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[M-1/2/10/17/22] Oddworld Mafia -- END! Town won!

Xastrn

Dastrn|Xatres
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
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239
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Dastrn and Xatres Hydra
Vanilla Townie.

Seems like we were right about J AND right about X1 being toDay's play. I don't know if that makes us the MVP or Edreeses (great idea to post that now, bro. It wasn't too early. It will finish this game D3 for us, I think...)

I won't be able to chat with Xatres about the game until probably 6pm or so, whenever I get home from work. That time is extremely variable, though. I have court this morning with a client, and then lots to do, since I (we) are going on vacation on Thursday morning for 5 days. We'll still post while on Vacation. I'm pretty sure my folks have wifi at their beach house in MD.

Anyways, just wanted that schedule issue out there for you all. We WONT post for most of thursday, since we have a 12 hour drive, plus a stop to drop Xatres off at his girlfriend's house, as well as the following Monday because we will be driving back to Indiana on that day.

I've got my eye on X1 and Mayling right now. Mayling's got RL johns (congrats!) for her lack of major activity thus far, but that doesn't mean it isn't still scum-like. But it DOES mean that X1 is probably the play for now.

@X1: Claim nublet. Let's see what you got.
 

Kataefi

*smoke machine*
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
igloo


Vote Count:

[2] J: Nicholas1024 / Mayling
[2] GorditoBoy69: Xastrn / X1-12
[1] Cello_Marl: J
[1] X1-12: Swiss

[0] Swiss
[0] SummonerAU
[0] EdreesesPieces
[0] Xastrn
[0] Nicholas1024
[0] Mayling

[4] Not Voting: SummonerAU / EdreesesPieces / GorditoBoy69 / Cello_Marl

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Deadline set for Tuesday, October 5th, Noon GMT.

_

@Cello: Hai =) If the information is not pending then you will inherit it for as long as you are the role you possessed. No to your 2nd question about J.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
@Everyone but Cello
You guys are all missing the point big time. The question isn't whether Joan is the cop or not, because that's pretty obviously confirmed. However, the question is, is Joan MAFIA cop, or town cop? Before you dismiss the possibility out of hand, I'd like to point out that we already have a mafia watcher. So, why not a mafia cop? It's not like this type of role is unseen on smashboards either. I'd like you all to go to the Dgames Archive, and just check the setup of scum wars. There we had a scum governor (who could and did cancel his own lynch to clear himself >.<) and a scum doublevoter (who could similarly demonstrate his ability to clear himself). I'm just worried that everyone's going to clear J because of his claim, when his play hasn't done anything but implicate himself.

@Cello
I'll have to think about that. Right now I'm just focused on J.
 

SummonerAU

Smash Lord
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You used Joan twice there Nich. I've played in a game with mafia cop and doc. You should claim as well, I forgot you were in the game. There's a hole in that as well. EP confirmed that the cop got an alignment result. Scum cops don't get alignment results.

Really feeling Nich is scum from that post there guys.

Vote:Nicholas1024
 

Dastrn

BRoomer
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Jul 16, 2005
Messages
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Indiana
Would a scum cop get role instead of alignment? Are there variations on scum cop? can someone break down the options for us? I am mostly unfamiliar with that sort of role, since this is only my 2nd or 3rd Dgames mafia game, and I've never been scum in this room as far as I can remember. (1 or 2 times I've been scum in Broom games).
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Why couldn't a scum cop get an alignment result? After all, it wouldn't be effective in throwing town off if the assistant could just go "Nope, no cop report was sent in". True, the PR's ability isn't that useful to scum, but it's an invaluable safeclaim. And wow, can't believe I confused Joan and J. :urg:
 

SummonerAU

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.
Nich, why would Kat give mafia a useless role just to mess with our heads when he could just make that scumrole a goon and give them a vanilla safeclaim?. Lynching J is a bad idea and the way you're pushing is bad.

