Mafia All Stars: In the end, it was Nothing Special

[X1-12]

There's a difference when someone asking out of the blue, and someone wanting to defend themselves. How are you supposed to defend yourself when you don't know why they want you lynched?

roughly how many votes were you on at this point?

Could you have not just played in a pro-town manner to convince them otherwise?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I unvoted and voted Nich a long time ago...

just in case my vote is still on myself in the vote count... shouldn't be that way.

Well, either way, just to make sure:

unvote vote: Nich

 

[~ Gheb ~]

SwordsR, there had to be a N0 in order for Praxis to have been made a fool =x

No, that's not true. The game where Gaston comes from didn't even have a N0 so how can you conclude - based off that particular role - that there was a N0? If there was a N0 the mod would've announced it -.-

I didn't see/notice J make generalizations like that. Link them?

Here, my dear:

Another thing, You still have not answered the questions of who should be the play of the day. Please answer that ;3

Directed at me, post #187 I think [page 5 w/ 40ppp]. Pretty early, don't you think?

I'm pretty sure it was within 5 days of the game starting. You wouldnt think thats kinda early for already picking the lynch choice?

Well yeah, I do think so. Which is why I wonder you didn't notice that J did it or to be more precise - tried to nudge me into doing it. I agree though that it makes Swords look kind of bad here.

In regards to Seph I'm not sure if he's really that scummy. I know he looks a lot more confident than usual but idk if that's because he's scum or if he's just been improving [especially after all the positive critics @Community Mafia]. He dodged Nich's question earlier [about skimming] but he might just have thought that it's a rhetorical question. I'm having more of a null-read on him than a scum-read tbh.

Unvote Vote Lionel Luther

 

[Overswarm]

*dances to avoid prod*

I'll have more time for this later today after work. Being productive today. Sorry all!

(plus I'm still waiting for a flip)

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I'm pretty sure it was within 5 days of the game starting. You wouldnt think thats kinda early for already picking the lynch choice?

How is that scummy? What kind of thinking scum would try to push a lynch THAT early?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

EBWOP: I mean, if i WAS scum, why would i try to push a lynch THAT early.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Unvote Vote Lionel Luther

Hey more people should get like Gheb.

Except don't use his Arcanine. That might distract him and cause him to vote you instead of his current vote, which would upset me greatly.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

@Swords: Nice WIFOM.

roughly how many votes were you on at this point?

Around 3 from RVS's and 1 from Swords.

Could you have not just played in a pro-town manner to convince them otherwise?

You do realize what your saying here don't you?

"I know you like defending yourself your own way, and I'm gonna let you do that but, playing the townie card is the best way to defend yourself of ALL TIME!"

In all seriousness, it's more of a suggestion than a question.

 

[X1-12]

@Swords: Nice WIFOM.


Around 3 from RVS's and 1 from Swords.


You do realize what your saying here don't you?

"I know you like defending yourself your own way, and I'm gonna let you do that but, playing the townie card is the best way to defend yourself of ALL TIME!"

In all seriousness, it's more of a suggestion than a question.

I was pointing out that when you are at around L-5 of which 3 are RVS you shouldn't bother about defending yourself, instead just playing the game like a townie. I fail to see why you would act otherwise

 

[Praxis]

Man people always say this. What do you mean by more personal reasons? Like give an example. I don't think scum ever really just go by personal targets. And seeing who people like is just as helpful as seeing who they dislike.

Every game people say general town stuff like this, but I never got this one.

We had this disagreement in another thread as well.

Look, if everyone posts "town reads" and they all line up, then when a NK happens, there is nothing to read in to from the NK. Scum had a list of town's most trusted, and picked whichever of them they felt was most likely to not have doc protection. No other information gleaned.

If, however, scum has to instead pick their kills on who they perceive might be a power role, you can read in to that. Find someone who spoke similarly and wasn't killed, and they might be scum.

