Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[Wake]

Just hold left or right when Puff throws you up.

 

[BairJew]

I'm so bad at spacies mu's with puff, just started playing her and I thought I understood what I was supposed to do but I got ***** by every fox/falco I played. Is there a mindset which I should be using in those mu's or any tricksies that are used to gain an upper hand?

 

[Mahone]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=113022

drill rest post

 

[GrazzaB]

I play a lot against my friend who plays falco, and something that helps a lot is wavedashing away when he approaches, as that leaves him vulnerable for a whole bunch of things. I assume the same can hold for fox, assuming they are being aggressive.

If they are lazer camping then its just a gay matchup.

 

[BairJew]

My friend/s who sometimes play spacies, occasionally, do a mixture of campy & aggro which is sometimes easy to predict an approach or bait a grab-> rest . But lately it seems like I may be doing things too predictably. Is there a sort of way in which you should incorporate other aerials in these mu's when you are bair spacing?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Try to fish for up airs when they're jumping around above you

I think it's okay to fish for Pound but only sparingly

Her sex kicks are weird but you can cover certain pathways and spaces with them for a longer duration than you can with bair, thus enabling you to re-position in ways that are not possible (or as efficient) with bair

 

[BairJew]

So is another good idea to force them to shield with bairs around or on their shield then to use pound to pressure the shield and get behind them?
I'm just having a lot of trouble with jiggs lately, idk what I'm doing wrong. I hope to post some videos up and ask for critique from this thread soon.

 

[Krynxe]

No, they could just shffl bair oos.

Actually, they'd probably have enough time to drop their shield, [turn around] and smash attack you if they wanted

Also they'd have to be stupidly shield-locked in the first place to even let you pound at their shield after retreating from a bair, considering how slow pound is to come out.

Also KK speaks the truth. Remember not to try to uair just whenever someone's above you because they're usually aware of your uair/utilt/etc and are going to do something with more priority and/or try to be safe. Usually it's best to catch people as they jump, such as a shffl uair when you're behind someone's shield to catch them jumping oos, etc.

 

[idea]

definitely don't pound their shield. what you want is to use bairs/other aerials to make them shield, then grab them. alternatively if grabs don't lead to much on the character you can go behind their shield and try to shieldpoke with uptilt. often grabs are good anyway just to make them use shield less.

honestly you should almost never use pound (except to recover). it's pretty situational.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Also KK speaks the truth. Remember not to try to uair just whenever someone's above you because they're usually aware of your uair/utilt/etc and are going to do something with more priority and/or try to be safe. Usually it's best to catch people as they jump, such as a shffl uair when you're behind someone's shield to catch them jumping oos, etc.

Uair actually cuts through most aerials above it, but the timing is tricky.

One of the real keys is to recognize when they're trying to bait your uair and then transition into a more horizontal positioning. If you can catch those, then you can toss pounds, bairs, etc. at them as they're moving away from what they think is an up air and then counter them pretty hard.

 

[Bieber]

hey guys, so the fc stagelist went up today (http://www.zettagaming.com/meleefc/) and there are a few pretty janky stages on there

mute city and brinstar are legal which make my puff go

but so are mushroom kingdom 2 and jungle japes, and I don't think I've played on jungle japes since I ran through all-star mode that one and only time back when I was 9 or whatever

so if there are any puffs out there that know anything about those two stages, if they're good/bad for puff, what MUs they're decent for, any stage tricks or anything, lemme know?

 

[idea]

WHAT

I'm taking everyone to mushroom kingdom 2.

 

[crush]

bieber i met ur friend

 

[idea]

i know this is way late by now but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z07CzxeXMVs&feature=g-vrec&t=28m47s

28:47 (it screws up the time skipping thing on such a long video lol)

you told me at apex that the only reason you weren't doing this all the time is that you didn't want armada to tech it. but i don't think he could have teched this. and come to think of it, i think other characters usually can't tech it either...


edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25S-oZmm4nY&t=37s

or you can do this, he appears to be above the stage when it hits.

 

[boomrested]

Shoutouts to Tekk for the funniest combo I've seen in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hi2RRcNOk#t=9m15s

Randall opens up the best options ever.
Edited because iPod was being stupid with the link.

 

[Mahone]

wtf did u just link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hi2RRcNOk#t=9m15s

 

[Massive]

wtf noise is jigglypuff making in that video.

It sounds like she's just saying "bean" over and over again.

 

[boomrested]

It's the sound she makes in PAL version. All the noises are better in PAL.

 

[Massive]

It's the sound she makes in PAL version. All the noises are better in PAL.

If jiggs had made that noise in the version I play, I probably would've stayed a Sheik main.

 

[KrIsP!]

lol

rondoudou!

 

[FoxLisk]

lol

rondoudou!

rondoudou!

 

[KirbyKaze]

do you guys need to dash jump out of up throw to hit the uair when Fox DIs up throw in front of Puff?

 

[idea]

i don't think so but interesting thought...were you testing something?

 

[KirbyKaze]

No just curious

 

[boomrested]

This has probably been discussed a lot before, but what should I do against a super campy dash dancing fox? Whenever it happens, I just get grabbed a lot. Should I just counter camp with bairs?

 

[FoxLisk]

This has probably been discussed a lot before, but what should I do against a super campy dash dancing fox? Whenever it happens, I just get grabbed a lot. Should I just counter camp with bairs?

