Mafia All Stars: In the end, it was Nothing Special

[Nicholas1024]

@Gheb
If Tand chooses a scum and dies, and Speh WATCHED Tand and nobody visited her, that way we could eliminate the possibility of a nightkill. Therefore, whoever Tand tried to recruit must be scum.

 

[Overswarm]

A watcher gives you a result if the person you watch is visited by somebody. If Tandora dies recruiting mafia she is not the one who's being visited by them and therefore the watcher shouldn't get that result.

I don't know what's up with all these false claims. I don't see how you of all people could confuse that, Overswarm =/

I don't know what's up with all this ****ing stupidity. I don't see how you of all people could confuse that, Gheb =/


If Seph watches Tandora, we know who visits Tandora. That means if mafia NKills Tandora, BOOM. Dead mafia.

Of course, mafia could kill Seph instead. In this way, we'd get a confirmed townie via Tandora (post flip of Tandora, of course, but enough to give us some leeway early on).

Tandora can breadcrumb in some way who she is going to visit. She could outright state it too, and that'd be just as good, it'd just add a bit of oddity to it.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ GLG: Dude just full claim, why make us go through the hassle of finding that ****?

@ Gheb: It's just statistically more likely that Tandora, assuming she is a mason recruiter, would hit a townie for her recruit. That's the assumption OS's plan of action relies on.

Yes it's a possibility that she recruits a scum and dies, but there isn't much we can do to protect against that.

Why did you assume that the whole plan didn't make sense just because of that slight chance of failure? =/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't understand people's reactions at all. You seem to think that I'm against the plan. Just to make this clear: I'm perfectly fine with Seph watching Tandora for obvious reasons. It's the best course of action.

Just to get that out of the way.

Why did you assume that the whole plan didn't make sense just because of that slight chance of failure? =/

I'm sorry, where did I say that the plan doesn't make sense? But please read this post again:

Assuming no manipulative roles, we either get confirmed mafia (they kill tandora) or confirmed town (they kill Seph, tandora gets recruit). Works for me.

Well, I don't know what you think of when you read the word "confirmed" but to me it implies that there's some guaranteed consequence to a certain action. So according to Overswarm either Tandora recruits a townie or we find a mafioso. One or the other must happen as the results are "confirmed" as he says himself.

But this is not the case. It could also happen that Tandora recruits scum and dies while the Mafia targets somebody else. And when that happens we get neither confirmed town nor confirmed scum.

I mean, it wasn't even a big deal to me until you guys kind of made it one, especially Overswarm himself. Since when is pointing out an obvious mistake "stupidity"? Had I not pointed it out I would've been under a completely false impression. That's exactly the kind of sloppy vagueness that he showed us as scum in Community Mafia. The town Overswarm from Bioware would write novels on the smallest matters if he was onto something. This time it seems more that he tries to shut down even the slightest, most harmless critique against him. Seems like I hit a nerve. Funny, because I neither questioned his plans nor his motives.

Odd.

 

[Overswarm]

Well, I don't know what you think of when you read the word "confirmed" but to me it implies that there's some guaranteed consequence to a certain action. So according to Overswarm either Tandora recruits a townie or we find a mafioso. One or the other must happen as the results are "confirmed" as he says himself.

But this is not the case. It could also happen that Tandora recruits scum and dies while the Mafia targets somebody else. And when that happens we get neither confirmed town nor confirmed scum.

I mean, it wasn't even a big deal to me until you guys kind of made it one, especially Overswarm himself. Since when is pointing out an obvious mistake "stupidity"? Had I not pointed it out I would've been under a completely false impression. That's exactly the kind of sloppy vagueness that he showed us as scum in Community Mafia. The town Overswarm from Bioware would write novels on the smallest matters if he was onto something. This time it seems more that he tries to shut down even the slightest, most harmless critique against him. Seems like I hit a nerve. Funny, because I neither questioned his plans nor his motives.

You're an idiot, Gheb. Or scum. One or the other.

If scum kills someone at random... so? They'd do that anyway.

