~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~

[Zero_Gamer]

No, Wolf is just some fat guy with a gun. Pikachu's projectile game >>>>>>> Wolf's. The thing goes slower, has worse trajectory, and has more cooldown lag. Wolf's close range game is also pretty lame compared to Pikachu's (Dsmash!).

 

[Timbers]

I don't get why people complain about Pikachu spamming. It's not nearly on the level of Wolf.

You're kidding lol. Thundershocks travel all the way down the stage, making it an awesome edgeguard tool. When in the air, he can use it to approach, and have the thundershock hit his opponents in a diagonal fashion, and be lagless to follow it up with anything. He's also fast on the ground, making followups a breeze.

Wolf's projectile is linear, slow, and lacks range. He's slow himself, so following up on the gun makes it hard.

 

[Trela]

I hate spammers. My life is revolved around spammers. there's a Pit, Kirby(a Kirbysider), Wolf, Pikachu, Jigglypuff(Rollout spammer), and a Luigi! HELP ME!

I like Pika's ground game though. It can do many things down there.

 

[Pentaoku]

You're kidding lol. Thundershocks travel all the way down the stage, making it an awesome edgeguard tool. When in the air, he can use it to approach, and have the thundershock hit his opponents in a diagonal fashion, and be lagless to follow it up with anything. He's also fast on the ground, making followups a breeze.

Wolf's projectile is linear, slow, and lacks range. He's slow himself, so following up on the gun makes it hard.

Yeah I've just been dealing with a lot of campy Wolf players lately. It's just really annoying that you can't cancel out their blaster shots.

I don't have a big issue with Pikachu's thunderjolts since I usually cancel them <_<.

 

[Timbers]

Yeah thundershock has crappy priority lol.

But overall it's a more effective projectile. Wolf can't go on the offensive with his projectile. It's just there to add up damage. Even without the laser, Wolf does very well. Pikachu's is a very large staple in his moveset. Without it, he'd be suffering bottom tier syndrome.

 

[neji32]

I give it 55-45 lucario. Though pika "seems" to control the ground, its still difficult for pika to get around. Pikas good at racking damage but if Dsmash is used as a damage builder, it can't be used as a killer. Kinda hard to kill lucario at times, that stronger as his health increases makes it hard for pika since hes lightweight.

 

[Timbers]

Is dsmash actually used as a killer? You can SDI out of the final hit like 90% of time..

 

[Browny]

dsmash can kill, but with good DI even a fresh one wont KO until like 150% or so, and if you smash DI it wont kill at all

 

[neji32]

You actually can't DI out of it if your hit right. The closer to pika the harder to DI. Thats how anther plays, he saves Dsmash to kill. If I can't kill somone and I die, I just run to them and Dsmash . Its a great killer if used right

 

[Daimonster]

You actually can't DI out of it if your hit right.

Please explain how to be hit the wrong way? Despite being close, players escape the pika d.smash because the left and right SDI sends you up. If you are closer than normal, a player can SDI < and > and hold up on the analog stick in order to DI outa the move. Again, very curious as to how a player gets hit the wrong way.

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

I give it 55-45 lucario. Though pika "seems" to control the ground, its still difficult for pika to get around. Pikas good at racking damage but if Dsmash is used as a damage builder, it can't be used as a killer. Kinda hard to kill lucario at times, that stronger as his health increases makes it hard for pika since hes lightweight.

How is it hard for Pikachu to get around... Last I remembered he can go anywhere and everywhere. I am still convinced that he has learned Fly from an HM somehow.

His quick attack cancel allows him to have rediculous speed in going where he wants, and it removes any lag he would get from moving normally.

Has anyone talked about Up Tilt >>> Thunder, from what I have seen it is just as accurate as Rain Dance >>> Thunder.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

I like that line about Pikachu learning Fly. I could see that too. His movement is definitely not very, if at all, restricted in this match-up.

Hmmm...