Or, perhaps, if scum kills someone for tunneling another player. They could be trying relieve pressure, or frame that player...all interesting discussion points you can get reactions from others on.

In Bioware, I tunneled like, nearly the entire scum team on D1, and they killed me during the night; the following day we got the mafia godfather lynched off of my statements. In another game I recall, scum killed a player D1 because the last thing he did was make a case on another player, and killing him would make that player look suspicious. All of these have at least some kind of information- even if it is WIFOM- that you can then discuss and glean information either from it or from people's reactions.

Much better than handing scum a list to kill people from regardless of their connections to the player cast.

 

[X1-12]

I don't think your Bioware example holds up to much, the godfather was playing real bad, one half of the hydra flaked and the other half had not enough time to play properly, he's also a very naturally scummy player

every game I've been in with WIFOM like that I suggest to just ignore it and no-ones ever disagreed with that

 

[Praxis]

I'd rather deal with people's reaction to WIFOM than simply shrug off the best town player dying ever Night unconnected.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

No, that's not true. The game where Gaston comes from didn't even have a N0 so how can you conclude - based off that particular role - that there was a N0? If there was a N0 the mod would've announced it -.-



Here, my dear:



Directed at me, post #187 I think [page 5 w/ 40ppp]. Pretty early, don't you think?



Well yeah, I do think so. Which is why I wonder you didn't notice that J did it or to be more precise - tried to nudge me into doing it. I agree though that it makes Swords look kind of bad here.

In regards to Seph I'm not sure if he's really that scummy. I know he looks a lot more confident than usual but idk if that's because he's scum or if he's just been improving [especially after all the positive critics @Community Mafia]. He dodged Nich's question earlier [about skimming] but he might just have thought that it's a rhetorical question. I'm having more of a null-read on him than a scum-read tbh.

Unvote Vote Lionel Luther

That second q was to swords.

Regarding to the first J thing, she was asking you a question. That doesn't sound nearly as suspect as someone being like, oh so and so should be lynched today a few days into the game. basically seems like she was asking 'whose the scummiest' to me.

i'm sorry J if yur not a chic... pink text

 

[#HBC | Mac]

How is that scummy? What kind of thinking scum would try to push a lynch THAT early?

It's not something thats so overly scummy that scum would try to avoid doing it. also that defense is pretty wifomy. Wanna answer why you felt the need to already push announce the lynch so early in the game?

also praxis sucks

unvote, vote: Lionel

 

[SwordsRbroken]

It's not something thats so overly scummy that scum would try to avoid doing it. also that defense is pretty wifomy. Wanna answer why you felt the need to already push announce the lynch so early in the game?

I wasn't announcing the lynch when i said that, i intended to say, "hey guys, let's look elsewhere for now, we can always come back to him later when we are lookin for a lynch."

 

[SwordsRbroken]

EBWOP: I mean we can come back to him later IF NEEDBE.

 

[Kirby King]

Ryker and Xatres have been prodded again. They have 48 hours to post in this thread before they risk replacement or modkill.

mentosman8 and BSL have been prodded.

 

[Overswarm]

@mod

can there be a double modkill?

 

[Kirby King]

Yes. In the event of simultaneous modkills, the Day will end if any of the players being killed are town-aligned.

 

[Overswarm]

@mod

Do prods restart their timer at the start of a new day?

e.g., a guy has two prods on Friday, someone else gets modkilled on Friday before his third prod, game starts on Monday and first guy doesn't post. Does he immediately get a prod and die?

 

[Kirby King]

There is no rule on that one way or another. He would have at least 48 hours to post once the next Day began, and I would announce as much before he was modkilled.

 

[mentosman8]

No, that's not true. The game where Gaston comes from didn't even have a N0 so how can you conclude - based off that particular role - that there was a N0? If there was a N0 the mod would've announced it -.-

However, there was clearly an ability used prior to D1, which means that there HAD to have been some form of N0. Doesn't mean everyone got to make a pick during it, or it was an official night, but there was a period in which a player was allowed to make an action prior to game start, which is a form of N0.

