Mafia All Stars: In the end, it was Nothing Special

[mentosman8]

No, no point in debating, but there IS reason to let the day last a while and get information about other people. Just because he's the obvious lynch doesn't mean we shouldn't take time to look at other people as well. It's still possible that Tando is scum as well, and we haven't really walked that path at all yet. Just because you've got an easy choice for lynch doesn't mean you end the day with no discussion.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Unvote

FoS: Zen

 

[Xivii]

You don't need a flip to know that J was town. J wanted glg dead. glg and Tanny are seen visiting J. J dies.

It wouldn't make sense for them to both be scum, as they both visited J. Why would scum both visit J? If glg flips town, then lynch tanny. He flips scum, we move onto Mentos, Nich, or Swords. Simple.

Yeah no one needs to hammer, but with glg at L-2 the whole day and him and Tanny being seen visiting J, I don't see much pressure being put on others. Other than by lessening chance of a glg lynch.

 

[mentosman8]

I literally explained an example that I have, in fact, seen before of why two mafia could be seen visiting the same person. One kill-executing role, 1 janitoring role. Not saying that's exactly what happened but it IS a possibility we should explore before day end.

Ending a day before everyone in town has even had a chance to speak up is just plain out stupid. Not to mention with discussion directed at others it gives PRs a better idea of who to use their powers on. Discussion is town's best weapon, and ending a day less than 24 hours after it starts is just a waste of a chance. Trust me, we've had more guaranteed lynches than this*coughFrozeninhpcough*, and discussed through the day still managing to get people to talk and get information out of them.

Holy crap I managed to type that all

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Just came back from a smash tournament/smash fest, and am going to work in 8 hours... so I probably won't be back on until late evening ish.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sad that LL is still alive toDay but I guess it's also good because now I can make legit fun of him. Because we all know he's a nub and he smells.

glg, why do accuse Tandora of being the Janitor of all roles? Do you know that there is a Janitor in this game? There is no way for you to know for sure unless - well - you are the Janitor yourself, right?

Waiting for a vote count before I throw in my vote but I think toDay's direction is pretty clear.

Interesting fact:

Scamp flipped Town but his original role was Mafia. Ergo, we can pretty much completely throw out the idea of claims helping us out of the window. It looks pretty much completely randomized.

Nich's reads have been on point so far. Hmmmmmmm.....

 

[~ Gheb ~]

When GLG flips scum, I'll be cleared.

Huge FoS Tandora

People should keep that in mind in case glg flips scum.

 

[Kirby King]

Day 2 Vote Count
giraffelasergun (5): Nicholas1024, Tandora, Lionel Luthor, SwordsRbroken, Zεη
Tandora (1): giraffelasergun

Not voting: Gheb_01, frozenflame751, Overswarm, X1-12, Sephiroths Masamune, Macman, mentosman8, Praxis, Blue Yoshi

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, November 17 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

glg, why do accuse Tandora of being the Janitor of all roles? Do you know that there is a Janitor in this game? There is no way for you to know for sure unless - well - you are the Janitor yourself, right?

Or, if you are scum with her and she's indeed the Janitor.

Just realized that that's also a possibility. Though scum wouldn't be that stupid I think. If J doesn't flip Jan then he'd literally take Scumdora with him.

Still not liking that Tandora tries to clear herself via J, especially when it's a complete lie.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Huge FoS Tandora

People should keep that in mind in case glg flips scum.

this this this this this.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Zen, BY
Tell me, why were you voting me when the day ended yesterday? I thought you two said you'd switch to LL to avoid a no-lynch. Also, I KNOW that both of you were on this site the day before deadline, as I checked your profiles for the "Last active" mark then.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Huge FoS Tandora

People should keep that in mind in case glg flips scum.

Definitely something that deserves severe scrutiny.

I also wanted to point out: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11566115&postcount=531

Notice the buddying of J. Yeah J, the dead guy.

Buddy dead people. For those who were in and recall Popcorn mafia, you will notice that this is pretty much the same **** she did in that game too which showed her scum pretty hardcore. Another thing to consider.

In the process of re-reading GLG and J atm. Their clash yesterday plus the new incriminating watch on GLG is pretty condemning and in GLG v. tandora for today's choice I'm leaning toward GLG as the play but I gotta go through him again and weight that versus Tandora's questionable entrance.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Praxis, Overswarm, Macman, ...

