[M-1/15/19/24/27/32/33/34] FF7: Mafia Remix | Game over, Mafia Wins!

[mentosman8]

Gotta hand it to you Sue, that was the best use of being voteblocked possible. Especially since there's been no evidence of voteblocking yet. Can't clear you over it, but I like the move. Hopefully Rockin's flip will happen early enough I can get my re-read going tonight and tomorrow after work so I'll have time to get it done before night ends.

 

[Chaco]

^or you can replace out because you dont have time to play the game and stop being a douche bag

I said I planned on if it continued to progress into less time.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Tom mah boi, whar be the flip dear boyo?

 

[SummonerAU]

I don't see why hammering at this point in the game would make anyone look better. I wouldn't look at a person better if they hammered scum D3.

Anyway, I didn't and I'm not.

 

[Tom]

Vote Count:
[6] Rockin: Nix2100, mentosman8, frozenflame, Omni, Junglefever, SummonerAU
[1] Sue: Rockin
[0] Chaco
[0] mentosman8
[0] Omni
[0] Nix2100
[0] Omis
[0] Junglefever
[0] frozenflame751
[0] SummonerAU

[3] Not Voting: Chaco, Sue, Omis

Something happened... with her father's death, Marlene was at loss for words. She was to blame? She loved her father...

Rockin, Marlene Wallace (vanilla townie) has been lynched!

Day 3 ends.
Night 3 begins.

Night actions are due in 48 hours.

 

[Tom]

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Omni, Cait Sith (town psychic) was killed.

Day 4 begins.

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Tuesday, October 12, Noon EST.

 

[mentosman8]

GRRRRR! This just further confuses how Rockin flipped town. At least if there were 2 kills I could see an SK being the answer, but now I'm just absolutely lost. On the bright side I guess, only 1 death last night means if we've got a 3 man scumteam we're only in mylo instead of lylo :/

 

[Sue]

Alright guys Sue is a little stumped...

Sue's thoughts on the current situation:

Eight members left... probably a 3v1v4
I doubt there is a vig now... no one claimed to be a vig and I can't see the benefit of not claiming to be the vig if he's town. It's probably an SK

If there is a vig, then its 3v5 and the vig is a moron.

Sue: Has an Idea

Maybe we shoul hold off on voting immediately and just deliberate until we can all choose and execute a lynch together.

If town is voteblocked and that person says they are vote blocked then scum knows they have an awesome shot at forcing a no lynch today. Anyone voting only narrows down who is voteblocked... Sue thinks that it's best that no one vote or say that they are voteblocked...

Collectively decide on a lynch...
and then do that lynch then and there with votes.

 

[mentosman8]

Sue, I agree with the not voting, I would assume since I pointed out that today would be mylo with 1 town death/lylo with 2 the voteblocker(assuming town as per usual) wasn't stupid enough to block someone, but ya never know.

Leading to my next point, how does everyone feel about claiming now? It's late enough in the game it could be beneficial, and I'm interested to hear thoughts on it, including how people feel we should go about it if we do(and yes, there IS a right answer to that).

Finally, I did some research on what exactly Omni's role could have done. I've found 2 examples from the mafiascum wiki search, one of which was being the first to find out who was targeted for death via PM(absolutely worthless power), the other was able to find everyone who had night-targeted the lynched player of the day.

Sources for those roles:
http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=4146 night action revelation
http://mafialives.darkbb.com/mafia-...-jason-returns-game-over-town-wins-t75-50.htm early death notification

Both of these roles have very few practical applications, and I'm not sure I think it's either of them. The second is literally a waste if the nk is sent in late, the first I don't think Omni's later actions. Regardless, it's something that may lead to some info for us if we can figure it out, if anyone has any other ideas throw 'em out there

 

[SummonerAU]

I am against mass claiming at this point in time. Would like to hear how you would make people claim and what you would do once everyone had claimed.

Mentos, why didn't you put forward a candidate for lynch in your last post? I knew I should have followed through on that post of yours about why we should lynch Rockin. Frankly, I don't really care what Omni's role did. You pretty much avoided any mention of who should be the play today. I don't know how you can still be absolutely lost D4.

Chaco, you should have replaced out D2. If you replace out now, it'll just cause a distraction and give your slot a "will post later, rereading" card to play for basically the whole day. Wait hold on, that's what you did yesterday :OOOOOOOOOO If you have time to get mad at this post, you're not doing enough rereading and posting.

