[19:00] <Infin> *Ahem*
[19:00] <Infin> Good evening ladycarios and lordcarios.
[19:00] <Infin> And those... in between.
[19:00] <hichez> Lets start off with some general though
[19:01] <hichez> *thoughts
[19:01] <Infin> Today we are discussing the King Dedede MU.
[19:01] <Red_Ryu> Don't get grabbed
[19:01] <hichez> Red Ryu has the right idea
[19:01] <Infin> What are your general thoughts when "GO!" is announced.
[19:02] <Red_Ryu> charge AS and shield the waddle dee he throws at you if they stay predictable
[19:02] <Infin> What if its an aggro player like Atomsk?
[19:02] <hichez> Platforms help in this matchup considerably
[19:03] <Bedfox> Provided the D3 doesn't have good Utilt timing...?
[19:03] <Red_Ryu> then charge Aura sphere and react accordingly
[19:03] <Red_Ryu> if he rushed instead of a waddle dee
[19:03] <Red_Ryu> throw
[19:03] <Infin> AS?
[19:03] <Bedfox> Or is the simple answer there just to not be on them at kill percent.
[19:03] <Red_Ryu> Aura Sphere
[19:03] <Infin> Then what if it gets powershielded?
[19:04] <Red_Ryu> don't throw it
[19:04] <Red_Ryu> just charge it to get it ready
[19:04] <Infin> D3's running at you, what do you do?
[19:04] <hichez> Generally you don't want to approach DDD while he on the ground so if he rushed you wait until he attacks then punish
[19:04] <Infin> There we go.
[19:04] <flamewavekei> run away
[19:04] <flamewavekei> there
[19:04] <flamewavekei> thats the MU
[19:04] <Infin> Thank you.
[19:05] <Red_Ryu> If DDD runs at you
[19:05] <Red_Ryu> don't panic
[19:05] <Red_Ryu> and think what is he going to do
[19:05] <Red_Ryu> Dash grab/sheild
[19:05] <hichez> If DDD runs at you don't shield
[19:05] <Infin> Make sure you always carefully use your second jump.
[19:05] <Infin> Never use it too early.
[19:06] <Bedfox> I HAVE A QUESTION
[19:06] <hichez> ask
[19:06] <Bedfox> What does your aura have to be like for a fully charging AS to prevent his grab?
[19:07] <hichez> he can grab you either way
[19:07] <Infin> Remember your options out of a charging AS.
[19:07] <Infin> ASC jump, fire, roll.
[19:07] <Infin> Don't be silly like me and roll towards D3 a lot.
[19:08] <Bedfox>
I woul've thought if it was super large it might be out of his range. And yeah, you can jump out and.../or shoot
[19:08] <Bedfox> lol
[19:08] <hichez> If you are charging in the air you would shield cancel to FP if the situation allows you to
[19:08] <hichez> *could
[19:08] <Infin> Wouldn't his shield grab come out quicker?
[19:09] <Red_Ryu> you could roll at him as a mix up if he is in the air
[19:09] <hichez> not if it on frame 1
[19:09] <Red_Ryu> but remember
[19:09] <Red_Ryu> it is a mix-up don't rely on it as an approach
[19:09] <Infin> ASC doesn't cancel into a 1 frame Force Palm.
[19:09] <Bedfox> If he saw it coming then he'd be faster. Yeah, what Ryu said.
[19:09] <hichez> yeah your right infin
[19:09] <hichez> mybad
[19:09] <Infin> You still gotta go through 8 frames of startup then have to touch the ground on frame 9.
[19:10] <Red_Ryu> unless you do it while landing
[19:10] <Red_Ryu> then it comes out frame 1
[19:10] <Red_Ryu> if you do it right
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[19:10] <Infin> You still go through 8 frames.
[19:10] <Red_Ryu> you do?
[19:10] <Infin> Yes
[19:11] <Red_Ryu> I thought when doing the landing Force palm trick it grabbed on frame 1
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[19:11] <Infin> No
[19:11] <DDisciple> yooo
[19:11] <DDisciple> I'm gonna be lurking
[19:11] <Infin> You still have to go through 8 frames before it initates.
[19:11] <Red_Ryu> hi disciple
[19:11] <Red_Ryu> ah ok
[19:11] <Infin> Think...
[19:12] <Infin> Falco's silent laser distance off the ground.
[19:12] <Red_Ryu> I'll use it as a situational command grab if DDD gets sheild happy
[19:12] <Infin> Right.
[19:12] <hichez> So I think what troubling with this matchup is approaching
[19:12] <hichez> Whats our options
[19:12] <Infin> You might want to do an empty FAir to land behind him with FP.
[19:12] <Infin> Well
[19:13] <Infin> With Dedede and Snake...
[19:13] <Infin> If you whittle away their shields....
[19:13] <Infin> There's nothing they can do to stop you from approaching.
[19:13] <Red_Ryu> you can fair and jump back
[19:13] <hichez> Well DDD can out camp lucario so I don't think that is really an option
[19:13] <Red_Ryu> to poke
[19:14] <Red_Ryu> uhh not really
[19:14] <Red_Ryu> if either gets the lead
[19:14] <Red_Ryu> they will approach the other
[19:14] <Infin> Waddles are either your friend or your enemy.
[19:14] <Infin> If they just spam them...
[19:14] <Infin> Hey free move refreshment, no?
[19:14] <Red_Ryu> that works
[19:14] <hichez> exactly
[19:15] <hichez> Well it comes down to the fact of we have to wait until DDD makes a mistake unless I am missing something
[19:15] <Red_Ryu> Really Lucario can play keep away if he gets the lead
[19:16] <Red_Ryu> maybe a vid could help
[19:16] <Red_Ryu> Junebug is really good at the MU
[19:16] <Red_Ryu> beat Atmosk
[19:16] <Red_Ryu> and I think CO18
[19:16] <Red_Ryu> or did he?
[19:16] <Infin> Remember fresh BAir does 13% sweet spot
[19:16] <Infin> Sour 10%.
[19:17] <hichez> ok
[19:17] <Red_Ryu> also
[19:17] <Infin> 21% Aura Spheres'll always beat it.