Overall on my catchup, I'm seeing some interesting moves coming about, and am debating who I'd like to move on at the end of the day. Frozen's push to pressure other people comes at an odd time. We've got 4 days left to get a 9/17 majority when he calls the idea, which is somewhat late in the day to be pressuring someone. In a game this large we need time to vote someone, get their claim, react to their claim, and switch targets if necessary. Already cutting it close.

I'll be back after I get caught up everywhere else with my thoughts on where to place my vote. Shouldn't be too long.

 

[BSL]

this sucks big time. i have to replace out of all of my mafia games. school decided to pile up a bunch of homework/projects on me. i didnt think it wouldve been more than a few days of work, but now i realize itll take me a while.

sorry mods/players.

10 chars

 

[Overswarm]

Still avoiding prods. Must be scum. o_o


Seriously though, 8 ****ing pages. Awaiting flip for read.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Overswarm
Why are you more intent on needling me than scumhunting? I have NEVER seen you play like this semi-lurker stuff you're doing now.

@J
It's no one point in particular, but the whole mound of evidence is pretty convincing. The fact that he's replacing out instead of responding doesn't help his playerslot's case either. As for a vote... I'll support his lynch when it comes down to it, but I really don't like BY.


About BY:
It's not BY skimming that I dislike about him. It's how he
a) Lied about it. All the evidence points to him skimming. For him to just go "You liar, I didn't skim" doesn't hold water. I wouldn't have made a big deal about it if he said "Whoops, missed that, my bad." However, instead he is vehemently denying he didn't skim despite the evidence otherwise. I think he noticed how I was going after Seph for skimming, and he wanted to avoid the heat.
b) Has been Oh-my-gosh-you-suck attacking me for pointing out his FAIL. (He was on J as well until J backed off). I mean, he asked the group if I usually tunnel like this, the group reply was a unanimous YES, and he just ignored it.
c) One last point, he hasn't responded to my last post about him that PROVED he skimmed.

Also, I wanted to point out that if he flips scum, that gives us some huge connections to Overswarm, Zen, and Gheb to a lesser extent. All three have been going "Nicholas1024's a bad player, nobody is on the wagon, don't bother with it." All three KNOW that I don't give up easily and trying to dissuade me would be useless given the evidence, so it would be the perfect scumplay to keep BY-scum alive. (I could really see Overswarm in particular doing this.)

@Blue Yoshi
Tell me, do you have ANY reasons behind voting me? (Aside from me showing you to be a liar, that is.)

 

[Overswarm]

@Overswarm
Why are you more intent on needling me than scumhunting? I have NEVER seen you play like this semi-lurker stuff you're doing now.

My reasons areeeeeeee mine own.

But I'm busy atm. Not enough time to read the thread and comprehend things, so I'm waiting for a flip so that I don't have to re-read afterwards. Just picking up pieces and posting a few things here and there.

And no, I've stated what I'm stating about your playstyle in multiple games prior to this. If it's some sort of scum gambit, it's done by saying nothing but the truth; you wouldn't know it was a gambit in any sense.

Kind of how I could say "Oh, Nich says 'I could really see Overswarm in particular doing this'?! I bet he's just setting me up for a lynch! He's bussing his partner and setting me up for a lynch because he knows I wouldn't fall for it!"

Except even if that were true, that'd be bull**** because you've made similar statements about my playstyle in the past.

If something is true, use it as a guide in context. Not as proof.

Again, stop tunneling.

Evidence -> hypothesis -> testing -> conclusion

NOT

Evidence -> Conclusion -> Conclusion -> WIFOM

 

[X1-12]

Unvote
Vote: Overswarm

either listen to that kid or don't. Don't lie about it.