I'm okay with Mentos or Chaco. I would much prefer Mentos though. I would also like the next post nominating someone for lynch is Mentos' post.

Nominate: Mentos and Chaco

 

[SummonerAU]

Mentos, what's going on buddy? It's the second time I've seen you online and on dgames and now you're private messaging?


@Tom: Can you fakeprod everyone to let them know the day has started?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

No need to prod me I know the day has started.

Rockin not flipping scum has set me back about an eon as far as scumhunting goes.

Will need some time to do some re-reading and figure some **** out. Don't expect anything substantial from me for at least 24 hours. Apologies.

 

[Nix2100]

Nix is posting to say he is in the hospital, should be out tomorrow.....hopefully

 

[Chaco]

Summoner calm yourself down, and just shut up until I get the chance to talk. We good? Good.

If you guys wouldnt have ended the day early yesterDay I got off early and came home to an already decided vote. There goes all incentive to post. Patience is a virtue, and a much needed one if you dont let people talk who probably can get better reads than you. Im not saying you get bad reads, but nothing has impressed me from you at all. Quite honestly. Anyways, enough *****ing aside Ill be posting later.

As for now, Im clocking back in.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Want to do a reread on Summoner, he has seemed to slip my mind for the most part, and don't really recall what he's been up to. So I'm goign to get on that.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

EBWOP: Also don't like the first thing Mento's goes to is game mechanics instead of at least thinking about the flip from last night.

 

[Omni]

go town go!<object width="0" height="0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tWYD99VSfuM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1?rel=0&autoplay=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tWYD99VSfuM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1?rel=0&autoplay=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="0" height="0"></embed></object>

 

[mentosman8]

Mentos, what's going on buddy? It's the second time I've seen you online and on dgames and now you're private messaging?


@Tom: Can you fakeprod everyone to let them know the day has started?

Yeah, surprisingly enough I don't post every time I have SWF open, shocking I know. In fact, when I'm at home, it's open all the time even if I'm not browsing it! And yep, I was private messaging, me and BSL need a hydra name for Halo :D

EBWOP: Also don't like the first thing Mento's goes to is game mechanics instead of at least thinking about the flip from last night.

Um, Jungle, my first post of the day had parts of me researching the flip to try to figure out what the role was? Honestly, who is shocked Omni was town? I had that decided by like D2, so there really wasn't a whole lot exciting about the kill because, well, surprise surprise, Omni died and was town. Not sure why you're going after me when I spent my time doing something actually useful about the flip instead of an "oh no! Omni died and was town like I expected!"

Looking at the potential ways his role works tells us if there's anything we can look for on old days. When someone flips cop you look for hints of who they investigated. When they flip a role you don't know you try to figure it out so you can look for any possible info they've left behind.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

GRRRRR! This just further confuses how Rockin flipped town. At least if there were 2 kills I could see an SK being the answer, but now I'm just absolutely lost. On the bright side I guess, only 1 death last night means if we've got a 3 man scumteam we're only in mylo instead of lylo :/

How exactly does the number of kills last night give you any indication of how many scum are in the scum team?

EBWOP: Also don't like the first thing Mento's goes to is game mechanics instead of at least thinking about the flip from last night.

I like how the first thing you go to is commenting on a solo player instead of thinking about the flip from last night.

No but really how can you say this when you haven't offered us any of your own thoughts regarding both Rockin OR Omnis flip? All you did was say "lets look at summoner" and then criticized mentos for not do doing something that you didn't do either. So let's hear your thoughts shall we?

Sue's idea is pretty legit though not not entirely necessary. It just kinda formalizes prevention of stalling tactics, even though scum stalling in order to force NL would be pretty identifiable anyway even if we were voting naturally. Not a big deal though I'm fine with the plan for now at least.

@ Summoner: Why would you not agree with a mass claim in what is likely lylo/mylo? If we did mass claim I imagine we'd do a vote system where everyone picks their top three candidates for claiming, we tally the votes, and then go down the list in order of popularity claimed full name and role.

Asking what we would do after the claim ended is loaded as hell considering pretty much the whole point of a claim is to get an information injection and then use that info to hopefully deduce something useful and run with it. There's no way anyone can answer that question with any level of specificity now.

So now with you questions answered let me ask my own. Why exactly are you opposed to a mass claim?

