A disclaimer before I start. Obviously since I'm going through a ton of stuff, a good bit of what I say is likely going to have been already said by someone. So, in b4 parroting accusations. Anyway...
The latter (originally, it was merely capitalized). I'm not particularly interesting in finding scum. At this time, there is not enough support that I can reliably count upon to further my goals with such tactics. Instead, I am attempting to appear as townie as possible.
I'll start here. Normally, trying just to appear townie instead of hunting scum would be a pretty big indicator of scum trying to hide. However, Cello knows this, so I think he said the above to bait responses (mainly from JoanBud though, as that's the person whose quote Cello was responding to with the above)
Gordito takes the bait.
Oh, and Cello. I find it peculiar, this statment:
It worries me. I see it as you're too lazy to even try to look for scum, but rather, you're going to make a foundation for you to go back to, just in case a wagon against you starts.
I'd be open to consider almost any case on anyone. I don't care about the deliverer of the message, I care about the message itself.
No, peculiar is NOT the strongest word. Probably the nicest word lol.
And when I say "foundation for you go to back to", I mean if you wanted to defend yourself later on in the game, that can easily be the first sign you say that points out "hey I am town, b****es!" (assuming you're actually that stupid as to defend your being town, rather than a scummy case on the accuser [which i don't think you are]).
I find his response... peculiar.
Seriously, I'm felling like he's trying to just sow suspicion of Cello without actually pushing a case here.
Just to get one thing clear. It's not Gordito finding Cello scummy that I dislike right here; after all, not everyone has Cello's meta. However, I DO dislike how he's subtly pushing a wagon without actually starting it. I've got my eye on you, Gordito.
Continuing...
I think Gordito is on to something to point out that you blatant don't care about hunting scum and that you just want to focus on appearing town yourself. I'd think you're indie based on that idea, except that it'd be so obvious to say that explicitly if you were indie, so surely you wouldn't say it.
Thing is, although that is a legit mentality that scum often uses, why on earth would any scum admit to it? (That, along with my meta on Cello, is why I'm so sure Cello's baiting responses.)
Now for JoanBud to take Cello's bait hard.
I hate absolutely everything Cello's said so far.
You assume that just because I haven't played SMF Mafia means I'm "out of the loop," and you also assume that, if so, I would be eager to rush into a game headfirst. Why is that? What do you base these assumptions off of?
Being cautious is important throughout the entirety of the game. This is a game of thought and perception, not random votes and half-***** suspicions. "Provoking" you (curious--do you feel provoked right now?) may or not be categorized as being cautious.
I was talking about what I quoted. No one said you were restricted from thinking about the mechanics of the game, but why would you post such useless, failed-thought information that doesn't benefit us in any way unless only please the crowd? Your posts so far have been, "Hey guys! Look! I'm Town, see?"
Being so blatant about it bothers me even more. "Scum in plain sight," perhaps? Realize that your interest as Town is finding scum, not lifting your name on a pedestal.
Odd that you should need to "attempt" to seem Town. If you truly are Town, why would you need to make corrections to your playstyle or words? Everything that you naturally say and do should point to your alignment.
Who says I'm not focused on you? I don't need to know about your social activities or life schedule, as you prompted, to get a read on you; that's simply preposterous. Your responses to my responses, your responses to others, and whatever else you say in-game is exactly enough. As of now, my thoughts on you are still hazy. The one (and only) thing I like about your posts so far are the attempt to get others involved with forming opinions. Strange, however, that you want others to give thoughts on players, yet you just got done saying you yourself "have no support to count on" for your views. What do you expect other people to formulate if you can't give any opinions yourself?
JoanBud, why do you sound so agitated? If you hate everything he's done that much, why didn't you vote him? (
Useless Side note: This post was when I first realized that Cello was baiting people with his earlier post.)
One more thing, I don't like JoanBud's emphasis on caution. When I was scum, I remember purposely delaying replies to questions for a day or two so I could see which way town thought about the issue, while as town I just go answer immediately. Recklessness can be a town-tell (and a stupid-tell sometimes, but a town-tell none the less).
I forgot to comment on Nich in my last post.