If Tandora dies to recruiting scum we would know. She could tell us. It's not a difficult concept.

This course of action protects Tandora, and thus gives us a potential two confirmed-townies: Tandora and her recruit. Sephiroth would die, unless of course Mafia wants us to keep a watcher. Totally fine by me.

This is the best overall course of action for us.

We need to know if LL is scum or town for end game.

I'd like you to be investigated, too. Or vig'd. That'd work too.

 

[X1-12]

I'd like you to be investigated, too. Or vig'd. That'd work too.

What players from this game, if they were vigs, do you ever think would vig Gheb?

Also on a scale of 0 to 10, 10 is superbest mafia player ever, and 0 is worst player ever, where do you think Gheb would go.

Now reevaluate you're 'dumb or scum' comment on Gheb

 

[X1-12]

also LL is a ***

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I don't know what's up with all these false claims. I don't see how you of all people could confuse that, Overswarm =/

This is what I took to mean you saying the plan didn't make sense.

You saying "false claims" made me think that you thought that just because the possibility that Tandora could misrecruit and die was omitted from OS's original consideration, it eliminated the validity of his claim that the plan was a good idea. That's what I thought you meant by "false claims"; the "claim" was the plan itself.

In that light, you saying the claim was false was equivalent to saying it didn't make sense, even though statistically, despite the omission of that possibility, it still made sense.

Hope that clears it up.

@ OS, when you say Tandora can tell us if she dies by misrecruiting, are you suggesting that she will must tell us before night phase who her target is so that if she dies at night on top of other night kills, we know for sure who she misrecruited?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, I know what the misunderstanding is now, Frozen. I just wish OS would start to actually become constructive instead of pretending to be oh-so good at this game, that everybody who questions him must be "dumb or scum" [which in his book appears to be pretty much everybody].

And OS, if you think my stance will change just because you throw out empty threats then you're - once again - pathetically mistaken. The way you try to paint me in a bad light for a misunderstanding you provoked yourself is pretty laughable. Do you want to find scum or do you just want to get rid of the guy who questions you? Because in that case, that's two very different things.

 

[Praxis]

Noooo J!

Interesting results. I just got back from MLG Dallas, so... you guys get to wait a tad longer

vote GLG

GLG is the play via lynch.

vig, keep Tandora in mind.

Cop, if you haven't investigated the roles that could cause serious trouble down the line if we're just guessing... please do that. There are a couple out already. Anticipate who might live to end game (by not being lynched by town) and get them cleared so we don't have a standstill guessing game at the end.

Like you?

Why are you so eager to direct power roles?



@ Blue Yoshi, I got the count wrong My bad. Apparently it wasn't as obvious as you make it sound, because no one else noticed and the mod never updated the count before the deadline...I'll bug the mod to update the count more in the future. Your extremely aggressive tone is interesting, though.




re: Tandora...

I thought Tandora's mason breadcrumbs were pretty darn obvious; I called Mason long before she finally stepped forward with the claim while reading through this.

Let me get this straight. GLG flips town, I'm scum. GLG flips scum, I could be scum? Bullcrap. Gheb I thought we were friends, but I guess I was wrong. This is what I get for trying to play like OS. =/

That's not how it works. GLG flips town, you have to be scum. GLG flips scum, null information on you. At least one scum had to have visited J, but nothing prevents two.

Lynch GLG.

Seph watches Tandora.

Tandora recruits player.

Assuming no manipulative roles, we either get confirmed mafia (they kill tandora) or confirmed town (they kill Seph, tandora gets recruit). Works for me.

Still need to hear from the long necked one first though.

You seem to be overlooking a key scenario. You're only focusing on scum killing Tandora or scum killing Seph. What if scum kills her recruit target? Then we can't clear Tandora, and she might be Janitor...

In fact, if Tandora is in fact a scummy janitor claimed mason, mafia would have to kill whoever she says she's going to recruit, so I'm surprised no one's brought that scenario up yet.

