~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~

[Pentaoku]

According to Milln, fair outprioritizes it too.

Obviously because blue fire is hotter than red fire.

 

[Trela]

Looks like Fox is about to be finished in a couple of days =P

I've been lookin at some Fox Combo Vids, and they mainly use their Dair-Reflector-Usmash Combo a lot. I'd say his Reflector is a fundamental move(NAH, really!?).
Of course, this is my opinion.

 

[Kitamerby]

Perhaps Luigi's Mansion as well. People keep saying that its a Lucario stage (I still dont see how). There are ceilings that help protect against the Usmash and the pillars themselves act as shields for projectiles.

Luigi's Mansion is a great stage against Fox, so long as you avoid his deadly Dsmash on hat level.

It shuts down most of Fox's aerial game, and it takes away his most potent killer: The Usmash.

The reason why Lucario loves Luigi's Mansion is because if we can tech well, (and even if we can't), we'll live to obscene % against people who rely on vertical or diagonal knockback killers.

 

[Samuelson]

Fox relies on his Dair a lot so as long as you shield the whole time he does the Dair>Shine or Dair>Utilt combo and then grab OOS he's done for. Use your Ftilt and Utilt a lot and save Fsmash for kills. If he runs at you he is most likely going to try and Usmash you so beware of that. I just played some Fox matches today and you for sure want him in the air, Uthrow is good in this match up. I ended up getting a lot of gimp kills by simply Fairing him off the stage.

 

[Timbers]

Fox's reflector is bad. His shine got dumbed down a lot in Brawl. Just don't do something stupid and try ES right next to him, or you're gonna get shinespiked.

Getting Fox in the air should be your priority, but he's a very fast faller and not all that big. Shinestalling allows him to bait any type of juggle you attempt, and then punish with dair or something.

I mine as well say it. Bring Fox to Battlefield. Poor feller can't do much to you here.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

This is going to be a sloooooooow rotation.

Those meanies in the Fox forums won't help us so we have to do it all by ourselves! =0 (Oh noes!)

For Fundamental Moves, I'm thinking U-smash, Reflector?, F-air?, Lazorz?.

Speaking of lazorz, why aren't we speaking of lazorz? How do Foxs incorporate lasers into their game? Are they as big of a threat as they were in Melee? And speaking of Melee changes, since l-canceling is gone, and d-air doesn't auto-cancel, how is it that d-air>??? is even a threat?

How to win: Get him in the air. Got it.

Recommended Stages: Luigis Mansion. BattleField. Any stages you should avoid?

Behavior: I think I got enough.

I suppose there's really no rush, but I'd like to get to Pikachu soon, since I've seen a couple people asking for Pika help in the past week.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

This is going to be a sloooooooow rotation.

Those meanies in the Fox forums won't help us so we have to do it all by ourselves! =0 (Oh noes!)

For Fundamental Moves, I'm thinking U-smash, Reflector?, F-air?, Lazorz?.

Speaking of lazorz, why aren't we speaking of lazorz? How do Foxs incorporate lasers into their game? Are they as big of a threat as they were in Melee? And speaking of Melee changes, since l-canceling is gone, and d-air doesn't auto-cancel, how is it that d-air>??? is even a threat?

How to win: Get him in the air. Got it.

Recommended Stages: Luigis Mansion. BattleField. Any stages you should avoid?

Behavior: I think I got enough.

I suppose there's really no rush, but I'd like to get to Pikachu soon, since I've seen a couple people asking for Pika help in the past week.

the lazorz are meh, by far the worst lazorz of the space animals. The range cut down sucks and don't pose much of a threat to lucario since we'll probably thank him for ~10% at the start of the match. They'll usually just use it when they want us to approach and are too lazy to try it. So, if your on FD and you can, just back up, make him approach a bit more and then when he starts his spam, approach. He'll stop his lasers and then you can out prioritize most everything with fair, but watch out for that usmash, an aerial approach is just asking for it.

dont fight him on FD and Smashville (), just lets him spam blaster and his reflector>your AS so it's not worth being flat if you can't use the move you love the most anyway.

