[M-1/2/10/17/22] Oddworld Mafia -- END! Town won!

[Mayling]

@Swiss and Mayling: Do you guys think Cello's way too much in his rush for J's lynch or do you think its justified considering the behavior and claim of J?

considering what i've seen from cello's past games, it pretty much falls in line with what i would expect him to do. i knew he was going to say pretty much his reasoning in his latest post. basically cello feels if we let J go now, we'll switch to someone else later in the day, but he feels J is scum and doesn't want to let them go. It's sort of how we switched from J to joanbud. from what i read and if i recalled right, everyone thought J was going to be the lynch but switched to joanbud. it's sort of like that, but cello thinks we will be switching to a townie.

 

[Xastrn]

Yes.

If we don't lynch J now, someone will **** up and we'll end up lynching a townie now. It's the same thing that would have happened if he hadn't lynched "early".

Here's one disadvantage; if you don't fall in line, then I'll dig up something that makes you look like scum and convince everyone that it's the honest-to-goodness truth. If you make us wait, then it's bound to happen to someone; no one will want to lynch J because they want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and a Night) for that spew about his investigation, and if that's the case, we might as well get rid of someone that's not going to be helpful to my Town.

@Cello: Dude, seriously? This is not the way to play. You don't bully someone who you believe is town by threatening to get them lynched for not "falling in line." That's a terrible play. Get off your high horse and answer the questions people are asking you.

Who did you watch?

Why are you so insistent on lynching J?

Why are you so sure Gord is doc and not scum tricking you into thinking he's doc?

@EP: I still think it's possible the both Gord and X1 are scum. They've been linked together multiple times (particularly with both vying for the other to hammer) and other than arguing about past games (not a substantial argument when it comes to this game) they haven't gone after each other much. Not sure if 402/404 plays into it too strong. Not saying that it's definite, but I'd like to keep the possibility open to discussion.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Let me just start off by saying that I'm definitely NOT the doc. I'm not scum, but I'm NOT the doc.

@Cello: I've got two theories as to what your night action was.

Either A) You targeted smarg and saw that J targeted him. If he was the only targeter, then you might as well come out and say it so we can lynch him. If there were multiple targets, then you need J's role to know who the other person's role is.

or B) You targeted yourself, and saw that Gord and/or J targeted you. If both, then we've likely got a vig or sk on our hands, because smarg still died in the night. If only J, then I don't see why you'd keep insisting on lynching. If Gord, then I could see why you think he's doc, but I don't see why it would affect your insistence on lynching J.

The two reasons above are actually really good scenarios, and one of them are probably the right scenario. In A, J is the obvscum. And in B, it may SEEM like I'm the doc, but I'd like to see Cello's response to this A-B scenario.

@Gord: The reason Cello thinks you are doc is because you are the only player to mention the doc repeatedly this entire game. Usually this is either a doc tell or a scum tell. Cello is choosing to read it as Doc. We read it as scum.

I don't even purposely do it. There's no way of PROVING that, but I'm serious.

This is, I believe, your third of fourth mention of the doc this game. Like I said before, mentioning the Doc 3rd person is a good way to advertise that you are the doc. I'm sure you'll use on OMGIS excuse for this. I think that's why I think you're scum. This quotation is extremely hammy, like you're trying to "accidentally" give it away. Now that Cello's picked up on it you're playing dumb. Seems like a nice way of keeping suspicion off yourself.

Not OMGIS, but I just don't see it that way.

Again, as I stated in the first post I ever made against you, this sucking up to Cello is too hammy and unbelievable. You want too hard to be liked by the most obvious town in the bunch. Moves like this say "phony" to me. And when I hear "phony," I also here "scum."

I don't care about being liked by him. He already believes I'm town by his posts. That was just a joke. Chill out.

Again, it should matter if J sucks or is inactive. Yes, this is not pro-town play, but you should never rush a lynch on someone being not pro-town when there's still time to find people who are anti-town. We (Dastrn and I) made this same cry yesterday and we lynched a mafia watcher. "Trimming the fat" is not pro-town at all. It's pro-scum.

Trimming the fat is indeed pro town. I can't really see anyone else as scum, and lurking is another way of saying inactive. And besides, in lylo, do you want an inactive, absolutely useless person? No. Cuz the inactive isn't getting NK'd by the scum, and most likely won't get lynched, unless it comes down to trimming the fat.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Crazy ninja'd. Reading up now.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@EP: Mafia cop usually checks PR/non-PR. It might or might not change if a townie gets it; that's up to Kat. Even then, if it's just the normal town cop, then that makes that scum effectively a goon. So, it would be important for scum to protect that member, even though he doesn't give the scum team any actual abilities.