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Gheb are you scum?

I don't think tandora as scum would be so forthcoming about clearing herself. I don't like this implication that both tandora and glg is scum. It could really go either way. Some mods like to include jan and killing as one action together. I'm worrying about you trying to link both glg and tanny.

Tho tan you're obviously not clear, we'll prolly need to get your claim at some point.

If glg flip scum we'll need to look back to d1's LL wagon. We could actually do that right now. Let's not lynch glg so quickly, more can be gotten out of this day.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

teran sucks

also I think it's pretty obvious that glg is the play today.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

also I woulda switched to LL yesterday, but I thought he was already lynched based of some of the last posts.

I'd rather keep him alive for now since I don't really think he's scum anymore. Especially considering that glg is very likely scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb are you scum?

Nope, I'm town.

I don't think tandora as scum would be so forthcoming about clearing herself. I don't like this implication that both tandora and glg is scum. It could really go either way. Some mods like to include jan and killing as one action together. I'm worrying about you trying to link both glg and tanny.

A claimed watcher has reported that two players visited the same person the same night. I'm not the one who's trying to link them - they are already linked. I merely try to find out what the implications of that link are and where they could lead us to.

It's not necessarily the fact, that Tandora tries to clear herself via glg but the way she's doing it. Quite obviously, even if glg flips scum Tandora is by no means clear. I don't see why should would lie about it. But then again I don't see why she would make such an obvious lie as scum. Perhaps you're right.

 

[Xivii]

I literally explained an example that I have, in fact, seen before of why two mafia could be seen visiting the same person. One kill-executing role, 1 janitoring role. Not saying that's exactly what happened but it IS a possibility we should explore before day end.

Ending a day before everyone in town has even had a chance to speak up is just plain out stupid. Not to mention with discussion directed at others it gives PRs a better idea of who to use their powers on. Discussion is town's best weapon, and ending a day less than 24 hours after it starts is just a waste of a chance. Trust me, we've had more guaranteed lynches than this*coughFrozeninhpcough*, and discussed through the day still managing to get people to talk and get information out of them.

Holy crap I managed to type that all

I see. I see.

Or, if you are scum with her and she's indeed the Janitor.

Just realized that that's also a possibility. Though scum wouldn't be that stupid I think. If J doesn't flip Jan then he'd literally take Scumdora with him.

Still not liking that Tandora tries to clear herself via J, especially when it's a complete lie.

What are you saying here? I don't get what you're saying at all..

@Zen, BY
Tell me, why were you voting me when the day ended yesterday? I thought you two said you'd switch to LL to avoid a no-lynch. Also, I KNOW that both of you were on this site the day before deadline, as I checked your profiles for the "Last active" mark then.

I thought he was already lynched. From what I saw, he was at L-1 by the time I checked the thread. I didn't bother to go back and look myself, but everyone kept saying he was at L-1. Then I saw that you hammered. I would have voted him before had I known he was not at L-1, but once he was at L-1 I didn't want to hammer because I thought he was claiming bomb.

But wow: Nich

 

[X1-12]

I thought he was already lynched. From what I saw, he was at L-1 by the time I checked the thread. I didn't bother to go back and look myself, but everyone kept saying he was at L-1. Then I saw that you hammered. I would have voted him before had I known he was not at L-1, but once he was at L-1 I didn't want to hammer because I thought he was claiming bomb.

But wow: Nich

What is this, LL claimed 1 random townie would die upon his lynch..

 

[giraffelasergun]

glg, why do accuse Tandora of being the Janitor of all roles? Do you know that there is a Janitor in this game? There is no way for you to know for sure unless - well - you are the Janitor yourself, right?

Because J's role wasn't revealed when she died but Scamp's was. I haven't heard of a town role that does it so I assumed she was jan.

 

[Overswarm]

Interesting results. I just got back from MLG Dallas, so... you guys get to wait a tad longer

vote GLG

GLG is the play via lynch.

vig, keep Tandora in mind.

Cop, if you haven't investigated the roles that could cause serious trouble down the line if we're just guessing... please do that. There are a couple out already. Anticipate who might live to end game (by not being lynched by town) and get them cleared so we don't have a standstill guessing game at the end.

