Mafia All Stars: In the end, it was Nothing Special

[Xivii]

Wont be able to post until tomorrow morningish.

Posting this to avoid prod.

 

[giraffelasergun]

I have received my role and am catching up. I'll probably make my first post tomorrow afternoon/evening.

 

[Overswarm]

*dodges prod*

 

[Nicholas1024]

Argh this game moves slow sometimes.

@Frozenflame, Zen, Macman, Mentos, Lion, and Xatres
Post something. Every single one of you has less posts than the mod. That's ridiculous.

 

[Praxis]

Whaaaat?! No no no no don't suggest who the doc should protect! =x The doc should protect whomever they think will be the best asset to the town. They should also keep it completely random so scum will not be able to guess correctly. Rawr! Idk if I should be protected there is probably someone better >.> Again, Doc's discretion first.

Second this. That was horrible town play. I don't blame OS for being all over Nich after seeing that.

Game plan for D1: Lynch BSL/GLG (giraffelasergun). I'm really not too keen on what GLG has to say but maybe we should hear what GLG has to say in response to the evidence presented against BSL and to possible claim however I am really set on GLG=Scum and is the play toDay. Today (being Tuesday 11/2) we should lynch BSL. We will have solid info in which we can go off of D2. Plus now the day is even threatened to end by a mod-kill.

BSL is @ L-5. Needs more votes ASAP.

Is this correct?

@ mod request votecount

 

[Nicholas1024]

Praxis, PR directs aren't exactly uncommon here on smashboards. All I'm doing is telling the doctor that I think he should protect J. I have no control over what the doctor does, can't force him to do it in any way, I'm just merely giving my opinion. And me directing the doc has absolutely nothing to do with why Overswarm dislikes my playstyle. Note that nobody else has really attacked me for it. (Yeah, a little appeal to majority there, so sue me.) Anyway, could you give us a little more input? You know, on BY, Overswarm, etc?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

*dodges prod*

Really? And just after I went after you for doing this?

 

[Overswarm]

Really? And just after I went after you for doing this?

Yup. I'm gonna be dancin' til a flip. Too many people not posting and replacing and not enough actual content combined with too many pages = meh. OS doesn't want to do it.

I'll contribute more solid mafia stuff after the flip. For now I'm just going to call Nich on his bull**** and dodge prods. I've still contributed more to the game than other people, and I'm open about prod dodging. You can try to lynch me if you want, I don't really care one way or the other. I don't plan on replacing out (enough people doing that already) but don't feel like swallowing this whole game at the moment. So, I wait for a flip.

tl;dr

So sue me.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yay for dodging the question. Three things, Overswarm.

1) What case?
2) Who says you have to read everything in one sitting? I've caught up before by reading little bits here and there. And checking your recent posts, you have plenty of those little timeslots.
3) Why don't you just refute my argument instead of telling people to ignore me? Oh that's right, you can't.

Answer the questions, OS. You don't need a reread for that.

 

[Kirby King]

Day 1 Vote Count
Lionel Luthor (3): frozenflame751, Gheb_01, Macman
giraffelasergun (3): J, Praxis, SwordsRbroken
Sephiroths Masamune (2): Overswarm, Xatres
Blue Yoshi (2): Nicholas1024, giraffelasergun
Overswarm (2): X1-12, Sephiroths Masamune
Nicholas1024 (1): Blue Yoshi

Not voting: mentosman8, Lionel Luthor, Zεη, Ryker

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

The deadline is Thursday, November 4 at 11:59:59 PM.

 

[Praxis]

Praxis, PR directs aren't exactly uncommon here on smashboards.

But they're incredibly unnecessary in this case. Let the doctor choose his protect target at his own discretion. If scum know who the doctor is going to protect, then they get free reign to kill whoever they want.

Same goes for all of the power roles. This is D1. Directing the power roles is useful only if there is a purpose behind it, say to clear a player. In the blind situation we're in, we shouldn't be doing it.

 

[#HBC | J]

we only have 2 days to lynch someone and the votes are so scattered....wtf at this. T~T They are also almost scattered evenly...

We seriously need to pick someone....now. I want GLG but I wanna be fair and give him time to post kindof since I know that feeling of replacing into fire

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I'll probably change back to GLG since my OS wagon isn't going anywhere. I'll wait for his post though.

 

[Kirby King]

Lionel Luthor has been prodded.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yikes, didn't realize deadline was so soon. I guess I'll have to hope that vig knocks off BY then.