[19:17] <hichez> We need a DDD player in here
[19:17] <DDisciple> look up Junebug vs Atomsk
[19:17] <DDisciple> or any of Zucco's matches
[19:17] <DDisciple> even Stauffy has two recent ones
[19:17] <Red_Ryu> they play the MU well
[19:17] <Red_Ryu> wait
[19:17] <flamewavekei> Zucco
[19:17] <Red_Ryu> Stauffy?
[19:17] <flamewavekei> June
[19:17] <flamewavekei> Stauffy
[19:17] <flamewavekei> All good at the DDD MU
[19:17] <Red_Ryu> I thought he quit?
[19:17] <flamewavekei> I'm decent at it
[19:17] <flamewavekei> but I kinda gave up
[19:18] <hichez> why
[19:18] <DDisciple> Trela too
[19:18] <flamewavekei> he went to the san diego tournament
[19:18] <flamewavekei> because Lee Martin was there
[19:18] <Red_Ryu> oh
[19:18] <Red_Ryu> anyways as we know DDD has that new gay Usmash out of Dthrow on us
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[19:19] <Autumn> is that so
[19:19] <Red_Ryu> yeah
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[19:19] <Red_Ryu> if he buffers the Usmash
[19:19] <Espy> It's poetry in motion, really.
[19:19] <Red_Ryu> with a jump cancel
[19:19] <Autumn> oh, brawl
[19:19] <Autumn> boring as
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[19:19] <hichez> lol
[19:19] <Red_Ryu> he gets a free Usmash
[19:19] <flamewavekei> I have informed coney that we are discussing
[19:19] <Infin> Does it always work even on uneven stages?
[19:20] <flamewavekei> free upsmash is gay
[19:20] <flamewavekei> I'm not sure
[19:20] <flamewavekei> It seems to work
[19:20] <flamewavekei> I get it to work
[19:20] <hichez> what is DDD worst stage
[19:20] <flamewavekei> beef gets it to work
[19:20] <flamewavekei> T_T
[19:20] <Infin> Lylat and YI may be a saving grace....
[19:20] <flamewavekei> Brinstar
[19:20] <flamewavekei> nope
[19:20] <flamewavekei> it works most of the time
[19:20] <Espy> ^
[19:20] <flamewavekei> I always try to DI down and shield
[19:20] <flamewavekei> or DI up and jump
[19:21] <Espy> at what percentage does it usually KO lucario?
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[19:21] <flamewavekei> 120
[19:21] <Red_Ryu> If japes is legal
[19:21] <Red_Ryu> that is the best stgae for us imo
[19:21] <flamewavekei> DDD is fine on japes
[19:21] <flamewavekei> but we can live
[19:21] <Espy> Mmk, I was bettin' around that area.
[19:21] <Red_Ryu> he do better
[19:21] <flamewavekei> forever even with the upsmash thing
[19:21] <Infin> I wouldn't take a D3 there...
[19:21] <flamewavekei> DDD controls the middle so well though..
[19:21] <flamewavekei> <_<
[19:21] <Red_Ryu> is that any different from SV?
[19:21] <hichez> Lucario doesn't have to go to the middle on Japes though
[19:22] <Infin> Remember
[19:22] <Espy> He does if he's losing percentage-wise
[19:22] <Infin> If both of the Waddles are in hitsun.
[19:22] <Infin> D3 cannot pull out another.
[19:22] <hichez> Even if lucario is losing percentage wise you could probally bait an approach
[19:22] <flamewavekei> myth
[19:22] <Ares> utilt is good for hitting waddles cuz it keeps them alive but in the air
[19:22] <flamewavekei> call me
[19:22] <flamewavekei> I need to find my phone
[19:22] <flamewavekei> :x
[19:23] <Infin> >.>
[19:23] <Red_Ryu> Coney thinks we're being whiny about this MU
[19:23] <Red_Ryu> and it's not that bad
[19:23] <Espy> Coney does that with plenty of Dedede's advantageous MUs
[19:23] <Infin> So basically.
[19:24] <Red_Ryu> he does?
[19:24] <Infin> So far...
[19:24] <Espy> sorta
[19:24] <Infin> Platform camp, use Waddles for move refreshment if hey spam it...
[19:24] <Infin> What stages would be good for us?
[19:24] <Ares> Maybe lylat?
[19:25] <Infin> What stages to avoid?
[19:25] <hichez> I would say YI
[19:25] <hichez> FD
[19:25] <Espy> Umm...would Rainbow Cruise be okay?
[19:25] <Infin> What about using Smashville for the moving platform.
[19:25] <Espy> I'd think it'd be a hit or miss.
[19:25] <Infin> Ex. Platform camping, wheeeee.
[19:25] <Infin> Personally, I don't like RC.
[19:26] <Red_Ryu> I don't like it
[19:26] <hichez> I have seen plenty of lucarios go Frigate and do alright
[19:26] <Infin> BAir wall all day and well that infinite really limits us to like ugh.
[19:26] <Red_Ryu> don't go frigate
[19:26] <Red_Ryu> I also hate Delfino
[19:26] <Red_Ryu> so many walls and walkoff
[19:26] <Infin> Yet we can't ban them all
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> I'd bad Delfino
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> imo
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> ban*
[19:27] <Infin> And deal with D3 on RC?
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> yes
[19:27] <Espy> You'd also have to be wary of Castle Siege
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> I think Siege is more do able
[19:27] <Infin> The middle transformation, abut...
[19:27] <Espy> Oh, most definitely, RR
[19:27] <Infin> We can platform camp anyway.
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> still
[19:27] <flamewavekei> Siege, SV
[19:27] <Red_Ryu> we should be careful of the
[19:27] <flamewavekei> Battlefield
[19:27] <Espy> The platforms help, but I'm not solely talking about the second phase.
[19:27] <flamewavekei> Frigate
[19:27] <flamewavekei> is really good
[19:28] <hichez> I would ban FD
[19:28] <Red_Ryu> Atmosk cps it a lot against Succo
[19:28] <Espy> What about the concern with the inbetween transitions on Siege?