 

[Tandora]

Huge FoS Tandora

People should keep that in mind in case glg flips scum.

Let me get this straight. GLG flips town, I'm scum. GLG flips scum, I could be scum? Bullcrap. Gheb I thought we were friends, but I guess I was wrong. This is what I get for trying to play like OS. =/

Or, if you are scum with her and she's indeed the Janitor.

Just realized that that's also a possibility. Though scum wouldn't be that stupid I think. If J doesn't flip Jan then he'd literally take Scumdora with him.

Still not liking that Tandora tries to clear herself via J, especially when it's a complete lie.

How is it "a complete lie"? I hate when I am telling the god honest truth and people call me a liar. It drives me nuts because there's nothing I can do that will fix the problem. Continuing to tell the truth will just get me in deeper and deeper.

Definitely something that deserves severe scrutiny.

I also wanted to point out: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11566115&postcount=531

Notice the buddying of J. Yeah J, the dead guy.

Buddy dead people. For those who were in and recall Popcorn mafia, you will notice that this is pretty much the same **** she did in that game too which showed her scum pretty hardcore. Another thing to consider.

In the process of re-reading GLG and J atm. Their clash yesterday plus the new incriminating watch on GLG is pretty condemning and in GLG v. tandora for today's choice I'm leaning toward GLG as the play but I gotta go through him again and weight that versus Tandora's questionable entrance.

A) Note I buddied J before Seph outed me. This is because I was breadcrumbing my role for later reference. Some people here should know what I am referencing at this point.
B) Note I immediately believed his claim because I DID VISIT J. I could have said he was a liar and he was just trying to get two easy lynches killed if I wanted to lie. By accepting his claim, I validated his role. Keep that in mind.
C) Popcorn was a terrible example. Cello was tunneling me hard on both Popcorn and Pop Disney for a misunderstood screencap he had made. For those who don't know, I had to replace Tom in Popcorn. When I pm'ed my scummates, Cello saw that I was sending out a pm. This was during the night phase of Pop Disney and he was 100% convinced I was scum sending the NK to the mod. It didn't help that I confused the two mods names. I was stuck with trying to save both games w/o revealing that I was scum.
D) If you want to use a game as me as scum, reference Tales of Symphonia. I was much more on my game then. You'll also see that I don't go for the obvious target. I would have left J alive and manipulated him instead of killing him.

Tho tan you're obviously not clear, we'll prolly need to get your claim at some point.

Sure, just let me know when and I'll claim.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Are you kidding me Tandora? You know as well as me that glg flipping scum doesn't clear you at all. I love how you can't even give me a solid reason as to why it should be the case but instead COMPLETELY rely on an AtE.

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb, less harsh please. You turn your case into an AtE and then it is AtE vs. AtE. Dun do it.


Tandora, I am well aware there could be multiple reasons regardless of flip.

There could be a result-switching role. Bus driver, illusionist, whatever; something that'll make you see something that didn't actually happen and be unaware. All sorts of crazy stuff is a possibility.

But it isn't likely.


Seph could be lying. He could be scum and could be gearing up to kill two people back to back. Claiming watcher is a great strategy as scum as it practically guarantees two townie deaths or a cop outing.

Seph could be telling the truth and maybe one of those two is a vig and the other a TOWN janitor that's really, really stupid? Maybe there's a role that flips automatically as ???/???, who knows?

But the fact is we deal with the information we have. From all accounts, the most likely scenario is that one or both of you are scum. The most likely "crazy" scenario is that one of you is a mafia member doing the NKill and the other is a janitor.

I'm pretty confident that both of you are going to die, regardless. Feel free to explain why we shouldn't.

I'll expect full claims from both of you, by the way.

 

[Overswarm]

Oh, and Teran likes teeny bopper dramas that *******ize super heroes.







(....I liked smallville when I was in high school, and LLuther was a cool character)

 

[Tandora]

Are you kidding me Tandora? You know as well as me that glg flipping scum doesn't clear you at all. I love how you can't even give me a solid reason as to why it should be the case but instead COMPLETELY rely on an AtE.

Actually I was breadcrumbing again.

I'm pretty confident that both of you are going to die, regardless. Feel free to explain why we shouldn't.

