[M-1/2/10/17/22] Oddworld Mafia -- END! Town won!

[#HBC | J]

Fine...I'll claim but it puts me at a very heavy danger and I wish there was another way to convince people I am not scum but it has come down to this so early fine.

I'm the Town Sane Cop....

Really though making me claim over inactiveness is plain not right. So I guess now that you guys now know I can adresse the points brought up by Edresse.

I want the roleclaim FAST. I don't want it 2 days from now.

@J claim. Explain how you've strategized based on your role. Fast.

Again I was going to try and be absolutely normal.

However it seems that was a bad ploy to go with being a bit inactive. Oh well what is done is done. All I can do is prove what I say when I am going to be active. I strategized to just watch and see at first and let my investigations help me. I also thought of going along with my ava.

Oh, and @J, we know what we know due to what you've said. So to you, Cello might be wrong (or he might be right, and you're bull****ing us, but to the point...), but to us, he's right. You did, indeed, leave out information, which can be precieved as lying.

*tsk* Protecting Cello again? I proved he was wrong and his theory was just that, a theory. A flawed one too. Yes, it can be percieved as lying but do you have proof to this?

Wait wait, you had all the time to make that post defending yourself but you don't have time to make a case on Cello? I think this is what Gordito is getting at that you seem to lie about what you have time to do and not - you had time to sign up for another mafia game, yet you don't have time to post much here. You have time to post to defend yourself, but you don't have time to make a scum case on another player. You either have your priorities messed up or you are scum covering yourself. I felt a town read on you yesterDay but I'm not liking your defenses here, giving me the indication you are more likely to be scum than I thought. I'd like to hear your "reasons" for defending yourself yet holding your case on Summoner back. I too suspected Summoner but I just didn't have a good case, it was a hunch, but I admitted that, didn't make a BS excuse about not having time.

If you can gather by now my case against Summoner can be back up alot now. Yes, I investigated Summoner however my role is really annoying. I can investigate whoever I want but I may or may not receive my result. I sent in for him to be investigated and got a pm with a short story saying I had found a report on the ground, I picked it up but much to my luck it held info saying that something HAD been found on him but it had to be sent in for analysis. In the end I got nothing but it means something is around Summoner that is cause for my suspicion. It could be a role or a scum-tell but it is something.

Your reasons for signing up for the other game are decent, but I don't think you should be surprised that Gordito is getting at you for that considering your lack of activity in this game. Do you honestly think it's okay for someone to not post much and hten sign up for another game? Would you pursue, say, me , if i barely posted, then signed up for other mafia games? You'd pursue it if you were town.

No, I do not think it's okay. I was even debating wether I should or not. The second question is rhetorical and sort of a trap.

Anyways I guess I'll take requests to who people think I should investigate by the next night however I doubt I will be able to show the results.

 

[#HBC | J]

EBWOP:
btw i'm not really mad I just thought it was fitting for the post since that's how that charrie is when she is found out. ;3c

 

[#HBC | J]

However it seems that was a bad ploy to go with being a bit inactive. Oh well what is done is done. All I can do is prove what I say when I am going to be active. I strategized to just watch and see at first and let my investigations help me. I also thought of going along with my ava.

EBWOP: I saw something I worded wrong here, My strategization of watching did not play into my Inactiveness. That was legit and nothing could've been done to undo that.

 

[Cello_Marl]

J just blew my mind with post #441.

You expect us to believe that you are a Sane Cop, and yet, you didn't get a result for your investigation? You realize that the "Sane" in sane Cop means that they ALWAYS get the correct investigation, don't you? I'm sorry, but that type of modding is called ******* modding, and I know Kataefi better than to believe that he would have created such a role.

Besides, if you truly were a town cop, then you would have claimed Cop to refute Swiss's Cop claim. We KNOW that you had visited the thread during that time, remember.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

EBWOP: I meant to say make a case on summoner, not a case on Cello, since he claimed he was suspicious of Summoner.

Well, he DID vote Cello. And didn't really back it up, aside from his playing "being weird".

