Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

[DtJ Jungle]

I like sh double kicking their sheild

 

[Mogwai]

but they you get ***** OoS. I mean, you can do SH dair -> nair -> jabs, but then they can just grab you after the jabs...

 

[Cactuar]

Mogwai should have his own luigi thread. lololol

 

[Pakman]

Mogwai should have his own luigi thread. lololol

Pfft I would have got to it first if I didn't take an early lunch.

Basic approaches? I'm learning and am not quite sure what is best

With Luigi against most characters you are looking for the grab -> aerial -> edge guard. The problem arises when you fight characters who camp and jump a lot. Your best bet is to knock them down and tech chase into grab.

Therefore my general approaches are:

• wd -> sh aerial -> waveland (as Mogwai mentioned, double aerials are asking to get punished) Note: for shield pressure/spacing sometimes you want to delay the aerial so you hit with it right before you hit the ground so they have to deal with the shield stun when you land rather than before you land.
  
• wd -> ftilt: against characters like Peach, fox and marth who are generally jumping/floating - tilt the ftilt upwards and catch them out of the air.
  
• wd -> crouch cancel -> upsmash/dsmash - dsmash to combo upsmash to get off stage. fsmash can work too but it doesn't have as much range.
  

 

[Cactuar]

Yo Pakko. M has to close at work tomorrow night, so I'm free if you want to play. How do I get to your place from 69th?

 

[Pakman]

Yo Pakko. M has to close at work tomorrow night, so I'm free if you want to play. How do I get to your place from 69th?

Yeah lets do it I was gonna cook some chicken.

At 69th street take the 101 Trolley to Media.

Get off at Providence Rd. Its also rt 252. You could even take it to the end of the line and I would be able to pick you up hassle free.

 

[Cactuar]

Sweeeet. I'll probably just call you when I get on the train to 69th and make you explain it to me all over again. We should record as well. Also, I'm gonna be working on my Marth and Roy, so be ready.

 

[Mogwai]

Cactus, I has some friendlies we did at a No Johns and you did some mean things to me that you may want for minibros combo vid.

 

[Cactuar]

Your call on whatever material you want to provide. ^.^ I have faith in your judgement on whether they are good clips or not.

 

[Mogwai]

well, I didn't pull out the **** of you 0-deathing me, I'm just saying that I noticed some of it and that I don't feel like rewatching ^_^

 

[Cactuar]

well, I didn't pull out the **** of you 0-deathing me, I'm just saying that I noticed some of it and that I don't feel like rewatching ^_^

Haha okay. Next time you come, just remind me to pull off all the raw vids onto my external and I'll go through them. I love watching me play. LOVE IT!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Hey, Pakman. Tell me about the Sheik matchup.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Hey Pakman:
I only started recently taking my luigi seriously. I've found him to be a very adaptable character, and for some reason relate my Cfal playing to luigi. What I mean he feels natural. Anyway, his incredible speed and use of wavelanding makes him very mobile, and I enjoy that. On to the question.
One of the moves I find great with luigi is the ftilt. it's got nice range, OK priority, and really helps his spacing game. you probably know all this, none the less, how do you find it most useful? I've been using it mostly for spacing, but it's also a good edgeguard vs. marth. What should I be doing?

 

[Pakman]

Ftilt is Luigi's utility move. By that I mean it has a lot of uses. It has range, speed and enough knockback to be an effective edge guarding maneuver.

I think ftilt's biggest advantage is it's range. You wouldn't think so, but the range of that move rivals marth's fsmash. And just that extra bit of range can mean the difference in a matchup. Characters like doc, mario, pikachu and peach have trouble dealing with properly spaced ftilts.

Another neat thing about ftilt is the advantages you get when tilting it up or down. Ftilt tilted upwards is so useful is some of Luigi's tougher matchups. Peaches think they are safe when floating a little above Luigi's head. Fox's and Marths think they can short hop over an approaching Luigi. The ftilt downward has 0 knockback, which isn't a terrible thing. It can be used as instead of a jab to reset a knocked down character. If you need a little more power in your edge guard you can hit them off stage with ftilt downward and most times people will miss the sweetspot and be asking to get hit.

