Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Massive]

Being that there really aren't that many people who frequent the puff boards, most rest setup info is scattered through these Puff Q&A threads as well as the social threads.

You can theoretically rest anyone anytime they're not in shield and have hurtboxes out. "Setups" is a bit of a misnomer too, since most of them are not true follow-through events (the ones that aren't are very well known/obvious) but simply chances for you to rest if your opponent DIs incorrectly or does something predictable.

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

^Yup

Once you play the character enough, you will start to see where you can get a rest in. Puff is a pretty slow character with not a lot protection at certain angles so sometimes the hardest part about getting a rest is actually recognizing a situation where you can set up the setups themselves.

Most of the rests I get are not from setups, but from mistakes of the other person (bad rolls, missed techs, spacie illusions, forced recoveries)

Abu's list is accurate but some are dependent on DI and hitting the right hitbox/timing.

 

[Tags]

If you want to practice rest combo set ups just go against a level 3 cpu. I think level 3s have the most human like DI. I usually just practice against Fox + Falcon. Floaties are the only characters that are hard to combo into rest.

 

[Tekk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmry7-B4FmU&list=PLiGo6P7UEo1i6zEuBkbYEgVOo7o29DDoa&index=6
Good falco matchup material

 

[Bieber]

yo tekk loving the chk chk chk tag

 

[Kaizer]

sometimes i feel the puff boards should be about music

 

[CyberZixx]

It's a shame how little posting goes on over here. I like Puff players.

 

[Krynxe]

I blame mahone

 

[knightpraetor]

first off, the most amazing thing from this tourney was hbox's sportsmanship!

also, I feel like foxes are getting away with a lot more upsmashes on jiggs these days. people need to learn to rest out of shield again, but i can accept that the timing is super hard. Maybe the foxes are just tipping every upsmash on shield, but I feel like there is no way that the fox is going to perfect space a wd from shield into upsmash on a jiggs that is floating down to the ground with full aerial mobility. I saw jiggs hit the shield on the upsmash a few times but without rest there is no real threat so they just keep doing it.

 

[Kaizer]

nah, i don't think it's the best counter to upsmash. if you shielded a upsmash, it's basically a free grab – which means a lot of hard punishes that's more favourable in terms of risk/reward. don't know if i understood you correctly tho.

gj getting 2nd, hbox.

 

[knightpraetor]

what you said is true, but it makes me wonder whether you watched the same matches as me. Hbox ate over 5 upsmashes while facing backwards, including at least 2-3 where the fox wd out of shield and upsmashed while he was zoning around the foxes shield. Near the end of the set hbox adapted and landed and shielded and baired the fox's upsmash, but the fox just continued upsmashing. That is why I don't think bair is a good enough punish to get foxes to stop upsmashing.

 

[Kaizer]

are you talking about the set against mew2king?

 

[Mahone]

m2k is very good at getting those upsmashes, i have always found that really hard about playing him, back like a year ago, you could bait them, but i remember he kept getting better at using them each time i played him and he was using them even better vs hbox

also, at the end when hbox shields it and bairs out, its because he was at 60% last stock or something and it would have just been a trade and he would have lost the match which is why he didn't rest it, i think that was the case another time too, so i think you're just wrong, especially since most of the upsmashes m2k is hitting are when jiggs is in the air, so im not quite sure why you are talking about shielding as a counter to it

i think its more important to just change the aerial spacing to avoid upsmash range and weave out farther sometimes into pound

 

[Mahone]

I blame mahone

ya im really sorry, i took a break for a while and got really really into poker, but i can't play online anymore anyway so i am trying to get into smash again

my region is just like SUPER dead, not like how people john or whatever, but actually pretty dead... like i live in nova and chu/chillin are still "active", but the last local was won by GIMR with plank's marth coming in 2nd, when just like a month ago, 1st was chu, 2nd chillin, 3rd vist, or something like that

the good players still go to some tournaments, but i don't feel like driving to maryland once every month to get to play people in like friendlies and then not play for a month again with anyone decent

and i don't really have anyone to play on weekdays because both the people i used to train with got legit jobs


I might just not play, but if i do, ill probably be recording everything i do and analyzing it a lot because thats the only way i'll be able to keep up without actually playing a lot, so that might lead to me like posting an analysis of my games on youtube or something and posting them here for feedback or something cool like that

 

[Krynxe]

sounds cool

I haven't been playing much either. Been swamped with other priorities. I'll get to it though, I still love me some smash

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah you're right mahone. most of the upsmashes were actually done with the jiggs in the air. He was definitely spamming it at some points, but since the best jiggs could punish it with was nair or bair I guess he can get away with it. However, WD oos into upsmash seems really good. Kind of surprised it hasn't been used much in earlier sets, but maybe it was and I just didn't notice

