Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[ShroudedOne]

I mean, how will it harm you to keep him honest with grabs? Bair is kind of mediocre vs shields in general anyways, and once he starts shielding them and stops trying to CC them (I'm not entirely sure bair even beats his CC downsmash, but I'm not 100% sure on this), then where is she going to get mileage from?

You should elaborate on how it'll hurt to go for grabs. :| Aerialing shields doesn't seem like the best game plan to me (or hitting them in general, but this is more debatable).

Though obviously I'm not saying he should fish mainly for grabs, or solely for grabs. But grabs are pretty darn good.

 

[Mahone]

well i will elaborate, but i would like to point out that ur original post saying grab beats cc was lacking elaboration as well, so it was pretty easy to disagree with u since i had no idea when u thought grab was good (i.e. in what situation u would use it) and neither did he probably

the reason it can hut to keep him honest is that you have to be right next to him to grab him... people who aren't comboing into grab or being marth have a very VERY hard time grabbing... jiggs would usually have to either float or run at him without a hitbox out to get a grab


this is especially hard to do considering he is pilling to keep u away and that is what the main post said he was struggling with

i just linked the match showing how good bair is vs him, if u can keep him in shield and throw ones above his heads u are limiting a lot of his options and im not sure what u mean by it not beating cc dsmash since u could just time it rising or do it and then jump and not risk being hit, unless u mean he can take the bair and dsmash but that would only maybe work at like 0-7% and again it could be avoided by like hitting his head with the fully tipped bairs

also, ur grab is not even that good vs doc so u would only use it to keep him honest which is why im so confused by ur post...

the original poster said that he was having a hard time getting in and dealing with pills, so i dont see how ur main piece of advice to him would be to grab him since it beats cc...

to me that seems like ur assuming that hes already conditioned his opponent into shielding with those bairs that u say are bad and then on top of that ur assuming he's struggling with getting cced or not getting enough off of aerials...

if hes being impatient and not able to get though pills then i think the correct advice to give is what krynxe gave and the kind of advice bones gave, because even though it was wrong it had to do with dealing with pills...

also i dont really understand what u could mean by aerialing him in general is not good... what are u doing instead? killing him with grabs and smashes?

 

[idea]

from the little experience i have playing vs. doc, it seems like one of those unfortunate matchups where you should just bair more :/ it outspaces him and explodes pills, that's kind of all you need.

edgeguarding is really important because it's hard to get anything going in this matchup, and doc can't edgeguard jiggs ('cause who can?), so that's pretty much the easiest place to gain an edge over him.

as for grab...yeah, i can't see it being especially good in this matchup, that seems more like an individual player mixup thing. grab him when he's shielding too much, to make him stop shielding so much. though grab is good when it can lead to bthrowing him offstage. i'd be more worried about doc grabbing YOU.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

this is especially hard to do considering he is pilling to keep u away and that is what the main post said he was struggling with

Ever since the Falco discussion in the soc thread, I haven't had any issues using grabs to punish panic/auto-shielding. So yes, you are correct that my problem was specifically the ODing. And the gist of the advice was to trust in the heart of the cards bairs and spacing and be smarter about how I tried to get around them.

Sooo, yeah. Let's just embrace our common love of Smash, forgive each other, learn from our shared experiences, and promise not to be tactless or overly sensitive in the future.

 

[ShroudedOne]

The entire point of my post was just saying that because Doc likes to crouch cancel, grabbing occassionally for the position/keeping him honest is also a decent strategy. It wasn't advice directly pointed at him, but something more general when fighting Doc that I wanted to post.

Yes, bairing above him is good, and I *never* said it wasn't. I also didn't say using aerials was bad, but that Puff's aerials vs shields aren't anything special. That's IT. I guess I should've said that it wasn't specifically pointed to Ferris, but to Doc in general. My apologies for the bad advice.