PIKACHU:

General Tactics: Pikachu does not, by any means, have to approach you. He can just sit there and shoot his stupid little thunderjolt with short hops or(most likely) full jumps. It has good priority, so your Aura Spheres won't beat it as BAS ever. A FCAS will beat it out at any percentage higher than 70%. As a side note you can spam your BAS way faster than he can spam his thunderjolt, and since thunderjolt NEVER eats BAS or fully charged at any percentage, if you get into a projectile battle you're gonna win. Pikachu can approach with the fair a whole lot; it's easily spammed. It has a certain property of floatiness that allows Pikachu to do a slight slide when he hits the ground if you tap a direction(you can see this VERY evidently with Marth), so watch out for that, because it's good for spacing and keeping away from counter attacks and also for doing the dsmash. Pickachu's LOOOOVE their dsmash, and MOST Pikachu players will not save it as a kill move and simply abuse it all the time, similar to Peach's dsmash in Melee, ja? If you do get hit with it, then you need to space better, especially at higher percentages when all you need to do to keep him away from you on the ground is shoot AS at him because it WILL eat through the thunderjolt. If Pickachu jumps over it, then you should be at an advantage, right? Anyways, if the dsmash hits you, then tap DI rapidly to one side and get out please. Do not just sit there and do nothing, because the final hit has more knockback than the rest and you'll probably die if you're not at least TRYING to DI, and if you don't die they'll just use a thunder, and since you'll probably be so high up Lucario won't be able to move yet, you're still dead.

Lucario's Strategy: Like I said before, please use either fully charged AS' after 70% to eat through the thunderjolt spam, or just shoot BAS at any percentage to cancel them out and win the projectile battle. They will most likely be doing full jumped thunderjolts, so find a way around that. It's not an impregnable defense, it never is. Keep him Pika in the air, preferably above you so that you're not vulnerable to thunder. If he has a dsmash addiction, it can be so very easily punished with a well timed Double-Team, so if you don't DT often, here's an excellent spot to do it. Pikachu also dies at around 100% if you're at 100% and you hit them with it, so if you look for the chance it can be a VERY annoying move for Pikachu to get around, as it will kill them very easily at higher percentages for you. Yay!! You need to space well too. The fsmash is generally not recommended, as it is very slow and Pikachu is not slow, so try to use your tilts more. FPCG isn't really all that useful either, but it can still combo if you time everything right. Just try to kill Pikachu quickly, because if you don't then you'll lose the edge you gain from them being unable to kill you until at least 120% or so, unless you're an idiot and DI upwards on a dsmash to a thunder. Once at higher percentages, control the match and hold on to that stock as long as you can.


I think that covers all the stuff I wanted to say on strategy. Now, let's see if I can think of some stages...not so good at that part, now am I?


Overall match-up: Hmmm...this is kind of a tough call. I'm tempted to say it's 50:50, even. Our AS beats out the thunderjolt in terms of speed and at anything higher than 70% priority, so Pikachu's projectile is not nearly as useful as it could be against other people like Wario. But then, our smash attacks(the main way Lucario's like to kill: FSMASH!!!!!!!) are way laggy, so don't expect to get them off very often. If we use them we'll probably be punished by the rodent's speed. Instead we must resort to the less favored tilts, although FP and DT are both excellent ways of killing a Pikachu. Their ground game beats out ours by a long-shot, but our air game, as usual, is better than theirs. So yea...I wanna say even.

Stages: Now...I'm not the best at coming up with uber awesome CP's for characters, but so far I have seen nothing on this subject yet. So in short no, we're not done with Pikachu. Anyways, here goes:

Frigate Orpheon This stage is an amazing Lucario stage. If you haven't figured that out, go jump off a cliff. Just kidding. It's got lots of ledges to cling to, and stuff like that. The high ceiling protects against the dreaded dsmash, and also the usmash. If you go high enough, Pikachu's thunder won't be able to reach you either, so you if you have a moment of bad DI, you may still be in luck. Pikachu off the ledge + Lucario= Win!! At least on this stage. And try and abuse landing lag if they use skullbash to get back on the stage or use quick-attack(QA) and use both the first and the second attacks. The best way to punish lag is the FP, because it grabs the shield too!

Luigi's Mansion This stage, again, is very good for Lucario. The ceiling's on the left and right sides of the stage will protect you from being killed with the d/up smash. It also negates Pikachu's down-b, so abuse that too. You'll collect damage pretty easily, so once you're at a good enough percent space yourself right and do a FP or something. If you do it right they'll go flying right out the upper side or right off the top. You have several kill moves, so pick one and use it. Whatever.

