Lucario Metagame Discussion

[DrSoussou]

FP chains are very risky against DDD, you're more likely to get chaingrabbed. Besides, he can get out of them after two or three. When Lucario is at high percents though, it can do a lot of damage.

Lucario is NOT heavy. At best he is a middleweight.

 

[Browny]

-_-

Actually, at best AND worst he is exactly equal 15th/39th in weight of all the characters.

He is above middleweight.

 

[Pivot]

Of course Luc can't chaingrab more than twice against anyone with a brain. That's why I FP once then go into a regular grab and maybe D-throw for combo's or B-throw/F-throw for ledge hogging.

Also, I don't think DDD can chaingrab out of your FP.

I consider anything above Middleweight heavyweight, but I guess if you wanted to get technical you could say Mid/Heavyweight.

 

[hichez50]

Yeah fp to a down/up throw is so powerful. It pretty much puts DDD into an awful situation where is options are limited and lets you get free percent. Also the horizontal range of our fp is a lot better than our regular grab that it makes it a tad better.

While talking about fp does any know any situations where a <8 fp is reliable. The only one I know of is against falco's jab.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Any jab reset people try to do, when you fair people on shield it is a mix-up.

 

[DrSoussou]

http://www.twitch.tv/chibosempai
"The Anubis" combo goin HAM with M2K&Trela
#Lucario

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Would if I wasn't busy.

 

[D. Disciple]

This needs to be revived

 

[Karnu]

I agree .

 

[elrelster]

Then we should start talking, shouldn't we?

 

[elrelster]

So, I didn't want to double post, but I wanna check up on this (and revive this thread at the same time). Does the A A Force Palm combo work on every character? Or does it work only if I do the jab cancel? Or does it straight up not work on all character?

 

[Linkshot]

It doesn't work, I'm pretty sure. Jab -> Force Palm sometimes catches people offguard but guaranteed? I don't think so.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Jab Jab -> FP probably will never be a combo. However, due to RCO lag on some characters Jab -> FP can be a situational combo.

Think jabbing Falco after he uses Phantasm if he did not activate RCO landing lag.

 

[elrelster]

What are the usual approach options when trying to get back on the ground safely? As in, how do you guys mix up your landing? I try to vary it up with a dair here or there and an airdodge, but I find it very hard to not get juggled by Marth or MK when falling. Especially off the ledge. I only got so many things I can do about the reverse shuttle loop. Also, how do you mix up your recovery approach with the Up-B? I don't know how important it is, but I know you can aim to the tip of the ledge if someone is edgehogging, and it will do some glitchy stuff. Then you end up falling, but with your Up-B active again. I can see how this is great, but is it worth practicing to get down? Is it a vital skill that top Lucarios use?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Reverse Aura Sphere Charge to air dodge to BAir can work wonders if you're good at spacing.

Landing frequently with DAir or Air Dodge is just asking to get landing frame trapped by something.

Aura Sphere charge to shield or firing it can screw with people and the only good method we really have to avoid landing lag...

Gotta really just read the situation though, do not be so willing to put yourself at risk when you don't need to though.

 

[elrelster]

Yeah, I can see how reverse aura charge could work well. As for recovering, is it generally a better idea to recover above or below the stage? I sometimes wonder about this as his MK flaps out towards me off the ledge. Or Marth, for that matter.

 

[yessi]

I think that recovering from below the stage is better because when I come from above, I usually get juggled. I only recover from above to mix things up, but besides that I go for below. I might be wrong but that's from my own personal experience.

 

[Masonomace]

Sorry for being far too late to help, but what's the skype/ IRC group? I'm down to join both and discuss meta. (Very Late LOL)

Jab > follow-up with anything is pretty good from the IASA frames

Jab > Jab >anything is pushing it since opponent DI / SDI behind us can disrupt our generic FP after jab2. DI/SDI upward or diagonally forward punishes us with their aerials depending on what their fastest punish is.

Jab > Jab > FP works well on RCO lagged opponents good stuff MTI. Noting that heavier gravity characters like the spacies and CF works even better with RCO lag bonus.

Landing Mix-ups involve things like us using D-air stalling and B-reversing AS away as late as we can can help with a quick roll after landing BR AS, or just WBASC / WBFP away for space distance and fire AS to be really safe like MTI said, what does anyone think about a timed AD with N-air input on landing with some FF if we have remaining air to cover landing? If we're above stage level but too afraid to land (snake stage control) we can ES bend towards the stage ledge to plank a bit and Wall-jump option to try to stall for generic grenade camping, DT'ing his nades and try to reverse or leave it regular slide to avoid damage. This is a lot of risk but it's something to think about with anyone's projectile camping our landings.

For recovering, it's dependable on solely the opponent character's aerial game to decide how we mix-up to recover back for stage control. MK you do not want to be anywhere off-stage regardless without a FCAS or defensive walling B-air. Do some D-air stalling if it looks good stage location-wise and prepare to read his movement to the max. Marth gimps off-stage usually occur as we're almost mid-way at edge level since they'll DJ aerial to wall us off for Dolphin slash ledge grabbing. I can honestly see RDT working here because marth aerials are pretty easy to read when they approach us, or good spaced B-air can stop his aerial attempts.

Recovering from below the stage can be good since we can use lips for cling / wall-jumping if we need and ES can bend at best hemispherical if right below the stage. Lucario being floaty does make him juggled often so I completely agree with this for being against characters with awesome aerial game.