*tsk* Protecting Cello again? I proved he was wrong and his theory was just that, a theory. A flawed one too. Yes, it can be percieved as lying but do you have proof to this?

Protecting Cello? I'm protecting town. And there's no proof that you have or done any of this. It's about taking one's word. We DID believe you, until you were disproven, and now the only way that I feel you can be trusted is with time.

From the beginning of his claim, when he said he was cop, I thought to myself "bullcrap". Till he said this:

If you can gather by now my case against Summoner can be back up alot now. Yes, I investigated Summoner however my role is really annoying. I can investigate whoever I want but I may or may not receive my result. I sent in for him to be investigated and got a pm with a short story saying I had found a report on the ground, I picked it up but much to my luck it held info saying that something HAD been found on him but it had to be sent in for analysis. In the end I got nothing but it means something is around Summoner that is cause for my suspicion. It could be a role or a scum-tell but it is something.

The bolded part kinda made me think about his claim much more. I'm on the fence with his claim right now. It doesn't seem like something that can easily be bulls***ted, especially the bolded parts. But unfortunately, if J's telling the truth, he's gonna get NK'd. Unvote

@J, just because you didn't recieve the result, doesn't necessarily dictate Summoner's scumminess. It's just the fact that you didn't recieve the result. But why was he on your scum list D1, when you had no opprotunity to investigate?

 

[Nicholas1024]

J just blew my mind with post #441.

You expect us to believe that you are a Sane Cop, and yet, you didn't get a result for your investigation? You realize that the "Sane" in sane Cop means that they ALWAYS get the correct investigation, don't you? I'm sorry, but that type of modding is called ******* modding, and I know Kataefi better than to believe that he would have created such a role.

Besides, if you truly were a town cop, then you would have claimed Cop to refute Swiss's Cop claim. We KNOW that you had visited the thread during that time, remember.

Actually... I think I believe J's claim. His "result being sent in for analysis" thing matches up completely with a PM I got.


@Xastrn
If you want me to defend against something, give me a case to defend against. All you've actually given is lurking, and J's been FAR worse on that count than I have. (And you've said you DON'T think J's a good lynch.) And as for pro-towniness, I would like you to recall that I was on the JoanBud scum lynch.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Besides, if you truly were a town cop, then you would have claimed Cop to refute Swiss's Cop claim. We KNOW that you had visited the thread during that time, remember.

That's actually a good point, and I can't believe I missed it.

I already have a preconcieved thought as to the answer, but @J, why WOULDN'T you counterclaim?

 

[#HBC | J]

J just blew my mind with post #441.

You expect us to believe that you are a Sane Cop, and yet, you didn't get a result for your investigation? You realize that the "Sane" in sane Cop means that they ALWAYS get the correct investigation, don't you? I'm sorry, but that type of modding is called ******* modding, and I know Kataefi better than to believe that he would have created such a role.

Besides, if you truly were a town cop, then you would have claimed Cop to refute Swiss's Cop claim. We KNOW that you had visited the thread during that time, remember.

Shocking ain't it? Also I didn't make the role alright, I am just playing it and I found that really weird but a cool trait about it. I am the Sane cop but it said I may or may not recieve my result. Eh, believe me or not it's your call cause basically my hand is out and in the open. If you really think I am not the cop, kill me. Go ahead. If you have that much believe the claim is just BS then do it. ^_^

Oh and to Swiss' claim, I knew it was full of BS. However think of it as this. If I did claim against Swiss N0 cop claim then who would have died N1? I would not have been able to help the town at all plus if Swiss did keep the ruse going to the next day I planned to stop it. This is kindof a WIFOM but yea that was my train of thought. It would have been bad claiming so early in the game.

*tsk* Protecting Cello again? I proved he was wrong and his theory was just that, a theory. A flawed one too. Yes, it can be percieved as lying but do you have proof to this?

Protecting Cello? I'm protecting town. And there's no proof that you have or done any of this. It's about taking one's word. We DID believe you, until you were disproven, and now the only way that I feel you can be trusted is with time.