This matchup isn't really anything special, a not-so-hard-hitting fastfaller vs a combo-er, go figure who has the advantage

 

[dj_pwn1423]

Maybe you should add corneria to the stages you should avoid. There is some chance of getting infinited by his shine. And I don't remember if the ceiling is shorter than average but if so he'll probably have an easy time KOing lucario with Usmash.

Frigate Orpheon is always good vs spacies :3

 

[Timbers]

This is going to be a sloooooooow rotation.

Those meanies in the Fox forums won't help us so we have to do it all by ourselves! =0 (Oh noes!)

For Fundamental Moves, I'm thinking U-smash, Reflector?, F-air?, Lazorz?.

Speaking of lazorz, why aren't we speaking of lazorz? How do Foxs incorporate lasers into their game? Are they as big of a threat as they were in Melee? And speaking of I hear the utilt is true as well, but Melee changes, since l-canceling is gone, and d-air doesn't auto-cancel, how is it that d-air>??? is even a threat?

How to win: Get him in the air. Got it.

Recommended Stages: Luigis Mansion. BattleField. Any stages you should avoid?

Behavior: I think I got enough.

I suppose there's really no rush, but I'd like to get to Pikachu soon, since I've seen a couple people asking for Pika help in the past week.

Fundamental moves: Utilt, nair, fair, dair

Lazorz: Bad. Fox has to pressure. If he's pressuring, no hitstun lazorz isn't going to help his game any.

Dair: Still works well. Dair to jab and grab are true combos.
I hear utilt is true as well. I know I've shielded it before. It's possible the Fox's timing was off or something. If the dair trips them, then dsmash and usmash are true as well.

How to win: **** his approaches with ftilt. If he double jumps, follow him and intercept him with fair. I personally wouldn't stay right underneath him. The dair is very fast and very good.

Recommended stages:

Mansion: Duh.

Battlefield: Just don't get hit by any fair combos and you're going to be fine. Platforms let you spread your aura love (aerials) all over the place. Lower platforms protect you from any above approaches, forcing him straight at you. In other words, your ftilt is going to love him.

 

[culexus・wau]

@#!$&$!$@$%&%$#$%#%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**** Foxes have a Jab lock........ <.<
*credit to my friend LetterBomb and his friend.... for discovering Footstool & Jab lock respectively .-. *
that Nair lock looks NAAAASSSTYYYY D: :embarrass and that footstool..... D:

just found today....

BTW: I got mah friend Letterbomb to aid us, he uses the 2 melee Space vets ^_^ YAYZORS!!!!!!!!!

PS: irrelevant but is my sig visable? just cause I can see it dun mean you guys can Y.Y

@LB:YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8D

 

[§witch]

Letterbomb=Switch son, get it right. That guy's not my bro flame...He discovered the jab lock I got the footstool combo. Anyways, I need to play flame more with fox to get a better feel for what I'm saying, but luc has the advantage in my eyes. Floaty-ness cancels alot of hits with the utilt, dthrow fair won't work as well either. Fox's reflector is his most useful and versatile move shine stalling mindgames, now here comes fox's MAJOR advantage in this match-up. The shine spike. Luc's lack of attack with his Up B makes for an easy edge hog after the shine spike. Still, luc beats him in the air. 60-40 in favour of luc, hope this helped.
~§witch
YES FLAME WE SEE YOUR AWESOME SIG!

 

[§witch]

This is going to be a sloooooooow rotation.

Those meanies in the Fox forums won't help us so we have to do it all by ourselves! =0 (Oh noes!)

For Fundamental Moves, I'm thinking U-smash, Reflector?, F-air?, Lazorz?.

Speaking of lazorz, why aren't we speaking of lazorz? How do Foxs incorporate lasers into their game? Are they as big of a threat as they were in Melee? And speaking of Melee changes, since l-canceling is gone, and d-air doesn't auto-cancel, how is it that d-air>??? is even a threat?
Since his lasers don't make the opponent flinch, they are a damage builder, and that is all. A smart fox will SHDL so the slow gun animation is cancelled. NONE of fox's aerials have landing lag. And I lol'ed when you said dair isn't a threat, it's fox best comboer and approach, it leads to so much.

How to win: Get him in the air. Got it.
I wouldn't say that's true, shine stall mindgames could be the death of you.