In fact this should go to a formal vote. Everyone in their next post should clearly express if they support or do not support a mass claim and (preferably) why.

I also want to hear from everyone who ISN'T NIX what the hell they think happened to Riddler consideringit wasn't a mismason + save if Rockin was town and that's who Riddler said he was targetting.

Also @ Chaco, stop getting upset, and stop letting that stall you even more. Ignore provocative comments and seriously just get caught up, and post some susbtance. We're in likely mylo/lylo here and the time for ****ing around with pissant inactivity and catchup games is over. If your next post contains anything other than direct and clear answers to my and/or other's questions, or a good substantive stance or stances on someone, then I'm pushing for you and pushing hard. Man the **** up and get moving.

 

[mentosman8]

How exactly does the number of kills last night give you any indication of how many scum are in the scum team?

I never said it did? I guess I should clarify though, the kill and number of scum are not related, however, assuming a 3 man scum team as I do, 1 kill last night leaves it 5v3, whereas 2 like we had the prior night leaves 4v3, which means that we sneak by with mylo instead of lylo. I hadn't intended the 2 be taken as connected, just that with an assumption on mafia size(because really, two mafiats is just way too low for a 15 man game, and with 8 left it woulda been game with four), the situation is nicely different with 1 kill than 2.

Regardless, if it wasn't made clear by me mentioning it in my first post of the day, I think a mass claim is a much needed move. Rockin not flipping scum(which I'm still struggling to come through reasoning on>_>) has thrown a huge wrench in a lot of what I had built up. I have another reason, but I'll leave that one out for now so people can't all parrot itXD

 

[Chaco]

Just a note before Im reading, Frozen, you'd be willing to push for me no matter what you believe my alignment to be just because of hindered activity? Especially after stating that you believe we may be in Mylo or Lylo. Kinda screwy logic there, and everyone if you would aid in my catching up progress post a list of questions you'd like me to answer. If you choose not to due to ignorance, its your own **** fault.

 

[SummonerAU]

Claiming in mylo/lylo with a janned role is just asking for trouble imo. I see it as something that'll probably take a few days and Omis is hanging around on 2 prods. I think the closer this day goes to deadline, the worse it'll be for us. Mentos bringing it up makes me think scum want a claim and I don't particularly want to do something scum want to do.

Regarding Riddler's death, I mentioned that Chuckie could have been recruited and killed when Kevin died. Outside of that, there's some silly bus driver stuff, but there's nothing to base that on.

 

[Omis]

As Summoner said, claiming is asking for trouble due to a Jan being about.
Im need to reread a bit due to being absent this weekend.
Catching up.

 

[SummonerAU]

*highfives Omis for posting*

 

[mentosman8]

I still have not seen a remotely reasonable explanation for being against claiming. I really expect everyone against claiming to come up with a good reason not to, because really so far all I've heard is misplaced suspicions, and more importantly, saying no to a claim for literally the worst reason you could be against it. Janned role is a point in favor of claiming in this particular game, not against it. Come up with some good reasons or I'll just start this myself>_>

 

[Omis]

How is someone being Janned good in this game?

 

[mentosman8]

It's not good, but it's a point in favor of a claim, not against it. If you remember details of this game, you should be able to put together why a claim is a good idea. I'm not going to spell it out, because I'm quite sure FF gets it, I know I do, and I'd like to see evidence that someone else is actually invested in this game enough to figure it out.

 

[Sue]

I'll give a more thorough explination when I'm not drowning in even MORE work... but...


I want our voteblocker to live until lylo. I also don't want the sk/mafia to know who the power townies are.

I strongly dislike how you are trying to force a mass claim, mentos. The risks most definitely outweigh the potential gains from a mass claim right now... A scum team of 3 could easily cause chaos in an 8 person claim... not to mention they can take advantage of the new information.

Sue will come back with a more substantial post later.

For now, FOS: Mentos

 

[SummonerAU]

Mentos, If you actually give some suspects before the mass claim AND reasons behind them, I'll look into it some more, but until then I'll just think you're bull****ing or something.

 

[SummonerAU]

Probably going with Mentos/Jungle/Chaco as scum unless they do something to make me think otherwise.

 

[Chaco]

Summoner post a basis. Ive seen noting but blank accusations from you.

Mentos, claim really is a no right now. I think I know the reason you're alluding to however, and do not feel it is strong enough a reason to claim.

Questions anyone? No?