[19:28] <flamewavekei> Siege's only bad spot 2nd
[19:28] <flamewavekei> and even then
[19:28] <flamewavekei> we can run away from DDD there
[19:28] <flamewavekei> EASY
[19:28] <Infin> Run away? :x
[19:28] <Red_Ryu> due
[19:28] <Red_Ryu> if he could stay on the second part with the lead
[19:28] <Red_Ryu> we could run
[19:28] <Red_Ryu> but
[19:28] <Red_Ryu> he need to be careful
[19:29] <Espy> Does the third phase disrupt Dedede's chaingrab on Lucario, or is it still doable?
[19:29] <Red_Ryu> to be Cruise and Delfino are my worries
[19:29] <Red_Ryu> stage wise
[19:29] <flamewavekei> its still doable
[19:29] <hichez> no
[19:29] <hichez> Battlefield is good if you like it because the stage is really short
[19:29] <flamewavekei> but it makes them mess up more
[19:29] <Espy> Alrighty
[19:29] <Infin> So...
[19:29] <Infin> Bans: RC, Delfino
[19:30] <hichez> RC or lylat ryu?
[19:30] <Infin> CP: Lylat, BF, YI
[19:30] <Red_Ryu> RC or Delfino
[19:30] <Red_Ryu> Lylat is fine imo
[19:30] <Espy> Is Brinstar a good CP?
[19:30] <Red_Ryu> more and more I think about it
[19:30] <hichez> Why wouldn't you ban FD? Delfino isn't that bad is it?
[19:30] <Red_Ryu> I think Cruise is Lucario's worst stage
[19:30] <Red_Ryu> overall
[19:30] <Ares> delfino has walkoffs and walls
[19:30] <Red_Ryu> ^this
[19:31] <Red_Ryu> that is far worse than lack of platforms
[19:31] <Ares> ^
[19:31] <Infin> Lylat is a fine stage for Lucario
[19:31] <Ares>
[19:31] <hichez> But on delfino there are plently of plays to aviod them
[19:31] <Infin> Higher ceiling means Lucario lives longer.
[19:31] <Red_Ryu> that as well
[19:31] <Infin> Messes with non bendable recoveries, etc.
[19:31] <Ares> stage messes with ddd's recovery when it turns
[19:31] <Espy> hichez, there is a formation on Delfino that has no method of avoiding walk off chaingrabs
[19:31] <Espy> aside from just jumping and running away, I mean.
[19:31] <Red_Ryu> yeah there is a flat walkoff part
[19:32] <Red_Ryu> with no platforms
[19:32] <Red_Ryu> or anything
[19:32] <Espy> The staircase formation.
[19:32] <Infin> Anyone know how long each delfino transformation lasts?
[19:32] <Espy> and then there is that one phase that has the level end incredibly close to the horizontal blast zones.
[19:32] <Infin> Thankfully we can wall cling.
[19:33] <Ares> i think its agreed delfino should b banned
[19:33] <Red_Ryu> or Cruise
[19:33] <Red_Ryu> it depends
[19:33] <Infin> Or Halberd.
[19:33] <Red_Ryu> why Halberd?
[19:33] <Ares> cruise has 2 spots that have walls right? dont last very long
[19:33] <Infin> Low ceiling.
[19:33] <Espy> Cruise also has a walk off on the final stretch before returning to the ship.
[19:33] <Red_Ryu> I guess that is a point
[19:33] <Red_Ryu> brb
[19:34] <Espy> and it has three wall "infinites", actually.
[19:34] <hichez> Cruise is all about how well you know the stage you can go under it and wall cling if you really have to
[19:34] <Ares> oh , forgot about that part
[19:34] <Espy> The right side of the ship, the corner after the pendulum swing, and the corner immediately before returning to the ship.
[19:34] <hichez> On cruise there are platforms on the walk off edges part
[19:35] <Infin> There's many opportunities for D3 to just grab and either infinite you or get you trapped in a walk off.
[19:35] <hichez> After hearing the argument I would say that you should ban Delfino if you know RC really well
[19:35] <Infin> Lucario can somewhat shark on Delfino.
[19:36] <Ares> only on the part that doesnt have walkoffs/walls lol..the floating platform..
[19:36] <Espy> Can't Dedede dair?
[19:36] <Infin> Yes.
[19:36] <Espy> or just, you know, jump?
[19:36] <Infin> But it has quite a bit of landing lag.
[19:36] <Espy> or even spotdodge?
[19:37] <Infin> True
[19:37] <Infin> But options are options, right?
[19:37] <Espy> mm
[19:37] <Ares> thats like saying take ICs to FD cuz u can just jump
[19:37] <Ares> to avoid grab...
[19:38] <hichez> Well it's not realistic to avoid every grab from DDD and you won't.
[19:38] <Infin> Watch out for the distance of D3's pivot grab.
[19:38] <Bedfox> Arg, missed something. I wanted to ask how Luc's Bair would do against fighting D3 Bair walls, since Luc's would slightly outrange it if they were both fully tippering...but I figure you're gonna say D3's just don't let that happen or something?
[19:38] <DDisciple> My input on this about Lucario vs D3 on Delfino
[19:39] <DDisciple> Sharking is meh on that stage. I rather be above him, hopping from platform to platform. Until we can get on the ground
[19:39] <DDisciple> If we really have to shark, I would rather shoot aura spheres through the stage, to make him jump so I can get to the other side safely
[19:39] <hichez> Lucario doesn't really need the ground in the MU other than to get Fsmash
[19:39] <hichez> Or kill in general
[19:40] <Infin> Yeah I wouldn't try to shark more than once or twice throughout the whole game.
[19:40] <hichez> Most of the damage will be done in the air or with AS
[19:40] <DDisciple> unless you can get grabs really well, you really want the ground
[19:40] <Infin> Unless if they are dum and always fall for it.
[19:40] <hichez> why would we depend on grabbing DDD?
[19:40] <Infin> If we grab D3 we get him in the air.
[19:40] <Ares> uthrow followups
[19:41] <hichez> Yeah I wouldn't depend on it though
[19:41] <Infin> I personally don't like Uthrough much unless if its Fox/Wolf.
[19:41] <Infin> throw*
[19:41] <Ares> i used to do dthrow all the time, but starting to uthrow
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[19:41] <hichez> Same
[19:41] <DDisciple> the follow ups from uthrow are nice, but become useless once D3 gets at higher percents
[19:41] <Ares> for some reason, i can't seem to follow up with dthrow anymore..