 

[mentosman8]

Hm, I know I didn't get back as quick as I said I would, I was thinking to join the BSL votes, but since he requested replacement I'd like to wait a bit on that.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Hey Overswarm, how come you can keep up enough to try to pick apart my posts, but you can't actually contribute? I think that "Waiting for a flip" thing is a lie. You just want time to piece together your scumplan.

Also, that's an awful analogy and you know it. My reasoning is "If blue yoshi is scum, Overswarm is likely scum for defending him." You know how hard I am to dissuade, so the way you're defending Blue yoshi by trying to undermine my support would make perfect sense for you-scum. Evidence+Meta+Testing = Conclusion.

@Doc
Protect J tonight.

 

[Overswarm]

Hey Overswarm, how come you can keep up enough to try to pick apart my posts, but you can't actually contribute? I think that "Waiting for a flip" thing is a lie. You just want time to piece together your scumplan.

Also, that's an awful analogy and you know it. My reasoning is "If blue yoshi is scum, Overswarm is likely scum for defending him." You know how hard I am to dissuade, so the way you're defending Blue yoshi by trying to undermine my support would make perfect sense for you-scum. Evidence+Meta+Testing = Conclusion.

@Doc
Protect J tonight.

This is my entertainment. Mafia is real work.

How come you keep giving me entertainment instead of actually scum hunting?


See? Asking loaded questions is fun AND easy.

Nich, I don't even know what the argument between you and Blue Yoshi is, nor do I care. I'm not going to listen to anything you say without someone else strongly backing it up. I can read your posts and maybe pick up information I didn't have prior, but conclusions? I'll stay far away from yours, thanks.

I'm going to continue to wait for a flip before taking a stab at the game.

 

[Nicholas1024]

This is my entertainment. Mafia is real work.

How come you keep giving me entertainment instead of actually scum hunting?


See? Asking loaded questions is fun AND easy.

Nich, I don't even know what the argument between you and Blue Yoshi is, nor do I care. I'm not going to listen to anything you say without someone else strongly backing it up. I can read your posts and maybe pick up information I didn't have prior, but conclusions? I'll stay far away from yours, thanks.

I'm going to continue to wait for a flip before taking a stab at the game.

I could care less whether the question is loaded or not. I AM scum hunting, and the more I think about it, the more I think that YOU'RE the scum I'm hunting.

You don't know or care what one of the biggest arguments that has caused a ton of discussion on this thread is about? Regardless of whether you accept my conclusions, that is a load of info and reactions that any townie would want to have.

@Everyone
Note that he managed to respond within 4 minutes. Amazing how he can write a decent reply to a post attacking him so quickly and yet can't keep up in any other aspect.

 

[Overswarm]

I could care less whether the question is loaded or not. I AM scum hunting, and the more I think about it, the more I think that YOU'RE the scum I'm hunting.

You don't know or care what one of the biggest arguments that has caused a ton of discussion on this thread is about? Regardless of whether you accept my conclusions, that is a load of info and reactions that any townie would want to have.

@Everyone
Note that he managed to respond within 4 minutes. Amazing how he can write a decent reply to a post attacking him so quickly and yet can't keep up in any other aspect.

I rest my case.


Now that I'm done making a fool out Nich and telling people very clearly:

NO MATTER WHAT NICH SAYS, DO NOT LET HIM MAKE THE CONCLUSION. IT WILL PROBABLY BE WRONG. YOU COULD PROBABLY DO THE OPPOSITE AND BE ALL RIGHT.

SERIOUSLY. JUST USE WHATEVER INFORMATION YOU CAN TO MAKE YOUR OWN CONCLUSION. YOU MAY END UP AGREEING WITH NICH, BUT THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE ACTUAL PROCESS.


I'll once again prod dodge until a flip. Too many people replacing and too many pages for me to read in one sitting.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I rest my case.


Now that I'm done making a fool out Nich and telling people very clearly:

NO MATTER WHAT NICH SAYS, DO NOT LET HIM MAKE THE CONCLUSION. IT WILL PROBABLY BE WRONG. YOU COULD PROBABLY DO THE OPPOSITE AND BE ALL RIGHT.

