Louie's Notes-Olimar Q&A Thread!!

[kelumhi]

SDI over him then neutral air. not sure if you can cancel up-smash but it works. i believe you can hit the bottom with a yellow or the wings with up-b or purple. not sure though.

edit: I believe if he is chasing your sdi off the ground, you can whistle the last hit then counter with an aerial.

 

[Blissard]

There's shielding it, and spotdodging when your shield is up and hoping nado ended by then.
And also N1ck R1ddle's video on Oli's aerials vs. Nado (pretty situational and spacing-perfect though).

 

[Dnyce]

There are tons of ways to beat nado

 

[Jiom]

can oli beat mk d tilt on shield?

 

[Sky Pirate]

I'm notoriously bad at the MK match-up, but I'd say from the frame data that we can't do much.
Apparently MK's Dtilt is -11 on-shield, so I doubt there's a whole lot we can safely do offensively unless he misspaces it (which would allow Usmash OoS and maybe like... shield drop to jab?).
Pretty sure follow-up Dtilts can be countered with Fair OoS, but that's still risky.
There's always the option of just... getting away.

If anyone else with more experience with the match-up can help enlighten, please do.

 

[Dotcom]

Somebody help me: I'm BAD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvi1gZaHvBM&feature=plcp

Nah but seriously, any and all comments are wanted.

 

[Jiom]

I'm notoriously bad at the MK match-up, but I'd say from the frame data that we can't do much.
Apparently MK's Dtilt is -11 on-shield, so I doubt there's a whole lot we can safely do offensively unless he misspaces it (which would allow Usmash OoS and maybe like... shield drop to jab?).
Pretty sure follow-up Dtilts can be countered with Fair OoS, but that's still risky.
There's always the option of just... getting away.

If anyone else with more experience with the match-up can help enlighten, please do.

Oh wow yes thank you very much, I remember using fair to stop repeated down tilts before and thank you very much for the frame data. All in all I really should just avoid that situation.

 

[Dnyce]

Dair oos +2char

 

[tekkie]

is there a short compendium somewhere of the low% CGs and such?

 

[crow95]

What should I do against Snakes Techchase?What are you doing and is working often? I found myself often trapped and losing matches just because of that.

 

[Sky Pirate]

is there a short compendium somewhere of the low% CGs and such?

There really isn't. There is only an old combo/pseudo-combo thread.

What should I do against Snakes Techchase?What are you doing and is working often? I found myself often trapped and losing matches just because of that.

You could get-up attack, roll left, roll right, stand up and jump out/Utilt/Ftilt/roll out/whatever. Just mix it up, be creative, and try to figure out what they're expecting.
Just don't be unintentionally predictable with it, like always rolling toward the center of the stage, but try to be aware when you're doing so. If you roll the same way four times or something, a get-up attack can be a "get out of jail free" card, y'know?
Awareness of your habits and what the Snake is expecting is a big part of it.

 

[Kite0692]

Guys serious question. Is Oli´s up smash safe on shield? at least against Falco...

 

[Sky Pirate]

Not entirely sure, but here's something that may or not help:

Spoiler

I started redoing the "advantage on block" testing a few days ago, and this is what I got for Usmash:

Red: -11
Yellow: -11
Blue: -11
White: -15
Purple: -10

Taken from the first frame of the main hitbox.
Hasn't been verified by anyone else and I kinda mixed up some of the values I had the first time I did advantage on block, so I'm not sure if they're completely accurate. ^^;

Based purely on frame data:

Jab - Falco could very well drop shield (7 frames) and jab (frame 2, IIRC), but it may or may not reach depending on how far he slides and how far his jab reaches.

Jump-canceled Usmash OoS - hits on frame 8, according to the Falco frame data thread. Once again, range is a factor

Grab - Hits on frame 6, range may blah blah

Can't really think of anything he could reasonably do safely. If anyone knows if the Falco can do any of these things (or more), feel free to enlighten.

 

[professor mgw]

I have a few questions.

一: What is the fastest way to instant return & how do you perform it in said way? I noticed when watching a RB match his IR's looked as if they were faster than mine which is why i'm asking.

二: This maybe be more of a personal thing, but I find that a minute or two into the match, I start to like mentally fatigue & practically auto-sandbag (spam side b, run to other side, spam side b), is there any suggestions as to how I can fight against that?