Recommended Stages: Luigis Mansion. BattleField. Any stages you should avoid?
Hmm...I use BF with fox alot...and luigi's mansion can screw over much as much as fox with the pillars and all. Anywhere with a low ceiling is what you want to avoid.

Behavior: I think I got enough.

I suppose there's really no rush, but I'd like to get to Pikachu soon, since I've seen a couple people asking for Pika help in the past week.

Sorry for the double post but I'd like to point out a few things, my comments will be in red.

 

[Kitamerby]

Oh, and rewrite the little saying for the "bad matchup" blurb thing.

Lucario doesn't really need a counterpick in any of his matchups, and ESPECIALLY not Marth. =\

 

[betterthanbonds9]

can't all the space animals be combo'd off the stage with something on the lines of fthrow>fair>fair>jumpfair>dair>ES back to the stage? I know it ***** wolf, and im about 80% sure on falco, but nobody i know plays fox and I'm the only person i know that plays lucario so testing it is pretty impossible...

 

[Trela]

can't all the space animals be combo'd off the stage with something on the lines of fthrow>fair>fair>jumpfair>dair>ES back to the stage? I know it ***** wolf, and im about 80% sure on falco, but nobody i know plays fox and I'm the only person i know that plays lucario so testing it is pretty impossible...

Hmm... It looks like this Fox match-up is harder than I thought it would be =/

Well, I almost did something like that in my Combo Vid, but..
1. Didn't do it right. It was an Utilt-Fair-jumpFair-Dair-AS combo.
2. Fox was stupid; didn't bother to airdodge at all.
3. .....NO AIRDODGE!

I can help on the Pikachu stuff a little; I got a sis that mains it :D

 

[Timbers]

Sorry for the double post but I'd like to point out a few things, my comments will be in red.

Alright. Jump in the air and do an aerial. Have it end prematurely due to landing on the ground. Compare it to simply jumping and not doing an aerial. Congratulations, you've discovered landing lag. It's very small, but it's definitely there.

In a game where airdodges are abundant, shinestalling is less amusing. Hes a fast faller, and somewhat small. That's what makes him hard to keep in the air. Shinestalling isn't a huge deal.

You must be crazy to pick BF against aerial dominant characters. o_0 BF ceiling may be slightly lower, but it's certainly worth it given the advantage that Lucario has on BF against characters with inferior airgames and/or disjointed hitboxes.

can't all the space animals be combo'd off the stage with something on the lines of fthrow>fair>fair>jumpfair>dair>ES back to the stage? I know it ***** wolf, and im about 80% sure on falco, but nobody i know plays fox and I'm the only person i know that plays lucario so testing it is pretty impossible...

Fox no. He's really fastfalling to combo with our fairs, and there's a very small window where we can get them to connect, as he's a light character. You really shouldn't bother being too agressive in this match. Just chill in the air and pelt him with ftilts.

 

[§witch]

As of now, I'm testing my footstool combo on lucario. It's hard ****, but once mastered easy to pull off in a match, and a 0-death...
Shine stall is an anti-juggle, shine stall>dair>ANY ONE OF FOX'S MOVES
See, where I'm going with this? Fox gets you up on a platform there and you're in trouble, it's like a free 30% from his fair. Plus fox is pretty good in the air, considering the small amount of time he spends up there. His nair has mad priority, and if you FF it, you're probably at the ground anyways.

EDIT: Good news for you guys. Ftilt lock won't work on lucario, he's too short while lying down, but nair still works.

 

[Timbers]

Like a third of the cast has a footstool to jablock combo. Trying to implement it into your game is hard ****. I've never even heard of it being pulled off in a match setting.

I already stated that staying underneath Fox while chasing him is a not a good idea. Intercept him with fair into whatever. Shinestalling isn't a big thing to worry about.

Dair won't combo into dtilt, ftilt, utilt (correct me if I'm wrong on that), usmash, fsmash, dsmash, shine, any aerial. With the trip, It'll combo into like anything except fsmash. WITH THE TRIP. I don't know chance of getting the trip with Fox's dair, but even at 100% I don't see it working over 40% of the time.