@Xastrn: There is no vig/SK. If J and I had both targeted smargaret, I'd have mentioned that. It's pretty obvious that I targeted myself; but then again, it's obvious that J is scum. I guess I shouldn't expect you to see that.

I'm insisting on lynching J for all the scummy **** he's done. I didn't put it all into a nice little list (yet, I'd hoped to avoid that, but I'm seeing it has to be done), but if you'd bother to read, you'd see it is there.

I'm not answering your doc question.


Also, just in case people have forgotten why we think J is scummy in the first place:

1) He was constantly dropping by the thread all throughout the day and yet did not post ANYTHING worthwhile, even while at L-1. J is apologizing and lurking, just like Mister Eric in Newbie 3. JoanBud accepted J's double standard of evaluation for Summoner and smargaret. Why didn't he jump on it to get J lynched? J is his partner.
2) JoanBud was pushing us away from lynching J when he didn't think town realized he was scum. Further, he stopped doing that when he realized his lynch was inevitable.
3) smargaret is the only one amongst us who actually said she thought J was scummy other than myself. smargaret was Night Killed. Simple people use simple tactics.
4) Scum tend to try to lump together groups of people and insert themselves in those groups so that they don't accidently give information. In JoanBud's #188, he had "no read" on Mayling, smargaret, GorditoBoy and J. Of these people, only J is scummy (if you disagree with me on that point, then you can wait until GorditoBoy dies toNight and flips town)
5) TWO POSTS after JoanBud claims to have no read on those four people, he then got that soft-town read on both smargaret and J. Again, obscuring characteristics of groups.
6) Who the **** goes invisible because he "didn't want to give the wrong impression of being online when I could not post at all?" That's stupid, and an obvious lie. Anyone that has that kind of foresight wouldn't have BEEN WATCHING THE THREAD THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND NOT POSTING, AND THUS GETTING INTO THAT SORT OF TROUBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It's kind of like the question, "What do you do with jackpot lottery winnings?" I would invest it in common market stocks. But, anyone who was playing the lottery in the first place wouldn't possibly think of that.

 

[Xastrn]

@Cello: Calm down. Threatening people and getting angry that you have to explain yourself doesn't help your cause. You rapid-fire question people all the time. Don't be offended if it gets turned back at you every now and there. Here are two more simple questions for you.

A) If J is scum, who do you think is Mafia #3

B) Did anyone target you last night other than Gord? I assume he targeted you given your insistence that he's doc. If he didn't, who did, if anyone?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Cello, stop being an a hole.

You targeted yourself. That means doc DIDN'T target you. If you need me to claim to PROVE it, itll also prove that J wasn't lying about the may or may not get his action back thing.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And yes, I did target Cello last Night.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Xastrn: Maybe you should learn to read.

@Gordito: I didn't get any results, so you roleblocked me; that means you aren't scum. But, how does that explain Nick and J not getting results?

 

[Xastrn]

And yes, I did target Cello last Night.

If you are not doc, then there are only so many standard roles you could have. For most of these, it wouldn't make any sense for you to target Cello, given that you've shown yourself confident that he is town.

Tracker: If you're sure Cello is town, then there's no reason for you to see who he targeted. He would just tell us during the day (as we've now seen.)

Cop: If you're cop, you should be countering J's claim. Also, given that your so confident Cello is town, targeting him would be a waste.

Poison Doc/Firefighter/Bodyguard/Ect: Your pretty dead set on claiming against doc. I find it unlikely that you would simply be splitting hairs on some variable role.

The standard role I can think of left would be bus driver. In that case, you would have switched Cello and smargaret. However, why switch Cello with someone who seemed pro-town. Why not switch him with someone scummy, like J, so as to turn your switch role into a scum killing role?

I still don't believe you are doc. If you are anything but doctor, I would say that you are a Mafia Tracker. The mafia having a watcher and tracker would fit with this possession machanic and offer the Mafia nice symmetry (Watcher/Tracker/Goon or Watcher/Tracker/Roleblocker). By watching Cello, you could find out what he knows and be better able to deal with him during the day.

Anyways, this will be my last post of the night. I need sleep.

 

[Xastrn]

Ninja'd.

@Gordito: I didn't get any results, so you roleblocked me; that means you aren't scum. But, how does that explain Nick and J not getting results?