[19:41] <DDisciple> by that time, it's better to just use bthrow or fthrow
[19:42] <Infin> Remember once you're over 75% at = % your Fthrow is your most damaging throw.
[19:42] <Ares> i do like the tip of pummeling til they start mashing..then fthrow
[19:42] <Ares> to mess with di
[19:42] <Infin> er = stocks
[19:42] <DDisciple> yep
[19:42] <DDisciple> that 13%
[19:43] <hichez> Lets talk end game
[19:43] <hichez> how do you kill the penguin?
[19:43] <Infin> I thought Bthrow, Dthrow, and Fthrow all did like 10.5% at 75%.
[19:43] <DDisciple> fthrow does more
[19:43] <DDisciple> bthrow and dthrow do 10.5%
[19:44] <DDisciple> pummel, then bthrow or dthrow = 11%
[19:44] <Infin>
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1382/auramythtrainerinfinity.png
[19:44] <Infin> At 75% they should be equalish
[19:45] <Infin> Whittle down his shield and dair or FSmash?
[19:45] <Infin> Force him to land into a smash.
[19:45] <hichez> That could take time
[19:45] <DDisciple> aura sphere
[19:45] <Infin> Footstool? lol
[19:45] <DDisciple> or my new way of killing them
[19:46] <DDisciple> grab release off stage to nair
[19:46] <Infin> If they are sheild happy Froce Palm landing grab could work as a mixup.
[19:46] <hichez> that is intresting
[19:46] <Ares> guarenteed?
[19:46] <Ares> or read?
[19:46] <DDisciple> I showed Flame
[19:46] <DDisciple> RT saw me do it against Fogo
[19:46] <DDisciple> but then I died cause I was shocked
[19:46] <hichez> I havn't used Nair for killing because it has a lot of ending lag in the air
[19:46] <Infin> lol
[19:46] <DDisciple> you actually have time to jump and recover after doing it
[19:46] <Ares> Dark, is that guarenteed?
[19:47] <Infin> You could also use NAir to trap landings on platforms ex. Lylat/bf
[19:47] <DDisciple> yeah it is
[19:47] <DDisciple> you both go off the stage, then you can nair
[19:47] <Infin> When were you going to tell us this?
[19:47] <DDisciple> when we did this
[19:47] <Ares> lol
[19:47] <Infin> Hah
[19:47] <DDisciple> and when I do it tourney against more Dedede's
[19:48] <DDisciple> not that many D3's in MN
[19:48] <RT> lol
[19:48] <Infin> Are there any other moves we coulod do out of a grab release?
[19:48] <Infin> could*
[19:48] <DDisciple> uair, rising aura sphere
[19:48] <Infin> All killers....
[19:48] <hichez> can you really use a rising aura shpere?
[19:48] <Ares> FCAS from grab release could kill..
[19:49] <Infin> flamewavekei, do you feel as hopeless from this MU now?
[19:49] <Ares> so then wouldnt that make brinstar an "alright" cp? cuz of close sides
[19:49] <DDisciple> I have experimented with this numerous times.
[19:49] <DDisciple> I was thinking of doing this on brinstar against them
[19:49] <DDisciple> but usually a D3 has a pocket MK
[19:49] <Ares> ah
[19:49] <hichez> lol
[19:50] <DDisciple> and it sucks, cause I wanted to see if we do it against other characters
[19:50] * Infin loves fighting MKs on Brinstar.
[19:50] <hichez> thats the only problem with going brinstar you have to know your opponet
[19:50] <DDisciple> it might have something to do with character's traction
[19:50] <Infin> Hey DDisciple.
[19:50] <Ares> So between BF, Lylat, YI ..which has the closest side blastzones?
[19:50] <Infin> Do you know aside from D3 and Wario...
[19:50] <Infin> What other characters do we have a guarenteed setup with an air release?
[19:50] <flamewavekei> alright
[19:51] <flamewavekei> I'm done losing to ill
[19:51] <flamewavekei> Whats goin on guysssssss
[19:51] <DDisciple> not that kind of air release on D3
[19:51] <DDisciple> but no not really
[19:51] <flamewavekei> its a grpimd release
[19:51] <flamewavekei> *ground
[19:51] <Infin> Ahhhh
[19:51] <Ares> on D3, u pummel at edge til hes released?
[19:51] <Infin> Ok
[19:51] <flamewavekei> that makes him fall really low
[19:51] <flamewavekei> and you fall with him
[19:51] <flamewavekei> squirtle has a version of it too on falco
[19:51] <Infin> Could you DAir?
[19:51] <flamewavekei> from hydrograb
[19:51] <flamewavekei> probably
[19:52] <DDisciple> they are a bit ahead of you for dair to connect
[19:52] <Infin> Ah
[19:52] <flamewavekei> Hey
[19:52] <flamewavekei> you guys
[19:52] <flamewavekei> know what to do
[19:52] <flamewavekei> if you grab DDD out of upB
[19:52] <DDisciple> you know when MK grabs another MK and they fall off the stage?
[19:52] <flamewavekei> when he has no more jumps right?