From the beginning of his claim, when he said he was cop, I thought to myself "bullcrap". Till he said this:



The bolded part kinda made me think about his claim much more. I'm on the fence with his claim right now. It doesn't seem like something that can easily be bulls***ted, especially the bolded parts. But unfortunately, if J's telling the truth, he's gonna get NK'd. Unvote

@J, just because you didn't recieve the result, doesn't necessarily dictate Summoner's scumminess. It's just the fact that you didn't recieve the result. But why was he on your scum list D1, when you had no opprotunity to investigate?

So time will tell if I can be trusted to what I say. Alright that sounds really fair. Gordito is right I will die and get NK'd because of my claim unless I am saved from the Doc (if there is one). I am now a huge target. Anyways disagree with my claim kill me. Plain and simple really.

Well my suspicions on Summoner were due to his somewhat quietness and a bit of bandwagoning. However now a shroud has been thrown over my eyes and I have no clue what to think of him. I know not receiveing a result doesn't dictate scumminess but it does show something's hidden with Summoner. I assume a PR or he is scum. That is why I want to look into him more. Overall because of my investigation im lost. =/

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually... I think I believe J's claim. His "result being sent in for analysis" thing matches up completely with a PM I got.

Whoa wait did you get a pm regarding my result or something?! If so we should know what the results are to help us. I know it may be dangerous but it could help us =/

 

[Nicholas1024]

Whoa wait did you get a pm regarding my result or something?! If so we should know what the results are to help us. I know it may be dangerous but it could help us =/

I did not receive any result, I sent one off.

 

[#HBC | J]

drat =/ I was thinking maybe there was a role where someone would get the stuff in which I sent out.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wait, if nobody else claims town cop, isn't it reasonable to believe what J is saying? I don't think J would claim cop, because if the real cop counter claims, we know one of them is scum. Kind of the scenario we thought we had with Xastrn and Swiss.

Ill tell you that I think J is telling the truth, it seems legit to me. I've talked to some other game mods before and they thought about having roles where the result of the result was not 100% chance of receiving it or it got sent to someone else.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'd rather not speculate on roles. If there is a said role, and he/she wants to reveal said result(s?), that's their decision. Until then, let's get back to scumhunting.

 

[Kataefi]

Vote Count:

[3] J: Nicholas1024 / Mayling / Cello_Marl
[1] Cello_Marl: J
[1] GorditoBoy69: Xastrn

[0] Swiss
[0] SummonerAU
[0] X1-12
[0] EdreesesPieces
[0] Xastrn
[0] Nicholas1024
[0] Mayling

[5] Not Voting: Swiss / SummonerAU / X1-12 / EdreesesPieces / GorditoBoy69

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Deadline set for Tuesday, October 5th, Noon GMT.

 

[Mayling]

If you can gather by now my case against Summoner can be back up alot now. Yes, I investigated Summoner however my role is really annoying. I can investigate whoever I want but I may or may not receive my result. I sent in for him to be investigated and got a pm with a short story saying I had found a report on the ground, I picked it up but much to my luck it held info saying that something HAD been found on him but it had to be sent in for analysis. In the end I got nothing but it means something is around Summoner that is cause for my suspicion. It could be a role or a scum-tell but it is something.

if it was sent in for analysis do you think you'll get it toMorrow?

 

[#HBC | J]

i have no clue how it will work. It just said sent in for analysis. *sigh* I wish I could know because it bugs me.

 

[Mayling]

i have no clue how it will work. It just said sent in for analysis. *sigh* I wish I could know because it bugs me.

does your role pm specifically say sane cop?

 

[#HBC | J]

yes it does 100% I am the Town Sane Cop

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Does that mean that there might be another cop? If so, is it safe to assume that that other cop is INsane?

 

[Mayling]

Does that mean that there might be another cop? If so, is it safe to assume that that other cop is INsane?

wouldn't it ruin the point of having two cops if one was clearly labelled out to be sane?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't understand why he'd be labelled sane at all if he was the only cop. How anti town would that be of the mod to make one cop, and make him insane, or another variant?