 

[mentosman8]

Here's a question Chaco(and everyone else really): If we don't claim today what is our course of action today? There are pretty much 4 options:

A. No lynch since it's mylo, try to work out as much as we can without claiming. Benefit over C of keeping PR's a secret for one more night.
B. Don't claim and lynch today. Risky to make a lynch without every bit of info in MYLO, but it's a possibility.
C. Claim and no lynch. We get all the info out there, let scum make their move, and lynch tomorrow. Benefit over A here is getting whichever townie ends up being killed's opinion on the claims instead of having one less view on it.
D. Claim and lynch. We get everything to light, and make our move.

Those are the four options we have today. I would like everyone's views on what we should do, and a good explanation of why they feel their choice is more beneficial than the others.

What I do know, is that we are in MYLO, the game is relatively stalled, and we really need an injection of information to get things jumping again. If we do something wrong today, we lose.

@Tom: Rule 6 states if deadline hits there will be a no lynch, but I do not see it specified what happens if majority is not reached. So, if a majority vote is not reached, does day end in a lynch of the highest vote or a no lynch?

Looking forward to the answer to that question, 'tis relatively important.

 

[SummonerAU]

Are you talking about all of them, or just you? Pretty sure I 've said things about you and Mentos but not much about Jungle. Jungle's mainly there because I like Frozen more than him and I trust Omni's judgement on Omis (for now).

I'll do you for now.

If you remember, I didn't like you when you did post often because you didn't take any stances and your defense to that was "it's because I'm inactive and people always thing I'm scummy when I'm inactive". From then on you went inactive and pretty much only posted "I'll post later guys" for all of D3 and so far today. If you post something really good, I'll consider otherwise. If you want me to look at other people, tell me who to look at instead of you.

I do have some questions for you, but I want to wait until after you post your catchup because they'll probably be answered there. Mainly, I want to know where your head's at.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

@FF: In order to get a full analysis (which is what you're asking from me), I need to go back and review Summoner. I didn't comment on anything yet because I feel that doing so without having a full read (or at least thoughts) on every player would only create more confusion (to myself) in my conclusions.

@mentos: it's not that 'oh my god omni flipped town' but did you not draw any connections to the flip or anything of that nature? I just think you're focusing a bit too much on the mechanics of the game, but to each their own, i guess.

Anyway, I'm okay with a mass claim at this point in the game. I think we should..wait on it though. I really want to hear what Mentos, Chaco and Omis have to say about what's happened IN the game rather than game mechanics.

 

[Chaco]

I'd say B honestly, but I feel as if we need something more. Id say we have 4 anti town entities left. Most likely a 3 man scum team, and the lone indie that is left like in the original. Id say the permanent mentee/menor replaced the siblings, and we still have a role like Sephiroth lurking around. THAT is however considering Chuckie was town and his janned role was not really indie.

So hmm. Let me think on this a bit. I oppose claim right now because I feel itd work against us more than with us still. This is Tom he gives good safeclaims, and easily built with fake roles.

 

[mentosman8]

Hm, I hadn't really been considering a lone indy left but really, the original FF7 was balanced with one and it was only one more player, so I'll add it to my considerations.

And Jungle, part of the reason I want a claim is because most of the remaining town is an unknown. Really there's just nothing that stands out about most of the remaining players. Had Rockin flipped scum I woulda had a better idea where to go, but him flipping town in a situation where every townie pretty much agreed the only answer was for him to flip scum, and the two other lynches being on indie's where it's very hard to find scum on, I feel this is the least information I've ever had in a game by D4. Maybe another re-read will help a bit, but really I just think we need something to get everyone posting and get some solid information on the less known entities remaining(standing out, Sue, Omis, Jungle, and Chaco I feel like I know nothing about in this game, Nix would be there too if he wasn't the claimed partner of Mac>_>). When half the remaining players have about the same or less posts than the D1 lynch, it's not a very favorable thing for town

 

[mentosman8]

EBWOP: Chibo: 45 posts
Nix: 47
Jungle: 40
Sue: 38(with Xiivi's numbers added in as well from before hydra replacement)
Omis: 32

Anyway, sleep time for work in 4 hours, won't be back till tomorrow afternoon.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Just a note before Im reading, Frozen, you'd be willing to push for me no matter what you believe my alignment to be just because of hindered activity? Especially after stating that you believe we may be in Mylo or Lylo. Kinda screwy logic there, and everyone if you would aid in my catching up progress post a list of questions you'd like me to answer. If you choose not to due to ignorance, its your own **** fault.