三: Oli vs Falco is a very annoying MU for me simply because of falco's abilty to control the speed of the match with his lasers, how should I be approaching this MU & what pikmin should I be trying to filter out?

四: My button configs are tap jump off & R set to attack, the purpose of that is for DACUS. Is there any other useful configs I should try out & what would be the purpose behind them?

五: What kind of Mix-Ups can I use to ensure that my opponent won't get use to my oli gameplay?

 

[Noa.]

How can I effectively control my pikmin line? Or some tips? Whites are easy to filter out but I always feel like I'm too busy to throw reds offstage. Or I just forget to and it hampers my killing power in certain matchups.

 

[BSL]

Learn the rosa parks, and count pikmin is all I can think of.

 

[Noa.]

I should correct myself and say how do I filter out pikmin?

 

[Dotcom]

I should correct myself and say how do I filter out pikmin?

DSmash + Whistle is the easiest way to go through a line for stuff you don't need. Pluck more when you have time, and while you have distance get rid of the ones that don't help you. I know Asa is really good at this, me though... I'm learning.

 

[Sky Pirate]

You can space pikmin toss when you're firing them off at the opponent. Learn the different ranges to filter out specific colors. White is easiest (just shoot and it'll usually go off or latch), then Red/Blue (same range; barely toss reds off and retreat to keep blues), then Yellow/Purple (AWESOME).
If a "bad" pikmin gets stuck to the opponent, they might kill it anyway. If it doesn't die, that's fine. Not optimal, but fine.
You can also use Fsmash when edgeguarding to send "bad" ones off.
Just don't get obsessed with sorting and lose sight of the opponent. Just find time to toss off. If you're really being pressured, even a white smash/grab can be helpful. Any port in a storm, y'know.

I like to use Uair -> Pikmin toss to sort, making sure that you don't get the butt-bounce. Gives you a good view of your line, so you can memorize the positions of undesirables and toss them off. After the first Uair, I can use Usmash/Dsmash to sort.
Whistle (possibly along with Uair/Usmash/Dsmash) is always an option.

一: What is the fastest way to instant return & how do you perform it in said way? I noticed when watching a RB match his IR's looked as if they were faster than mine which is why i'm asking.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but perhaps your timing for the UpB is different...
Anyone know what he means?

二: This maybe be more of a personal thing, but I find that a minute or two into the match, I start to like mentally fatigue & practically auto-sandbag (spam side b, run to other side, spam side b), is there any suggestions as to how I can fight against that?

Eat well (even during the tournament), get sleep before, and practice to the point that you CAN autopilot certain things. If you're focusing just to execute basic ATs or something, you're going to wear out quickly.
Practice a LOT the night before and a little bit just before, if you can. Don't wear yourself out before it starts (which can cause you to become less creative), but keep sharp.
That's about all I can tell you about this. ^^;

三: Oli vs Falco is a very annoying MU for me simply because of falco's abilty to control the speed of the match with his lasers, how should I be approaching this MU & what pikmin should I be trying to filter out?

I try to keep Yellow as priority 1, then blues, then purples. Blues can put him offstage easily (setting up a kill; his recovery can be predictable) while Purples just outright kill (but are more difficult to hit with, as we usually have to let him in closer).
Laser camping is your problem? I like to camp with shorthop toss and FF to prep for a reaction. Watch for phantasm, use your shield/airdodge, and remember that you can't FF DURING an airdodge. You can FF before the airdodge and it'll have the expected effect.

四: My button configs are tap jump off & R set to attack, the purpose of that is for DACUS. Is there any other useful configs I should try out & what would be the purpose behind them?

My control scheme has R set to "attack", Y set to "special", and tap jump off.

I have R set to "attack" for using smashes while holding an item. Tried doing DACUS with R and found that it was incredibly difficult compared to using the C-Stick and Z.
Y set to "special" is for jump-canceling UpB. Much easier than using B. I still use B for just about everything, though. ^^;

五: What kind of Mix-Ups can I use to ensure that my opponent won't get use to my oli gameplay?

I'll get to this in a bit when I'm not too tired to type a bunch of crap. ^^;

 

[Noa.]

Clover doing work in the question thread lol.

 

[kelumhi]

一: What is the fastest way to instant return & how do you perform it in said way? I noticed when watching a RB match his IR's looked as if they were faster than mine which is why i'm asking.