 

[Cello_Marl]

It isn't safe to assume that no counterclaim means J is telling the truth. People are assuming that if J is telling the truth about her role as a cop, then she is town. That's not necessarily true; Macman was a mafia cop in Nothing Special Mafia, a game which included a town Absorber, someone who could copy abilities. This game has that as a basic element due to the mechanics of the lynch. Also, keep in mind that Watcher is traditionally a town role like cop, and yet Joan was a Mafia Watcher.

@Nick: Why did you OPENLY ADMIT THAT YOU ARE A NON-PASSIVE PR? Since you've decided to reveal this information, the only role that makes sense is tracker.

@J: Who and why were you private messaging at about 7:30 p.m. EST?

@Xastrn: I don't trust any of you people to make the right decisions anymore. I need J's role to ensure that I will survive to toMorrow to keep everyone on the right track. That will also allow me to keep my watch target a secret, and potentially catch someone in a lie.

@Gordito: Cops aren't told their sanity on SWF unless it's an open (all roles known ahead of time) game, and that is done to let the player know without a doubt that he isn't being lied to by the mod. A naive cop in what would otherwise be a normal C9 game, for example, would literally win the game for the mafia if the cop were to target either of them. J is lying about his results.

unvote

I won't dispute J's roleclaim. In fact, it's exceedingly likely that he IS a Sane Cop of some sort, possibly flavor or perhaps just a normal cop. But, the special mechanic of the game is that we ABSORB POWERS. 9 v 3 is already in scum's favor; it would be really ****ed unbalanced if mafia were able to gain universally useful powers like Tracker (which Nick's foolishness has shown us is present in the game), if we were to be stuck with gaining roles like Godfather. Also keep in mind that the mafia CANNOT have a roleblocker, and the Town MUST have a doctor, or else the special mechanics of the game wouldn't even matter.

I'm hammering toDay, and we're GOING to lynch J.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@J: If you were to have gotten a guilty result, would you have come forward with your results even if you weren't the likely lynch? Why or why not?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Cello

You're a VT, aren't you?

And I guess it's not necessarily safe to assume that claiming cop = town. After all, he can have a mafia PR and have the same role restriction.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Gordito: Duh. And you're the Doctor. Have fun dying toNight.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Cello
Tracker isn't the only possibility. All I've said is that it's a role that gathers info. It could be a watcher, a reporter, a forensic investigator, and that's just off the top of my head. Besides, it isn't the most useful PR ever, so it's not like I'm outing the uber-win-broken role. The reason I mentioned it is because cop is a pretty good PR as well, and the way J's "analysis" thing matches up with mine makes me somewhat hesitant about the lynch.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Nick: Joan/I was the watcher, remember? If you were a forensic investigator, why would you have used your power last Night? No one was dead except for a lynched scum and an NPC. If you can't think of anything else, that means you are a tracker. It's the only other investigative role that's left.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Cello I don't understand. Why does you absorbing J's role ensure your survival for tomorrow?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'm not the doc... What made you think that? And if I was, what would make you want to expose that?

And Tracker is so NOT the only passive role. I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@J: I've been waiting almost an hour for the answers my questions in #461 and #462. The fact that you've swung by here 4 times during that time isn't doing you any favors. What happened to contributing?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Cello
I am not a tracker. You underestimate Kat's imagination. And that is all I will say about my role.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@EP: If I get the Cop role, then I can be sure that Gordito won't screw around and will protect me like he should be. And he had better.

@Gordito: Your death gets my town back in order. I'll prevent your lynch during the Day, and you're too juicy of a target for them to pass up.

First of all, we can assume that Nick is an investigative role because he admitted it. There are four basic types of investigative roles: Alignment, Trackers, Watchers, and Flavor. Most normal flavor investigators aren't appropriate (I'm pretty sure none of us have guns), and custom flavor wouldn't be useful. Finding a birdarang if most of town is composed of Batman villains is useful; finding a slog's tooth in this game tells us absolutely nothing. The current metagame of providing safeclaims for scum often renders this useless anyway.

