Lucario Stage Discussion: Reviewing information

[Timbers]

With Aura though it really is more beneficial for everyone to live longer on a stage, and of course when Lucario lives longer on a stage everyone else dies faster.

It doesn't really matter when (I at least feel that) luc's kill potential gets shafted kind of badly on FD. The opponent is grounded much more often, shutting out uair, nair, bair, and sometimes AS as dependable killers.

Don't think about the aurasphere as a charged shot that kills, think of it as a zoning tool. You're shutting down options and approaching behind it more than anything. Jump and fire small ones to lock down some people on the ground.

If anything FD makes aurasphere more useful because you can annoy/pressure more characters from farther away than other stages. If you want to get in a big one, wait until up close and they leave themselves open and fire away.

It can be used for either. AS is versatile and in that sense it should be thought of as so, not just labeled to "zoning tool" or "killmove," because it's really both.

AS on grounded opponents has never appealed to me. A lot of characters can get in fast against you when grounded, throw up a PS and punish AS afterlag.

 

[Gea]

The point was that too many people feel like every aurasphere needs to hit its target or it was wasted. I don't see near enough small aura ball spam when I watch alot of 'Carios play. Instead they charge and hold it like it was DK's punch.

 

[|RK|]

I spam it like that. It forces approaches on those w/out projectiles and reflectors. Sometimes I shorthop and ground spam them, and Final Destination is the place I do this most. In fact, I start my battles off with it. And in my Copy Ability guide, I noted that.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

On a Random note, at what percent does Lucario's Fully Charged Aura-Sphere allow him to hit people that are hanging on the Ledge? Not everyone can be hit, but I've noticed it most on this stage and on Battlefield that Lucario's Aura Sphere can just barely tap (in other words Masacre) people that try to hang from the Ledge. Can anyone confirm who this hits and/if there's a specific percent range that Lucario needs to be at?

 

[jog]

did the kirby's convert you RK Joker? you *******... does this mean you'll be spamming their boards instead of this one though?

 

[|RK|]

I don't spam. Wow, only like, two Lucarios actually hate me. You and Bear. I'm still a Lucario main. But since Kirby is my second main, I decided, why not? After all, Kawaii main ICs, but there's a Kirby under his/her (sorry IDK) avi. Seriously, why do you people hate me? You are holding that DT thing against me, which I openly admit that I was thoroughly incorrect.

On to more important matters, didn't you say that the FD discussion was over? What's the next stage?

 

[jog]

i don't hate you, i just like trolling you because its so easy. but dude you do make a **** load of topics...

and i said i think there's enough to make a summary but i also said i wanted to give it a few more days and make sure we get everything in before we move on and not be premature about it. i'll probably pick the next stage tomorrow night.

 

[|RK|]

Yeah, next time I'll just PM you to make my next idea

Hold on, gotta bump something...

 

[Aurasmash14]

RK people will keep ignoring (or hating) you so long as you dont have any control of your thoughts and spam threads shoot like rockets. on the subject of FD we're nearly done jog just give him a few more hours.

 

[tedward2000]

As a idea, Jog, perhaps you could make BattleField the next stage of topic.
I kinda missed the ball on FD, but I have some info and qualms about BF.

And RK, next time you have a influx of ideas, write them down on a word document, then decide which one it the best/most important. Then after that decide if it is truly needed.
Posting every idea you have can be good, but if you post them all at the same time, together they steal steam and just end up killing them selves.

So think about what you post before doing so. You have all the time in the world to post, so use some of it.
(I'm not trying to be mean either, just insightful)
-t2

 

[|RK|]

Nah, only the Newcarios hate me. But yeah, I'll either force someone else to make the topic or take Teddy idea. Besides, it was just one day...

Anyways, I think that we should also include non-tournament legal stages later on. It'd be an interesting and enlightening thing to do...

 

[Kitamerby]

On a Random note, at what percent does Lucario's Fully Charged Aura-Sphere allow him to hit people that are hanging on the Ledge? Not everyone can be hit, but I've noticed it most on this stage and on Battlefield that Lucario's Aura Sphere can just barely tap (in other words Masacre) people that try to hang from the Ledge. Can anyone confirm who this hits and/if there's a specific percent range that Lucario needs to be at?

STOP USING BLACK TEXT, DAMMIT.

The point was that too many people feel like every aurasphere needs to hit its target or it was wasted. I don't see near enough small aura ball spam when I watch alot of 'Carios play. Instead they charge and hold it like it was DK's punch.

