- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Haha, I'm glad that you're still super cynical. But you're probably right....
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Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff
- Thread starter Mahone
- Start date
idea
Smash Master
Don't go high up, falcon really wants to get below you so he can upair and stuff. Also crouch a lot so he can't grab you. Also also try to do empty hop and land behind his shield and uptilt (it starts at jiggs' feet so it's good at shield poking).
Landry
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 839
Falcon is tough if you let him get grabs but killing him is honestly so easy. Even if you flub an edgeguard Falcon's linear recovery options usually give you a second chance anyway. You just really need to focus on converting hits into kills w/ bair chains, rests, etc.
Also, this is super obvious but anti-combo DI is very important against Falcon. Don't let yourself get kneed if you can avoid it.
Also, this is super obvious but anti-combo DI is very important against Falcon. Don't let yourself get kneed if you can avoid it.
I think I'm struggling most is when I actually get in and crouch. The falcon starts down airing and I'm forced to put up my shield. Other than when I get in I think I have a general gist of everything now though. Thanks a lot, and that's really interesting about puff's utilt Idea. I never knew that. I might actually have vids here pretty soon if anyone wants to critique my crappy puff lol.
idea
Smash Master
yeah, that's not so bad, if he dairs your shield you're still safe. basically i replace shield with crouch vs. falcon unless they specifically do anti-crouch strategies. but shielding is okay if you see him doing an aerial...the problem comes when you over-rely on shield and he starts grabbing you instead, since his grab leads to knee so reliably.
puff's uptilt is silly, it looks tame and you wonder how it ever amounts to anything, but it's exactly as good as it needs to be. speaking of falcon's dair, uptilt can trade with it if the falcon mistimes the dair. not the best choice but it still works from time to time. might be worth trying if you're at low percent and want to cheese them out of a stock
puff's uptilt is silly, it looks tame and you wonder how it ever amounts to anything, but it's exactly as good as it needs to be. speaking of falcon's dair, uptilt can trade with it if the falcon mistimes the dair. not the best choice but it still works from time to time. might be worth trying if you're at low percent and want to cheese them out of a stock
How can you play puff when puff has no bones?
arata18
Smash Cadet
Very good insight into the Puff VS Falcon matchup which I thouroughly enjoy cause I was trying out puff again and got stomped on a bit by Kamaji's falcon I let him get too many grabs in plus I didn't get any rests on him which is a real bummer cause they would have been very easy kills. At least on spacies you have low percent grab to upthrow to rest if they are not used to DI'ing it
idea
Smash Master
haha yeah...the easiest ways to rest falcon are either comboing from an up-hitting move, or after letting him up-b onto the stage
Bones0
Smash Legend
My name is Bones0. I was born to play characters with 0 bones.
Mahone
Smash Champion
we need more people in the chat!
pm/post ur skype names
pm/post ur skype names
FerrishTheFish
Smash Ace
My Skype name is the same as my SWF username, except all lowercase.
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Austin use it with a full hop if you think the bottom will hit them when they jump. Use it with short hop if you want to be relatively safe and to threaten a cross up. It also sets up for jab resets or fsmash if they don't tech or tech in place
Edit: remember it autocancels if you use it immediately so if you don't l cancel like me it's perfect
Edit: remember it autocancels if you use it immediately so if you don't l cancel like me it's perfect
Massive
Smash Champion
My most recent gleamings on the puff vs. falcon matchup are as follows:
Crouch and shield a few times to train them to dair your shield or do Falcon's relatively safe nair approach.
Stay low and wavedash towards falcon when he approaches, it will **** up his spacing and he wont hit you. You also gain a positional advantage that can let you punish his approach appropriately.
Always chase falcon off the stage. His horizontal recovery is fantastic and you need to stop it. If your % is low enough, his up-b will actually put you in a better position to punish than if you had let him land.
If you're a stock up or <20%, don't be afraid to force him onto the stage and rest him in recovery lag. Past 25-30% you risk getting KO punished.