Fox has a good air game, but come on. Look at Lucario's own air game and tell me who's you think is better. Even Fox's fair, can be DI'd out and hit by Luc's own fair. Yeah ok it does ~23% when all hits connect. We have several aerial true combos that do that/more (depending on our own percentage), so we're sorry if it doesn't come off as an extremely terrifying move in the matchup. When Luc's fair outprioritizes Fox's nair, then it having "mad priority" is definitely not a concern to us.

 

[M@v]

This is going to be a sloooooooow rotation.

Those meanies in the Fox forums won't help us so we have to do it all by ourselves! =0 (Oh noes!)

For Fundamental Moves, I'm thinking U-smash, Reflector?, F-air?, Lazorz?.

Speaking of lazorz, why aren't we speaking of lazorz? How do Foxs incorporate lasers into their game? Are they as big of a threat as they were in Melee? And speaking of Melee changes, since l-canceling is gone, and d-air doesn't auto-cancel, how is it that d-air>??? is even a threat?

How to win: Get him in the air. Got it.

Recommended Stages: Luigis Mansion. BattleField. Any stages you should avoid?

Behavior: I think I got enough.

I suppose there's really no rush, but I'd like to get to Pikachu soon, since I've seen a couple people asking for Pika help in the past week.

Its not that there are meanies in the fox forum, its just plain dead. Our matchup chart hasnt been updated since MAY. (Im working on that).

Ok listen up, because Ill tell you all you need to know about fox. This works out good too because one of my friends is a lucario Main.

Common fox combos:
dair-utilt-utilt-usmash
""" - """ - """ -bair
dair-utilt(continuous)
Dthrow-fair
Dair-shine
Dair-dtilt
Dair-Dsmash
Dash Attack-Utilt
Dair-Usmash
Bthrow-laser

As you can see, Dair is pretty much the main thing for fox. it kicks off almost all of his combos. Dair to usmash is the best killer. If your in the air when he connects with his dair and drills you to the ground, you cant escape the usmash. If your on the ground when u get hit, you can get your shield up in time. If you have your shield up when dair hits, YOU CAN SHIELDGRAB FOX.

I punish my friend a lot for using fsmash. As mentioned, I run in and deliver a usmash.

Lucarios dmash is great against fox. I like rolling around oppoenents as a mindgame and to messs them up. Lucarios Dmash easily stops this. Your aura sphere can be reflected, who would of thought? .

Lucarios side B chaingrab works on fox if you connect with it like below 10% i think. Gives u like a good 20% on him.

Lucarios Dair owns every one of foxs aerials. I even think it outprioritzies ALL of foxs moves. If he trys to juggle you, this stops it. Also, shorthopping it can halt a lot of combos too. As fox, I usually handle it by fairing into lucario, away from the down airs hitbox.

Blaster spam is bittersweet for lucario, since he gets stronger with more damage. I usually open up when lucarios charging his aura sphere. Even though Im making the sphere stronger, I dont know if its worth taking the damage from the blaster.

Watch out for Shine spike, If you get knocked down low, one shine spike, and fox grabbing the edge=death.


REVIEW:

-Dair starts the majority of foxs combos
-If times right, it can be shieldgrabbed
-Lucarios Dair outprioritizes all of foxs aerials, and im pretty sure all of his moves.
-sideb chain works a low percents for about 20% damage
-Foxs Dair-Usmash=best kill combo.

CONCLUSION:
I think the matchup is slight advantage lucario, since he has overall better priority and spacing over fox, thanks to the aura.
A skilled fox player makes this a close matchup though, so dont think it will be easy.

Helping out is no problem guys!

 

[Timbers]

Thanks a lot for the contribution Pgh-M@v-Pgh. Everything sounds pretty accurate to me =)

Dair (when you're both in the air) to usmash can be tech'd though, just a heads up.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Mmmkay, I think we're done with Fox. I'd like to come back to him later, though. If there's anything I'm missing or anything that you think is innaccurate, let me know. You know the drill.

I'm going to post the export tonight, and we can start on Pika tomorrow.

 

[dj_pwn1423]

I want to get to G&W already T_T even though I have some pika and luigi experience.

 

[FzeroX]

Let's see what I can tell you...

Lucario will die off the top of FD by upsmash at 95% guaranteed, 94% sweetspotted (whoop dee doo *rolls eyes*) he has a death combo on lucario at 91%, dair to upsmash.