@Cello: If you didn't get results, how would you know that it was Gord that Roleblocked you? Are you suggesting he's some kind of jailkeeper? How else would getting roleblocked indicate that Gordito isn't scum? This is really not making any sense.

Okay, signing off for real. There have been a lot of developments tonight, and I'd like a chance to talk to Dastrn before pushing things forward more.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

And yes, I did target Cello last Night.

Wait are you claiming you targetted Cello as a doc or as some other role? (please don't reveal the role if its the other one)

Though Cello just threw out in the open that he was role blocked apparantly.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ughh... I'm the Voyeur. I howled Cello because I wanted to see if he would be NK'd.

@Cello, I didn't get my results either. And in my original Role PM, I was told that I may or may NOT get my results. Obviously, I didn't get my results. And J's story matched up with EXACTLY what happened in mine. I understand you not being aware of this, being a VT. You didn't get the word-for-word role claim, and you might not have been notified about POSSIBLY getting your results. But J, Nich, you, and I didn't get our results at all. So I'm hoping that we can all get the results toNight.

And oh, by the way, I guess I'm not getting NK'd.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ninja'd. Sorry EP :|. But I shouldn't just cause confusion through the town this entire Day.

 

[Swiss]

X-1 better post soon buddai.

Why are people literally outing themselves as PR's?

J's awareness of this not getting your result mechanic does not indicate town alignment, merely mechanic knowledge, Joan may have known the same.

Gord did manage to out himself as town PR, I hence drop my scummy reservations on him, he's useful as an extra vote and for his PR.

Too much has happened. Need to re-read.

 

[Swiss]

J pretty much only parroted what I said about him, and explained a way in which he may not have been lying. We cannot know which. I believe he has a PR, I do not believe he is town sane cop.

Cello, why can't there be a mafia roleblocker? (Still only skimmed)

Vote J

L-3/4

Probably.

 

[Kataefi]

Vote Count:

[3] J: Nicholas1024 / Mayling / Swiss
[1] Cello_Marl: J
[1] GorditoBoy69: Xastrn

[0] Swiss
[0] SummonerAU
[0] X1-12
[0] EdreesesPieces
[0] Xastrn
[0] Nicholas1024
[0] Mayling

[5] Not Voting: SummonerAU / X1-12 / EdreesesPieces / GorditoBoy69 / Cello_Marl

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Deadline set for Tuesday, October 5th, Noon GMT.

 

[SummonerAU]

back from v/la (I didn't annouce it here because it was night) no motivation to put effort into reading through the thread atm (train trip johns) so yeah, bug me tomorrow.

 

[Mayling]

Ughh... I'm the Voyeur. I howled Cello because I wanted to see if he would be NK'd.

@Cello, I didn't get my results either. And in my original Role PM, I was told that I may or may NOT get my results. Obviously, I didn't get my results. And J's story matched up with EXACTLY what happened in mine. I understand you not being aware of this, being a VT. You didn't get the word-for-word role claim, and you might not have been notified about POSSIBLY getting your results. But J, Nich, you, and I didn't get our results at all. So I'm hoping that we can all get the results toNight.

And oh, by the way, I guess I'm not getting NK'd.

a voyeur is a tracker right?

what do you mean j's story matched up exactly with yours?

what's the point of PRs if they don't work???

 

[Cello_Marl]

@May: Voyeur targets a player and learns what was done to them, as compared to who did it, which would be watcher.

@Swiss: It would be pretty stupid if mafia could just roleblock whatever power was gained during the Night. So, I'm assuming that there isn't one.

 

[Mayling]

@gord, then you saw what was done to cello. other than you was there anything done to him?

 

[Mayling]

derpaherp nevermind he didn't get results

 

[Dastrn]

A lotta action while I was asleep. I'm getting ready for work so no time for my big analysis, but here are some small thoughts:

@Cello, do you always turn into a commandeering a-hole D2? I'm not judging it, I'm just curious if this is part of your consistent playstyle.
@everyone, same question. Have you seen this behavior from Cello in other games?

@J, this might swing right back on you. Give us your thoughts, mr. "I'll be way more active now..." Also, it might be a good idea to replace out of your other games, so you don't end up getting fast lynched for inactivity in all of them.

 

[Swiss]

K, good.

Would lynch J, X1.

 

[Xastrn]

@Swiss: Joan couldn't have known about the results mechanic, because there was no N0. However, if J is mafia and there is another mafia PR then he could have found out that way.