SERIOUSLY. JUST USE WHATEVER INFORMATION YOU CAN TO MAKE YOUR OWN CONCLUSION. YOU MAY END UP AGREEING WITH NICH, BUT THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE ACTUAL PROCESS.


I'll once again prod dodge until a flip. Too many people replacing and too many pages for me to read in one sitting.

Yay for dodging the question. Three things, Overswarm.

1) What case?
2) Who says you have to read everything in one sitting? I've caught up before by reading little bits here and there. And checking your recent posts, you have plenty of those little timeslots.
3) Why don't you just refute my argument instead of telling people to ignore me? Oh that's right, you can't.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Not that I'm agreeing with Nich, but what kind of BS is just waiting for a lynch and not contributing at all? I mean really, why even play?

If your not going to contribute, and just ride towns coat tails, I'm more than content to see you gone.

Unvote,

Vote: Overswarm

This doesn't mean I'm going to forget about BSL's slot.

FOS BSL

 

[SwordsRbroken]

OS is looking just darn weird right now, sorta emotional responses to nich, don't really know how to describe it. But i want BSL to die first.

unvote vote: BSL

 

[Kirby King]

giraffelasergun replaces BSL.

 

[#HBC | J]

i'm sorry J if yur not a chic... pink text

Actually I should be the one apologizing ^^" You are not the first one to mistaken the pink text and not going to be the last. =P I have even had to go put it in my location xD

@Doc
Protect J tonight.

Whaaaat?! No no no no don't suggest who the doc should protect! =x The doc should protect whomever they think will be the best asset to the town. They should also keep it completely random so scum will not be able to guess correctly. Rawr! Idk if I should be protected there is probably someone better >.> Again, Doc's discretion first.

Game plan for D1: Lynch BSL/GLG (giraffelasergun). I'm really not too keen on what GLG has to say but maybe we should hear what GLG has to say in response to the evidence presented against BSL and to possible claim however I am really set on GLG=Scum and is the play toDay. Today (being Tuesday 11/2) we should lynch BSL. We will have solid info in which we can go off of D2. Plus now the day is even threatened to end by a mod-kill.

BSL is @ L-5. Needs more votes ASAP.

Zen, would you be willing to now vote BSL>SwordsR for toDay?

Mentos/Nich, what is stopping you at this moment from voting BSL?

Seph, Could you switch around your FoS and Vote? ;3

With you four voting that would put him at L-1. I would like him to be on that tight of a leash and maybe it will coerce a claim out of him. We will go off how believeable the claim is then lynch. We are not having a no-lynch/modkill to end the day. Since it seems Ryker/Xatres might not post we have an even stricter deadline.

Reason I am pushing this so hard? It would be quite obvious. I want someone who I have a pretty decent scum-read on, has been completely anti-town in almost all of his posts, and would be the best possible lynch for the town. Yes, OS is acting a bit weird, and Yes Teran has done jack **** but can you honestly say lynching them over BSL at this stage of the game is better? Anti-town/Scummy or Inactive/Doesn't seem to care or Prod Dodgy/Hard-headed on someone? I will most likely choose the Anti-town/Scummy one 100x and if you are town you truly would as well. Also we have to consider the fact that Ryker/Xatres will most likely be mod-killed and the day will end. I DO NOT WANT THE DAY TO END THIS WAY. It is almost as bad as a No-lynch, especially since Ryker has not even posted once in this game and Xatres has posted a whopping 3 posts that were not even serious! I want to stress this clearly as I can since the deadline is close that BSL is the play. That's it.

Also if anyone were to hammer BSL/GLG before they make a final post I will auto-matically consider them scum and see them D2. However that should not be too much of an issue since he is only at L-5.