Other than those two, there's not really any other stages(at least that I can think of) that truly **** Pikachu. Everything else is more or less a pretty neutral stage in this match-up. Except for maybe Rainbow Cruise, you might have an advantage there. Don't know though, I've never played a Pikachu on that stage.

That's all I got. Sorry I haven't been around lately, I got really busy hehe. Later.

 

[Trela]

Thanks for the help Erich! But what stages do Pikachu own on?

It looks like pikachu is finished with(to me). I wanna talk about Luigi! My friend mains him =I

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Thanks for all the info, Erich! <3

We'll start with Luigi tomorrow.

Stages to avoid with Pikachu would be nice, though.

 

[neji32]

I got something you all should see before moving on

READ↓↓↓↓↓↓
Though you can DI out of Dsmash, pikas found a way to punish it. QAL. If you DI out against a good pika, you will be QAL xD. That changes everything. 60:40 pika

 

[Timbers]

I like that line about Pikachu learning Fly. I could see that too. His movement is definitely not very, if at all, restricted in this match-up.

Hmmm...

PIKACHU:

General Tactics: Pikachu does not, by any means, have to approach you. He can just sit there and shoot his stupid little thunderjolt with short hops or(most likely) full jumps. It has good priority, so your Aura Spheres won't beat it as BAS ever. A FCAS will beat it out at any percentage higher than 70%. As a side note you can spam your BAS way faster than he can spam his thunderjolt, and since thunderjolt NEVER eats BAS or fully charged at any percentage, if you get into a projectile battle you're gonna win. Pikachu can approach with the fair a whole lot; it's easily spammed. It has a certain property of floatiness that allows Pikachu to do a slight slide when he hits the ground if you tap a direction(you can see this VERY evidently with Marth), so watch out for that, because it's good for spacing and keeping away from counter attacks and also for doing the dsmash. Pickachu's LOOOOVE their dsmash, and MOST Pikachu players will not save it as a kill move and simply abuse it all the time, similar to Peach's dsmash in Melee, ja? If you do get hit with it, then you need to space better, especially at higher percentages when all you need to do to keep him away from you on the ground is shoot AS at him because it WILL eat through the thunderjolt. If Pickachu jumps over it, then you should be at an advantage, right? Anyways, if the dsmash hits you, then tap DI rapidly to one side and get out please. Do not just sit there and do nothing, because the final hit has more knockback than the rest and you'll probably die if you're not at least TRYING to DI, and if you don't die they'll just use a thunder, and since you'll probably be so high up Lucario won't be able to move yet, you're still dead.

Don't ever try outspamming a Pikachu. Pika can move out of harm's way with fulljumped thundershocks, while you're stuck on the ground (or the air) trying to hit him with your completely horizontal projectile. You won't win. Thundershock has lame priority. Pretty sure Luc's fair outprioritizes it, for example.

Lucario's Strategy: Like I said before, please use either fully charged AS' after 70% to eat through the thunderjolt spam, or just shoot BAS at any percentage to cancel them out and win the projectile battle. They will most likely be doing full jumped thunderjolts, so find a way around that. It's not an impregnable defense, it never is. Keep him Pika in the air, preferably above you so that you're not vulnerable to thunder. If he has a dsmash addiction, it can be so very easily punished with a well timed Double-Team, so if you don't DT often, here's an excellent spot to do it. Pikachu also dies at around 100% if you're at 100% and you hit them with it, so if you look for the chance it can be a VERY annoying move for Pikachu to get around, as it will kill them very easily at higher percentages for you. Yay!! You need to space well too. The fsmash is generally not recommended, as it is very slow and Pikachu is not slow, so try to use your tilts more. FPCG isn't really all that useful either, but it can still combo if you time everything right. Just try to kill Pikachu quickly, because if you don't then you'll lose the edge you gain from them being unable to kill you until at least 120% or so, unless you're an idiot and DI upwards on a dsmash to a thunder. Once at higher percentages, control the match and hold on to that stock as long as you can.