[19:52] <DDisciple> yeah, you can do that when he does upB
[19:52] <flamewavekei> pummel pummel pummel pummel pummel
[19:52] <flamewavekei> <3
[19:52] <DDisciple> it's literally the perfect opportunity to do it
[19:52] <flamewavekei> free damaaaaaaaage
[19:52] <DDisciple> grab him, then dash grab, fall off the stage with him then nair him
[19:53] <flamewavekei> why
[19:53] <flamewavekei> not just
[19:53] <flamewavekei> keep pummeling
[19:53] <Ares> oo
[19:53] <flamewavekei> its basically an infinate unless you mess up
[19:53] <Ares> i see now
[19:53] <flamewavekei> or they decide to UpB away and kill themselves
[19:53] <flamewavekei> :x
[19:53] <DDisciple> you can do it at any percent, but it's not worth it at low percent
[19:53] <DDisciple> like from fair-nair
[19:53] <DDisciple> fair-nair-dash grab, fall off stage, nair, aura sphere, uair
[19:53] <DDisciple> then grab the edge
[19:54] <Ares> u may need to make a vid of this....lol
[19:54] <hichez> There is a lot that could go wrong
[19:54] <Red_Ryu> sorry anyways
[19:55] <DDisciple> well I have a mm with coney at SiiS4
[19:55] <DDisciple> and I'm probably gonna go for it in our mm
[19:56] <flamewavekei> godamnit guys
[19:56] <flamewavekei> man
[19:56] <flamewavekei> if I wasn't so lazy
[19:56] <flamewavekei> I'd prob upload a replay of me doing it
[19:56] <flamewavekei> but like
[19:56] <flamewavekei> idk why my dazzle is
[19:56] <flamewavekei> <<
[19:56] <flamewavekei> *where
[19:57] <flamewavekei> btw
[19:57] <Infin> Hmmm
[19:57] <flamewavekei> I think it was steam that pointed it out to the board
[19:57] <flamewavekei> too
[19:57] <Infin> How high does D3's Up B go in relation to our footstool?
[19:57] <flamewavekei> if you footstool him as he upBs
[19:57] <flamewavekei> You end up on top of him
[19:57] <flamewavekei> I know because I've done it a million times
[19:58] <flamewavekei> if you wanted too
[19:58] <flamewavekei> you could footstool him again
[19:58] <flamewavekei> but I ussually just wait and get my free hit
[19:58] <Ares> umm...could u footstool him out of the grab release?
[19:58] <flamewavekei> never went from it
[19:58] <flamewavekei> you have to ask D
[19:58] <flamewavekei> I don't play that MU anymore
[19:58] <DDisciple> never went for it
[19:58] <Ares> i would think thatd b a guarentee kill then
[19:58] <hichez> what MU do you play then flame
[19:58] <Ares> if it worked
[19:58] <DDisciple> could do the fair-foot stool though
[19:59] <flamewavekei> Footstool is frame 1 though
[19:59] <flamewavekei> so it probably works
[19:59] <flamewavekei> Zss vs DDD
[19:59] <flamewavekei> or MK vs DDD
[19:59] <flamewavekei> depending on the stage
[19:59] <flamewavekei> because its not stressful as ****
[19:59] <Ares> so the grab release off stage works at all percents?
[19:59] <flamewavekei> pretty much
[19:59] <DDisciple> it's more of, when you're able to move again, once you grab release
[19:59] <Bedfox> Footstool any character during any part of a move animation simply makes you jump ontop of them. I still waiting to see people use this to rescue their partner in doubles or something...
[19:59] <DDisciple> yeah it does
[19:59] <Bedfox> Also going to fix my grammar brb
[20:00] <flamewavekei> and footstooling people out of hitstun makes them fall
[20:00] <flamewavekei> ^.^
[20:00] <flamewavekei> love hobbling
[20:01] <Bedfox> I don't quite recall hearing the term "hobbling" before.
[20:01] <Ares> isnt that an ICs tech?
[20:01] <Ares> lol
[20:01] <flamewavekei> yes
[20:01] <flamewavekei> Throw them
[20:01] <Ares> i love doing that
[20:01] <flamewavekei> footstool
[20:01] <flamewavekei> ice block
[20:01] <flamewavekei> repeat
[20:02] <Ares> u forgot
[20:02] <flamewavekei> you can do this in doubles too with any team
[20:02] <flamewavekei> that has a jab lock
[20:02] <Ares> charge fsmash with nana..grab as it hits then repeat :D
[20:02] <flamewavekei> throw
[20:02] <flamewavekei> have your partner footstool
[20:02] <flamewavekei> and then BAS lock to grab
[20:02] <flamewavekei> is an example
[20:02] <flamewavekei> <3
[20:03] <Infin> Anything else people wanna discuss about this MU?
[20:03] <DDisciple> murder choke to bas lock, to warlock punch
[20:03] <Infin> lol
[20:03] <DDisciple> I had to say it
[20:03] <Ares> Falco has dthrow to footstool at low %
[20:04] <DDisciple> k, you guys seems to have covered just about everything (I hope)
[20:04] <flamewavekei> I sy
[20:04] <flamewavekei> say
[20:04] <flamewavekei> we should idle
[20:04] <flamewavekei> until coney gets on
[20:04] <flamewavekei> =\
[20:04] <flamewavekei> =/
[20:04] <flamewavekei> I realllllly want a DDD's opinion
[20:04] <flamewavekei> I could
[20:04] <DDisciple> he can post in the thread if he wants too
[20:04] <flamewavekei> ask atomsk to come in
[20:04] <flamewavekei> right now
[20:04] <flamewavekei> prob
[20:04] <flamewavekei> if you guys wanted...
[20:04] <hichez> I think this derailed
[20:05] <DDisciple> yeah do that
[20:05] <Ares> hes away on facebook..just sent a message to atomsk
[20:05] <DDisciple> since he plays both character
[20:05] <Ares> how do i link this
[20:05] <Infin> With grab release to NAir...
[20:05] <Ares> to him
[20:06] <Infin> You sure they couldn't do something like Inhale to us?
[20:06] <DDisciple> that has crossed my mind multiple times
[20:06] <DDisciple> so I did the test
[20:06] <DDisciple> nope
[20:07] <Ares> atomsk is comin
[20:07] *** Guest has joined #lucariometa
[20:07] <flamewavekei> k I did my job.
[20:07] *** Guest is now known as Atomsk
[20:07] <Atomsk> umm
[20:07] <Atomsk> cool
[20:07] <flamewavekei> ask questions gogogogo
[20:07] <DDisciple> do your thing flame
[20:08] <flamewavekei> I don't really care about this MU anymore, so I'm going to go make dinner
[20:08] <flamewavekei> brb
[20:08] <DDisciple> what stage would you ban against Lucario?
[20:08] <Atomsk> me?
[20:08] <DDisciple> yeah
[20:08] <Atomsk> I hate SV just because of the platform
[20:08] <Atomsk> but
[20:08] <Atomsk> in terms of counter picks
[20:08] <Atomsk> i'd get rid of like
[20:08] <Atomsk> dumb ones
[20:08] <Atomsk> Japes?