When you guys are at about 85% I will start Laz0r camping you to get you up to death percent, as well as refreshing my upsmash if necessary.

I usually mix up nair, dair, and fair approach on most characters but due to the way Lucarios aerials are dair and bair are much more prominent. Dair is the core of beating Lucario, at nearly any percent we can combo into another move or jab grab.

When you get thrown it is best for you to aerial instead of airdodging, because you have high priority aerials they will be out ours 90% of the time, if you airdodge then we can follow you up and have and easier time connecting another attack. Byfar the most commonly used throw is dthrow, learn to DI that but do not get into the condition of always DIing that way because I found that if you DI an fthrow like a dthrow tehn that setup up perfectly for a uair or possibly fsmash if we get some mindgames off.

be careful when falling down, I noticed that the majority of the time when falling down the player will dair to stop coming aerials, just be warned that a smart fox will evade this by going to the side and bairing, which is a very powerful move as well as as good damage dealer.

Like stated earlier shine spikes are the equivalent of death and since you deal no damage no fox will be scared to attempt to shine spike you.

In conclusion I think this is a very even matchup like all the other matchups lucario has (how ironic). A smart fox know that he only need to get 9 hits on you before you are dead (this may vary depending on which attacks).

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I am compiling stuff for Fox and am going to edit this so watch for it. mmmmkay

Sweet.


It's Pika time ya'll!

 

[Trela]

EDIT: Look at my new post.

 

[§witch]

Like a third of the cast has a footstool to jablock combo. Trying to implement it into your game is hard ****. I've never even heard of it being pulled off in a match setting.

I already stated that staying underneath Fox while chasing him is a not a good idea. Intercept him with fair into whatever. Shinestalling isn't a big thing to worry about.

Dair won't combo into dtilt, ftilt, utilt (correct me if I'm wrong on that), usmash, fsmash, dsmash, shine, any aerial. With the trip, It'll combo into like anything except fsmash. WITH THE TRIP. I don't know chance of getting the trip with Fox's dair, but even at 100% I don't see it working over 40% of the time.

Fox has a good air game, but come on. Look at Lucario's own air game and tell me who's you think is better. Even Fox's fair, can be DI'd out and hit by Luc's own fair. Yeah ok it does ~23% when all hits connect. We have several aerial true combos that do that/more (depending on our own percentage), so we're sorry if it doesn't come off as an extremely terrifying move in the matchup. When Luc's fair outprioritizes Fox's nair, then it having "mad priority" is definitely not a concern to us.

Olol, dair to utilt is fox's best combo. It combos to usmash, and dsmash as well.

 

[Timbers]

It combos into utilt. It won't combo into usmash or dsmash without the trip.

Pikachu players had some sort of matchup thread in here not too long ago, lemme go quote stuff from it.

Lucario vs. Pikachu in Lucario thread:

I also main both, so i will try to speak of this. Lucarios aerials outrange pikas, and are generally stronger and more able to combo. Lucario also out ranges pika on the groun with maybe the exception of pikas fsmash, which yippe it....tipped. what pika has is his speed. pika also has a very good edgegaurd ability, and can really make life hard for any lucario off the edge. I would say that it is a small lucario advantadge, but against any good pika lucario is in for a rough ride.

-what advantages do you have over pikachu?
Outrange everything. Lucario's floaty enough to avoid any tech chases by Pika's usually-good throws to chase. Pika lacks a gimp game, something that every Lucario normally fears. His killmoves are easy to avoid as Lucario. Usmash is the only realistic setup in this game, and Lucario can play VERY GAY to avoid it.

-what disadvantages do you have?
Speed. Pikachu's very quick, and very small. We might outspace him, but he has the speed to get inside and deal damage. Superior projectile. Some may argue, but his projectile is much easier to spam and much more effective to spam than baby auraspheres. It's not only until higher percents where Lucario can start throwing halfcharged/fullcharged aurasphere to completely eat through the thundershocks. I haven't tested at what percents it's possible.

-if you were playing as pikachu against your own skill level of lucario what would you do?
Pikachu's a gay character. There's no point denying it. If you're winning with Pikachu, you're using retreating thundershocks 3/4 of the time. Understandable, Pikachu can't take hits. With that said, it's necessary to approach him more often than not. Our fair combos don't work very well on him, as he's small. SHAD behind him doesn't work as you'll more often than not be sucked up by his dsmash. Pikachu has a very noticeable amount of afterlag on his thundershocks though. SH dair is effective as approach. If he's approaching midair with a thundershock, roll behind the shock (and him) and intercept him.