To add on, you can play extremely gay in the higher percents with aurasphere. Abusing it shuts down a lot of his approach. Stay in the air. The only killmove Pika has in the air is his nair, and it's severely lacking in range. I'd stay in the air for the most of this game. Pika gets around your ground game way too well.


I think that covers all the stuff I wanted to say on strategy. Now, let's see if I can think of some stages...not so good at that part, now am I?


Overall match-up: Hmmm...this is kind of a tough call. I'm tempted to say it's 50:50, even. Our AS beats out the thunderjolt in terms of speed and at anything higher than 70% priority, so Pikachu's projectile is not nearly as useful as it could be against other people like Wario. But then, our smash attacks(the main way Lucario's like to kill: FSMASH!!!!!!!) are way laggy, so don't expect to get them off very often. If we use them we'll probably be punished by the rodent's speed. Instead we must resort to the less favored tilts, although FP and DT are both excellent ways of killing a Pikachu. Their ground game beats out ours by a long-shot, but our air game, as usual, is better than theirs. So yea...I wanna say even.

Completely irrelevant but thundershocks suck against Wario, as Wario is midair 80% of the match anyways. Fsmash is still a good killer in this matchup though. Anything that Pika whiffs is going to get him fsmash tippered (dsmash, fsmash, thunder, nair, fair, bair, usmash...you get the idea)

Stages: Now...I'm not the best at coming up with uber awesome CP's for characters, but so far I have seen nothing on this subject yet. So in short no, we're not done with Pikachu. Anyways, here goes:

Frigate Orpheon This stage is an amazing Lucario stage. If you haven't figured that out, go jump off a cliff. Just kidding. It's got lots of ledges to cling to, and stuff like that. The high ceiling protects against the dreaded dsmash, and also the usmash. If you go high enough, Pikachu's thunder won't be able to reach you either, so you if you have a moment of bad DI, you may still be in luck. Pikachu off the ledge + Lucario= Win!! At least on this stage. And try and abuse landing lag if they use skullbash to get back on the stage or use quick-attack(QA) and use both the first and the second attacks. The best way to punish lag is the FP, because it grabs the shield too!

Please no >_> I'd avoid this stage the same reason I would avoid Yoshi's Island against Pikachu. His thundershock travels down the wall, meaning your wallcling is gonna get ****ed up if he's spamming thundershocks down the stage. Also has a severely advantageous position on the second stage. He camps underneath the platform and he's completely protected.

Luigi's Mansion This stage, again, is very good for Lucario. The ceiling's on the left and right sides of the stage will protect you from being killed with the d/up smash. It also negates Pikachu's down-b, so abuse that too. You'll collect damage pretty easily, so once you're at a good enough percent space yourself right and do a FP or something. If you do it right they'll go flying right out the upper side or right off the top. You have several kill moves, so pick one and use it. Whatever.

I haven't played the matchup on this stage, however I'm about positive a Pikachu's going to love pillaring you with the ceiling using his dsmash, so if you're set on taking him there, get ready to tech outta that crap. His killmoves will be easy to tech the ceiling with though. His fsmash has a ton of hitlag on it, so you should never be in a position where you won't hit the ceiling.

I'm still weary about this stage though. It promotes ground combat. Not a lot of room for Lucario to move around.

Other than those two, there's not really any other stages(at least that I can think of) that truly **** Pikachu. Everything else is more or less a pretty neutral stage in this match-up. Except for maybe Rainbow Cruise, you might have an advantage there. Don't know though, I've never played a Pikachu on that stage.

Battlefield. His projectile gets gayed there so hard. No on-stage thunder, and enhances your brickwalling.
.

Responses in red.

I got something you all should see before moving on

READ↓↓↓↓↓↓
Though you can DI out of Dsmash, pikas found a way to punish it. QAL. If you DI out against a good pika, you will be QAL xD. That changes everything. 60:40 pika

Explain what QAL is.

60:40 pika is certainly pushing it, pal. Better give us a reason.

EDIT: Wait, are we talking about the lock?

No. Learn to play against people who know what teching is.

 

[Trela]

Explain what QAL is.

60:40 pika is certainly pushing it, pal. Better give us a reason.

EDIT: Wait, are we talking about the lock?