@Gord: If you were voyeur, targeting Cello still makes no sense. You say you wanted to see if he would be NKed, but if he had been, we would have found out in the morning. If we had woken up with no one dead, then we'd have known he'd been saved by doc. Targeting Cello N1 was a wasted use of your claimed ability, especially since you seemed so sure of those results during D1. I also think your claim about not getting results is BS. You are copying what J and Nick have said to make your claim more legitimate.

@Gordito: I didn't get any results, so you roleblocked me; that means you aren't scum. But, how does that explain Nick and J not getting results?

@Cello: Please explain this quote, because it doesn't make any sense. If you were roleblocked, how would you know Gord did it? If you thought he roleblocked you, how would that make him not scum? Shouldn't that be a clear sign that he is scum? You were positive he was doc, but if you were roleblocked then you don't have any real evidence to support it. Why are you so positive that he's town at all when he's been dropping scum-tells the entire game?

@Everyone: Cello is not playing the same way toDay as he did yesterDay. His tone is different. His technique is different. And his arguments are different. He's not making any sense about Gord and being unreasonable about the J lynch. Be wary.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Xastrn
Gordito claiming makes it all moot I guess, but I wouldn't have speculated on his role. And yes, this is definitely Cello's playstyle.

 

[Xastrn]

He really turns into a giant douche D2 in every town-aligned game? He stops scumhunting and starts acting like he's king of town? That's a craptastic playstyle. I want D1 Cello back.

 

[Xastrn]

@Nick: What do you think of the Cello quote I had in my last post?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Xastrn
So, you think Gord's claim would have been more believable if he HAD gotten results unlike both claims so far? Sorry, but I don't buy that. Also, mafia roleblocker would totally kill the possesion mechanic (as Cello has already stated), so that's why he thought Gord-roleblocker would mean Gord-town. Why are you trying to get us to distrust Cello? Between the D1 scum lynch plus Cello's meta, there is no way at all that Cello is mafia here. In fact...

@Everyone
Xastrn is not playing the same way toDay as he did yesterDay. His tone is different. His technique is different. And his arguments are different. He's not making any sense about J and being unreasonable about the Gord lynch. Be wary.

 

[Nicholas1024]

He really turns into a giant douche D2 in every town-aligned game? He stops scumhunting and starts acting like he's king of town? That's a craptastic playstyle. I want D1 Cello back.

Um... I haven't seen a difference between D1 Cello and D2 Cello. Right now, Cello's just REALLY sure of a read, and doing everything possible to get that read acted on. The only difference between toDay and yesterDay is that he's having a bit more trouble convincing people.

Also, as far as the Cello quote, perhaps he WAS roleblocked by idiot town. Since he thought Gord visited him, he'd obviously think Gord was the roleblocker.

 

[Xastrn]

@Nich: I made the same arguments yesterday against Gord as I made today. My technique hasn't changed at all. I'm just pointing out that Cello's reasoning in that quote made no sense.

If Gord is a town roleblocker (as Cello seemed to think), why the heck would he target Cello?

If Gord did target Cello with a roleblock, why would that make Cello think Gord is town?

Do you see the inconsistency there?

If Gord is a voyeur, why would he target Cello during N1, when Cello is the player with the most likely actions to be taken against him? He was either getting NKed or Doctored, or both. Using a voyeur power on Cello would be a waste of a power. My statement about the weird results was not to say that Gord is telling the truth about being voyeur and lying about weird results. It was just to say that if Gord were mafia and wanted to claim a town PR, he HAS to make the same claim as you and J, otherwise no one would believe him. Anyone claiming to get weird results at this point shouldn't get bonus points for claiming it, because Mafia will be sure to mention it just as much as town.

 

[Xastrn]

Um... I haven't seen a difference between D1 Cello and D2 Cello./QUOTE]

The dude threatened an obvious town with a lynch for not "falling in line" and has been claiming that this is "his town." I don't recall Cello posting this way D1.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Xastrn
Please reread my arguments. I already answered both questions regarding the Gord-cello-roleblock thing.

 

[Xastrn]

Also, mafia roleblocker would totally kill the possesion mechanic (as Cello has already stated), so that's why he thought Gord-roleblocker would mean Gord-town.

Again, if Gord were town-roleblocker, why the heck would he target Cello?

If he did target Cello, how did Cello know Gord targeted him BEFORE Gord came out and admitted it?

Also, as far as the Cello quote, perhaps he WAS roleblocked by idiot town. Since he thought Gord visited him, he'd obviously think Gord was the roleblocker.

