Since there were members not in the Lucario backroom that helped out I'm gonna post it out here as well since I feel like it is far for them to see the fruits of their labor.
Ok I talked on Skype with the Lucario's with surprise guest Vinnie who helped with Lucario vs G&W.
I'll go in order.
Lucario vs Jigglypuff.
She has zoning simular to Wario, however she lacks the fallspeed and livability he has which are very key in this match-up. Lucario can some moves that can trade with some of her aerials, Bair for example. She has a killing issue, a very large one. She dies the earliest of any character in the game, by the time she can kill Lucario's moveset is a kill move on her, not joking most of his move-set will kill up upfront. On the flip side her only reliable kill movets are Fair, Fsmash, and a gimp, most reliable being fair. Her grab game is fine, and shouldn't be overlooked. She doesn't make to commit to anything but the main issue is that even while she isn't commiting, she still has to be careful, mistakes will equal damage and the higher Lucario gets the easier it will be for him to kill her.
To give the benefit of the doubt, +2 seems to be the ratio given. She is underdeveloped, and experience against her is quite limited Maybe int he future we will be proven wrong, so a +3 is not called for, however until someone can prove it +2 is the only ratio that can be used at this time.
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Lucario vs Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong has better kill power, people have acknowledged this, he also has better spacing, there are problems with this however. First off, his kill power is better when he lands it on a read, and the reads need to be pretty strong ones. He best Kill move to land is Dsmash, but that comes out on frame 10 and lasts quite a while with end lag, might have IASA frames not sure, Every kill move outside of Donkey Punch is punishable. His spacing is good until people look at how he spaces, Donkey Kong sppacing with hurtboxes, which Lucario can take advantage of. Pivot grabs can also shut down spaced Ftilt because of how he goes for the Ftilt, Lucario can grab the arm based ont he information given during the chat. Aura Sphere becomes MVP at high %, it beats out all of his spacing tools and kills. Lucario can juggle and shield poke really well in the MU, DK's shield isn't very good and things like dair can poke with other shield pressure, juggles are a results of his moveset in the air, in front of him he lacks options to fight off Lucario speed wise.
Both character can harass the other when recovering, Donkey Kong's bair will semi Wall of Pain Lucario is he is not careful and put him out farther. on the flip side, Lucario's Uair and Dair will beat out his UpB.
We are saying a 0, like I said before both characters have silly things on each other, but it's even when played out.
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Lucario vs G&W.
Vinnie helped out with this info in the chat we had tonight. The match-up seems a lot about baiting each other to do certain actions and punishing it. Shutter step Fsmash beats out G&W's aerial approaches. However if he goes grounded or above Lucario he can to punish it, not sure about grounded completely. G&W can juggle Lucario pretty well, dair is not a universal answer in this match-up, G&W can wait to bait and punish it from the sides or just outright beat it with UpB if he times it right. G&W can tech chase Lucario on many fronts, such as Dthrow, teching landings, etc.
Lucario's Aura Sphere is good when Mr. G&W isn't off stage, offstage may seem like a good idea but really G&W has nothing to fear because Lucario can't follow up on it outside of maybe a fair. On stage is a different story, it's a good punishment tool that can bypass many of his moves, even if G&W buckets it, because of the after lag it can mean a free hit from Lucario afterwards. Lucario is looking to get hits in by staying on the ground more than going into the air.
They both can kill each other pretty well, Mr. G&W is better in the air, Lucario is better on the ground. A lot of it seems about baits and reads.
Going with a 0.
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Lucario vs MK
Lucario can handle Dair camping, he can handle tornado easily, he can kill slightly better, he can outspace MK in many areas but this doesn't matter when looking everything else. Lucario is much slower on the ground, because of this Ftilt wrecks him if he get into shield, while Lucario can Fsmash and Aura sphere to beat this, they come out too slow at times, compared to MK's Ftilt which comes out pretty fast. Case in point it is almost always easier for MK to space than it is for Lucario to space MK.
The stage list gets him locked into a pick your poison situation, do you want to go to Delfino, Brinstar, or Rainbow Cruise. Based on the discussion Brinstar seemed to be the stage to ban, the others while not as bad still put Lucario into situations very unfavorable, On Fd or Pictochat this match-up is a lot better, but not many areas have picto and FD is almost always, as is should by MK, banned on Lucario.
Gimping and off stage is another issue, With smart DI and staying high, it is very likely Lucario can recover, but he is still in a bad position, MK may have bad air mobility, but Shuttle loop from below still can nail Lucario trying to go over him, put this is conjunction with the problems with landing, even with B reversals on aura sphere and stalling with dair, it a problem.
-2.
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People left when we started to talk about Marth, which still has mixed feelings. Mario no one feels like they know the MU well enough still most people seem to be leaning in Lucario having the advantage, +1 at most. We didn't get to Ness yet.
If Marc can wait till the weekend I can work on those ones with a chat.
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There ya go guys I'll try and set-up the other ones later.
its just too easy for us to get timed out there.