Aura Sphere is versatile, use it as you wish. Often it is preferred to be kept as a pocket ranged fsmash that can be used in the air with even more range, due to its sheer kill power and horrible lag on BAS. Most Lucarios usually avoid BAS, because in general, BAS just plain sucks hard. You get lots of lag and very slow rate of fire, with little damage and you're staling your best kill move for the sake of "mindgames." It's just generally not smart to use BAS in most matchups from my experience.

Don't think about the aurasphere as a charged shot that kills, think of it as a zoning tool. You're shutting down options and approaching behind it more than anything. Jump and fire small ones to lock down some people on the ground.

If anything FD makes aurasphere more useful because you can annoy/pressure more characters from farther away than other stages. If you want to get in a big one, wait until up close and they leave themselves open and fire away.

But then if we use it to zone, we can't use it to kill, which means our kill options will be even more limited than usual, and they're already pretty bad. :<

your right, if your talking about azen.

Azen doesn't momentum cancel properly, even if he has good DI. FD has a pretty big ceiling.

 

[jog]

Nah, only the Newcarios hate me. But yeah, I'll either force someone else to make the topic or take Teddy idea. Besides, it was just one day...

Anyways, I think that we should also include non-tournament legal stages later on. It'd be an interesting and enlightening thing to do...

if you're referring to me as a "newcario" i laugh i've been on the lucario boards before you were here. and i doubt we'll do the non-tournament stages, it would just be a waste of time. but if for some reason we do talk about them it will only be after every other stage is done.

Edit:
(I wish i would have reserved the first post *facepalm*)

But it request of tedward2000 (and because I was gonna pick it anyways since it's my favorite neutral stage for almost any character ) I give you BATTLEFIELD!

 

[Xerxes]

I hate FD for quite a few reasons but the most hated is chain grabs.
See that is where battlefield comes into play, the platforms make for some really messed up mindgames and its a fairly small stage so chaingrabs won't work and campers get fairly screwed by the platforms. I give battlefield a 9.5 out of 10

 

[Kitamerby]

I hate FD for quite a few reasons but the most hated is chain grabs.
See that is where battlefield comes into play, the platforms make for some really messed up mindgames and its a fairly small stage so chaingrabs won't work and campers get fairly screwed by the platforms. I give battlefield a 9.5 out of 10

Final Destination is sadly always going to be one of our best stages. The only character who can chaingrab you is King Dedede, anyways.


Meanwhile, we have rather poor platform pressure, no walls to allow a mix up in our recovery... Are susceptible to platform camping, our worst matchups are against people who rock this stage, eh.

Also, Lucario is a defensive character who likes camping. We can't camp too well on BF. :<


I think this is definitely one of our worse stages overall. Not close to our worst, but definitely not a good one for us. At least it doesn't tilt.

 

[Gea]

If you want to use aurasphere to kill then stop spamming when they get to mid/high %s and by the time it will kill it is fresh. There you go. Mixing up is a great asset to everyone's game, and on FD projectile zoning makes a *huge* difference, even if the launch rate is slow. Just be careful of spacing.

 

[Kitamerby]

If you want to use aurasphere to kill then stop spamming when they get to mid/high %s and by the time it will kill it is fresh. There you go. Mixing up is a great asset to everyone's game, and on FD projectile zoning makes a *huge* difference, even if the launch rate is slow. Just be careful of spacing.

By mid%s, it won't take 9 hits to get someone to a point where Aura Sphere might've killed if it was fresh. Sadly, we're not Diddy Kong, so we don't need to Fair Blair Dair Care Bear just to rack on 15%. Aura Sphere is a great projectile to throw at a recovering opponent, to punish landing frames, or to just in general punish when you don't have time to space a fsmash tipper. It really depends on the matchup, though. Some characters have a harder time dealing with BAS,(coughDK/Peachcough) and others can just speed along and powershield through them (coughMETAKNIGHT/MARTHcough).

 

[Gea]

I doubt the only moves you'll be landing during spam are 9 auraspheres. It isn't even meant for hitting people per se.

All I'm saying is that many players are underutilizing a use of it, especially on FD.

 

[|RK|]

The platforms make Micro D-Air really good on taller characters. We can also use U-Smash if we are below the opponent (if you time it right). The platforms once again are excellent for mindgames. Whether swishing through or avoiding punishment. They give three more areas to tech off of if sent downwards. It also helps save you from Pikachu's Thunder. However, characters like Kirby and Meta-Knight can use their awesome U-Throw for a kill here. 4/5

(Jog, I didn't mean you...)