I'll expect full claims from both of you, by the way.

You know what? I thought about stalling on my claim, but I really feel it won't matter.

I'm town mason. The burglar from Spider-manfia.

I knew J was town leader and he would be looking at me. Having recruited him would help me reduce suspicion. I already stated my reasons on why I thought he would live. I tried to breadcrumb my role for the people who had been in bioware.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Tandora, please illustrate the breadcrumbs.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I thought mason

she said something about wanting J on her side

 

[Overswarm]

Giraffe, your turn.

 

[Tandora]

Tandora, please illustrate the breadcrumbs.

Sure thing. I'll cut my posts and bold the relevant parts.

A little disappointed that J died. He had really lead town yesterday and I was looking forward to playing with him. I think we could have been good friends if we could have met.

Really curious as to why Scamps died. I am assuming proof of Vig?

I know most of you, but there are some I haven't played with. Just to give a warning, I tend to be busy during the day at work, so I only am really available for posting at night. Hopefully this won't be an issue, but I would rather have it out there now than later.

I felt if I made a social call to J, it would help eliminate my scuminess. I realized I was way behind the bell curve on proving myself because my predecessor had been 100% inactive all of D1. It was bound to happen that once I started posting some attention would be on me. If J and I were friends, then I would have a reputable person on my side.

Let me get this straight. GLG flips town, I'm scum. GLG flips scum, I could be scum? Bullcrap. Gheb I thought we were friends, but I guess I was wrong. This is what I get for trying to play like OS. =/

A) Note I buddied J before Seph outed me. This is because I was breadcrumbing my role for later reference. Some people here should know what I am referencing at this point.

Basically, in Bioware, OS was a mason and he talked about having friends and hand holding a lot to breadcrumb his role. I figured since several people here had been in that game and it was quite fresh in ending, I could use the same references to get their attention. Obviously there was the chance some of them would be scum, but I figured the odds were more in my favor of there being more town.

In the end, since I am going to be proven a town PR from Seph's claim, I figure I should just give out my information. I can still use it to help prove if someone is town or scum by living or dying when I recruit them. Also, I just plain play better if I don't have a hidden agenda.

The good news is we definitely cleared Seph. I feel I should be cleared when GLG flips as scum, but YMMV. I figured since I am completely outed now, I can use my PR to look for scum. I can announce who I'll target during twilight and if I die during the night and it's not an obvious mafia kill that proves they are scum.

 

[Overswarm]

Lynch GLG.

Seph watches Tandora.

Tandora recruits player.

Assuming no manipulative roles, we either get confirmed mafia (they kill tandora) or confirmed town (they kill Seph, tandora gets recruit). Works for me.

Still need to hear from the long necked one first though.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

What if they target neither of us, and I get nothing?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

If they target neither of you, then Tandora gets to confirm a townie or a scum based on who Tandora choses.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Wasn't too keen on Tandora's AtE but then I went a checked Bioware (wasn't in that game) so see if her breadcrumb explanation lines up and it does. Can see where the frustration could come from in that regard but still it's misdirected, considering not everyone here was in that game.

But yeah, basically I'm down with this:

Lynch GLG.

Seph watches Tandora.

Tandora recruits player.

Assuming no manipulative roles, we either get confirmed mafia (they kill tandora) or confirmed town (they kill Seph, tandora gets recruit). Works for me.

Still need to hear from the long necked one first though.

Normally I'm against transparent night play like this but with the tools we have (that are already revealed anyway, so no reason not to discuss them and strategize) scum have to make some risky choices if they wanna shoot for our PRs, especially considering the potential of unrevealed roles that make it even harder to NK predictably.

Pretty much with this strat we can get a really good idea if GLG and Tandora are both scum without having to risk lynching our potential recruiting mason (i.e. super duper cop).

Gotta hear what GLG's claim is first though.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Nich, the reason my vote was on you at the end of the day was because I thought I would have arrived home on time to change my vote before the deadline (my work ended an hour before the deadline). However, I worked two hours past the end of my shift, so... yeah, I completely missed the deadline.

Had I come back, I would have voted to ensure we got a lynch.