 

[Winston]

Wavedash ftilt up also apparently combos into another ftilt on floaties ><

I was watching Ka's new vids and he doesn't downsmash ever, he just ftilts or ftilt into ftilt

 

[Dynamism?]

pretty much yeah...

The only time dsmash seems useful these days is jab>dsmash>fair on Marths at some %s and uthrow>dsmash on fasties when they DI away a low %s

:\





Edit: Just remembered why I came to post here....



SOOOO....

Was MMing Diakonos yesterday...

2-1 for him in the set, if I win it's even again.

Brinstar, I have 0% he has 140% as Marth, both last stock.

I ftilt him....he almost dies, will from an easy edgeguard so it's pretty much 2-2 in the set if I don't mess up big time....

THEN!

I WD and the curve of the stage goes down a bit and the lava is just high enough that it hits me....

Ceiling glitch...

pulls me THROUGH the stage...

keeps hitting me, looks like I go up a little then hit a wall like a stagespike but no actual STAGE to tech off....

pulls me downward slowly repeatedly hitting me to about 200%...

Die off the BOTTOM, 0-death combo by the stage when the lava is covering everything but the top platform....

yeah....



We laughed so hard we couldn't even play another match for a while...

Just looked like I had AMAZING SDI lol

 

[Dogysamich]

I ask this same question every half-a-year or so, but this is pretty much how I get to play this matchup.

So what is the matchup like vs doc?

 

[soap]

pakman, do u use fireballs?

like not just to edgeguard falco

ive been trying to find some cool way to use them, like marios fj fireball waveland. Well weegs can do that too, but its not the same.

 

[Pakman]

I ask this same question every half-a-year or so, but this is pretty much how I get to play this matchup.

So what is the matchup like vs doc?

I don't like fighting doc's or any character with a good spammable projectile. Basically because Luigi can't do anything from the air because he falls so slow and has little horizontal movement when airborne. So I am forced to avoid pills by means of shielding, dodging or other evasive maneuvers. I eat jab -> dsmash. Also Luigi's up+b and forward B are very cape-able.

However there are some advantages to fighting doc. Luigi's grab game on doc is pretty good. I think you get a free fair from most percents and DI after a down throw. Doc's grab game on Luigi is pretty lacking. Doc's recovery sucks. I can get stocks from bad DI after an ftilt. Luigi out ranges Doc and he is faster than doc.

I don't like fighting doc, but I would say the matchup is about 50/50. Luigi would have the advantage, but Doc has some pretty good gimps against Luigi.

Moral of the story: Luigi's best strategy for Doc = STAY ON STAGE.

pakman, do u use fireballs?

like not just to edgeguard falco

ive been trying to find some cool way to use them, like marios fj fireball waveland. Well weegs can do that too, but its not the same.

Well my main use of fires balls is edge guarding. Basically you can use the hit stun from a fireball to ftilt or fair a recovering foe. Sometimes I get falcon with an offstage fireball and then I just go all out aggressive, because falcon can't really do anything to you if he is recovering. Fireball hitstun is your friend.

I also use them against characters who camp under platforms. So basically Peach and Marth. Its more of a tactic to get them out then deal damage.

 

[Dynamism?]

fireball to take out Ganons jump after DownBs

stuff like that, always situational cuz its not that good of a moveziez

 

[Smash G 0 D]

If you want to wavedash backwards off the stage to go for a Bair or Dair, you would usually grab the edge. An easy way to get around this is to fireball as you get to the ledge. This will cause you to just slip off of it and you'll have some nice offstage distance. Same goes for if you're facing away from the stage (I do this when edgeguarding Fox/Falco). They'll drop and you'll already be there to catch then with an aerial kill.

 

[Dogysamich]

-doc vs luigi talk-

Aight, so I got my doc/luigi training for this quarter thank you.

