etc.) effectively.

Where should I start with jiggs? combos or wavedashing? (obviously there's overlap, but you know what I mean)

Thanks in advance!
(If i posted this in the wrong place just let me know)
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
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Finland
Learn to space your moves so you can use them safely. That's the most important thing at first. Play it safe.
 
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