DD camping basically beats puff.

you have to pressure him such that you can predict his jumps and hit him out of them, basically. if you let him cross you up too easily or predict your movement too much you'll just either lose the war of attrition or get punished too hard.

so... basically you have to play better than him - the things to look for are ways to trick him into committing when he thinks he can get you but actually being safe (and then punishing him for it), and intercepting him while he tries to crossover to get back to safety.

 

[knightpraetor]

learn to pressure well, prevent the crossover, profit.

dash dance camping by itself cannot beat puff..it's good for getting kills though.

 

[idea]

you gotta make him stop dash dancing somehow =/

gradually close in on him, and focus on avoiding getting grabbed. the default thing is dash dance against jiggs then run and grab her when she lands, so you gotta be really careful about how you come back down to the ground.

so yeah, cover your landing, ideally by jumping and doing something right away (wd back is alright at first but he'll just start overshooting the grab) while slowly reducing the space in which he can dash dance.

basically this is fox saying "no YOU make the first move, *****"

 

[boomrested]

I was watching some old King videos, and noticed that he used pound pretty much every 5 seconds. Tbh I don't know how he ever won a game. That 2006 metagame, I guess.

 

[Mahone]

lol, its cuz king was so **** he could combo rollout into rest

 

[knightpraetor]

"gradually close in on him, and focus on avoiding getting grabbed. the default thing is dash dance against jiggs then run and grab her when she lands, so you gotta be really careful about how you come back down to the ground."

nothing mahone did in terms of closing in on me ever made me stop dash dancing (unless i was at the edge of the stage)...what made me stop chasing him was him landing and baiting me with retreating aerials and then using lots of jumps and then finally when i think i can go in and chase him down with the grab he has no lag and either hits me in the face or throws me off stage.

honestly if jiggs is closing in on you safely i just switch to nair/bair though..so maybe it will wreck them if they really are planning to dash dance camp no matter what..

as for me, i basically like to engage low jiggs that is approaching, like to camp retreating low jiggs, and like to dash dance camp high jiggs/ use FH nairs on high jiggs.

it sounds really simplistic, but that is kind of the basic engagement strategy i use. obviously it's a lot more complex as it often depends on the spacing between you as to what toys you have to play with, but I definitely think it's important for the jiggs to realize that her grab is a million times better than fox's so if you really know he's over abusing dashdance grab you just need to get 1/3 as many grabs and wreck them for being predictable even once.

of course in reality most of the time you won't be ablet o get a grab but can just stuff them with bair..but a good hard read just once will stop that dashdance camping

 

[iRobinhoood]

Maybe it's just me but I notice when a lot of recovering puffs use pound they rise a little in the animation. I tend to just go directly horizontal with very little vertical movement. How is this accomplished?

I also seemed to get grabbed a lot out of my aerials. I attribute this for one I'm new to puff and still a beginner smasher. I'll come in with a fast falled nair onto a shield try to hit the L-cancel and go straight for a grab but it rarely works. Tough to describe without video proof.

I'd like to use jab, but once my enemy catches on that my jab is only 2 hits before a HUGE pause before I can jab again, not good.

 

[knightpraetor]

trying to grab shields with puff after aerials isn't going to work. land out of range, then either guess their movement from shield or run in and grab them after a second.

 

[iRobinhoood]

What about jab?

 

[Mahone]

Maybe it's just me but I notice when a lot of recovering puffs use pound they rise a little in the animation. I tend to just go directly horizontal with very little vertical movement. How is this accomplished?

I also seemed to get grabbed a lot out of my aerials. I attribute this for one I'm new to puff and still a beginner smasher. I'll come in with a fast falled nair onto a shield try to hit the L-cancel and go straight for a grab but it rarely works. Tough to describe without video proof.

I'd like to use jab, but once my enemy catches on that my jab is only 2 hits before a HUGE pause before I can jab again, not good.

you can pound while angling upwards, or a possibly easier way, is you can pound by hitting side and b, then quickly move the stick from horizontal to up

don't try to combo into grab with her aerials, what you wanna do is just space ur aerials so you can't get grabbed like whats happening now...

you can try land behind their shield occasionally and uptilting, because they can't grab or do other good stuff when ur on the back of their shield

the jab won't work, it is very weak and good players will just crouchcancel it or do what you said and **** you

Sometimes you can get aerial to jab/grab to work, but not until you understand her shield pressure better. for now i would just recommend you weave out your aerials so you are safe.

 

[FoxLisk]

the jab won't work, it is very weak and good players will just crouchcancel it or do what you said and **** you

Sometimes you can get aerial to jab/grab to work, but not until you understand her shield pressure better. for now i would just recommend you weave out your aerials so you are safe.

wait what? i thought jab combod into rest

 

[knightpraetor]

i'm dumb; i realized Idea's post was basically agreeing with mine in the most important points. i just hate the idea of jiggs approaching just because fox is dashdance camping..you can camp back while taking space incrementally. just be ready when he comes in..and if he doesn't come in he just runs out of space and then dies to bair

 

[Mahone]

just updated the guide... didn't change much of the content, just polished up some stuff, probably no more than 10 sentences total...

i did however change the formatting and color scheme... i think its more readable now, but who am i kidding...

no puffs are left to read any of this

i think the only puff that cares about getting better is tekk atm... these boards are really dead nowadays...

only one puff in bracket at zenith even though she's a top five character, oh well

 

[KrIsP!]

Mahone don't get all pessimistic on us now.

 

[Mahone]

Ya, i figured it would sound pretty bad the way i worded it... but i mean, i still updated the guide and I am still trying hard to get better, so it's not really affecting me, i was just making an observation