No. Learn to play against people who know what teching is.

Yeah, its the lock.

I would like to see some proof of that, please.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Teching is the reason I would go to Luigi's Mansion. If you say so on Frigate then I'll believe you. Tsch...I'm still not used to taking advise, because I was so good at Melee that I was always the one giving it. Kind of a strange comment I know.

You are right that fsmash is a good killer, but we shouldn't use it like in the Marth match-up. That's not a good idea. And I didn't say outspam a Pikachu, that's not going to happen. If I did, I didn't mean it. I mean that you can match his projectiles and wait for him to move, and since you can shoot BAS faster than he can shoot thunderjolt, you might hit him with one sometime. Just food for thought.

Though I do agree with your reasoning as to why Frigate could be bad, I think that only balances it out to a neutral stage in the match-up. It still has a very high ceiling and protects you from d/usmash. Still though, it's not a stage that will **** Pikachu, so I wouldn't recommend it as a CP.

 

[Browny]

no way in hell 40:60. go watch some recent vids of bloodhawk vs anther. against the undisputed best pikahu in the world, he puts up a very good fight and only really loses to ledge camping tactics

 

[neji32]

Responses in red.



Explain what QAL is.

60:40 pika is certainly pushing it, pal. Better give us a reason.

EDIT: Wait, are we talking about the lock?

No. Learn to play against people who know what teching is.

If you DI out of the dsmash, you have no time to tech it. Check the pika boards, if it was that easy to stop, it wouldn't be cared for

EDIT; to djbrown: Thats why its 40:60, im willing to believe 55:45 pika though

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Last I checked, when you DI out of the Dsmash, there is 0 hitstun and you ARE IN THE AIR. Locks = complete moron not doing anything when he hits the ground. DI out of Dsmash then Dair, it's rudimentary my dear Luigi.

 

[neji32]

You fall on the ground if you di out of dsmash. If you in the air...... you will be QAC>thunder instead. Buf no, you fall on the ground

 

[dj_pwn1423]

I'm pretty sure its possible to tech whenever you are about to touch the ground...

 

[Timbers]

You fall on the ground if you di out of dsmash. If you in the air...... you will be QAC>thunder instead. Buf no, you fall on the ground

You can tech the ground when you fall from the air lol.

That's why locks haven't been implemented very successfully into the game.

Also why does a lock suddenly warrant a 40:60? Do all of Pikachu's matchups suddenly become infinitely easier because he has a lock?

I bet Falco must be god tier with his laser lock then, golly!

I respected your opinion until you made that post. Now I'm not sure if I should even take what you said into consideration.

 

[dguy6789]

You can tech the ground when you fall from the air lol.

That's why locks haven't been implemented very successfully into the game.

Also why does a lock suddenly warrant a 40:60? Do all of Pikachu's matchups suddenly become infinitely easier because he has a lock?

I bet Falco must be god tier with his laser lock then, golly!

I respected your opinion until you made that post. Now I'm not sure if I should even take what you said into consideration.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Kitamerby]

Spacing is ESSENTIAL in the matchup with Luigi. Abuse your quick tilts, keep most of the fight in the air, and whatever you do, do NOT whiff a Dair on his shield.


Oh yeah, we can survive the Fire Jump Punch at 50% or so give or take with DI.


Don't get jabbed.

Oh, and if you're stupid enough to still believe in the chaingrab, this is one match you do NOT want to do it. Luigi's nair beats out almost every single "combo" in the game.

 

[SparkEd]

Coming from a Luigi Main:

Luigi's aerials are underestimated; they're much faster than they look, and thanks to his floatiness he can become a monster in the air if you don't space right. NAir will eat you alive. IIRC Lucario's disjointed hitboxes will outrange Luigi's Aerials save BAir.

Over 60%, Luigi already has killing potential on Lucario. (Ok it's really 51% but the DI will stop it, after 60-65 though yeah you're dead ) Don't get jabbed. Actually, staying next to Luigi for more then one second will almost guarantee a SHORYUKEN in your face. If you're gonna be in his face, you better be quick about it.

The Tornado outprioritizes some of your moves... I guess a Force Palm or FSmash would clear that out. Fireballs are annoying. They'll stop your momentum and stuff.