Gheb, less harsh please. You turn your case into an AtE and then it is AtE vs. AtE. Dun do it.

I don't know what's up with all this ****ing stupidity. I don't see how you of all people could confuse that, Gheb =/

Huh. Okay, then.

Vote: Tandora

Tandora is the scums janitor. do you guys honestly think that me/my team would be stupid enough to kill J even though we knew J was after me and I'd be lynched anyway?

Yes.

Die please.

 

[Xivii]

What is this, LL claimed 1 random townie would die upon his lynch..

I see. I didn't know what he was saying >_>.

 

[Overswarm]

Huh. Okay, then.

I copy/pasta'd Gheb's post, Praxis.

Don't think I haven't noticed a few tendencies you have, either.

 

[X1-12]

Anyone up for lynching OS toMorrow?

 

[Praxis]

I copy/pasta'd Gheb's post, Praxis.

Don't think I haven't noticed a few tendencies you have, either.

Oh? And what pro-town reason do you have for not pointing them out? Please do share them with us, I won't get mad.

Why you no comment on the fact that your plan has a very obvious hole in it (i.e. not accounting for the "what if Tandora is scum?" scenario)?

 

[Overswarm]

Oh? And what pro-town reason do you have for not pointing them out? Please do share them with us, I won't get mad.

Why you no comment on the fact that your plan has a very obvious hole in it (i.e. not accounting for the "what if Tandora is scum?" scenario)?

Why, exactly, would that change the plan?

 

[Praxis]

Okay then OS, was this one a quote?

You're an idiot, Gheb. Or scum. One or the other.
.

 

[Praxis]

Why, exactly, would that change the plan?

Because your plan is predicated on the assumption that scum have two choices: kill Tandora and get caught, or kill the Watcher and let us clear two townies.

This is a false dilemma, because scum can kill Tandora's recruit target, leaving us in the dark as to her identity, removing a townie, and possibly setting up a mislynch. Or, Scumdora could claim that this is what happened when she kills her supposed recruit target.

The more I think about this plan the less I like it. I wouldn't have minded it in an open setup, or in a small game. But this is mafia all-stars, with all kinds of unusual and exotic roles, with 18 players left in the game. We've already seen a mafia roleblocker die- what if they have a bus driver or another silly role?

 

[X1-12]

praxis you know a town roleblocker flipped, their original role was maf but in this game they were town aligned

 

[Praxis]

-_-
My bad.

Two posts from yesterday I wish to bring up:

I am a bomb.

Daykilling me will result in the death of a random town member.

So, vig can kill LL if needed.

And:

With great intelligence (or even a little in this game ) comes great responsibility.

Most of what Overswarm has done today has consisted of dodging prods and taking pot shots at me. "Nobody listen to Nick" seems to be his theme of the day.

You know the case against BY regarding skimming and lying, so I won't repeat that. However, he has been attacking ONLY those that have attacked him. He was after you while you were on his wagon, when you backed off, he backed off. Since I'm the primary one still attacking him, he's after me. He's gone after NOBODY else and done zip aside from defend himself and oh-my-gosh-you-suck.

Regarding Zen, he's done very little but bash me for tunneling BY without saying ANYTHING about my arguments. In fact, Zen, despite originally having a town read on me due to my tunnel-heavy meta, has attacked and voted me... for tunneling. Yeah...

Also, Zen and BY both have their votes on me, despite it obviously having NO CHANCE at leading to a lynch today with deadline approaching.

OS did nothing yesterday except tunnel a bomb and refuse to contribute. I'd like to see more from him today...a LOT more.

 

[Overswarm]

Because your plan is predicated on the assumption that scum have two choices: kill Tandora and get caught, or kill the Watcher and let us clear two townies.

This is a false dilemma, because scum can kill Tandora's recruit target, leaving us in the dark as to her identity, removing a townie, and possibly setting up a mislynch. Or, Scumdora could claim that this is what happened when she kills her supposed recruit target.