Just stay in the air all game. The only threatening aerial that Pikachu has is his fair, and comparing it to ours, it's silly.

IMO the matchup is about even. Technically I feel it could be a slight advantage to Pika but I'm a lil biased. Lucario's most dangerous moves to pika are Dair, fsmash, and usmash... cause they'll kill at really low percents. They both don't have ridiculous advantages over the other... and the ridiculous advantages they do have have about an even effect on the battle... which is pika's edgeguarding vs lucario's kill potential on the stage if he gets pika to run into something.

what anther said, excluding the usmash.

Usmash is one of his weaker moves. You'll be seeing bair, fsmash, and aurasphere as prime killmoves.

Pikachu vs. Lucario
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185832

Lucario matchup chart
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/mootmootmoot/LucarioMatchupChart-1copy-8.png

 

[Timbers]

Let's see what I can tell you...

Lucario will die off the top of FD by upsmash at 95% guaranteed, 94% sweetspotted (whoop dee doo *rolls eyes*) he has a death combo on lucario at 91%, dair to upsmash.

When you guys are at about 85% I will start Laz0r camping you to get you up to death percent, as well as refreshing my upsmash if necessary.

I usually mix up nair, dair, and fair approach on most characters but due to the way Lucarios aerials are dair and bair are much more prominent. Timbers said something earlier about the dair not being much of a threat, well... he was wrong. dair is the core of beating Lucario, at nearly any percent we can combo into another move or jab grab.

When you get thrown it is best for you to aerial instead of airdodging, because you have high priority aerials they will be out ours 90% of the time, if you airdodge then we can follow you up and have and easier time connecting another attack. Byfar the most commonly used throw is dthrow, learn to DI that but do not get into the condition of always DIing that way because I found that if you DI an fthrow like a dthrow tehn that setup up perfectly for a uair or possibly fsmash if we get some mindgames off.

be careful when falling down, I noticed that the majority of the time when falling down the player will dair to stop coming aerials, just be warned that a smart fox will evade this by going to the side and bairing, which is a very powerful move as well as as good damage dealer.

Like stated earlier shine spikes are the equivalent of death and since you deal no damage no fox will be scared to attempt to shine spike you.

In conclusion I think this is a very even matchup like all the other matchups lucario has (how ironic). A smart fox know that he only need to get 9 hits on you before you are dead (this may vary depending on which attacks).

(when'd I say dair wasn't a threat? It's his scariest aerial in this matchup)

Anyways, what FzeroX said was generally correct. To add on, the "death combo" requires the opponent to get the trip/flinch animation for dsmash or usmash to become a true combo. I don't know the ratio on this, but even saying it'll happen 1/3 of the time is pushing it. Again, I don't have numbers. Just know to shield when you get hit by dair, you'll always shield his killers if you don't get tripped.

I still stick by my opinion of 60:40 in Luc's favor. Fox might have low-percent killers, but unlike GaW (or any "glass cannon"), it's much more difficult for him to rack damage or combo well into those killers. dair->usmash is a threat, but even that specific setup for Fox is difficult. You outrange him very well. Just don't sit right underneath him. To respond to FzeroX's comment, those 9 hits are going to be very hard for Fox to land, and landing the killer is going to be even harder.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

And I will agree with you Timbers. The match-up is 60:40 Lucario. And if you really think that a dair to usmash is a real combo, then you should play someone who knows how to shield(push L!!). Seriously. That doesn't work without a trip, because the dair cannot be auto-cancelled. Otherwise Fox would suddenly be a WHOLE lot better.

Now...enough about Fox, eh? IT'S TIME FOR PIKACHU!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will post later on Pika because I'm very, very tired. I was up in the mountains for AYO(Albuquerque Youth Orchestra), playing difficult music for about 8 hours a day for 4 days. Plus we had to sit in metal chairs, and I didn't use my pillow for 2 days and my butt HURTS!! Just thought I'd let you all know that.