There is only on way to instant return: http://youtu.be/eOUHNl8ZWz0

If your doing that your good. just make sure that you only get one pickman between you and the stage. Also videos of people, even yourself, look faster when watching from a spectators position. The only other things it could be besides that though is if are throwing out their next move with more accuracy frame wise.

Anyone know if you can buffer coming out of instant return?

五: What kind of Mix-Ups can I use to ensure that my opponent won't get use to my oli gameplay?

Clover will probably give you a better answer, but i find that if your opponent is far away, watch your whole line, and when they get close, use the pickmen you remember properly, but dont take the time to watch anything besides whites and purples. then just switch it up between running and attacking.

For instance, if you run -> pivot grab, or run->short hop->Side-B you are generally safe, but if you randomly throw in a short hop towards them you might be able to Forward-Air knocking them away from you.

 

[professor mgw]

You can space pikmin toss when you're firing them off at the opponent. Learn the different ranges to filter out specific colors. White is easiest (just shoot and it'll usually go off or latch), then Red/Blue (same range; barely toss reds off and retreat to keep blues), then Yellow/Purple (AWESOME).
If a "bad" pikmin gets stuck to the opponent, they might kill it anyway. If it doesn't die, that's fine. Not optimal, but fine.
You can also use Fsmash when edgeguarding to send "bad" ones off.
Just don't get obsessed with sorting and lose sight of the opponent. Just find time to toss off. If you're really being pressured, even a white smash/grab can be helpful. Any port in a storm, y'know.

I like to use Uair -> Pikmin toss to sort, making sure that you don't get the butt-bounce. Gives you a good view of your line, so you can memorize the positions of undesirables and toss them off. After the first Uair, I can use Usmash/Dsmash to sort.
Whistle (possibly along with Uair/Usmash/Dsmash) is always an option.



I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but perhaps your timing for the UpB is different...
Anyone know what he means?



Eat well (even during the tournament), get sleep before, and practice to the point that you CAN autopilot certain things. If you're focusing just to execute basic ATs or something, you're going to wear out quickly.
Practice a LOT the night before and a little bit just before, if you can. Don't wear yourself out before it starts (which can cause you to become less creative), but keep sharp.
That's about all I can tell you about this. ^^;



I try to keep Yellow as priority 1, then blues, then purples. Blues can put him offstage easily (setting up a kill; his recovery can be predictable) while Purples just outright kill (but are more difficult to hit with, as we usually have to let him in closer).
Laser camping is your problem? I like to camp with shorthop toss and FF to prep for a reaction. Watch for phantasm, use your shield/airdodge, and remember that you can't FF DURING an airdodge. You can FF before the airdodge and it'll have the expected effect.


My control scheme has R set to "attack", Y set to "special", and tap jump off.

I have R set to "attack" for using smashes while holding an item. Tried doing DACUS with R and found that it was incredibly difficult compared to using the C-Stick and Z.
Y set to "special" is for jump-canceling UpB. Much easier than using B. I still use B for just about everything, though. ^^;


I'll get to this in a bit when I'm not too tired to type a bunch of crap. ^^;

Glad to see threads that actually serve a purpose (no offense to the social thread) aren't completely dead.

いち- Yes I was talking about the timing of my Up-B in regards to Instant Return, it feels as if i'm timing my up-b slightly slower than other olimar players. One f the other oli players mentioned it looks faster from spectulating so maybe that's it. :T

に- Okay, i'll be sure to eat swell, got a tourney to go to on saturday!

さん- Thanks for the tips! Won't falco's lasers mix with phantasm **** me if I start sh pikmin tossing?

よん- That jump cancel up-B, is that like a up-b OoS?

ご- Take your time, lol.

 

[STEM]

よん- That jump cancel up-B, is that like a up-b OoS?

Yep. I also find it easier with Y as special. Too hard to go X->B

 

[BSL]

Why not just Y->B?

 

[STEM]

X->Y is still easier and personally I only use X for jump. Habit.

 

[Sky Pirate]

STEM is wise. X -> Y is 200 times easier than Y -> B.

Getting back to this:

五: What kind of Mix-Ups can I use to ensure that my opponent won't get use to my oli gameplay?