If he were an alignment investigator (i.e. cop), he'd have countered J. It's unlikely that there are two Watchers in a single game. Therefore, it is likely enough that he is a tracker or tracker-like that we can assume he is one.

It's pretty unlikely that scum would have all three investigative roles. When we lynch J and reveal him to be scum, we SHOULD be able to clear Nick from that (not that anyone actually will).

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Cello
Why are you so intent on pinning my exact role? Do you want me to just flat-out claim at this point?

 

[Cello_Marl]

The only thing I really, really care about right now is making sure that J gets lynched.

 

[Xastrn]

@Cello: I've got two theories as to what your night action was.

Either A) You targeted smarg and saw that J targeted him. If he was the only targeter, then you might as well come out and say it so we can lynch him. If there were multiple targets, then you need J's role to know who the other person's role is.

or B) You targeted yourself, and saw that Gord and/or J targeted you. If both, then we've likely got a vig or sk on our hands, because smarg still died in the night. If only J, then I don't see why you'd keep insisting on lynching. If Gord, then I could see why you think he's doc, but I don't see why it would affect your insistence on lynching J.

So which is it? You're not helping town by keeping it secret. If Gord is deceiving you about doc, then you might not live long enough to reveal everything in D3.

As for our own suspicions, they rest firmly on Gord, Nick, and X-1 at this point. Gord for reasons already stated. Nick because of your previous suspicions, along with his most townie actions being talking about Cello Meta and his voting habits. And X-1 because he sidesteps most attacks made against him rather than offering a substantial defense. In addition, he previously linked himself to Gordito (with hammering proposals D1 AND D2) and when that failed they started a very petty (readhony) bickering match.

@Gord: The reason Cello thinks you are doc is because you are the only player to mention the doc repeatedly this entire game. Usually this is either a doc tell or a scum tell. Cello is choosing to read it as Doc. We read it as scum.

You said you wanted quoted evidence rather than generalizations, so let's take a look at your first post of the D2.

Hmm... Funny... Cello didn't die . Either we have a good doc, or...

This is, I believe, your third of fourth mention of the doc this game. Like I said before, mentioning the Doc 3rd person is a good way to advertise that you are the doc. I'm sure you'll use on OMGIS excuse for this. I think that's why I think you're scum. This quotation is extremely hammy, like you're trying to "accidentally" give it away. Now that Cello's picked up on it you're playing dumb. Seems like a nice way of keeping suspicion off yourself.

@Xastrn

J had his vote on smargaret for about half of the day, and then switched his scum picks to Joan, me, and Summoner, iirc. Not saying that that was a way to bus a scum buddy, but still. Just something to think about.

My real question to everyone is: why would it be smargaret? Why the newbie (of [I believe] many newbies) of the bunch? CAN it be that J didn't like em and just NK'd him? Idk. His other scum buddy (assuming that it was a 3 man scum team to begin with) probably wouldn't want to put him out there like that. Or, J's an idiot, his scum buddy realizes this, let J NK, and now, his scum buddy's gonna **** the crap out of that case. tl;dr: I don't know what to make of that NK.

You go out of your way to disagree with what we said about J's smarg vote, and then proceeded to make your case against J based on exactly what we said. What does this say to me? That you are more interested in getting J lynched than scumhunting. If you weren't, then you would have provided a non-contradictory argument.

And FYI: J signed up for ANOTHER game. So my vote goes to

Vote: Cello

Nah I'm just playin.

Unvote

Again, as I stated in the first post I ever made against you, this sucking up to Cello is too hammy and unbelievable. You want too hard to be liked by the most obvious town in the bunch. Moves like this say "phony" to me. And when I hear "phony," I also here "scum."

Vote: J

Be more active, or just request replacement please. It's really hard dealing with you when you're in 1 other game. Now we have to deal with you being in ANOTHER? Idk if this guy's REALLY lurking or if he legit has no computer. But he's deadweight. And if we have to trim the fat, then we will.