 

[tedward2000]

Ill be with a Review next time on.
Im working on it right now.
-t2

 

[manhunter098]

Well I guess its been a while since I have said much of anything here. I will say that this match is about 50/50. Probably with a little leeway to each character.

Pikachu's down smash is definitely something to look out for. But if he misses, you can double team into it and score a free hit. So its something you should definitely try as a finisher seeing as how Pikachu is going to use down smash whenever he gets the chance and you dont have an aura sphere charged up.

Pikachu has some weird priority on his aerials. Most notably b-air and f-air. They are multi hit attacks and suck you in really well, all it takes is getting nicked and you are taking some damage. Im also not sure, but I think there is some degree of disjointedness in his aerials, however Lucario still wins out there, but if your timing isnt extremely good, your going to trade blows with him.

Lucario's d-air isnt as useful here, since Pikachu can use Thunder to deter this.

Also important to understand is that Pikachu pretty much REQUIRES you to be very close to him in order to kill you, with the exception of thunder (the lightning bolt part), the hitboxes for all his kill moves are small. Also, you should NEVER get hit by his thunder on the ground, it just shouldnt happen, but on the off chance that it does its probably going to kill you if you are at any decent percentage since it has insane knockback.

The quick attack cancel is something that you do need to look out for, but lucky for Lucario he has a projectile and keeping a charged one should stop your opponent from using QAC as an approach option.


Pikachu is a rather small character. And something about the way he moves just makes him a bit difficult to hit. He is also rather challenging to gimp so I would be a little wary about how you try to fight when you are off stage. I would say you are better off following up with b-air and d-air (at higher percentages) when off stage to try to kill him rather than trying to gimp him.



And as much as I seem to be saying Lucario wins out on everything. Pikachu really is a solid character and the fact that is is next to impossible to gimp means you have to send him flying to his death. That poses a little problem to Lucario since gimping is clearly the best way to get kills. And its not that Lucario cant kill, but due to aura I would say his killing ability is slightly below average most of the time during the match. Pikachu isnt exactly extremely light if I recall correctly, hes close to middle weight, so hes not too easy to kill, but not exactly hard.

 

[Trela]

Pikachu's Fundamental Moves.

EDIT: Oh, I didnt see the post above me 0_0
Ok. I think I got some of its Fundamental moves down, or all

Thundershock-Jolt: Pikachu's projectile. They combine this with the SH for spacing. Can stop our baby-AS. A 3/4(?) or fully charged AS will go through these.

Dsmash: Most annoying move ever. Used to rack up damage. Do not roll spam around a pikachu! You can DI out of this.

Thunder: Pika's "Raining projectile". Used for edgeguarding games. Can stop our arial game if used right. Thunder's weakness is DT, so counter this.

Quick Attack: Pika's recovery move. Used with QAC and QAL for mindgames. The QAC can be deadly if you dont see it. Dairing can help with this.

Skull bash: SideB and mini-recovery. Used for recovering and closing in for attacking. They play mindgames with it a lot. Nair, DT, Bair, or a fully charged AS will stop this.

If i'm wrong about anything, i'm sorry I try.
EDIT: Thanks for helping us Neji!

 

[neji32]

Despite my sig and avatar, I main pika =D.

I'll say this, if your causeing pika a problem, dont space yourself we will just short hop thunder jolt spam. IMO its one of the hardest spams to get pass. You beat us in aerial game and thats your best atribute, AIR. Don't get caught on the ground or its Fair>Dsmash>QAC>thunder
Thought depending on your health, the thunder is avoidable. We also might have trouble killing yall(if your really good, other wise your dead) which is bad for us cause you grow stronger with damage. But pika likes to combo others into the air for either
A) Uair> thunder
B)Thunder
Depending on the situation. Pika depends on the air alot. Thats his main weakness (if that is a weakness =/). Don't plan on being obvious with aerials cause thunder jolt will knock you out the air and straight for Fair>Dsmash. I don't really think lucarios alk that good against pika. So i can't help you with stratigies. Pikas use QAC alot but theres not a pattern for it. Its completely customized depending on how they feel like approaching, drawing out or mind games. QAC can be confusing

EDIT: Don't worry about QAL too much. It requires us to knock you down but still be close enough to QA you. Most people fall to far/ not enough stun/ tech there landings. As long as 1 of those things are happening, theres not much to worry about. Pika dont have many moves that lead into it.