Be warned, I'm in a really foul mood so this is going to be one long run-on. It'll probably be a bit repetitive and obvious, too. ^^;

Spoiler

To build on what kelumhi said (which was legit advice, BTW):

It can be a good thing to get them used to your gameplay. Conditioning is a big part of the game.
It's just that if you don't do ANYTHING different the entire match, your opponent will expect the same thing and get free damage off of it.
You should also notice how your opponent reacts to your attempts to condition them. Do they expect you to try a mix-up after you get punished for doing the same move once? Twice? What mix-ups do they expect and how do they try to cover them? Do they expect you to play defensive and shield or attack back when threatened? Most, if not all, people have patterns and the good ones are looking to pick out yours. You can create a pattern, destroy that pattern, and punish them for expecting a pattern. You just have to look for what they have, think about what they expect from YOU, and react. Change pace suddenly, change aggression, test your opponent's instincts (try running up and shielding once to see if they take a run away or try to grab you; their reaction will show if they're afraid to be close to you).

That said, it's good to build up a nice collection of "tricks" to keep your game fresh and your opponents guessing:

- Jump -> Delay -> DJ Fair (DJ Fair is done all at once)

- Pikmin Toss -> Fair (this is really good for when people look to punish a Fair on-shield; the pikmin toss can seem like a fair and is quick enough to follow up with an actual fair)

- Dthrow -> Delayed Fair (see what they do: they attack, you PS to Usmash OoS; they flee, they just created space for you to camp; they airdodge or whatever, you Fair; you can also jump at them to force an airdodge, then throw out a delayed fair)

- Dthrow -> Dsmash (IIRC, I picked this up from dabuz a while back)

- Dthrow -> Dair -> FF Fair (only effective against certain characters)

- Roll -> Utilt (method for getting under certain types of aircampers)

- Dash away -> Bair back at them (Can Bair back toward them and just continue through them, Bair and fade away from the opponent again, or a litte bit of both to fake them out)

- Runpast Bair (see above)

- Runpast Pivot grab (commonly comes after a dthrow, but shouldn't be restricted to just that)

- JC Reverse Usmash (so stylish, try to catch people aiming to land behind you)

- Slightly charging smashes to bait a spotdodge (or punish a landing; whatever, I'm not here to judge)

- Pluck Canceling a run -> dashing Usmash/grab in the opposite direction (used to be really common back in yon olden dayes)

This is only a listing few of the methods I like to use to mix up my game, most of which are quite common among Olimars. To list every mixup a person has access to would take a loooooooooong time, so just be more creative. Look through videos, try ATs, ask other Olimars about things they like to do, and see what you can build on.



And when you're on the ledge, don't forget that your options include:

- Normal Getup (can follow up with Usmash or whatever)
- Rolling Getup
- Ledgehop
- Ledge attack
- Instant Return (remember that you can shield something they throw out rather than taking action)
- Ledgedrop -> DJ whistle -> Nair/Fair (wallbreaker)
- Drop -> Retether (fake out, to possibly force action when they look to punish an instant return)
- Drop -> DJ Purple toss
- Drop -> DJ Fair/Nair

Olimar has a surprising number of options on the ledge. Don't just default to ledgehopping all the time or you'll get gimped.

Keep in mind that this is only what I think of it. I'm not a top Olimar, so I do not know the mentality of one.

よん- That jump cancel up-B, is that like a up-b OoS?

Yes, you can also do it while running. Some Olimars like to use JC Reverse UpB to deal with MK's Nado or as an option when pursued off a ledge.

さん- Thanks for the tips! Won't falco's lasers mix with phantasm **** me if I start sh pikmin tossing?

Pfft, I'm dumb. When I camp Falco, I'm actually grounded half of the time or more.
I only mentioned the shorthop crap because that seems to be when people get caught by Phantasm.
BTW. I'm not sure if it's just the Falco I play with, but they seem to get nervous about using Phantasm on you when you camp near the ledge. Just a heads-up.

If you want, you could also ask Rich what he does. He has much better Falco experience than I do.
I REALLY wish some of the top Olimars would answer some of these. They'd probably be able to give you better advice than I am. --;

 

[Labernash]

Can I get some tips on the Snake MU please? I don't know what to do.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Dabuz is really good at the Snake MU. I watched his videos against Razer a lot after he came down here, but I'm not really patient enough to do what he does. ^^;

Apparently, we stay a distance of about 1/2 to 3/4 of BF away and just SHFF toss pikmin most of the match, discouraging approaches with Fsmash/Grab (mostly grab) and punishing things on-shield with shieldgrab/Usmash OoS. We don't really fish for a kill, and kills don't seem to come until like... 180+.
It's mind-bendingly boring to watch.