Are you against roleclaiming?
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Nich, why would Kat give mafia a useless role just to mess with our heads when he could just make that scumrole a goon and give them a vanilla safeclaim?. Lynching J is a bad idea and the way you're pushing is bad.

Are you against roleclaiming?
Why wouldn't he? Why would Xiivi give scum 2 incredibly powerful PR safeclaims as well as giving town a pair of red herring roles in Dgames? Why would Steel make a scum governor in Scum wars? For crying out loud summoner, does this setup SEEM normal to you? I am NOT going to clear ANYONE based purely on their role in a game like this like this.

And yeah, I'm against any more roleclaiming. Not happy at all that EP outed his assistant role like that.
 

Cello_Marl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
0
Rereading, I realize I misread what J was saying about Summoner; I thought J thought he was getting a role, not that a role could be blocking his investigation. J...probably isn't scum, just really stupid.

That being said, if J were to only get alignment results, he probably wouldn't have sent one out at all if he were scum. It's still possible that he is scum either because he : 1) has to send one out, like a Serial Killer (which might explain why Night took so long), or 2) normally gets role results, but the analyst gets alignment.

Nick, go ahead and role claim and target claim.
 

Nicholas1024

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Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
All right, I'm the town Forensic investigator. During the day, I can scan any dead player in the game, and I will find out who visited them on the night of their death, however I may or may not receive said result. (I asked Kat, and he said the power is once per day use). D1 I investigated the NPC (no good reason not to), and was told that the scan failed. D2 I investigated smargaret, and got the results sent in for analysis.
 

Nicholas1024

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Nick, I said claim, not private message someone.
Heh. I was double-checking to make sure I had all the info right. My role is why I was sure there's some funny business going on with the analysis, because it would be incredi-broken if it worked correctly.
 

Cello_Marl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
0
That would mean that J was probably double-checking his results when I asked him about it. It's also why he didn't know what day I was referring to; the obvious conclusion of "the same day he asked" didn't apply since he hadn't sent one out. Scum wouldn't be double-checking their results if they were using an alignment cop fake-claim either. So, that would make J town.
 

Cello_Marl

Smash Rookie
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EdreesesPieces's roleclaim was the best thing that could have happened to us, by the way.
 

Dastrn

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EdreesesPieces's roleclaim was the best thing that could have happened to us, by the way.
I absolutely agree.

@ Nich, I can't imagine why you don't like EP's info. It's a HUGE gambit if it's not true, as he would get caught N2 without question, and then we'd have 2 scum lynches out of 3 days at WORST. It's gotta be true. Therefore, it's gotta be good for us to have all that info. We have a coastable win as town at this point. X1 is almost DEFINITELY scum. Mayling should get lynched D3, IMO. This game is almost over.
 

Xastrn

Dastrn|Xatres
Joined
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239
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Dastrn and Xatres Hydra
I apologize. I keep forgetting to switch browsers when I post. I realize that posting on two different accounts makes it annoying to search through out posts. I'll try to remember.
 

SummonerAU

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You missed my point before Nich, none of those roles were useless to scum. Safeclaims aren't roles.

EP, does this match anything you have?
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,075
Ah, I see your point Cello (about EP). His roleclaim basically confirms a bunch of roles. I'm not completely sold on J-town yet, but I'm willing to go with X1. What L- is he at?

@Summoner
It would be useless as a safeclaim if assistant could just go "Nope, no cop report sent in". It's basically a role that's valued mainly for the safeclaim.
 