If you get dthrowed, you're going to get kneed. You can rest him if you DI back and make him go for the cross-up knee, but it should only work once before they switch to uair.
Crouch and shield a few times to train them to dair your shield or do Falcon's relatively safe nair approach.
Stay low and wavedash towards falcon when he approaches, it will **** up his spacing and he wont hit you. You also gain a positional advantage that can let you punish his approach appropriately.
Always chase falcon off the stage. His horizontal recovery is fantastic and you need to stop it. If your % is low enough, his up-b will actually put you in a better position to punish than if you had let him land.
If you're a stock up or <20%, don't be afraid to force him onto the stage and rest him in recovery lag. Past 25-30% you risk getting KO punished.
If you get dthrowed, you're going to get kneed. You can rest him if you DI back and make him go for the cross-up knee, but it should only work once before they switch to uair.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Falcon stuff:
- Don't get above him if he can dash jump uair and get his uair out
- Crouch and inch towards him
- Intercept his heavy aerials with u-tilt, uair, or your side pokes
- D-throw traps to pin him are solid
- When he is airborne, using an empty SH to threaten him into DJing to go around the bair he thinks you are throwing at him and chasing it with DJ pound or uair is a good way to kill him
- His shield is garbage so he's probably either going to hold it a lot or move erratically (depends on what has happened). Be ready to land and then immediately jump again to cover roll, WD, and other juke space.
- Don't get above him if he can dash jump uair and get his uair out
- Crouch and inch towards him
- Intercept his heavy aerials with u-tilt, uair, or your side pokes
- D-throw traps to pin him are solid
- When he is airborne, using an empty SH to threaten him into DJing to go around the bair he thinks you are throwing at him and chasing it with DJ pound or uair is a good way to kill him
- His shield is garbage so he's probably either going to hold it a lot or move erratically (depends on what has happened). Be ready to land and then immediately jump again to cover roll, WD, and other juke space.
dudutsai
Smash Lord
KK: When would you use dthrow on falcon instead of any other throw? It seems like the worst choice to me.
Dthrow is the ****. If near the edge, they have to decide if they want to eat a rest/combo or get edgeguarded. If near platforms, it's the same except instead of an edgeguard it's a techchase into rest. In almost any situation on a nonFD stage Puff has solid followups from Dthrow.
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Yeah I know it has uses, but I wasn't asking about what they were, but why it would be better than another throw. Platform techchasing can be accomplished with uthrow. I think dthrow can be a lead to nothing quite often, especially if they are too low to go onto platforms and just tech away.
idea
Smash Master
sometimes dthrow is better at making him have to tech on a platform. especially above certain percents where he could just double jump to safety after upthrow. but upthrow at lower percents can lead into things like catching him out of his double jump with upair.
since you can do that shieldpoke uptilt thing so easily, you often don't even have to grab falcon. in practice i usually just grab him when bthrow will send him offstage.
since you can do that shieldpoke uptilt thing so easily, you often don't even have to grab falcon. in practice i usually just grab him when bthrow will send him offstage.
Bieber
Smash Apprentice
key to beating falcon is being faster than him
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If Falcon DIs the u-throw it doesn't lead to anything substantial AFAIK and his weight lags the throw animation so it's easier for him to DI. It's also generally more obvious when he's gonna be grabbed IMO but that's neither here nor there.
D-throw forces him to DI hard away or else he gets rested, uair comboed, or so forth. This means free forced techs. Falcon's defense sucks. This isn't rocket science. Positional traps, etc.
I've been noticing how Spacy players escape from puff when she lands into them with an aerial and is just out of grab range. A lot of the times I see them full jump and come down with an aerial. Would you jiggly players recommend that they short hop uair? I mean it would have to be a read I suppose but yeah what do you all think?