While Luigi is a tad more gimpable then other characters (FREAKING AURA SPHERE) he can kill you off the top awfully easy. And Upwards Tilted Forward Smash kills 15% earlier or something.

Basically, you want to get him off the edge before he sends up flying up to your Doom.

Oh yeah, on the ground treat him a bit like Mario. No disjointed Hitboxes. But he'll kill you a lot easier than Mario can. He also has stronger BAir Strings than his bro, so be wary.

50:50 as you can gimp him just as easily as he can kill you SHORYUKEN style.

 

[hippiedude92]

@ Spark don't tell them about how to defeat Luigi! Keep them guessing dangit! Jkjk xD

Coming from a Luigi main as well.

Luigi will **** you in the air hands down. He has no startup or ending lag on most of his aerials. His Bair can be used as a WoP off stage making you unable to recover. His Nair can be used as a combo starter at low %s and can kill at high %s. His Fair and Upairs are stringed on to other attacks and help rack up damage.

Luigi has fairly decent ground game. His Fsmash can kill at pretty early %s . His Upsmash can be devastating if used while sliding and hits front and back (note: on the back it has more knockback and huger hitbox). His Dsmash hits front and back as well. All of his smashs kill but his Fsmash is strongest.

Luigi's tilts aren't the best ones on the block but his, utilt, (great juggler and racks up damage quickly) and is easy to string upairs. His dtilt, not alot of Luigi's use dtilt but can be surprising because they can set up a firepunch if they jab dtilt (trips) then a upb.

Luigi can outmatch Lucario at killing power because hes moves can kill pretty early %s. His most feared move is the shoryuken (upb). It kills lucario at 51% and there's alot of setups to it. The downside is that, if he misses, hes open to being punished. The commonly used one is jab to upb or a spotdodge to upb. You can take advantage of powershielding and quickly shieldgrabbing him for punishment.

Lucario can't utilt or juggle Luigi too easily because hes a floaty and he has some moves that can break it as well. Luigi's tornado can be quite surprising because he covers the ground field of the stage quick and fast. It sends you upwards. His green missle (sideb) is used as a recovering and sometimes a offense tool. He has a misfire which has a 1/8 chance of happening. It gives him a huge boost and if your hit the knockback,range, priority, damage can be pretty ugly. So it may come out pretty random at times.

As much as possible keep it grounded game. Lucario's jab to grab/forcepalm can be pretty well racking up damage as you can probably fit 2-3 at very low %s. Luigi can fit 2 aerials in one SH and his Nair is mostly the second one and starts the combos off. Most of Luigi's move set leads to combos in the air.

Probably I'd give this a 60-40 in Luigi's favor because he has more killing power over mario's but i'd give this a 50-50 neutral which i will give

This is a 50-50 matchup both can ledgeguard each other pretty well,

 

[Trela]

Lets see what I know about Luigi:
BEHAVIOR:
-Luigi usually starts off the battle by pressuring you with Fireballs and air combos. Like his brother Mario, his Bair and Uair can be deadly if you dont avoid it. Likes to start combos with some Utilts and probably some jabs.

-When your at higher percents, he will try to finish you off with his Fsmash or his jab>jab>Super Jump Punch combo. His Dair can be deadly too.

-Like us, he will try to keep you up in the air. Luigi can also edgeguard well, and he can **** in the air.

FUNDAMENTAL MOVES:
-Luigi seems to love his Specials a lot, and mixes them up with his arials.

Fireball- His only projectile. Usually spammed and pressured on you. Can stop our Baby AS's. A fully charged AS goes right through these.
Luigi Cyclone- Luigi's Mini-recovery. Used for closing in on you and recovering from below. Moves very quickly and can put you in air combos. Dair, AS, and a well timed DT can get him.
Super Jump Punch- An over-powered smash attack. Used with the jabs for great results. You will see this at higher percents, so be on the lookout. Shielding can help with this.
Bair- The green guy's overused arial. Creates deadly combos with this, and is sometimes used for edgeguarding. Racks up damage FAST with this move. Use quick air dodges and space yourself from this.