For the record, you do realize doc's grab game vs luigi isnt bad at all. At the least Doc can take d.air -> u.air from grabs (which links), and gets a fair at later %s.

 

[Pakman]

Aight, so I got my doc/luigi training for this quarter thank you.

For the record, you do realize doc's grab game vs luigi isnt bad at all. At the least Doc can take d.air -> u.air from grabs (which links), and gets a fair at later %s.

Velocity never did that to me.... His loss I guess.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Doc vs Luigi is never fun if they know the matchup :/ You have to outrange him a lot (ftilt ftw)

 

[Dogysamich]

well, it's once every blue moon that I see a good luigi (I actually have one in state now), and out of all the matchups, this is literally THE ONE I see/have seen the least.

SGod you got any "not fun vs doc" stuff you wanna add to this? ^_^

 

[Blatt Blvd]

docs fair owns luigi at mid percent.

i only played green mario in 2 matches to know this.

could just be green mario's docs fair

 

[Smash G 0 D]

If Doc tries to pill camp, just match the priority with Ftilt.

Wavedash ftilt approach is usually safe.

Ftilt is nice in this matchup.

If you try to sweetspot the edge with UpB recover, watch out for cape! Mario's has a longer horizontal range, but Doc's has more vertical range so you'll get hit.

Don't get grabbed by Doc. You have to be fast (platform wavedashing!), but unpredictable at the same time. If you're predictable, you'll be aerial'd. You DO NOT want to be aerial'd by Doc.

 

[Pakman]

Yeah patience and spacing(read: ftilt) are you best weapons against doc. He can't counter spaced ftilts and dsmashes.

 

[Winston]

Aight, so I got my doc/luigi training for this quarter thank you.

For the record, you do realize doc's grab game vs luigi isnt bad at all. At the least Doc can take d.air -> u.air from grabs (which links), and gets a fair at later %s.

Wait, are you saying that Doc can do dthrow > dair > uair without Luigi being able to nair out of it?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Yeah, if he knows what he's doing. :[

 

[Pakman]

Okay loyal thread followers. Here was a suggestion posed to me by Cactuar.

"It is somewhat safe to do up throw -> uncharged forward B against certain characters. It may be worth it for the chance to misfire and get a free kill. But you miss out on the nice little throw combos."

Discuss.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

wooooooooow

head asplode.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Huh. I'll have to try that out.. but why Upthrow? Wouldn't Dthrow work better ._.?

 

[-ACE-]

Lol I've been going for misfires off throws for years. It's so fun when it hits.

 

[Mogwai]

Huh. I'll have to try that out.. but why Upthrow? Wouldn't Dthrow work better ._.?

I think it's mostly a grood idea vs. CF and Spacies. LOL misfire you at 40, u r ded.

 

[KirbyKaze]

At percents where your only follows from throw on spanimal or whatever is crap (eg. WD F-tilt) then you could probably just gamble it and if it works then yay free KO and if not you miss out on 8%.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Hey, WD Ftilt is most certainly not crap. <.<

 

[KirbyKaze]

But it won't lead to awesome epic like Misfire!

 

[Dynamism?]

For misfires, just make sure you're aiming toward the inside of the stage unless you're 100% gonna hit charged AND uncharged.

If you hit uncharge and they're near the edge, it's a free edgeguard. If it misfires and you miss, you die. If you hit misfire on the far side of the stage, KO or edgeguard. If you miss or hit uncharged on the far side, you get punished.

It takes a while to know when the risk vs reward is there but it's handy yeah.

"Facial!" is a common word in BC when I'm in tourney here ;D

 

[Pakman]

At percents where your only follows from throw on spanimal or whatever is crap (eg. WD F-tilt) then you could probably just gamble it and if it works then yay free KO and if not you miss out on 8%.

Hey, WD Ftilt is most certainly not crap. <.<

Proof that wd ftilt is not crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HARB4gr2js#t=3m15s