[20:08] <hichez> in many places japes is banned
[20:09] <Atomsk> I dunno really
[20:09] <Atomsk> most lucaarios
[20:09] <Atomsk> don't cp me somewhere gay
[20:09] <Red_Ryu> like where?
[20:09] <RT> How about the unified ruleset stagelist?
[20:09] <Infin> We have to play gay as we can due to that DThrow Upsmash thing
[20:09] <RT> What stage from that list?
[20:09] <Red_Ryu> Pictochat?
[20:09] <Atomsk> nah picto isn't bad
[20:09] <Atomsk> i mean
[20:10] <Atomsk> i guess
[20:10] <Atomsk> Zucco always did good on melee statium
[20:10] <Atomsk> when we fought
[20:10] <Atomsk> that and i can see SV and YI being gay
[20:10] <Atomsk> that's about it
[20:10] <Atomsk> prolly
[20:10] <DDisciple> k, anyone else have questions for Atomsk?
[20:11] <DDisciple> oh, who was harder, Junebug or Zucco?
[20:11] <Atomsk> brb gotta go to the bathroom D:
[20:11] <hichez> lol
[20:11] <Ares> L.
[20:12] <Ares> so flame said he really wanted a DDDs opinion..then said he doesnt care about the MU when atomsk gets here 0.o
[20:12] <Espy> lol
[20:12] <Atomsk> umm
[20:12] <Atomsk> back
[20:12] <DDisciple> he never did to begin with lol
[20:12] <Atomsk> and uhh
[20:13] <Atomsk> when I fought Junebug i did kinda fall for some of the predicatable stuff due to my stupidity
[20:13] <Atomsk> but
[20:13] <Atomsk> zucco never plays consistently
[20:13] <Atomsk> at his best
[20:13] <Atomsk> so i'd say junebug
[20:13] <DDisciple> yeah, I was watching that. He got a lot of grabs on you
[20:13] <DDisciple> then saw you play better against Stauffy, and I was like...uh huh
[20:14] <Atomsk> Well
[20:14] <Atomsk> tbh i don't know many matchups
[20:14] <Atomsk> i just play off of my smarts
[20:14] <Infin> Ah
[20:14] <Infin> Well being aggro vs. Lucario is pretty smart.
[20:14] <Atomsk> not
[20:14] <Atomsk> at
[20:14] <Atomsk> all
[20:15] <hichez> so wou are saying you are useless when talking about MU's
[20:15] <Espy> ^
[20:15] <Atomsk> once i gain the lead i should just be a ******
[20:15] <Atomsk> no not really
[20:15] <Infin> And camp?
[20:15] <RT> lol
[20:15] <Ares> L.
[20:15] <Atomsk> I still understand things
[20:15] <Infin> While we refresh our moves on waddles?
[20:15] <Atomsk> nah
[20:15] <Atomsk> why would
[20:15] <Atomsk> i throw them
[20:15] <Atomsk> lol
[20:15] <Atomsk> Once I gain the lead you have to take risks to get it back
[20:15] <Infin> Prevent spheres from hitting you?
[20:15] <Infin> Ah
[20:15] <Atomsk> there is a L and R button
[20:15] <Atomsk> lol
[20:15] <DDisciple> seeing as we can refresh our moves, if we charge aura sphere when they throw a waddle dee at us
[20:16] <DDisciple> anything guys?
[20:17] <Infin> Atomsk.
[20:17] <Infin> How often do you find yourself powershielding AS?
[20:17] <Atomsk> PowerShielding isn't hard
[20:17] <Atomsk> so i'd assume often
[20:17] <Infin> When do you find yourself getting hit by them? And when do you not often powershield them?
[20:17] <Atomsk> ummm
[20:17] <Atomsk> i don't often PS them if i mess up
[20:17] <Espy> I'd think AS would only be hitting people if they're aerial, or precommitted to an action
[20:18] <Atomsk> CORRECT!
[20:18] <RT> lol
[20:18] <hichez> Atomsk do you most often punish recoveries by lucario?
[20:19] <Atomsk> umm...if you've watched videos of me I believe I do lol
[20:19] <Atomsk> i tend to play much more on stage
[20:19] <Atomsk> then i used to
[20:19] <Atomsk> early on in brawl
[20:19] <DDisciple> annoying thing, he jumps, land then utilt
[20:20] <DDisciple> cause everyone rolls
[20:20] <Atomsk> Teehee
[20:20] <Atomsk> Also
[20:20] <Atomsk> all you guys
[20:20] <Atomsk> for some reason
[20:20] <Atomsk> always ledge jump
[20:20] <Atomsk> at high %
[20:20] <Atomsk> lol why are you guys doing that?
[20:20] <hichez> idk who does that?
[20:20] <DDisciple> for some reason it's somewhat safe
[20:20] <Ares> dont wanna get read and grabbed
[20:20] <Atomsk> ...so
[20:20] <Ares> so they dont get dthrow to upsmash
[20:20] <Atomsk> you guys like gettting utilted
[20:20] <Atomsk> and dying
[20:21] <RT> It's like D3's utilt is good or something.
[20:21] <Atomsk> Nooo never
[20:21] <Red_Ryu> >:E
[20:21] <Atomsk>
[20:21] <RT> Lol
[20:21] <RT> Mini Snake utilt.
[20:21] <RT> Minus the range.
[20:21] <RT> In fact, I'm saddened that it DOESN't have the same range.
[20:21] <Infin> + some invincibility frames :x
[20:21] <hichez> I roll or wait to ledge attack
[20:21] <hichez> then its not a snake utilt
[20:22] <hichez>
[20:22] <Atomsk> anymore questions?
[20:23] <Ares> u coming to ultimate no koast?
[20:23] <hichez> if a lucario CP u to brinstar would you go MK?
[20:23] <Atomsk> umm
[20:23] <Atomsk> no to no koast
[20:23] <Atomsk> and i'm not sure
[20:23] <Atomsk> i might go wario
[20:23] <DDisciple> I'll probably see you at WGF
[20:23] <Atomsk> Oh word?
[20:23] <Atomsk> YOU GOIN?
[20:23] <Atomsk> WE BETTER GO CLUBBING WITH LADYDUDEK
[20:24] <RT> Whobo 3?