EDIT 2: Pikas ledgeguarding game differs, dont expect thunder all the time.

 

[Browny]

Pikas recovery is overrated. He really has no option but to sweetspot the ledge out of QA since the landing lag if he overshoots it is huge. Even though he will use skull bash from high up to negate this, if you get him below the stage it really limits his options. dont miss a chance to edgehog and force pika to land over the stage for a free get-up attack or AS if you are quick enough

 

[Timbers]

Retreating/approaching thundershocks are annoying. So is ff fair->grab/dsmash.

ffffff.

He's boring to play against.

 

[neji32]

Pikas recovery is overrated. He really has no option but to sweetspot the ledge out of QA since the landing lag if he overshoots it is huge. Even though he will use skull bash from high up to negate this, if you get him below the stage it really limits his options. dont miss a chance to edgehog and force pika to land over the stage for a free get-up attack or AS if you are quick enough

Sorry, against a good pika it wont work. We can QA to the stage and still cancel it...........now who says its overrated =p

 

[Pentaoku]

Due to the nature of thunder jolts (moving in an arc-like fashion) and our Baby Aura Spheres (moving in a wave pattern), it is very possible that if you fire a BAS at a thunder jolt, the sphere may just go UNDER the jolt completely.

Down smash can be DI'd out of if you're good. At higher percents it feels easier to DI out, but if you don't DI out at higher percents, you'll die at around 120%.

Pikachu's f-smash does more damage and knockback near Pikachu's cheeks than at the tip IIRC. The tipped version is a lot weaker in comparison and it probably will not kill you until very high percents.

As long as you can DI out of down smash and stay away from being too close to Pikachu, you'll be able to survive a lot longer.

Pikachu's n-air is pretty powerful soon after it begins, so again, don't let him get too close.

Some of the more gutsy Pikachu players WILL edge guard you. If you happen to be below the stage and you need to recover, watch out for incoming aerials and Wave-bounced thunders. When recovering from above, you have a lot less to worry about, because you can pretty much just f-air/air dodge your way back to the stage so long as you don't waste your second jump.

Be careful of QAC, as it can really let Pikachu get up close to you. Worse yet, it can get Pikachu away from you and start firing thunder jolts. However if a Pikachu player decides to try firing one too many jolts, time a charged Aura Sphere to charge through the bolts and blast that Pika. However that's easier said than done, as Pikachu using thunder jolts on the ground isn't that common in the first place. Short hopped and full hopped jolts will be tons more common...

Overall I'd say, play it smart in this battle. You have the advantage with a powerful projectile that can eat his, and the ability to outrange him. That's not to say he can't win, as if you make even the slightest mistakes, a Pikachu player can really take advantage of them thanks to the QAC.

 

[Trela]

Well, here's a little match-up on Lucario from Their Pikachu guide:

Lucario

Lucario is a very good character and a strange one to face with Pikachu. I recommend using full hop Thunder Jolts if you want to use thunder jolt in this match because Lucario can block it with his Aura Sphere (will block thunder jolt and continue going horizontally if fully charged) and Focus Palm plus he can dodge it with Double Team. Speaking of Double Team, a good Lucario player will know how to use this very easily and will be able to dodge any attack your throw at him other than grabs. This is why grabs seem to be a major part of fighting Lucario with Pikachu, also I will edit this once I can confirm this but it seems like Pikachu can chain grab Lucario from 0 - 40% with forward throw. Forward Smash works pretty nicely against Lucario due to the range, but all of Pikachu's smashes seem great on him. Usually use the smashes if Lucario is in mid attack though because otherwise they can be dodged easily. Hit and run tactics seem to work well against Lucario, but the more damage Lucario takes the stronger he becomes. Keep this in mind, try to rack up as much damage without getting hurt badly, and finishing him off with a well placed smash. Playing smart with Pikachu helps a lot in this match.

=D

 

[neji32]

Yea, dont get grabbed or its over. CG 0-40%>Utilt>Uair>thunder

 

[Timbers]

I'm almost positive Pika's cg won't work on Luc, especially not to 40%. He's hella floaty and not exactly a larger character.