Unvote, Vote: GLG

 

[#HBC | J]

what makes you so confident there is a vig? I know in a game this size there is a possibility but you said that with such confidence...=x

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Not to give myself activity johns, but I got like 2 hours of sleep last night (I really did. I kept being woken up and finally actually fell asleep at 7am, then woke up at 9am for work), and now just finished a 9.5 hour work shift. I really don't feel like reading posts right now (if anything, I'll probably fall asleep while reading... I nearly fell asleep at work lol).

I have the entire day off tomorrow, so I'll be more useful then. Though that said, I'm at a smash fest later that evening, but that's no excuse for the entire afternoon. So... yeah, I'll be more useful tomorrow lol.

 

[X1-12]

Yikes, didn't realize deadline was so soon. I guess I'll have to hope that vig knocks off BY then.

Unvote, Vote: GLG

what about LL?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

lmao @ Nick accusing me of trying to divert attention away from wagons when when I voted for Lionel, the strongest two wagons were at 4 and 3 votes respectively.

How do you not understand that I was trying to get some pressure on a blatantly anti town player while we still have a good 4-5 days before deadline? If you're trying to tell me that you can't put together a solid wagon together and put pressure on a player and get response sin FIVE DAYS you are ****ing ludicrous.

Whatever though, as much as bullheaded OS is being bullheaded and distinctly unhelpful, I can sympathize with his reasoning. This game is just a giant cluster**** what with the rampant inactivity and replacements. It needs to be thinned before we make any significant forward progress. Despite this being a reasonable justification for his behavior though, I can't tell if he actually believes that he has no reason to contribute, or if he's just using the best justification he can think of for just not really contributing at all. That'll require more analysis later though.

Point is, anyone who is hating on OS should be hating on Lionel much more considering OS is just diet Lionel. LL has explicitly stated he has no reason to contribute and refuses to do so. He didn't even explain when he would started playing. He's just like, "lol **** this game". How does that not warrant pressure? Brofist @ Gheb and Mac for being like the only two people who aren't being distracted by all this tunneling nonsense and general chaos and know how to pressure actually genuinely scummy players.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

LL or GLG can die, IMO.

My vote is on GLG right now, will switch it to LL if needbe.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd much rather have glg in D2 than LL. Just in case anybody cares.

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb or FF can decide where my vote goes, whoever tells me first.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

LL because he's an OS poser and that type of behavior shouldn't be condoned.

One OS is enough, we can't handle any more LavOS spawns.

lolcwutididthere

 

[Overswarm]

I did.

Who am I voting for, Flame?


I think you of all people would have picked up on it by now.

 

[Xivii]

We had this disagreement in another thread as well.

Look, if everyone posts "town reads" and they all line up, then when a NK happens, there is nothing to read in to from the NK. Scum had a list of town's most trusted, and picked whichever of them they felt was most likely to not have doc protection. No other information gleaned.

NKs can be prevented also.

If, however, scum has to instead pick their kills on who they perceive might be a power role, you can read in to that. Find someone who spoke similarly and wasn't killed, and they might be scum.

Or, perhaps, if scum kills someone for tunneling another player. They could be trying relieve pressure, or frame that player...all interesting discussion points you can get reactions from others on.

In Bioware, I tunneled like, nearly the entire scum team on D1, and they killed me during the night; the following day we got the mafia godfather lynched off of my statements. In another game I recall, scum killed a player D1 because the last thing he did was make a case on another player, and killing him would make that player look suspicious. All of these have at least some kind of information- even if it is WIFOM- that you can then discuss and glean information either from it or from people's reactions.

Much better than handing scum a list to kill people from regardless of their connections to the player cast.

I don't think one person, especially someone who is scummy is going to make scum think that the majority of town thinks that person is town. And even if scum do kill from that, there are connections that can be made. Any kill could be WIFOM. Like if Person A said he thinks person B is town, but person B really is scum. Scum could kill person A to give person be some pseudo cred. Plus knowing who some people like is as real as a connection as know who people dislike. I just haven't seen how this is actually true.

Evidence -> Conclusion -> Conclusion -> WIFOM

^^^

Argh this game moves slow sometimes.

@Frozenflame, Zen, Macman, Mentos, Lion, and Xatres
Post something. Every single one of you has less posts than the mod. That's ridiculous.