The more I think about this plan the less I like it. I wouldn't have minded it in an open setup, or in a small game. But this is mafia all-stars, with all kinds of unusual and exotic roles, with 18 players left in the game. We've already seen a mafia roleblocker die- what if they have a bus driver or another silly role?

.....and?

I'm not seeing the issue. You're basically saying "HA! You're plan won't work because we can direct mafia to kill someone of our choosing!", which doesn't make much sense to me. How is that not good?

 

[Praxis]

It's something that hasn't been brought in to consideration yet. It means we have to have Tandora target a suspect (someone scum would be doing us a favor by killing), or someone we wouldn't mind getting NK'd. A very notable point you haven't brought up yet.

 

[mentosman8]

Catchin up here after I get caught up in Halo, birthday/bar johns galore

 

[mentosman8]

And how would he be confirmed if he was scum? Tandora dies because she visited him so the watcher won't give us anything useful in that case. And if she tells us beforehand whom she wants to recruit the mafia might be able to manipulate night actions. The ideal case is obviously for her to recruit town.

But she can't confirm scum for us, unfortunately.

Now see, what I don't like about this post, is that Gheb doesn't say "it's also possible that Tando recruits scum yada yada yada". Instead he acts like OS was suggesting that a mismason would catch guaranteed scum. It's not like he said it was another possibility, he said it as if that was the result of OS' plan as he said it.

I had the original Burglar role in Spidey mafia, so unless it's been changed I know exactly what it entails. OS' plan is great for the night. We can also direct the recruit a little bit as has been said, forcing scum to kill a suspect, clear that suspect, or have another of them caught by the watcher. It's literally a win-win-win situation for us, and definitely what should be done for the night.

It's just about time where it's not a bad idea to start thinking about ending the day, but we should work out a recruit choice first(personal vote would be LL). Also we need to make sure everyone has made fun of LL before we let the day end, since I'm still not sure what would happen if someone doesn't do it and it could be bad for town. Regardless we've got ourselves in an awesome situation right now.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I think we should all vote on who we think Tandora should recruit.

@Tandora: regardless of your choice, tell us who your going to recruit before the day is over.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

lol @ LL nearly getting lynched yesterday

there, I made fun of him.

As far as voting for a recruit... how about we use something other than vote. For example, we could use

RECRUIT: person

or something else like that, so that way, we know who we are voting for, and can keep track of it, and we won't affect the actual Vote vote.

We can keep track of it ourselves as well... kind of like how (I forget who) kept track of the votes in Muppets mafia.

Though seeing as this is all-stars, and flavour from various games is included in this game, I think we should say

RAWR: person

In reference to Monster Island Mafia (which is also the first mafia game I played here).

Anyways... long rambling post... but yeah, I'm gone for the night, I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Instead he acts like OS was suggesting that a mismason would catch guaranteed scum.

I didn't "act" like he was suggesting it. It's merely how I understood it and if you read my response above it should be obvious where I'm coming from. If he's saying "we either get confirmed town or confirmed scum" then he's painting a false scenario. Because quite simply it's not true - it could also happen that we get neither.

That's literally all I said.

I simply wanted to correct something that could've been easily misunderstood [especially since I misunderstood it myself]. I never even accused him of having bad intentions or that the plan isn't good so I don't see why OS gets so defensive and harsh about it and why so many people try to read so much out of nothing.

Is Frozen seriously the only player in this game who can give a simple answer to a simple question? Apparently trying to avoid miscommunication makes you an "idiot" or "dumb or scum" now.

 

[Tandora]

Personally, I think LL is town considering his reaction to his almost lynch yesterday. However, I agree that he's a good choice if he's still under suspicion and I am in favor of him being my recruit.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Tandora should recruit LL toNight, if town, she recruits successfully, if not, she dies, and we find a scum. I'm willing to trade a townie death for a scum death.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Overswarm's plan is solid enough, but his reaction to Gheb seems odd. Anyway, he's already on my scumlist due to his D1 behavior regarding BY. GLG takes priority, but I'll be fine with lynching OS come D3.