One thing I find very suspicious. Here is the vote order since the last vote count before the end of the day (excluding the end of the day vote count):

Day 1 Vote Count
Lionel Luthor (7): frozenflame751, Gheb_01, Macman, giraffelasergun, Overswarm, SwordsRbroken, Nicholas1024
giraffelasergun (3): J, Praxis, Sephiroths Masamune
Nicholas1024 (2): Blue Yoshi, Zεη
Sephiroths Masamune (1): Xatres
Overswarm (1): X1-12

Not voting: mentosman8, Lionel Luthor, Ryker

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

The deadline is Thursday, November 4 at 11:59:59 PM.

LL: 7
GLG: 3

i hate unvoting rules =/
unvote
vote: glg

lol at tom viewing the thread

edit: and bsl

LL: 6
GLG: 4

Unvote, vote: GLG

I'll be on to switch it back later if needbe.

And as a side note, both Blue yoshi and Zen have been on in the past 5 hours, and yet both of their votes are wasted on someone with no chance of getting lynched today (me).

LL: 5
GLG: 5

praxis don't you read?

Unvote
Vote: Lionel Luther

the benefit is minimal in my eyes and I'm going to sleep and don't want to risk it, espesh when its 9 players to lynch. if we do have a vig they can still kill glg so its not much different don't like how its turned out but the switxh so far isn't filling me with confidence.

So yeah

LL can go

LL: 6
GLG: 5

(Note that you are at L-1 right now, I believe, after X1's vote)

and EBWOP: That last line should read, if you are a VT, and you are fairly convinced GLG is town. If you are a VT and think town still benefits by his removal, join us in the bandwagon and don't tell us you're a VT, same goes for if you're a PR.

...

[SIZE = 7](Note that you are at L-1 right now, I believe, after X1's vote)[/SIZE]

Nich re-votes LL, but that's irrelevant to my point.

The last votecount update was at L-2. Two people unvoted, one person re-voted. He was at L-3. I mean... the only logic that you could use that he was at L-1 was that he was at L-2, then X1-12 voted him, resulting in L-1. But... seriously... did you completely miss the two unvotes? And you were active during that time as well, even posting when the unvoting happened. So... I don't see how you could have thought it was L-1.

The only explanation I could come up with for that was you were scum, and you said that hoping people would believe you, and then they would not get enough lynches to get the lynch, resulting in a no lynch.

So, basically, the final vote count was:

LL: 7 (6 when the L-1 was stated)
GLG: 5
9 votes needed to lynch

... just... how?


Praxis... my question to you is quite obvious:

HOW COULD YOU HAVE POSSIBLY MESSED UP THE VOTE COUNT??? I mean... just... how?



For the moment, I do believe GLG is the play today (and probably will be), but seeing as he has enough votes on him at the moment and I can switch back to him at the end of the day, I'll go for Praxis for now.

Vote: Praxis

Answer my question please.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

But yeah, minus my suspicion on Praxis, OS has summed up my position at the moment:

Lynch GLG.

Seph watches Tandora.

Tandora recruits player.

Assuming no manipulative roles, we either get confirmed mafia (they kill tandora) or confirmed town (they kill Seph, tandora gets recruit). Works for me.

Still need to hear from the long necked one first though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Seph watches Tandora.

Tandora recruits player.

Assuming no manipulative roles, we either get confirmed mafia (they kill tandora) or confirmed town (they kill Seph, tandora gets recruit). Works for me.

A watcher gives you a result if the person you watch is visited by somebody. If Tandora dies recruiting mafia she is not the one who's being visited by them and therefore the watcher shouldn't get that result.

I don't know what's up with all these false claims. I don't see how you of all people could confuse that, Overswarm =/

 

[giraffelasergun]

I'm a Triceratops from Dinomafia.

@Gheb: The Confirmed innocent would be the mason tandy recruited and the confirmed scum would be the person killing tandy if she gets killed.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

GLG, any reason why you should be left alive?

Notice how he claims with flavor and yet doesn't claim his actual role.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb: The Confirmed innocent would be the mason tandy recruited and the confirmed scum would be the person killing tandy if she gets killed.

And how would he be confirmed if he was scum? Tandora dies because she visited him so the watcher won't give us anything useful in that case. And if she tells us beforehand whom she wants to recruit the mafia might be able to manipulate night actions. The ideal case is obviously for her to recruit town.

But she can't confirm scum for us, unfortunately.