 

[Prince_Abu]

no one cares about ur apologies go play peach and stop posting so much nublet

 

[ShroudedOne]

LOL what a guy

I love you too, Abu. <3

 

[Bieber]

doc is like the easiest character to edgeguard

just jump at him and nair. nair cuts through the pills, beats cape, stays out forever, and sends him at a pretty horrifying angle

i got to play shroomed for a few games at apex and this **** worked like every time

 

[Voltz]

Shoutouts to phantom rest and that Puff ditto Bones and M2k had.

 

[Bones0]

Shoutouts to phantom rest and that Puff ditto Bones and M2k had.

His tears taste delicious. Hope you guys weren't too embarrassed watching my Puff get 4-stocked repeatedly. lol The lasers... ughhhh...

 

[Prince_Abu]

how do u beat marth

 

[Mahone]

idk, i would post my thoughts but they are still the same as in my mu guide on the first page, i think its pretty thorough, not sure you're gonna get any better answer with your question since its so vague

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Don't get grabbed at 90%. Marth has guaranteed tipper stuff now off a grab at that percent.

 

[genkaku]

I feel like I can never get my puff to move quickly enough.

 

[Mahone]

its more about moving the first frame after u land and jumping the first frame after u throw out an aerial than it is about wavelanding or shielddropping or whatever the kids are doing nowadays... so focus on practicing that in training mode

oh also, its mostly about trained reaction time and knowing what to do because you've seen the situation before so just play a lot against different people

 

[Bones0]

Being able to WL, shield drop, and ledge cancel aerials doesn't hurt though. >.>

 

[genkaku]

I shield drop at every given opportunity as puff but only because it looks hilarious

 

[Bieber]

I feel like I can never get my puff to move quickly enough.

one thing darkatma told me to do that i found pretty helpful is to put a laptop or something on top of your tv, pull up a match of hungrybox (or mango, his puff still looks pretty fast even like 3 years later. this match is a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X86taM_xPE) and watch the match as you play a cpu. try mirroring hbox/mango's movement exactly. it forces you to move as fast as they are, and if you think about why they're moving the way they are you can even learn a thing or two

 

[genkaku]

thanks bieber. I was thinking about trying that this morning. I'll give it a go next time I play.

 

[hungrybox]

I think a lot of puff's don't realize that she has a fast wavedash and pretty good dashdance.

You don't have to spend the game mainly in the air. Crouch! Bait Marth into grabbing you by wavedashing towards him and then rest under his grab.

Once he stops trying to grab, he'll spend more of his time in the air.

THEN you can do the aerial fight by using that bair to it's advantage. It's about timing as much as it is about spacing.

Let him swing a few times, then attack.

The best way to kill marth is to get grabs on him. Grabs are phenomenal in EVERY matchup.

Back throw him off the stage, bair him once (more if you want the WoP) and then grab the edge.

At this point, DON'T even look at your character. Keep your eyes on the tiara'd ****** and watch him recover. When he is about to use his jump, quickly fall offf the edge and grab it again to restore your invincibility.

He will most likely Up-B through you and you can rest him when he lands on the stage OR just hold the edge and edgehog him.

 

[Tags]

Yeah I hate the stereotypes of people who think you just stay in the air and bair to play puff. Puff pretty much has a different play style against every character.

 

[Tags]

its more about moving the first frame after u land and jumping the first frame after u throw out an aerial than it is about wavelanding or shielddropping or whatever the kids are doing nowadays... so focus on practicing that in training mode

oh also, its mostly about trained reaction time and knowing what to do because you've seen the situation before so just play a lot against different people

Is shield dropping really useful for Puff? Never really tried it.

 

[AustinRC]

Shield drop rest I'd purdy fun!

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Is shield dropping really useful for Puff? Never really tried it.

It's a great reversal technique for every character. Uair works really well and just dropping out to reset position is good.

If they are right on top of your shield or you just want to be really ballsy you can rest out, but that's pretty situational.