You should really let Cello speak for himself. I'm not making conclusions, but why should you care about the status of someone else if you have no idea what their alignment is (and, by the way, people can change playstyles very easily--don't make assumptions on their alignment just on that)? Let Cello make his own defenses. If he's scum, you're just easing his workload and opportunities to slip.
...what? That was the most suspicious suggestion all game. We're obviously not going to do that. Why would we have one of our own claim and narrow down the PRs to Mafia just because of this possession system? In my opinion, we can get a lot of reads from the patterns of voting in this particular game. Don't designate the hammer to one person (especially not in the matter you suggest). Let people vote and hammer as they please, and in turn, let people get their reads.
JoanBud seems very determined to just tear down anything and anyone related to Cello. Watch as EP steps in and JB attacks in response.
What do you have gain by asking this? It's wifom. Obviously, whether he is town or scum he's gonna answer that he bolded the warning because he wanted us to notice it. Like he's gonna admit he just wanted us to notice he gave it, if he's scum. And any theorizing that this is the reason he did it is a heck of alot of wifom and doesn't really gain us information.
You've apparently missed that he already admitted to wanting to appear Town. Read his response to mine, in which he clearly states that he did "the latter" (which, in case you somehow aren't aware, means the second). And are you kidding about not having anything to gain from asking that? Even if he would've responded with, "So you guys could notice it," there are still certain trends and attitudes to gather in his response. Every reaction can supply suspicions and reads.
On the first point - he was clearly being sarcastic, he said your question isn't even worth responding to.
And the second point - fair enough, you can contribute to reads out of almost everything, but the point I'm making is that you are harassing everyone for possibly doing things just to appear town, when ironically, you are also asking questions that could be more focused on making yourself appear pro town than helping town as well. You can point this type of behavior to everything, including yourself. Yes, questioning it can help contribute to known informaiton and reads, but don't you think your priorities should be somewhere else? I only ask because you already have a lot of instinces of doing this to a couple of different people.
Again, you've missed things. When Cello said that there was "no response worth giving," he was referring to responding my answer to his questions (the "no and no" part). That's why he said "skip," notifying that he skipped that moment from quoting me.
Let's stop right there. So far I've accused one person of the crowd pleasing charade (cello). Is that "everyone?" You seem to want to make a much bigger deal out of my "harassment" than what it actually is.
Care to give some examples of this? Every question and accusation I've made so far have been for the purpose of furthering my reads on people and, ultimately, hunting scum. If you have issues with my posts--if you feel that I'm also only concerned with the good of my name--then please support that. Post with your evidence, specifics, and whatever other suspicions you have, and I'll get right back to you.
You just asked me if my priorities should be somewhere other than gathering information? In the kindest of ways, I will respond with simply saying no.
Again, who are these "couple of people" that aren't Cello and Cello?
I dislike JB right now, not so much because of any one thing, but moreso because of the relentless "You disagree with me, therefore you're SCUM" attitude I'm getting from every post. JB seems more concerned with massacring every one of Cello's points than scumhunting right now, and that bothers me.
I agree with the first half of Swiss's #114 (which is basically the above paragraph) big-time, and I like his N0 cop gambit. Town read on Swiss.
this was funny to me b/c nich is really playing up to cello, which if you're scum is the best way to get cello off your back. he even goes to point out "cello's going after me, but despite this, i think he's town =3" seems like he's playing up to cello to me.
*small snip*
vote nicholas
Obviously, I have a problem with this. Here's why:
Evidence #1:
Mayling claims to have a town read on Cello, AND is attacking one of Cello's big suspects (me). What's the big difference between what you did and what you claim I did?
Evidence #2:
Would you have found it scummy if I attacked Cello purely for attacking me? If not, why? If so, then this means you found me scummy purely for going with a town-read on Cello (since once Cello attacked me you'd find me scummy regardless of my response). Therefore, you're implicating yourself with your own logic.
Lost my original reply so I'll type it again.
Swiss, I don't know why you'd make that claim. Your information is false, so I can only assume one of the following options are true:
A: You are insane N0 cop. That's a ******** role. It sets town up to mislynch both D1 and D2. Bad game design. Do we know our moderator well enough to know if she/he would have made such a weird role? I haven't played with many of you including this mod, so I don't know what to assume about the game design. We already know we have a wacky game design, so maybe insane N0 cop is a legit possibility.