The "idiot-town" argument doesn't apply here. Cello has been the most obvious pro-town player this entire game and had just gained a one-shot PR ability. How idiot would an idiot-town have to be to roleblock Cello?

Why are you trying to get us to distrust Cello? Between the D1 scum lynch plus Cello's meta, there is no way at all that Cello is mafia here.

Because his position on Gord makes no sense. Either he is hiding some other inside information or he's so blinded by his "need" to lynch J that he's gone off his rocker. It's not about calling Cello scum. I don't think he is. But he's not reasoning straight right now.

 

[Xastrn]

Gord is either doc or scum. When it looked like he we had proof of him targeting Cello, he claimed a weaker role to cover himself, even though it would make no sense for him to use voyeur power on Cello N1. Then, when Cello admitted his was roleblocked, Gord was stuck with his BS claim.

Also, Mafia roleblocker makes perfect sense.

1. With the possession mechanic, it would make sense for all the mafia to have some kind of PR ability. Watcher/Tracker/Other is the most likely setup.

2. We know Cello, who had absorbed the watcher ability, got roleblocked.

3. Idiot-town roleblocker makes no sense, as reasoned above.

4. Possession balances against the mafia having a lot of PR and Mafia Roleblocker balances against possession. If the mafia are stuck using their roleblocker against the hammer, then they can't use it against town-aligned PR. However, they can protect themselves against the town stealing all their abilities.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Do not underestimate the potential stupidity of players. In DBZ Cello was jailed N1 (basically a RB, as he had claimed bulletproof) despite being the most pro-town player in the game. Believe me, I've seen a LOT of worse things on this site.

 

[X1-12]

And what it means is that you can hide behind your "pro townness cuz I got 2 scum lynched". Ryker bussed both of his scum buddies in Batma(n)fia in D2 and D3, and won it in endgame. You might be here thinking that you can do the same and nobody's gonna notice.

Okay this is the worst attack, firstly you are assuming that as I killed 2 scum I am scum ¬¬, also you can't attack people for what they might do in the future

Hey, X1, vote for J. You wanted pressure on him, right?

Major word twisting, I said I wanted him to post.

But I have suspicions on X1, especially his quietness today. I think that either Gordito or X1 is scum, but I don't think they both are, largely in part for Dastrn's reasons, but not both largely because of this exchange 402-404. Not sure which yet though.

@X1 can you chime in? What do you think of J's claim?
@Swiss and Mayling: Do you guys think Cello's way too much in his rush for J's lynch or do you think its justified considering the behavior and claim of J?

OK, same goes to anyone else who asks:

I live in ENGLAND, I got to sleep and wake up atleast 5 hours before you, I often don't post before school in the morning (I'm posting this having just got back at 4pm)

wrt J: I'm inclined to believe it, the first post says 'welcome to oddworld mafia, and it is an odd world indeed!'

@Xastrn: Maybe you should learn to read.

@Gordito: I didn't get any results, so you roleblocked me; that means you aren't scum. But, how does that explain Nick and J not getting results?

Assuming this is true, did you check whether you got no result as opposed to getting roleblocked? was the distinction made?


General stuff: I don't find Swiss particularly scummy, but the fact he thinks I'm scum is very odd, this kid knows how to read me and the fact he is wrong about me is very suspicious in my eyes

Cello: is just being cello


others I'm just having a hard time getting a solid read on

 

[X1-12]

This:

Wait are you claiming you targetted Cello as a doc or as some other role? (please don't reveal the role if its the other one)

Though Cello just threw out in the open that he was role blocked apparantly.

10 minutes pass


then this:

Ughh... I'm the Voyeur. I howled Cello because I wanted to see if he would be NK'd.

@Cello, I didn't get my results either. And in my original Role PM, I was told that I may or may NOT get my results. Obviously, I didn't get my results. And J's story matched up with EXACTLY what happened in mine. I understand you not being aware of this, being a VT. You didn't get the word-for-word role claim, and you might not have been notified about POSSIBLY getting your results. But J, Nich, you, and I didn't get our results at all. So I'm hoping that we can all get the results toNight.

And oh, by the way, I guess I'm not getting NK'd.

Assuming he is lying about the ninja, this is very scummy, it sounds like you are saying this merely so that when J flips town, your story will match up.

 

[X1-12]

EBWOP: Nick did that too, hmm, I think Nick had some connections with JB as well..



also, I think I just found a scum slip:

And in my original Role PM.

Care to explain?

 

[Mayling]

this game made me hate playing with cello