 

[Keblerelf]

Yeah I hate the stereotypes of people who think you just stay in the air and bair to play puff. Puff pretty much has a different play style against every character.

my puff is better when grounded

 

[Kaizer]

Is shield dropping really useful for Puff? Never really tried it.

http://youtu.be/N-iMKNLJQyI?t=5m10s

 

[Tags]

http://youtu.be/N-iMKNLJQyI?t=5m10s

Oh **** that's cool rofl

 

[Demna]

Regarding Puff's rest. How does it work exactly? I usually Up-throw to Rest and sometimes Side-B > Jab1 reset to rest. However, I'm sure there are other ways of activating rest. I've heard that it can be activated upon hitting the opponent's hurtbox within a specific period of time. Can someone please give detailed explanation on Jigglypuff's rest please? Thanks.

 

[-LzR-]

It simply hits on frame 1 for a frame or 2 I'm not sure. You just have to be literally inside the opponent for it to work because the hitbox is like 1/3 the side of Puff if not less. That's all. No tricks.
It's just a small hitbox, it functions normally like other moves when it comes to hitting.

 

[BTmoney]

Get really close and rest like the dude said above. Just think of your body as the hitbox but it's inside of you. try to overlap them. Move hits only for 1 frame and that may sound strange but it stays out as long as a Fox/Falco shine so getting the rest to hit isn't that hard. Setting it up is the more difficult part

I'm not one to correct you -lzr- but I don't think the hitbox is that small, it seems to be more or less the same size of her body because I've seen some janky rests where puff would duck a whiffed grab and rest it with the outskirts of her body.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Massive]

Hitbox thread to the rescuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeee~!

That purple circle is rest.
It comes out in the first frame.
You are invincible for the first 26 frames of the rest animation, then very, very vulnerable for the remaining 223.

You can use Shyguys and Brinstar tendon-thingys to extend your rest range (like some kind of electrical current, try it!), but other than that there's no real trick besides getting your purple circle to intersect someone's hurtbox.

 

[Bones0]

Get really close and rest like the dude said above. Just think of your body as the hitbox but it's inside of you. try to overlap them. Move hits only for 1 frame and that may sound strange but it stays out as long as a Fox/Falco shine so getting the rest to hit isn't that hard. Setting it up is the more difficult part

I'm not one to correct you -lzr- but I don't think the hitbox is that small, it seems to be more or less the same size of her body because I've seen some janky rests where puff would duck a whiffed grab and rest it with the outskirts of her body.

But I could be wrong.

Crouching doesn't change where the hitbox is. Jiggs stands up on the first frame of Rest whether you were crouching or not, so when you duck a grab, even if you aren't intersecting with the opponent at all, you will still connect with them because the next frame you stand up and your hitbox looks like Massive just posted. It's very similar to crouching under lasers to PS them. You wait until the laser is above you so when you shield it comes out from the standing position and connects with the laser on the first frame.

 

[Demna]

What are you recommendations to get a rest to actually hit the opponent?

 

[Bones0]

What are you recommendations to get a rest to actually hit the opponent?

Get the hitbox to intersect with their hurtbox. It's that simple.

 

[Massive]

What are you recommendations to get a rest to actually hit the opponent?

Are you asking about rest setups? Because there could be pages and pages dedicated to that subject alone, it's all pretty subjective and situational.

 

[Prince_Abu]

rest setups

up throw rest on spacies
jab reset rest
crouch rest on marth sheik falcon grabs
up tilt rest on ppl
pound to rest sometimes
up air to rest on spacies (good vs falcos dair)
up air to rest on some other chars sometimes
nair to rest on ice climbers
down throw to rest on spacies if they DI in
rest ppls recovery (spacie side b, marths recovery, sheiks recovery on stage)

 

[BTmoney]

Well that's not what I was saying lol

 

[Demna]

Get the hitbox to intersect with their hurtbox. It's that simple.

I was mostly referring to attacks that can lead into Rest, aka setups.

Are you asking about rest setups? Because there could be pages and pages dedicated to that subject alone, it's all pretty subjective and situational.

Can you direct me toward those pages/threads please?

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Can you direct me toward those pages/threads please?

http://smashboards.com/threads/mah0nes-stuff-about-puff.298777/page-51

 

[Demna]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mah0nes-stuff-about-puff.298777/page-51

A thread that only focuses on Puff's rest