Again, it should matter if J sucks or is inactive. Yes, this is not pro-town play, but you should never rush a lynch on someone being not pro-town when there's still time to find people who are anti-town. We (Dastrn and I) made this same cry yesterday and we lynched a mafia watcher. "Trimming the fat" is not pro-town at all. It's pro-scum.

tl;dr: You want desperately for people to think you are town-doc, and you are chewing the scenery to do it. This is not natural town-doc play. This is scum play.

@Cello: Do you think it's possible that Gord isn't doc, like you seem to think?

 

[Xastrn]

Also, we're with EP about J, unless Cello gives us a revelation.

J panicked in a very nonscummy way when he was about to lynched. While reading his responses, I turned to Dastrn and said, "I bet J is actually a power role." A few hours later J was claiming Cop.

@Nick: Do you think Gord deceiving us with Doc-tells? Why or why not?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Qu

@EP: If I get the Cop role, then I can be sure that Gordito won't screw around and will protect me like he should be. And he had better.

Wait a minute. If you believe J is cop, and you still think he's scum, you think that you can absorb a mafia cop role. This makes no sense to me. Why would mafia need cop? You think the role would exist just so town could potentially absorb it and use it?

@Gordito: Your death gets my town back in order. I'll prevent your lynch during the Day, and you're too juicy of a target for them to pass up.

I think you are trying to take too much power and too much role into your own hands. How about we tell doc to protect someone who isn't trying to rush a lynch on someone when over a week is left til the deadline, on someone who has a decent chance of being town at this point? Look, it's possible that nobody counter claiming cop still means that J is lying. It's also possible that scum has a cop role. But on TOP of what Nicholas is saying about his role matching up with what J is saying, I think all the evidence and circumstances point to J likely telling the truth, and you want to still rush the lynch? I don't like this at all.

The only thing I really, really care about right now is making sure that J gets lynched.

So, if you are so sure J is scum, are you willing to allow us to lynch you the next day if you are wrong? If you are this sure, I will put my vote on J, otherwise I believe J and don't think he should be lynched.

It's one thing using the next 10 days to try to find scum, then lynching J because we haven't found anything to go on. But if you are so sure that you want to lynch someone who claims town cop NOW, you should face the reprecussions of being lynched yourself if you are wrong and J is a cop. Since you are so "sure". So far nobody has pointed me one single diadvantage to spending the next 10 days scum hunting, then deciding to lynch J if nobody better is found. Name a disadvantage to that vs lynching J, a potential cop, now?

 

[Cello_Marl]

So, if you are so sure J is scum, are you willing to allow us to lynch you the next day if you are wrong? If you are this sure, I will put my vote on J, otherwise I believe J and don't think he should be lynched.

Yes.

If we don't lynch J now, someone will **** up and we'll end up lynching a townie now. It's the same thing that would have happened if he hadn't lynched "early".

Here's one disadvantage; if you don't fall in line, then I'll dig up something that makes you look like scum and convince everyone that it's the honest-to-goodness truth. If you make us wait, then it's bound to happen to someone; no one will want to lynch J because they want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and a Night) for that spew about his investigation, and if that's the case, we might as well get rid of someone that's not going to be helpful to my Town.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Xastrn I think Nich is town. don't think he'd protect J by revealing info on his role and put himself out on the line like that if he he was scum - that means he would have effectively made up a lie to protect J. If J was lynched and flipped scum it would totally point to Nich. then 3 scum would be gone, and I don't think Nich would take this kind of risk.

But I have suspicions on X1, especially his quietness today. I think that either Gordito or X1 is scum, but I don't think they both are, largely in part for Dastrn's reasons, but not both largely because of this exchange 402-404. Not sure which yet though.

@X1 can you chime in? What do you think of J's claim?
@Swiss and Mayling: Do you guys think Cello's way too much in his rush for J's lynch or do you think its justified considering the behavior and claim of J?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

this exchange 402-404 i meant post #'s 402 -404