The mod is hella active tho O.O

Praxis, PR directs aren't exactly uncommon here on smashboards. All I'm doing is telling the doctor that I think he should protect J. I have no control over what the doctor does, can't force him to do it in any way, I'm just merely giving my opinion. And me directing the doc has absolutely nothing to do with why Overswarm dislikes my playstyle. Note that nobody else has really attacked me for it. (Yeah, a little appeal to majority there, so sue me.) Anyway, could you give us a little more input? You know, on BY, Overswarm, etc?

_-_ are you serious dude. That was super random. Why TF would you even feel the need to say that? Cop Directs and Vig Directs can be useful, but a doc direct is completely ****. I originally had a town read on you based on your tunnel aggressive meta, but you can die. Your Blue tunneling looks so fake. I don't think even you would feel so strong on somebody for such stupid reasons.

vote: Nich

@J: Nich > Swords > BSL > LL

 

[Nicholas1024]

So Zen, you spend the first half of your post saying that "townlists aren't bad", despite them potentially telling scum who to NK... and then yell at me for directing the doc? Are you seriously saying it would have been better for me to go

Super ultra townie list:
1) J
etc.

And please, tell me how attacking someone for being a liar is faulty. (Not to mention the skimming and oh-my-gosh-you-suck.) You've insulted me and said my reasons are bad, but you've not once said WHY.

The reason I directed the doc to protect J is because he seems to be the most intelligent person in this entire blasted game with the most connections and the most likely town, and I don't want him dead come D2.

As a complete sidenote, this is the first time I've ever wished a game was in the BIM format. Too much scum...

 

[Xivii]

Directly directing a doc target is stupid because then what does scum do? NOT TARGET THAT PLAYER. Someone still dies.

Indirectly directing a doc target is ok. The doc can speculate who scum will target. Protect that player. No one dies.

Town gets an extra lynch. Scum loses a NK. But the more you talk about it, the more you allow scum to out wine the doc.


Why your reasons for Blue are dumb:
-You don't know if he skimmed. You're just saying that he is lying. You guys are just going back and forth on this. Your arguing over whether or not he did something or not.

Nich: You went to bed at 8:00 last night.
Blue: No I didn't.
Nich: Well were are at home and it was night time so you must have gone to sleep then.

That's how I see your argument.


-I've never seen omgus as a reliable scum tell. I've been town many times and have found someone suspicious because they vote me for such bogus reasons that it looks planted.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Wish I had the time to go through you and find out what you've been hinting at but I don't atm so I'll here's my best stab at it.

Basically you are currently voting for Sephiroth's Masamune, but that's only because you didn't unvote like the rules say you have to when you tried to vote for J. Otherwise, your vote would be there I think.

Right now though, you should be voting for Lionel Luther, as per my advice.

So yeah, Overswarm, your vote should be on Lionel Luther.

*waves hand in Jedi mind trick fashion*

 

[Overswarm]

vote lionel luther

 

[Nicholas1024]

Directly directing a doc target is stupid because then what does scum do? NOT TARGET THAT PLAYER. Someone still dies.

Indirectly directing a doc target is ok. The doc can speculate who scum will target. Protect that player. No one dies.

Town gets an extra lynch. Scum loses a NK. But the more you talk about it, the more you allow scum to out wine the doc.

There's just two things wrong with that.

1) I don't have control over the doc. Your whole argument implies that I somehow have jedi mind trick power over the doctor. Well guess what: I DON'T. One person isn't all of town, genius.

2)Even if all of town DID tell the doc "Protect X", it opens things up to a WIFOM game. Scum likely won't target X because they think the doc will protect X, so the doc can protect Y instead and maybe get a success.

Why your reasons for Blue are dumb:
-You don't know if he skimmed. You're just saying that he is lying. You guys are just going back and forth on this. Your arguing over whether or not he did something or not.

Nich: You went to bed at 8:00 last night.
Blue: No I didn't.
Nich: Well were are at home and it was night time so you must have gone to sleep then.

Really? There was several pages of flavor discussion about the fool thing and Gaston from disney mafia, the role PM was even QUOTED IN THE THREAD, and blue yoshi comes in asking "Was anyone ever in a game where you had to make fun of praxis?" Seriously, what other evidence do you want?!?

That's how I see your argument.

Insert dumb or scum question here. (Hint: Zen usually isn't dumb)

-I've never seen omgus as a reliable scum tell. I've been town many times and have found someone suspicious because they vote me for such bogus reasons that it looks planted.