@GLG: I don't want excuses, you should have time to re-read but basically here is what I am saying. Your next post could be your last so make it count. I want your thoughts on people and pretty much everyone at this point. Who we should lynch if we miraculously do not go for you? Who do you find scummy (more than one if you have)? When you are at L-2/L-1 you need to claim. Bring up any of the Gaston/Rabbit ears or any other form of WIFOM I will disregard it. If you mention BY, do so without mentioning the word "skim" in any form of the word. I'm sorry that you are probably replacing into such a stressful/seems to be hard position but still try! ;_; (sorry for adding to it myself x.x) You do not have that much time at all so please hurry.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Regarding to the first J thing, she was asking you a question. That doesn't sound nearly as suspect as someone being like, oh so and so should be lynched today a few days into the game. basically seems like she was asking 'whose the scummiest' to me.

I actually think it's the other way round. Although it's not legitimate in my book I can see the purpose of somebody saying after a couple of days "hey let's lynch him, guys" - to draw a reaction [especially on a newer player], which can easily turn out to be useful. It can also hurt though so I'm not giving swords credit for his actions.

J on the other hand has not simply "asked" about my opinion but demanded to know from me who the play is. That looks more like a dumb attempt to nudge me into a trap by asking for such an absolute response. Swords action definitely has a lot more purpose [and a lot more pro-town purpose] than the way J's playing.

About BY:
It's not BY skimming that I dislike about him. It's how he
a) Lied about it. All the evidence points to him skimming. For him to just go "You liar, I didn't skim" doesn't hold water. I wouldn't have made a big deal about it if he said "Whoops, missed that, my bad." However, instead he is vehemently denying he didn't skim despite the evidence otherwise. I think he noticed how I was going after Seph for skimming, and he wanted to avoid the heat.
b) Has been Oh-my-gosh-you-suck attacking me for pointing out his FAIL. (He was on J as well until J backed off). I mean, he asked the group if I usually tunnel like this, the group reply was a unanimous YES, and he just ignored it.
c) One last point, he hasn't responded to my last post about him that PROVED he skimmed.

Legit. The problem is that I can easily see him do the same as a townie. A townie who lacks argumentation skills [no offense, BY] may feel threatened by you in the wrong way. Since he has no means to get the attention off him he might try to deflect it.

Also, I wanted to point out that if he flips scum, that gives us some huge connections to Overswarm, Zen, and Gheb to a lesser extent. All three have been going "Nicholas1024's a bad player, nobody is on the wagon, don't bother with it." All three KNOW that I don't give up easily and trying to dissuade me would be useless given the evidence, so it would be the perfect scumplay to keep BY-scum alive. (I could really see Overswarm in particular doing this.)

Woah, I never said you are a bad player. I only said you tunnel a lot, which you can't really deny. Also, I do realize that you have points in regards to BY, I just think my counterpoint is strong enough for you to see why I think Lionel, BSL, J and Swords are better lynches. And - let's not kid ourselves - do you earnestly think that as scum I would defend BY on day 1 if he was my buddy rather than mercilessly bus him? Before you shout "WIFOM!" think carefully about the situation before you put too much meaning behind what you consider a connection.

 

[Xatres]

Hey guys, sorry for being inactive. I've been in MD this week for my cousin's wedding and been having trouble with internet access. I should be able to post from here on out. I'll try to get caught up as quickly as I can.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@J
Actually, we don't need to worry about a modkill. Tandora and Scamp have both signed up for replacement in the signups thread, so at worst it would be a double replacement instead. Anyway, the reason I'm not voting BSL is that I really want BY (and then Overswarm, probably) dead. However, if it comes down to it I'll support the lynch.

@Gheb
Ah, point taken. Anyway, OS/Zen would be the main people incriminated by a BY scumflip. With you it would be something to look at, but not insta-lynch status. Anyway, I wish you had said that (regarding BY) earlier so I understood WHY you disliked the wagon.

@BY
I'm still waiting for your response to that one post of mine...

@Xatres
When you're caught up, please give opinions on BY, Overswarm, and BSL.