SummonerAU

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Unvote, Vote: X-1

J, really isn't anywhere close to the play today anymore Nich.
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
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Oct 18, 2009
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Southampton, UK
i don't like x1 very much. before looking back on his posts, i know a large lot of them didn't contain any information. looking back on them, i noticed a trend:


post 120 he says he'll give more on xastrn later, and in post 121 (after a "re-read") he votes them. no explanation.
I wanted to check whether pressure-wagonning Xastrn was worth it or not, I thought it was, there wasn't very much to lose and it may reveal something when and if he cracked

in post 165 he comments on xastrn, but only after swiss's fakeclaim, in which x1 says xastrn played it cool.
Yeah he did play it pretty cool, it could be confident town or confident scum

he gets onto joanbud for playing the NOOB card, but later plays it himself. i guess this could have been a joke.
I wasn't playing the noob card, I was saying its unlikely we will get NK'ed because we are new, not justifying scummy behaviour claiming it was a noobish accident


I was saying not sure if dumb or scum? gordito (OMFG I mentioned him again) pointed out his post saying he was not a newbie, I then voted for him.

Would it not have been a waste if cello hammered then was killed and we lost him and that NK ability?



after a day of not really doing anything, he proposes really weird questions. nich has made his opinions very plain on cello.
I asked questions to Nick to get him to post, he was fairly inactive D1

mainly i dislike things such as this because he continues to give very vague explanations, especially why does he think I'm town? why the sudden switch on gordito? no explanation, no quotes, which is useful. just "this is what i think. this is what i'm going with." he seems bear.
Gordito started playing in a way which I found unlike him (he's been in 3 of my games, all recent, and I vote for him, there's plenty of evidence for what I'm saying in plain sight)

Acutally, now that I'm thinking about it, his meta is very not on his side, and your read on him is great imo.

In Taco and Community, he was town. In both, he stuck to his ground on his lynch candidates (me in Taco, Overswarm in Community) no matter what anyone said. I didn't realize how bad he's flip flopping.

So ultimately, I'm not liking X1, and thanks for the read.

FoS X1

@X1, you've been flip flopping quite a bit throughout the game. Who is your top scum pick, and why?
OK in Taco I got a horriffic misread when you were a noob, in community I got my claws in OS eventually but I also thought, at certian points in the game, that Roxy, Vreal and Swiss were all scum. In I just haven't found anyone who I am sure to be scum, had it been pointed out to me at the start of the Day that JB was not a newbie, I would have been pushing for his lynch for most of the day. I missed him not being a new player because there is so many unfamiliar faces in this game, and the account is new.

As you may have inferred, I don't have a top scum pick right now


X1, however, has been scummy since D1, and so far has no PR claim to fall back on.
You know scum can get safeclaims? sometimes PR ones too? the fact I don't have a PR claim is not a reason for my lynch


At this point I wouldn't believe him even if he did. He's flip-flopped. He's dodged criticism. He even defended Joan, who we now know is Mafia. I think X1 is the best candidate at this point.

My actual words were "I don't know if he's dumb or scum" this is NOT defending him.


CLAIM: Vanilla Townie


@SWISS: What do you think of me and how does it line up to me meta (which you know so well), you have been suspiciously quite about this. I know activity issues but if you post without answering this I'm voting you (and pushing, pushing for your lynch)
 

Swiss

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
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Don't get mad - get Swiss
X-1, man, bro.

What do you want me to say? Want a case as to why you're scum? All been said, half of it by me. Will be online to answer any questions asked for a bit, feel free to try to refute what has been said.

Happy for the hammer to fall anytime.
 

Kataefi

*smoke machine*
Joined
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Messages
3,377
Location
igloo


Vote Count:

[4] X1-12: Swiss / Cello_Marl / SummonerAU / Nicholas1024
[1] GorditoBoy69: X1-12
[1] J: Mayling
[1] Cello_Marl: J

[0] Swiss
[0] SummonerAU
[0] EdreesesPieces
[0] Xastrn
[0] Nicholas1024
[0] Mayling

[3] Not Voting: EdreesesPieces / GorditoBoy69 / Xastrn

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
 

Cello_Marl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
0
I know it was called for, but neither Swiss nor Mayling should claim right now. I'll explain why in a bit.
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
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Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,022
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Southampton, UK
peole should definnitely lynch swiss tomorrow. i have only ever played 1 game without Swiss in it, and that one game has only just started. this guy knows when i'm town and knows when I'm scum. i suggest that J investigates me tonight to prove my alignment (doc protect J) and when I get town, we lynch Swiss
 

Swiss

Smash Lord
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Don't get mad - get Swiss
Other than trying to get cello killed, how was that useful? Who would then be the play toDay?