I don't usually care about it much either, it's just one more thing to top off the list of scummy stuff he's done. The thing is, what else has he done all game?

One more thing Zen, place your vote on someone who might actually get lynched today. Deadline's approaching FAST, and we don't need a no-lynch.


@Anyone who actually listens to me once in a while.
I'm thinking a BY-OS-Zen scumteam here. It just fits.

@Lynch for today
I'd really like one of the 3 people I mentioned above gone, but deadline's approaching, and the LL wagon seems to be the most likely to lead to a lynch. Plus, LL has been pretty anti-town and useless in his own right, so...

So,

Unvote, Vote: LL

 

[X1-12]

I'm thinking a BY-OS-Zen scumteam here. It just fits.

If the deadline wasn't so close, what order do you think these should be lynched? If any of them flipped town would it change your mind about the other 2?

 

[Nicholas1024]

If the deadline wasn't so close, what order do you think these should be lynched? If any of them flipped town would it change your mind about the other 2?

I think I'd take BY first, because he's the main reason I'm looking at the other two (OS would be second BTW). If he flipped town, I'd back off of Zen completely and OS to a lesser extent. If Zen/OS flipped town, I'd still be on BY though.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Since all your posts are dulicates of each other with the exact same argument, I'll take a recent post that seems to have the most points in it:

About BY:
It's not BY skimming that I dislike about him. It's how he
a) Lied about it. All the evidence points to him skimming. For him to just go "You liar, I didn't skim" doesn't hold water. I wouldn't have made a big deal about it if he said "Whoops, missed that, my bad." However, instead he is vehemently denying he didn't skim despite the evidence otherwise. I think he noticed how I was going after Seph for skimming, and he wanted to avoid the heat.
b) Has been Oh-my-gosh-you-suck attacking me for pointing out his FAIL. (He was on J as well until J backed off). I mean, he asked the group if I usually tunnel like this, the group reply was a unanimous YES, and he just ignored it.
c) One last point, he hasn't responded to my last post about him that PROVED he skimmed.

[...]

@Blue Yoshi
Tell me, do you have ANY reasons behind voting me? (Aside from me showing you to be a liar, that is.)

First off, can you re-post your post that "proved I skimmed"? I went back several pages (from the post I quoted from you) and did not see it. So... if I don't accidentally answer it in this post (lol), I'll answer it next post.



Anyways, I'll give you my entire mindset from the start of your "blue yoshi skimmed" argument.

At first, you came and attacked me that I skimmed. Having not skimmed, I initially find you suspicious. J comes along and posts I skimmed as well, so, like you, I find him suspicious as well. I then re-read the posts that you two are accusing me of skimming on, then realize that I mis-worded my post, making it sound like something completely different. In it's mis-worded state (and taken out of context), I could see reasons why you both thought I was skimming. I explain the situation, stating that it was simply a mis-wording, and showed that in context, the reworded question fit the rest of the post at all, while the mis-worded post doesn't fit the rest of the post at all. I state that taking the one question as it was out of context completely changes it's meaning, and state what I intended to have meant. J (I believe) understood the confusion/miscommunication. However, you haven't stopped. Moreover, you have continued to attack me based off of the mis-worded question, taking it out of context, and using it against me, even though I clearly stated several times that the question was simply mis-worded (and frankly doesn't even fit the post at all).

So... the reason I stopped going for J when he stopped going for me wasn't because he stopped going for me. As I said, I could understand where there could have been miscommunication or a misunderstanding on both of your parts, and when I explained myself and cleared up the confusion, he stopped going after me for those reasons.

The reason why I am still going for you is because you still have not stopped going for me, even though I have perfectly stated that the one question you use against me was mis-worded, and when used out of context, completely changes the meaning of the post.



To re-state it again, here is the post that you keep attacking me with:

The title of the mafia game says:

Mafia All Stars: D1: You Fool [10 of 18, 11/4]

so... I'm assuming this means that 10 of 18 people have made a joke about Praxis. So that said, seeing as this is being kept track of, there must be something significant about it.

I'll assume it's something bad... but anyways, has anyone played a game where there was something like this to be done (e.g. make fun of Praxis)? And if so, was there a consequence, and if so, what was it?

So I mis-understood the title (several other players have said they mis-understood it as well). But essentially, I make a post stating that some people have yet to make fun of Praxis, and I mis-take the title for the 10/18 as the number of people who have made fun of him, as in, the mod is keeping track of this. IIRC, no one made a post suggesting that everyone should make fun of Praxis, nor did anyone make a post suggesting something bad might happen if some people did not make fun of him.