FerrishTheFish
Smash Ace
I'm no Puff expert, but I'd say that sh uair is pretty darn risky due to it coming out relatively slow and them having to get so close before it hits. It could probably be countered with utilt, possibly usmash, maybe even shield grab (unsure of the exact frame advantage of uair on shield). Fox and Falco are probably better off doing sh nair or dair (or bair, if the Puff is behind them). If we include Falcon in the spacie category, then sh uair is probably ok for him if he can space it.
The best option for Fox/Falco, though, is probably to just get away and reset the neutral game so they can camp and such.
mas_torque
Smash Apprentice
wouldn't a utilt be better for spacies if puff is behind fox/falco since it could set up anything in the air really easily?
FerrishTheFish
Smash Ace
The statement of the question seemed to imply that the Fox/Falco was in shield. Utilt is a stupid good move when it's an available option, yes.
idea
Smash Master
you should probably just wavedash away then punish them when they land. ideally with grab.
oh wait, were you asking what the space animal should do? that depends on lots of things like which way jigglypuff is facing, what character you are, how much shield stun there was, what you think jigglypuff is going to do next...
oh wait, were you asking what the space animal should do? that depends on lots of things
like which way jigglypuff is facing, what character you are, how much shield stun there was, what you think jigglypuff is going to do next...
Bones0
Smash Legend
I did this at my last tourney. It's so awesome because you just drift down gracefully after they get blown up by an ungodly fast OoS option. lol
mas_torque
Smash Apprentice
be ready to shieldgrab dem shffls. falcon can sneak knees into spots you aren't expecting. hell, you have to be wary of all of falcon's aerials even on the ground
Today I lost again against the Falcon. Any tips?
http://www.twitch.tv/germansmash/b/402241711
http://www.twitch.tv/germansmash/b/402241711
Translucent
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 20, 2012
- Messages
- 354
I basically just watched the first match and it seems that you could work on edge-guarding falcon, and a little bit more on your combos. When you're at kill percent, just be careful of the knee. Always know it's there, because it feels so bad to have a lead then watch it disappear because falcon just ran and kneed you.
idea
Smash Master
i'll watch that when there aren't several streams going on
Yeah he always gets me with the knee, pretty frustrating lol
idea
Smash Master
imo your biggest problem is movement. you always jump to get out of shield...and you often shield when you land after doing some aerials. it's very punishable, the falcon should have been grabbing you a lot more
you should wavedash out of shield muuuch more. also you shouldn't even be shielding very often against falcon. replace shield with crouch since it makes you hard to hit and impossible to grab...and only shield when what he's doing would beat your crouch. (once you start wavedashing more you can crouch + move toward him at the same time)
but yeah basically with the way falcon's moves and physics work, what he wants most is for you to jump high up into the air and put yourself in lag. which you kind of did a bunch of times
often when you died it was because you attacked with something laggy, he jumped just to see what you were going to do, then he had time to fall down and knee you. oh, that's another thing, it would help a lot to just be faster in general.
and...like we were talking about up there ^ you'll notice that when you upthrow him it usually doesn't lead to anything when he's taken some damage already. try using the other throws depending on the situation. if the edge is behind you always bthrow. though if i saw falcon in shield i would just land behind him and start uptilting anyway.
and yeah, complete edgeguards more.
you should wavedash out of shield muuuch more. also you shouldn't even be shielding very often against falcon. replace shield with crouch since it makes you hard to hit and impossible to grab...and only shield when what he's doing would beat your crouch. (once you start wavedashing more you can crouch + move toward him at the same time)
but yeah basically with the way falcon's moves and physics work, what he wants most is for you to jump high up into the air and put yourself in lag. which you kind of did a bunch of times
often when you died it was because you attacked with something laggy, he jumped just to see what you were going to do, then he had time to fall down and knee you. oh, that's another thing, it would help a lot to just be faster in general.
and...like we were talking about up there ^ you'll notice that when you upthrow him it usually doesn't lead to anything when he's taken some damage already. try using the other throws depending on the situation. if the edge is behind you always bthrow. though if i saw falcon in shield i would just land behind him and start uptilting anyway.
and yeah, complete edgeguards more.