 

[Timbers]

The point was that too many people feel like every aurasphere needs to hit its target or it was wasted. I don't see near enough small aura ball spam when I watch alot of 'Carios play. Instead they charge and hold it like it was DK's punch.

oh I got ya.

In this sense I agree. It shuts down a lot of aerial approaches and can force their hand, to either go on full offense or airdodge/outprioritize the sphere, which gives you the opportunity to followup on the afterlag. It's still a pisspoor move on grounded opponents and I don't like using often on those who stay grounded (Snake, DDD) or their airgame is fast enough and powerful enough to just trash spheres at any percent (Marth, GaW) and so I pocket them and use them during ideal times, rather than throwing small ones out at any percent to zone, when it's more or less a futile attempt against characters like these. Pocketing a sphere and holding it like DK's punch is sometimes a good idea, it just depends on who you're playing. I agree it should be considered a zoning tool more often than a killmove, but it can be used for both.

All I'm saying is that many players are underutilizing a use of it, especially on FD.

I'd actually say that sphere is rather poor on FD. A lot of characters can abuse the longrange-esque feel of FD more than Lucario, and less platforms means less chances to abuse landing frames. Less platforms means more often times they'll be grounded, and a grounded opponent can deal with an AS much more easily than an aerial one.


I like battlefield a lot. Lucario can utilize a lot of strats and pressure he normally wouldn't be able to do here. The only thing that sucks about this is that so many characters just do this better than he does. It's hard to say an overall number on this stage. It can be a 10/10 in some cases, and then a 3/10 in others. I guess 6/10 or 7/10 would be a good average.

 

[Gea]

Agree'd with Timbers. Fair also ***** people on platforms and gives you the option to chase or drift back as long as you are below them. In general Lucario can use platforms very well.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

No one answered my last question! ;.; I'm only bothering to bring it up again because on long, flat, linear stages, it applies. At what Percent is Lucario's Fully-Charged-AuraSphere capable of hitting people on the ledge? I've noticed it a lot on Final Destination, I've noticed it on Smashville, and I've also seen it a few times on Battlefield. Is there a specific percent, or specific enemies?

AND DON'T MOCK THE DEMONIC TEXT! I'LL KILL YOU! *eats non-believer*

 

[|RK|]

IDK. I did it before, but don't remember the exact percentage. Try 150%?

 

[jog]

No one answered my last question! ;.; I'm only bothering to bring it up again because on long, flat, linear stages, it applies. At what Percent is Lucario's Fully-Charged-AuraSphere capable of hitting people on the ledge? I've noticed it a lot on Final Destination, I've noticed it on Smashville, and I've also seen it a few times on Battlefield. Is there a specific percent, or specific enemies?

AND DON'T MOCK THE DEMONIC TEXT! I'LL KILL YOU! *eats non-believer*

just go test it >_>

 

[The_Bear735]

No one answered my last question! ;.; I'm only bothering to bring it up again because on long, flat, linear stages, it applies. At what Percent is Lucario's Fully-Charged-AuraSphere capable of hitting people on the ledge? I've noticed it a lot on Final Destination, I've noticed it on Smashville, and I've also seen it a few times on Battlefield. Is there a specific percent, or specific enemies?

AND DON'T MOCK THE DEMONIC TEXT! I'LL KILL YOU! *eats non-believer*

It's probably available at the latter half of the aura spectrum, but you should go test it if you're so curious.

 

[Gea]

Maybe no one answered your question because you go out of your way to make it difficult for anyone to read what you type, and somehow think that such an annoyance is stylish to any degree.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Please if you want to make a text stylish, dont make it invisible. (I dare you to eat me.) On the subject of battlefield I agree with Timbers. it depends on who we're fighting. if Marth it goes way dowwwwwnn to 3/10 but if someone like bowser, 8 or so.

id give BF a score between 7-8/10.

 

[jog]

Please if you want to make a text stylish, dont make it invisible. (I dare you to eat me.) On the subject of battlefield I agree with Timbers. it depends on who we're fighting. if Marth it goes way dowwwwwnn to 3/10 but if someone like bowser, 8 or so.

id give BF a score between 7-8/10.

I would like it if someone gave me a list of who to ban this stage against and who to try and take here, I'm sill learning too

I know this stage ***** DK (once you're under him, like Bowser, he can camp the platforms pretty well) and I can see why this stage is good for Marf and Olimar too.

Also where is t2? He wanted to discuss battlefield!

 

[|RK|]

I so answered your question 2DM.

EDIT: With sortofkindof a guess.

EDIT: Jog, I suggested non-legal stages because the Kirby's are doing that.