 

[Kaizer]

i feel that this is a huge problem in the fox-puff matchup tho, getting safely back to the stage. in lower percentages, approaching with aerials is relative safe. but this scenario is skewed in fox' favor at kill percentages. how should a puff ideally cope with such a situation? fox is only lethal if you are landing near him (out of jumps etc), you are challenging him (trading) or if your air movement is predictable (a mistake i tend to do is retreating in the air without changing directions; just going in one direction, and getting read and hit by a upair).

do any of you puffs have any thoughts about this subject?

i'm training hard for apex btw, and hopefully i'll have some videos up for analysis ^_______^ blink blink puffs

 

[Mahone]

ya, it usually just depends on the situation, sometimes, using platforms as a temporary landing is good, sometimes its just weaving farther away, sometimes you might have to airdodge, when you get vids up itll be easier to tell you how to avoid it

 

[knightpraetor]

mahone tell me about the recent xanadu you won. and next time tell me you're coming. i would have gone if i had known

 

[Krynxe]

resisting urge to make lewd jokes

good **** though mahone. I just started going back to weekly smashfests in my area starting yesterday, so I'll try to derust the puff. Might even bring my laptop and stream a bit if people have interest.

 

[Mahone]

well what happened was i didnt wanna drive an hour alone but i figured i would so i could get some vids and watch them

then i spent 2 hours in traffic, got there, and it was the first time in GIMR's life that he wasn't there so there was no recording

and then i decided to never go to a xanadu again

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Hey, I have a MM coming up with a supposedly really good DK. My gut instinct is that this MU is stupidly skewed in my favor and that I can **** DK up with crouch/wd/bair/rest/win as long as don't get above him or get grabbed. Is that correct or is this MU more subtle?

EDIT: I have a fair amount of experience in this MU from the DK side, so I know that his bair and uair should not be traded with and I know that I can't duck under his grab. I just don't see what he can do to me if I stay low and wd away from or shield all his approaches.

 

[Mahone]

no that mu is actually much harder if the dk knows what they are doing

watch out for that charge turnaround bair bs

upb oos caught me sometimes

idk, i think it is an easy mu, but only if u don't go in thinking its free and play really safe

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I beat Mahone around pretty badly with my DK, but the matchup is definitely a slight win for Jiggs.

 

[Prince_Abu]

talk about puff ditto

 

[Bones0]

talk about puff ditto

Don't fsmash the other Puff's shield on your last stock.

 

[CyberZixx]

That is a low blow.

 

[Bones0]

That is a low blow.

How about don't punish missed rests with another rest?

 

[Mahone]

Yeah, I beat Mahone around pretty badly with my DK, but the matchup is definitely a slight win for Jiggs.

rofl


puff mu is pretty simple, just copy ur opponents good strats

 

[Bones0]

rofl


puff mu is pretty simple, just copy ur opponents good strats

That was my mentality playing DK vs. your Puff. I was like "damn, this Hbox fanboy is just spamming bair over and over". Sure enough, the same strat works with DK. I obviously prefer to play legit, but the only way to fight cheese is with cheese.

 

[Mahone]

oh man, this guy is trying to use mindgames in MY THREAD

ive never played his dk guys, but know that if i did i would 4 stock it

 

[Bones0]

oh man, this guy is trying to use mindgames in MY THREAD

ive never played his dk guys, but know that if i did i would 4 stock it

$5 says I can take a stock off your Puff 2/3 games.

 

[Mahone]

hmm, ill bet 5 that i can 4 stock you for 1 game, i dont wanna try to do it for longer than that

 

[Bones0]

I meant P:M, btw.

 

[Mahone]

you wanna stay over at my house this weekend? i can probably pay half your gas, im not sure how much itd be

 

[Bones0]

you wanna stay over at my house this weekend? i can probably pay half your gas, im not sure how much itd be

You live in Reston now, right?

 

[Mahone]

ya, i live in reston 20190

 

[Mahone]

soooo, i have a lot of footage of me vs fox and ive decided to analyze it really thouroughly, which is a first for me, since i think ive only analyzed vids like 2-3 times before and didn't really go through them close to as much as I could have


but anyway, i was wondering if it would be helpful for me to record my notes about the games and upload it to youtube or post it here, or if no one would really care that much

and it would be like 3x the work to record myself and upload vids and stuff, so i don't really want to do it unless you guys think itd help a lot or are super bored

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Fox is a dumb MU. Yes please.

 

[Kaizer]

yes pls, 10 yes pls