Stop being dumb.

If I say I'm going to push for you if you don't follow up your so far empty promises in a big way, I'm going to ****ing do it. Why? Because it makes me think you're scummy as hell.

Based on how you react to the pressure and whether or not you actually end up putting your **** together, I may end up being convinced you are town and thus, stop pushing for you. Pushing for =/= endlessly attacking and making my primary and only target until you die.

If you choose not to follow up with what you promised to do and start answering people's questions, then you're going to get lynch and that's your own **** fault.

@Tom: Rule 6 states if deadline hits there will be a no lynch, but I do not see it specified what happens if majority is not reached. So, if a majority vote is not reached, does day end in a lynch of the highest vote or a no lynch?

Looking forward to the answer to that question, 'tis relatively important.

I'm a little confused about what you're trying to find out with this question. What do you mean by "if a majority is not reached"? Obviously, if a majority is not reached, deadline will hit and the day will end like the rules state the day will end if deadline hits. Like where are you getting this distinction between "majority not being reached" and "deadline hitting"?

Seriously I don't see any functional difference between the two. Please explain.

Also @ mentos, most of #940 was good except that bit about having some other reason why Rockin not flipping scum confuses you but you won't say it because you are afraid people will parrot it. WTF? Dude, with so few people who are left in the game, it'll be obvious if people are simply parroting and not contributing. Why in the world would you withold information at this point in the game, ESPECIALLY when you're pushing for a mass claim so hard to maximize the information we have in MYLO? That's completely contradictory behavior to what you're preaching here. What is this little tidbit of information you're with holding?

And lastly DO NOT START CLAIMING unless we all agree to go ahead and do it.

Regarding the mass claim, I think there compelling arguments for and against the claim. Fear mongering because of the Janitor though is a TERRIBLE reason to be arguing against a claim.

All a jan does is give someone a free safe claim, and a "random" one at that. Most mafia have safeclaims anyway so I don't see why people are so terrified of the janitor.

Furthermore, like mentos said, the jan'd role WAS in the game, and if it's a power role who's night actions can be asked to be reported and such, that makes it difficult for the mafia to claim it.

And then there's the chance that the scum jan'd an indy of just a straight up vanilla townie which pretty much renders the ability useless as far as claiming goes.

So yeah, I'm not buying any "OMG THERES A JAN WHY WOULD YOU CLAIM YUR SO DUMB" arguments that are about as shortsighted as ****ing bat.

I want to hear better arguments from people who oppose the mass claim than that. That seriously isn't convincing me nor should it convince anyone.

@ Sue or anyone who knows: How convinced are we that the vote blocker is town aligned and why?

Also still waiting on people to explain their take on how Riddler died and Nix survived.

Speaking of which @ Summoner your explanation seriously was incoherent babble? What exactly is the connection between Kevin potentially recruiting Chuckie, and then Riddle dying without Nix dying? Like c'mon man wtf are you even trying to say. And how exactly would a busdriver cause what happened to happen? Don't ****ing give me these stupid cop out answers. EXPLAIN YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS. HOW AND WHY DO YOU THINK RIDDLE DIED AND NIX SURVIVED. MAKE IT CLEAR. EVERYBODY.

And Nix dude wtf are you doing you're supposed to be ****ing confirmed town at this point yet the scum don't kill you and then you just go into lurker mode. ****ty *** play from a person in your position dude don't be the worst ****ing pseudo-clear in potential endgame of all time.

 

[Chaco]

Well, Frozen, the way you wrote it off as was that I would be your primary target and would push for my lynch. Does that not sound like you were going to, I don't know, push for my lynch? You may be pushing for others as well, but choosing me as your primary target means that I'm first, right? Which doesn't make sense because you have no accusations other than the fact that I'm busy and can't post that much. Which I mean I can't blame you for thinking I might be lurking, but I'm not, so I ask for you to aid my catch up by asking me some questions that you want to know from my reading so I can keep it concise and not miss things, but you just seem to ignore that. So I mean, don't act as if I'm not making an attempt if you're not even willing to ask a few key questions. That goes for all of you, excluding Mentos, who did. And I appreciate it.

 

[Nix2100]

Hey ff READ my last post will you? I've been in the dam hospital this past week k? Just got released a hour ago, heading home now.