As far as the recruit goes, I think Tandora should aim for town, as a solid masonry is HUGE in endgame. I'll have to think further about who in particular Tand should aim for though.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

lol @ Praxis messing up the roleblocker flip and thinking it was a scum flip. Wish he was still the fool for extra reason to make fun of him for that. =P

OS don't ignore me duder:

@ OS, when you say Tandora can tell us if she dies by misrecruiting, are you suggesting that she will must tell us before night phase who her target is so that if she dies at night on top of other night kills, we know for sure who she misrecruited?

@ Gheb: Of course man I'm like the most rational guy ever, you know I'm good for it. XD

Having Tan give us a clear verdict on LL is A-ok in my book.

Pretty much down for moving on here via GLG lynch once we hear a full claim from GLG or someone just copypasta's the role for me if they know where to find it since I'm too lazy to go digging, and once OS answer's my Q.

 

[Overswarm]

@ OS, when you say Tandora can tell us if she dies by misrecruiting, are you suggesting that she will must tell us before night phase who her target is so that if she dies at night on top of other night kills, we know for sure who she misrecruited?

Yup, in some form or another. Directing the mafia NKill isn't really a bad idea, imo.

 

[Praxis]

So, Blue Yoshi's post below stood out to me, something seemed off about it.

Though seeing as this is all-stars, and flavour from various games is included in this game, I think we should say

RAWR: person

In reference to Monster Island Mafia (which is also the first mafia game I played here).

Anyways... long rambling post... but yeah, I'm gone for the night, I'll be back tomorrow.

I did a search for the word "rawr" in this thread. Ignoring results quoting other players, there were only two results.

Whaaaat?! No no no no don't suggest who the doc should protect! =x The doc should protect whomever they think will be the best asset to the town. They should also keep it completely random so scum will not be able to guess correctly. Rawr!

Hahaha OS xD. Who knows what I am. I do. RAWR.

!


I hate to do this, I really do, but I genuinely hear the theme music in my head.

GLG is the scum janitor and killed J last night. You, as his scumbuddy, are now trying to breadcrumb J's role with the intent of using it as a safeclaim. Unfortunately, you chose to do it in the exact same manner as he did, which makes it obvious in retrospect.


I'm going to call a GLG/Blue Yoshi/Overswarm scum team right now, potentially with Tandora involved if GLG doesn't flip Janitor. Lynch GLG toDay, BY toMorrow. GGs scum.

 

[Praxis]

@mod, can I get a vote count?

Nich, nice viewing the thread and leaving, and nice wishy-washy last post. I'm watching you.

Swords, contribute more please.

@scum, sweat more please, I feed on your tears.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Praxis
Nice. I really like that bit on BY.

Regarding my last post... what do you want me to say? I'm basically waiting for the GLG lynch to happen (as GLG is as close to confirmed scum as you can get) so I can go after the BY/Zen/OS trio in force.

 

[Praxis]

Point taken that there wasn't all that much to say. Your last post stood out as wishy-washy and I wanted to point it out. You think the scum team is GLG/BY/OS/Zen?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Good stuff Praxis!

@Tandora: recruit Overswarm toNight. Based on the flip of GLG, we'll move accordingly.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Point taken that there wasn't all that much to say. Your last post stood out as wishy-washy and I wanted to point it out. You think the scum team is GLG/BY/OS/Zen?

Yeah. With 17 players, I think a 4-man scumteam is a definite possibility.

 

[X1-12]

I think Praxis might be reading into it a bit much.. I don't see any scumminess there. J saying Rawr surprises me not at all

 

[Overswarm]

Works for me.

 

[Praxis]

Wait, why Overswarm?

Why not Lionel Luthor? Then we create a mafia target out of a bomb (because scum can't have two confirmed townies march in to endgame) and force mafia to waste two NKs at a later date to deal with Lionel Luthor (who is only an unconfirmed bomb and a problem for town otherwise) and Tandora. If Tandora recruits OS, and Tandora dies, scum gets an extra NK, though it does confirm his scumminess.