[20:24] <Atomsk> yea i should be
[20:24] <DDisciple> gonna try
[20:24] <RT> Tasty.
[20:24] <Atomsk> i'm moving out soon so money might be a little harder for me
[20:24] <DDisciple> I need to buy a car though
[20:24] <DDisciple> same
[20:24] <DDisciple> it might make going to SiiS4 really hard
[20:24] <Atomsk> moving in with Izumi, Allied, and Vex
[20:24] <Atomsk> in Philly
[20:24] <DDisciple> oh yeah, good ****
[20:24] <Atomsk> time to finally be number 1 in a state D:
[20:24] <DDisciple> k, we done guys?
[20:25] <Infin> Think so
[20:25] <Atomsk> OH I'LL GIVE YOU GUYS ADVICE
[20:25] <Atomsk> pick up a secondary
[20:25] <Infin> Thank ya for coming, Atomsk.
[20:25] <Infin> >.>
[20:25] <Bedfox> I HAVE A QUESTION
[20:25] <DDisciple> aight, good **** guys. Next week we do MK
[20:25] <Ares> L.
[20:25] <hichez> almost who are we discussing next week?
[20:25] <Atomsk> your character isn't that muhc of a gimcick anymore
[20:25] *** Bedfox is now known as Cloudfox
[20:25] <Atomsk> and at top level
[20:25] <Atomsk> your character won't win sadly
[20:25] <Atomsk> UNLESS its vs Midwest
[20:25] <hichez> atomsk is talking ****
[20:25] <Cloudfox> What's the best thing to do against D3 at the ledge when you're at high percent?
[20:25] <DDisciple> >.>
[20:26] <RT> trollolololololol
[20:26] <Ares> ><
[20:26] <Cloudfox> And lol.
[20:26] <Red_Ryu> >_<
[20:26] <Atomsk> ummm
[20:26] <Infin> Against M2K?
[20:26] <Infin> lol
[20:26] <Atomsk> i dunno
[20:26] <Cloudfox>
[20:26] <Atomsk> being at the ledge vs me or coney
[20:26] <DDisciple> we get beaten by Toon Link on the west side, and wolf anything is possible
[20:26] <Atomsk> is a guessing game
[20:26] <Atomsk> and yea
[20:26] <Atomsk> wtf
[20:26] <Atomsk> at kain
[20:26] <Atomsk> winning?
[20:26] <Atomsk> Learn 2 ddd
[20:26] <DDisciple> I wasn't there
[20:26] <DDisciple> lol
[20:26] <DDisciple> or Pikachu
[20:26] <Atomsk> nah
[20:26] <Atomsk> ddd is worse
[20:26] <Cloudfox> Yeah, when I read what you just said about not jumping I was like "Mm, I guess you should always-..........wait."
[20:26] <Ares> TL is broken
[20:26] <Atomsk> ddd and shiek are worse
[20:27] <Atomsk> TL SUCKS
[20:27] <RT> I'll be in TLK someday...
[20:27] <Cloudfox> :X
[20:27] <Ares> so broken
[20:27] <Atomsk> TL isn't bad
[20:27] <Atomsk> he just loses to DDD imo
[20:27] <DDisciple> MJG is pissed about that lol
[20:27] <Atomsk> lol
[20:27] <Cloudfox> I wanna play Jash again.
[20:27] <Atomsk> ***** should be glad
[20:27] <Atomsk> i came to midwest
[20:27] <DDisciple> you made him pick up MK
[20:27] <Atomsk> XD
[20:27] <Ares> LOL
[20:27] <Cloudfox> XD
[20:27] <Ares> playin with him tomorrow
[20:27] <Atomsk> it's fine I have like 30 other characters
[20:27] <Atomsk> lol
[20:28] <Atomsk> by that i mean really 4
[20:28] <Ares> play falco more
[20:28] <RT> Dude, no Ganon is a good CP character against...
[20:28] <Ares> imo
[20:28] <RT> Uh...
[20:28] <Atomsk> why
[20:28] <Atomsk> my falco isn't at wasn't that good
[20:28] <Ares> fun to watch
[20:28] <Atomsk> my region just doesn't have experiance against a good one yet
[20:28] <DDisciple> who's got the log for this?
[20:29] <Atomsk> and wyatt didn't know how to handle falco that new what to do vs diddy yet
[20:29] <Atomsk> since larry sucks vs diddy
[20:29] <Atomsk> isn't and wasn't*
[20:29] <Atomsk> that knew*
[20:29] <Ares> lol
[20:30] <DDisciple> Red, do you have it?
[20:30] <Ares> TL > ICs
[20:30] <Ares> or mj > ics
[20:30] <Red_Ryu> hmm
[20:30] <Red_Ryu> sorry
[20:30] <Atomsk> IMA GO ICS VS MJG NEXT TIME
[20:30] <Infin> Later guys
[20:30] <DDisciple> who was in here the longest?
[20:30] <Ares> ^^
[20:30] <Atomsk> i'll lose D: but it'd be cool
[20:30] <Red_Ryu> what were yoiu asking D?
[20:30] <Ares> i want to see that
[20:30] <Ares> lol
[20:30] *** Infin has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
[20:30] <DDisciple> the chat log
[20:30] <Red_Ryu> oh this one
[20:30] <DDisciple> for this discussion
[20:30] <Red_Ryu> yeah I can get it
[20:30] <DDisciple> kk
[20:30] <Atomsk> aight peace guys
[20:31] <Ares> later
[20:31] <Atomsk> GO see Tron if you haven't
[20:31] <DDisciple> atomsk
[20:31] <Espy> Atromsk
[20:31] <Espy> Atomsk*
[20:31] <Atomsk> ****ing amazing
[20:31] <DDisciple> add me on skype
[20:31] <Espy> Wait, I have a question.
[20:31] <Atomsk> okay i will
[20:31] <Atomsk> and what espy?
[20:31] <DDisciple> DeShane Strong
[20:31] <Atomsk> DD whats your sn?
[20:31] <Espy> Two tournaments, at LEAST
[20:31] <Espy> and we still haven't played
[20:31] <Espy> why?