I then ask:

I'll assume it's something bad... but anyways, has anyone played a game where there was something like this to be done (e.g. make fun of Praxis)? And if so, was there a consequence, and if so, what was it?

As I have said, this was mis-worded, which changes the entire meaning of the post. Here was my re-worded question in another post:

Has anyone played a game where the entire group was supposed to do a task (in this case, make fun of Praxis), and if so, what was the consequence for if everyone did or did not do it?

Put in that question instead of the other question, and the post makes perfect sense, and the post goes perfectly with the question.

So basically this is what I meant to say:

The title of the mafia game says:

Mafia All Stars: D1: You Fool [10 of 18, 11/4]

so... I'm assuming this means that 10 of 18 people have made a joke about Praxis. So that said, seeing as this is being kept track of, there must be something significant about it.

Has anyone played a game where the entire group was supposed to do a task (in this case, make fun of Praxis), and if so, what was the consequence for if everyone did or did not do it?

There. Does it make more sense now?



Now, lets take my initial question, and look at it completely out of context (as in, look at just the question itself):

I'll assume it's something bad... but anyways, has anyone played a game where there was something like this to be done (e.g. make fun of Praxis)? And if so, was there a consequence, and if so, what was it?

So... taken completely out of context, it looks like I'm asking "have people been told to make fun of someone before?" And, as clearly pointed out by several people, has been addressed for like half of the game up to that point, and has been answered many times. So, the question itself taken out of context can easily make it look like I've skimmed.

Now, the reason why I find you very scummy is not that you find me scummy, and not because you think I skimmed (that alone wouldn't make me go after you), but the fact that your biggest source of evidence you use and hardcore tunnel against me with is the mis-worded question, even after I explained it was completely mis-worded and changed the entire meaning of the question. I even clearly state what I intended to say in the post, what I intended to say in the question, and what the question turned out to say. And still, you take the entire question out of context and use it against me, even after I state otherwise.

So, to answer why I stopped going for J: He mis-understood my post and question, but after both were cleared up of confusion, he stopped going for me.

Why I am still going for you: You still use the mis-worded question against me.

Sorry guys, but I'm keeping my vote on Nich. I see no reason why anyone who is town would use a mis-worded question out of context against someone, after the question was stated to be mis-worded. And this question (unless I'm mistaken) is his main argument against me, and he is still using it to try to incriminate me. So my vote is staying where it is.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

FF's 348 was the last post I read, the rest were ninjas. reading them now (so that nobody accuses me of re-stating what has already been said).

 

[X1-12]

Sorry guys, but I'm keeping my vote on Nich. I see no reason why anyone who is town would use a mis-worded question out of context against someone, after the question was stated to be mis-worded. And this question (unless I'm mistaken) is his main argument against me, and he is still using it to try to incriminate me. So my vote is staying where it is.

@OS: what kind of dog would you most compare Nich to? <- serious question

 

[Blue Yoshi]

OMFG ROFLMAO Nich's 350 made me lol SOOOOO HARD (partially because I just so happened to counter his entire argument in that post without reading that post).

Anyways, now countering it LOLOLOLOL

(sorry, it's too funny... you'll see why in a bit).

 

[Blue Yoshi]

My responses in Blue (though I don't feel like re-posting my entire argument I made a few posts ago, so for anything related to that, I'll just say read that post):

***Skipping Doc part of post***

Really? There was several pages of flavor discussion about the fool thing and Gaston from disney mafia, the role PM was even QUOTED IN THE THREAD, and blue yoshi comes in asking "Was anyone ever in a game where you had to make fun of praxis?" Seriously, what other evidence do you want?!?

Reason why this is soo funny: I stated that that quote taken out of context changes the entire meaning, and that it was your only "evidence" against me. What do you know, you make a post attacking me, where this is your only source of evidence. Sorry, but if you just spent like an hour or so making a huge argument over why that question is mis-worded, and is the only evidence being used against you, and then finding out that you've been ninja'd where the only evidence being used against you was the question, you'll be laughing as well XD. Anyways, read my other post for more of my argument against this.

Insert dumb or scum question here. (Hint: Zen usually isn't dumb)


I don't usually care about it much either, it's just one more thing to top off the list of scummy stuff he's done. The thing is, what else has he done all game?