'some flaws' doesn't quite give the full impact of how bad that was.

You should vote yourself now, and let Xas hammer.
 

Cello_Marl

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
0
There are only four viable choices for scum's Night Kill toNight: EdreesesPieces, Summoner, J, and a claimed doctor. Anyone else gives us a clear for too dear of a price.

In my opinion, optimal scum play is to kill EdreesesPieces and roleblock J. EdreesesPieces can clear Nick of being the roleblocker (if we don't lynch him [roleblocker] toDay), which would narrow at least one scum down to Mayling, X-1, Swiss and Xastrn. Looping roleblock on the Cop is evident on it's face as to why it is useful, and I for one would want J in LyLo if I were scum.

Summoner and EdreesesPieces are clear, and will assuredly die over the course of the next three Nights, along with at least one other person. Scum will be forced to kill J instead once we kill the roleblocker since they can't looping roleblock him.

@Swiss and Meimu: If either of you are Doctors, I think you should protect J without fail toNight and toMorrow Night. Don't claim Doctor toDay, AND DON'T FALSECLAIM DOCTOR TOMORROW IF YOU AREN'T ONE. Don't do anything that even remotely looks like the crap Mayling had Mentos do in Werewolves: i.e. no maverick bull**** "I tried to get an advantage for town by protecting someone else". We're far enough ahead for that. While claiming would force scum's NightKill once more (killing you), and virtually ensure that J gets a successful investigation by lynching X1 and the other of you two, one of whom would have to be the roleblocker.

@GorditoBoy: Target J toNight and toMorrow Night. That will confirm whether or not we have a doctor.

@J: Investigate me or Xastrn toNight, preferably Xastrn. Same thing for toMorrow Night. You shouldn't live past that, but if you do, investigate Nick or GorditoBoy, unless I tell you to investigate Swiss (extremely unlikely). As a sidenote, you are the runner-up for the scummiest natural playstyle I have ever seen. No one can even approach SSBF's style, but you're the Snake to his Metaknight. Second sidenote: I constructed the plan I'm about to suggest in such a way that I get to blame you for everything if we lose. You had a chance to counterclaim Swiss, and if you had, the only way that scum could have won would have been eliminated.

By forcing scum into killing a certain group of people and having J investigate certain people, we can ensure that the scum NK doesn't kill a new clear. With four lynches, if we target:

1) X1
Night) Scum can't afford to let us get close to their roleblocker, so they have to kill EP if X1 isn't a roleblocker, or may kill J banking on a Doctor not being in the game. If they kill the other of Swiss/Meimu looking for a doctor (if one of them is in the scum team), then that effectively gives us another clear by not making us waste a lynch.
2) Meimu, unless she claims Doctor AND Swiss doesn't claim Doctor and wasn't Night Killed, in which case we lynch Swiss. If Meimu was Night Killed we lynch Swiss unless he claims Doctor, in which case we lynch Nick.
Night) A town Doctor claim if X1 is the roleblocker forces scum to kill that person, or else J can simply investigate us to victory. That situation means J will clear me or Xastrn. If X1 is scum (roleblocker or not) and no Doc has claimed, then scum may try to Night Kill J. If he is doc-protected, then we get either one investigation if X1 isn't the roleblocker, and two (which guarantees victory) if he is. If scum killed the Doctor on Night 2, they will kill J with impunity, and that will also set their Night Kills for the next two Nights as EP and Summoner, both of whom are clear.
3) Meimu/Swiss if EITHER a) they both claimed Doctor, or b) if neither X1 or the other of Meimu/Swiss isn't a roleblocker, or Nick, if EP didn't clear him of being a roleblocker by confirming his claim of Forensic Investigator and if neither Meimu nor X1 are roleblockers. If this is the case, we lynch Xastrn, who absolutely would have to be the roleblocker (if this happens, then it means that the Doctor was killed on Night 2 and J is dead. We know that I couldn't be the roleblocker, since it doesn't make sense that I would roleblock MYSELF on the offchance that a role that was hitherto unknown would pick it up and then reveal that information I was the Watcher at the time. Xastrn would be the only vanilla left, and thus has to be the RB).
Night) At this point, X1, Meimu, EdreesesPieces, and at least one, probably two, of J, Swiss and Nick should be dead. If J is alive, it means that one of Swiss/Meimu was a Doctor, and J will die. If Swiss is alive, is the Doctor, and saved J, then we've won. In any case, Summoner would die at this point since he is clear and almost every scenario in which he is dead by this point would lead to us gaining a J-investigation victory.
4) Nick if we had to lynch X1, then Mayling, then Swiss, which would mean that both Swiss and Meimu claimed Doctor and we'd hit one scum, unless Swiss/Meimu weren't roleblockers, in which case we'd lynch GorditoBoy. Otherwise, we lynch GorditoBoy. There is no need to go no-lynch; scum would just go no-NK.

The only way scum would win is if Swiss is scum and claims Doctor and Mayling isn't one, or if Xastrn is scum and J doesn't successfully investigate him by choosing to investigate me instead AND there is no Doctor, or if it's a Swiss/Xastrn or a Swiss/Cello team. I doubt those situations enough that I'm willing to commit to this course of action (especially the last one). If scum deviates from my predicted kill patterns, then it just gives us a faster victory or ensures it.

Possible scumteams and summary:

Swiss/X1-12 Loses on Day 4 if May is a Doctor
Swiss/Xastrn Scum Wins
Swiss/Gordito Loses on Day 5 if May is a Doctor, due to J-investigate
Swiss/Nick Loses on Day 5 if May is a Doctor, due to J-investigate
Swiss/Mayling Scum Wins
Swiss/Cello Scum wins
X1-12/Xastrn Loses on Day 4 if J chooses to investigate Xastrn
X1-12/Gordito Loses on Day 5
X1-12/Nick Loses on Day 4
X1-12/Mayling Loses on Day 3 or 4
X1-12/Cello Loses on Day 4
Xastrn/Gordito Scum wins unless Meimu/Swiss is a doctor and J investigates Cello
Xastrn/Nick Scum wins unless Meimu/Swiss is a doctor and J investigates Cello
Xastrn/Mayling Scum wins unless Meimu/Swiss is a doctor and J investigates Cello
Xastrn/Cello Scum Wins unless Meimu/Swiss is a doctor
Gordito/Nick Loses on Day 5
Gordito/Mayling Loses on Day 5
Gordito/Cello Loses on Day 5
Nick/Mayling Loses on Day 4
Nick/Cello Technically loses on Day 5, but known by Day 4
Mayling/Cello Loses on Day 4

(Thank you, Professor McLogic Saves the Day.)

In my opinion, it's going to be X1 and Mayling. Technically, it could also still be a J/X1 scumteam, but then they would have hilariously painted themselves into a corner.
 

Cello_Marl

Smash Rookie
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EP isn't scum, and there isn't a godfather.

Town gains no benefit from Godfather, and forces a 9v3 situation, which already favors mafia, into an even better situation for them. It's already ******** that scum have a roleblocker and can stop any role powers that Townies get from them; anything more and Kat should have his mod-license revoked.
 

Dastrn

BRoomer
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EP can't be scum. He has all the information that he would only have if he was telling the truth. EP = confirmed townie.

Godfather doesn't hardly slow us down. It just means 1 mislynch and we win D4 or at worst D5.

Cello, for clarification, when you say "loses" in your scumteam analysis section, do you mean "town wins." ??
 
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