 

[nightSN]

in bf we cant wallcling. theres a bad. LOL

 

[Timbers]

I would like it if someone gave me a list of who to ban this stage against and who to try and take here, I'm sill learning too

I know this stage ***** DK (once you're under him, like Bowser, he can camp the platforms pretty well) and I can see why this stage is good for Marf and Olimar too.

Also where is t2? He wanted to discuss battlefield!

I hate DK on BF lol.


Avoid taking MK, Snake, Olimar, Luigi, GaW, Marth to battlefield.

 

[Gea]

Why hate on DK on BF? His tilts? Just curious.

Also I wouldn't really take a Peach to BF. She enjoys having a platform above her and you can't dair her if you are above her. Makes it much harder to get back down.

 

[kailo34ce]

gea wat joo doowin uhn lucario boreds

btw BF is like the best place to take marth >_>..why would you not go there shet son..

and if you dont believe me ask lee...sillt lucariotards

and gea i dont think peach can keep lucario in the air =]..only the fact that she can force lucario to approach(possibly) cuz turnips makes it seem good for peach..


also im god **** amazing...

45% as amazing as gea

 

[tedward2000]

Poof.

Besides everything Timbers has said. BF is fun for lucarios alike. Medium ranges, small stage, multi-platforms that make tilting and Nair happy.

The platforms put a sort of barrier between those grounded and those in the air, which for charging AS purposes is noice. Up-tilt im more then sure goes through the bottom two platforms, and a SH Nair will sweep a platform.

However, I personally hate platforms. It's a handicap for my self, because my falling through platforms when needed is severally lacking. They're like aerial bumpers. They just make it easier for your opponent to land and be safe from a traveling AS.

As from recovery, the bottom of BF is much smaller range, so spikes can kill easier then if on FD. Then there's the under the stage recovering, which some characters can pull off (MK for example). Maybe lucario can recover underneath the stage too, I dunno, haven't tried it.

Overall, its not super good for lucario, but can be harmful against other characters (aka what timbers said again).
-t2

*edit
I dun like #/# stuff, but ill give it a 6. (-4 cause of stupid platforms.)

 

[Timbers]

Why hate on DK on BF? His tilts? Just curious.

Also I wouldn't really take a Peach to BF. She enjoys having a platform above her and you can't dair her if you are above her. Makes it much harder to get back down.

DK's vulnerable in the air. Giving him more chances at landing safely and being able to get the shield up makes it difficult to pressure him. Luc's plat pressure is pretty mediocre to begin with, too. His usmash also becomes something you need to watch out for, which in normal cases it's just an afterthought to not land on top of him.

Stages like Final D and Smashville, where the stage is normally free from platforms (or at least alternate height plats) it makes it easier to juggle him and easier to manage him with AS.

 

[Gea]

and gea i dont think peach can keep lucario in the air =]..only the fact that she can force lucario to approach(possibly) cuz turnips makes it seem good for peach..


also im god **** amazing...

45% as amazing as gea

He can't jump around nearly as much or control platforms nearly as much. Shield any fairs and abuse your tilts/turnips. If anyone lands on a platform above you, spam that utilt. Utilt totally ***** on BF. You can shieldpush people off of the platforms into ftilt or even usmash if you are quick and they don't know what's going on. Lucario does much better against Peach when he can fulljump fair as an option to pressure her.

That's out of my experience anyways.

And against DK as Cario take him to Yoshi's. The platform in the middle totally gimps his approach. Though if he knows how to spinning kong from the edges to approach while invincible it could make it much more difficult for you. 3 frame window for that makes it semi-difficult and most Kongs hate that stage.

Also Kailo on the Lucario boards? WTF. <3

 

[kailo34ce]

dude we joined swf in the same month,awesome, also yeah you prolly have a tad more exp than me but my rm uses peach and we do that from time to time,oh nore,you know him lol...anyway idk i just assume dk wrecks lucario and its all about having fun lol..unless you camp his fat ***

 

[Gea]

Too good. Hopefully we can play this weekend at the DS.

 

[jog]

Too good. Hopefully we can play this weekend at the DS.

you're going to DS this weekend?

:on topic:

as far as DK goes i know when i used GW more and played DKs on BF he was very easy to juggle. because once you were under him and the plats stopped his fall he couldn't really get up in time to shield or prepare for the next hit. so with the stage being smaller and the platforms cut down on him landing on the main part of the stage, i find him very easy to juggle. so in lucario's case with fair, bair, up-air, bair, nair, and care bear.

 

[Gea]

Yes, on the note of DK I might be playing more DK now, so you can test BF on my DK with your Cario if you wish.