When I'm being attacked by you non-stop, and when I think you're scum, what else should I do? And that said, why don't I ask you the exact same question.

One more thing Zen, place your vote on someone who might actually get lynched today. Deadline's approaching FAST, and we don't need a no-lynch.

Hopefully people start to think that you are a good lynch option, because other than using a mis-worded question against me, you've done basically nothing all game. Moreover, even when I state that you are using a mis-worded question and prove that it is so, you still use it against me... and that's basically all you did this game as well (other than maybe one or two not-so-useful things like telling the doc to save J and such).


@Anyone who actually listens to me once in a while.
I'm thinking a BY-OS-Zen scumteam here. It just fits.

I LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL'd so hard when I saw this. Mostly because we were a three-man neighborhood in Code Geass mafia. Anyways, it's funny how the only people he finds scummy are me and those who tell him to stop tunnelling me (he included Gheb in a previous list).

@Lynch for today
I'd really like one of the 3 people I mentioned above gone, but deadline's approaching, and the LL wagon seems to be the most likely to lead to a lynch. Plus, LL has been pretty anti-town and useless in his own right, so...

So,

Unvote, Vote: LL

I see this more as a "I'll vote someone else to look more pro-town, which is something scum would do to look more townie... though then again, it could also be something town would do to avoid a no-lynch. So... can't really do much on this at the moment...

Anyways... The main reason why I found this so funny is he ninja'd me in my last post, but everything he used against me (i.e. only the mis-worded question lol), I disproved and stated that that was his only source of "evidence" against me.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Blue yoshi, if we allowed people to take back every scumslip we made, we couldn't play mafia. There is no evidence whatsoever that you simply "misworded the question" instead of trying to go back and cover up your mistake. Plus, that's not the only sign of skimming in the post, there was also the 10/18 title thing. Either one by themselves? Fine, people make mistakes. But I just don't buy that you managed to make two mistakes of that size in the same post without skimming.

However, there's even more incriminating evidence. Suppose we all suffered massive brain damage and let you reword the question for no good reason.

Has anyone played a game where the entire group was supposed to do a task (in this case, make fun of Praxis), and if so, what was the consequence for if everyone did or did not do it?

The reworded question still points to you skimming. Aside from the Gaston-disney mafia bit you would have known about IF you were keeping up, you can't really compare stuff between what would be two entirely different games (and likely mods as well.) Why should the penalty for not doing task X in game Y (aside from Gaston in Disney mafia) have ANY relevance to the penalty for not making fun of Praxis in this game?

@X1
What kind of a question is that?

Side note:
Ninja by BY, I'll address that in my next post.

 

[X1-12]

I beleive the answer would be: Bulldog

Once I was tunnelling real hard on someone and he said I had 'nich' syndrome because I would get my teeth in and never let go

I was implying to BY that you're just bad town over scum.

 

[Xivii]

There's just two things wrong with that.

1) I don't have control over the doc. Your whole argument implies that I somehow have jedi mind trick power over the doctor. Well guess what: I DON'T. One person isn't all of town, genius.

Which is why it was random and uneccessary for you to say.

It's not like doc would trust your judgement, so why say it at all? And at such an odd time.. why?

I don't think you're really playing this game.

2)Even if all of town DID tell the doc "Protect X", it opens things up to a WIFOM game. Scum likely won't target X because they think the doc will protect X, so the doc can protect Y instead and maybe get a success.

Ok

Really? There was several pages of flavor discussion about the fool thing and Gaston from disney mafia, the role PM was even QUOTED IN THE THREAD, and blue yoshi comes in asking "Was anyone ever in a game where you had to make fun of praxis?" Seriously, what other evidence do you want?!?

As I said, BY always plays the way he has. Skimming to you does not neccessarily equal skimming to him. He makes excuses all the time so I just don't see him as directly lying about skimming rather than making an excuse about skimming if he actually did. Thus why I think he genuinely feels he wasn't skimming and why I feel you're playing like you can read his mind but you can't.

Insert dumb or scum question here. (Hint: Zen usually isn't dumb)[/qoute]teh irony

[qoute]I don't usually care about it much either, it's just one more thing to top off the list of scummy stuff he's done.

Hence tunneling.

The thing is, what else has he done all game?

Be BY.

One more thing Zen, place your vote on someone who might actually get lynched today. Deadline's approaching FAST, and we don't need a no-lynch.

Unvote; vote: Nich

I'll change if absolute necessariy, but as I said, you should be the play.