B: You are scum. If this is the case, you made a boneheaded play. You seem to have a reputation in this crowd that suggests that you are not a bonehead. Therefore, I can't understand what motivation you would have to fake claim right now. You should expect to get lynched D2 when I flip town. If you're scum, you know for a fact that I'm town, which means you know for a fact that you just drew MAJOR attention to yourself. It doesn't seem to be in your self interest to pull a trick like this...unless...
C: You are a jester. This seems to me to be the most likely scenario. Which brings me to another thought: If my breakdown of the options is as obvious as I think it is, doesn't that mean that you should EXPECT people to think you're a jester and not want to kill you. Meaning you COULD be scum feigning jester by way of feigning N0 cop. Which is reinforced by my "you're no bonehead" comment. I know it's a long train of logic to guess something like that, but it makes sense to me.
Either way, you're anti-town. vote: Swiss
Just wanted to say that I think Xastrn's response to the whole N0 cop thing was reasonable enough. Covers most of the possibilities and draws a reasonable conclusion.
I disliked J's first post after that long spell of lurking. I mean, if you're going to take the time to type out a reply of that size, couldn't you make it about... game-related matters instead of just excuses for inactivity and small-talk?
As for J's first post with any real scumhunting...
@JoanBud: Why has all of your information gathering been reactive instead of proactive? You've not yet once taken the initiative and questioned anyone without them first coming into contact with you, despite the fact that you appear to be wracked with doubt about everyone's alignment. And, you still don't have a single solid read.
Oh, also, post #190...J was CLEARLY twisting what smargaret had said to make it look bad, and even then did a terrible job of it.
Bolded portion. J said nothing about this, even though it is the same sentiment that smargaret had; a willingness to lynch a townie in order to out a scum. Why did you give J credit for twisting smargaret's words? Why was it acceptable for J to apply to a double standard?
@smargaret: In the Decisive Games main forum, the number of replies to a thread is a link to the number of posts a person has in that thread, which is in turn a link to those posts.
Who do you think is scummier than me?
Also, I mini-lol'd @ Avy.
@All: Can we go ahead and lynch J, JoanBud or May? I'm bored.
I agree with everything in this post.
3/4ths of the way through the thread now, but I think this is enough to post.
Scum picks: Mayling, JoanBud, and J (in that order).
Reasons:
Mayling for attacking me for buddying Cello WHILE doing the exact same thing.
JoanBud for basically attacking everyone that disagrees with anything that JoanBud says. It's like a playstyle built around OMGUS. (Oh my gosh you suck)
Cello sums up the case against J pretty well with this:
Oh, also, post #190...J was CLEARLY twisting what smargaret had said to make it look bad, and even then did a terrible job of it.
Bolded portion. J said nothing about this, even though it is the same sentiment that smargaret had; a willingness to lynch a townie in order to out a scum. Why did you give J credit for twisting smargaret's words? Why was it acceptable for J to apply to a double standard?
Anyways, a little Q&A session... (since I know someone's going to ask them if they haven't been asked of me already)
Q: Why do you trust Cello so much?
A: He's played exactly like my town/indy meta on him so far. Think of it like a pseudo-cop report on his alignment: I can't eliminate the possibility of indy, but I'm pretty sure he's not mafia, so I'll follow him for now.
Q: Why do your scumpicks align with Cello's so perfectly?
A: Because Cello's scumpicks make sense, and I agree with the reasoning behind them. Plus, Cello's track record for finding scum is pretty good. He was perfect on finding scum in DBZ until the very last day, and he nailed all 3 mafia in tree stump as well.
Q: Why haven't you given town much to work with?
A: Because
1) I've been pretty busy in RL, and
2) When I did get some time to check the game, I had to defend against accusations from Cello and others and haven't been able to work up much motivation to scumhunt.
I understand that the above doesn't excuse me and that so far I haven't really played that well. Anyway, I plan to put my previous inactivity behind me and continue onwards now.