Thats all I gotta say about Mario's brother. Feel free to correct me on anything.

EDIT: Thanks for the correction Timbers.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Just a quick thing on Pikachu I wanted to say, and that is that I really doubt that you can pull off a QAC fast enough to move to where we DI'ed to and then do a thunder. I'm pretty sure by then we'll be low enough to simply move out of the way or at least air dodge and move out of the way.

Hmmm...now, I know next to nothing about Luigi, so I'm gonna sit back and watch. *Grabs popcorn*

 

[tedward2000]

Woo, Luigi.
Im working on a review now, I'll post it later.
-t2

 

[Browny]

lucario uair > everything luigi has

 

[Timbers]

Trela, Luigi's a great edgeguarder.

Chart
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/mootmootmoot/LucarioMatchupChart-1copy-9.png

 

[hippiedude92]

O yeah I forgot to mention a few other things. Don't underestimate Luigi's recovery. He has several options in doing so. If he's hit horizontally, he will charge the green missle and aim for the sweetspot ledge. He'll only double jump and sweetspot the ledge with the firepunch only if he's on range. Also note that even your holding the hugging the edge, you'll still get damaged and lose control in holding the edge so be wary. Also he has his tornado which can give him insane vertical height BUT only used if only as a last resort. You must also look out that if your going to gimp him, be wary of his rising tornado because if your caught in it or the outside part of it, it will send you in a offstage angle in where your unable to recover.

I hope that helps ^o^

 

[Pentaoku]

Luigi will **** you in the air hands down.

I disagree with this. Aside from back air, Luigi's aerials don't have very threatening range. Luigi seems pretty open underneath him too, since his down air doesn't look like it could stop anything disjointed, let alone Lucario's up air.

Lucario outspacing Luigi (f-smash, f-tilt) and being able to eat his Fire Balls with charged Aura Spheres seems to give him the advantage on the ground in my opinion.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

As much as I hate to give such simplistic advice... abuse your disjointeds. A lot.

 

[Timbers]

I disagree with this. Aside from back air, Luigi's aerials don't have very threatening range. Luigi seems pretty open underneath him too, since his down air doesn't look like it could stop anything disjointed, let alone Lucario's up air.

Lucario outspacing Luigi (f-smash, f-tilt) and being able to eat his Fire Balls with charged Aura Spheres seems to give him the advantage on the ground in my opinion.

>_>

Luigi's fair has more range than Lucario's.

 

[Trapt497]

>_>

Luigi's fair has more range than Lucario's.

IT DOES?!?!?!?

How?? Was this proven?


I mean, both of us are really good at aerials. It's not fair to say one ***** the other, hippiedude.

 

[Timbers]

Luigi's air game is better. He has no blind spots and overall better combo potential.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Even if it does, Luigi's hurtbox to hitbox ratio is higher than ours so Lucario's Fair > Luigi's Fair. Luigi is a toughy to describe, I've fought a couple of good Luigis, but I don't remember too much. In the air, Luigi's favorite move is, of course, the Bair, the move has insane range, insane priority, and great power even when decayed. Expect this move to be abused when Luigi approaches in the air, don't try to contest it with your aerials, his Bair has priority over just about everything, even G&W's turtle. Another powerful move is the Nair, a less used, but very potent sec kick. The attack does a hefty 14% and is a killer when kept fresh at high percentages (around 150-ish). This aerial is the reason Uptilt and any combo from FP is un-usable. Upair is a tipman attack and all tipmans have high combo potential and are amazing jugglers, luckily for us, Dair beats it. Fair, I already described in my first sentence although it is still a strong move. Dair < Lucario's Upair and Luigi is pretty easy to juggle since he's floaty and we can outprioritize him from below.

On the ground, Luigi isn't really that good. He has strong smashes, but they have very short range and his kill moves are predictable. Lucario has plenty of range on his attacks and should be able to abuse Luigi effeciently at mid range.

I'd recommend fighting on stages that have high ceilings and are short on the sides because all of Luigi's kill moves kill off the top, yet Lucario doesn't rely on ceiling K.O.s as much as him. Stages like: Yoshi's Island, Smashville, Lylat, Pictochat, Luigi's Mansion, and Halberd are pretty good.