[20:31] <DDisciple> d.disciple
[20:31] <hichez> no one wants to play a sonic
[20:31] <Atomsk> I have no clue actually
[20:31] <Atomsk> I WOULD HAVE FOUGHT YOU AT MLG
[20:31] <Ares> ^
[20:31] <Atomsk> if i didn't choke
[20:31] <Atomsk> D:
[20:31] <Espy> ;-;
[20:32] <Espy> Wait, in place of Ally?
[20:32] <Espy> or Tyrant?
[20:32] <DDisciple> and prevented two sonics, making around 1k each?
[20:32] <Ares> play more consistently!!
[20:32] <Atomsk> wait
[20:32] <Atomsk> if i beat
[20:32] <Ares> thats what u tell me
[20:32] <Atomsk> esam
[20:32] <Atomsk> i would have fought you
[20:32] <Espy> OOOOOH
[20:32] <Espy> Damn.
[20:32] <Espy> That would've been awesome.
[20:32] <Atomsk> yea D:
[20:32] <Atomsk> prolly
[20:32] <Espy> I MIGHT be going to Pound V
[20:33] <Espy> but iunno
[20:33] <Atomsk> oh word?
[20:33] <Espy> Yeah.
[20:33] <Espy> Figure I'd go up there and get my arse handed to me.
[20:33] <Atomsk> i'm going to whobo to **** FWK so we can play there
[20:33] <Atomsk> jk
[20:33] <Atomsk> but i am going
[20:33] <Espy> EC prolly knows the Sonic match up best.
[20:33] <Cloudfox> XD
[20:33] <Atomsk> I mean
[20:33] <Atomsk> we just know
[20:33] <DDisciple> lmao @ your SN
[20:33] <Atomsk> to just stare at sonic
[20:33] <Atomsk> and not do anything
[20:33] <Atomsk> lol
[20:33] <Cloudfox> ^
[20:33] <Espy> Yeah.
[20:33] <DDisciple> that's the match up for every character against Sonic
[20:33] <Espy> You guys have a lot of Sonics too, so that helps.
[20:34] <Cloudfox> *had* a lot of Sonics...
[20:34] <DDisciple> sonic is spinning in place, Im' just standing there
[20:34] <Atomsk> we have
[20:34] <Espy> Well, you gotta create space, Disciple.
[20:34] <Atomsk> jsut Kai now
[20:34] <Atomsk> and
[20:34] <Atomsk> wedge i guess
[20:34] <Atomsk> but
[20:34] <DDisciple> speed?
[20:34] <Atomsk> the life of a potmonster in nj
[20:34] <Atomsk> is hard
[20:34] <RT> Whobo, yes.
[20:34] <Espy> Because you just can't react to Sonic at close range. Can't rely on it, I mean.
[20:34] <Atomsk> speed isn't in NJ
[20:34] <Atomsk> I CAN GRAB SONIC OUT OF SPIN DASH DAWG
[20:34] <Espy> But you dedede
[20:34] <Espy> :<
[20:35] <Atomsk> teehee
[20:35] <Espy> WHOBO3 is gonna be fun, though.
[20:35] <Atomsk> ya
[20:35] <Cloudfox> XP Hopefully I can afford more stuff next month. So being a potmonster won't be hard. I could use more training against our region offline again first, though. Was hoping somebody'd have a Smashfest for Orion, arg. :/
[20:35] <DDisciple> I need to pre-reg for Whobo and Pound V
[20:35] <Atomsk> same
[20:35] <Atomsk> and i'm out guys
[20:35] <Atomsk> see ya
[20:35] <Espy> Cya Atomsk
[20:35] <Cloudfox> See ya
[20:35] <Ares> late
[20:36] <Atomsk> *does the Nixon*
[20:36] <DDisciple> Red, post the chat log in the thread
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[20:36] <Cloudfox> Haha.
[20:36] <Espy> What was the conclusion of the discussion, btw?
[20:36] <Espy> I was afk halfway into it.
[20:36] <Cloudfox> Me asking a question there wasn't any good answer for?
[20:36] <DDisciple> ****, you guys didn't do the ratio?
[20:37] <Red_Ryu> 4:6 imo
[20:37] <Cloudfox> Matchup ratio? I contend those are kind of dumb.
[20:37] <Espy> I was a bystander, I had no obligation to do that.
[20:37] <Ares> what was the ratio before?
[20:37] <flamewavekei> 7:3
[20:37] <DDisciple> hey, is steam in here?
[20:37] <Cloudfox> All you need to have is- lol Flame
[20:37] <hichez> espy just curious why are you here?
[20:37] <RT> He's a spy for the red team.
[20:37] <Espy> Because I chose to be here.
[20:37] <Ares> 6:4 seems good
[20:37] <Cloudfox> is the general idea whether it's bad or good.
[20:37] <Espy> RT
[20:37] <Espy> You can say
[20:37] <DDisciple> guys is steam in this chat?
[20:37] <Espy> that I'm an E-spy
[20:37] <RT> ....
[20:38] <Espy> omg
[20:38] <hichez> lol
[20:38] <hichez> 6:4
[20:38] <flamewavekei> regardless of the number
[20:38] <RT> *gets knife out and stabs face*
[20:38] <DDisciple> I'm taking that as a no
[20:38] <flamewavekei> its still one of our hardest MUs
[20:38] <Espy> No wonder pandas are endangered.
[20:38] <Espy> They're all killing themselves.
[20:38] <RT> Facestabs are ***.
[20:39] <Espy> RT, I have a question.
[20:39] <RT> ?
[20:39] <Espy> Why does Xyro always snatch event days away from everyone else?
[20:39] <RT> It's Xyro.
[20:39] <Espy> Like, Nike was gonna host in December
[20:39] <RT> He does what he wants.
[20:39] <Espy> and then I want to go to that Amarillo tournament, and now SA wants HOBO because Xyro put it on the same day.
[20:40] <Espy> I'm like blaaaaaaaaaaargh
[20:40] <Espy> best part is that we're probably going to neither.
[20:40] <RT> He barely listens to me.
[20:40] <hichez> im out
[20:41] <RT> But Feb is pretty free.
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[20:41] <Red_Ryu> ok I'll work on getting this logged
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