Ask dabuz for more information, if you see him.
(Or he could namesearch in here or something...)

 

[Noa.]

Just stand there. Every time to jump you leave yourself open to getting mortarslided. Just standing there am tossing beats his grenades. And his only real approach is dash attack. Which you can punish easily. Just stand there and toss, grab, and fsmash. Stay out of his ftilt range. It is necessary to win that you are not that close to him.

In this matchup Snake can only try to make you make mistakes and punish them. If you don't make any mistakes he'll have a hard time.

 

[professor mgw]

Thanks for the help Sky! (I ended up getting 13 out if 42, should've got top 5 but there were some issues with my anolog stick in losers brax, no johns though I lost lol.)

Q1: How can I practice being frame perfect with my moves?

Q2: Can a reverse side B (aerial) be any useful?

Q3: I went 2-1 w/ a peach main in tourney, I ended up banning frigate game 3 (habitual ban) & he cp'ed me to BF. Should I avoid stages w/ low platforms while fighting peach?

Q4: Nobody uses blue gloves oli right? (Since everybody hates on that costume i'm using it. That & rich brown took Negrolimar even though he's not a negro)

 

[BSL]

Someone uses blue gloves, but blue gloves is gay, and his wife is toon link, and all his children die.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Q1: How can I practice being frame perfect with my moves?

Learn to buffer and play around with Oli to get familiar with him (doesn't matter if it's against CPUs or what, just play with him).
You could also get used to the sounds he makes at certain points of moves to get an idea of when certain frames occur.

Q2: Can a reverse side B (aerial) be any useful?

Can you do it consistently while still keeping track of your opponent?
It's kind of difficult IMO, and the only uses I can really think of would be for Reverse SideB -> Fair/Nair.
If you can, feel free to give input on any uses you might discover for it.

Q4: Nobody uses blue gloves oli right? (Since everybody hates on that costume i'm using it. That & rich brown took Negrolimar even though he's not a negro)

It's statistically proven that you lose more / become incredibly gay when you use blue gloves.

The Blue Gloves v. Pink Boots thing is just something from yon olden days. I actually can't really remember how it started now. ^^;
Brood and the retired Zori use blue gloves and they're both legit.

BTW. Hilt used Omar and he used to be the whitest guy I knew.

 

[Judo777]

I feel like Hilt is one of the authorities on this subject but ill ask you guys anyway. I know pikmin pluck percentages are based on where you stand, but is the there any rules pertaining to the first 3 pikmin of the match?

Like can they all be the same color, must one be different, must they all be different (probably not)? Any info you guys have would be appreciated. I just thought it would be funny to Olimar to start off with 3 whites lol.

 

[BSL]

Pretty sure the percentages are the same as of you plucked on that surface.

I've had duplicate pikmin at the start of a match, iirc.

 

[Noa.]

You can get three of the same color. It just doesn't happen often lol. At all.

 

[STEM]

What do I do after being footstooled a little under the ledge? I usually just try to jump and die

 

[Noa.]

you just jump, up B at the peak of your jump, and pray. lol. Just don't let it happen. Uair them!

 

[professor mgw]

Learn to buffer and play around with Oli to get familiar with him (doesn't matter if it's against CPUs or what, just play with him).
You could also get used to the sounds he makes at certain points of moves to get an idea of when certain frames occur.

That's an interesting way to do things. Is there like a small guide on buffering somewhere on SWF?


Can you do it consistently while still keeping track of your opponent?
It's kind of difficult IMO, and the only uses I can really think of would be for Reverse SideB -> Fair/Nair.
If you can, feel free to give input on any uses you might discover for it.


Lol that's kinda the same idea I had assuming I can pull it off normally.



The Blue Gloves v. Pink Boots thing is just something from yon olden days. I actually can't really remember how it started now. ^^;
Brood and the retired Zori use blue gloves and they're both legit.

BTW. Hilt used Omar and he used to be the whitest guy I knew.

Crap, looks like i'm sticking with Negrolimar then. :T

EDIT: Answered inside the quote lol.

 

[Sky Pirate]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Buffer

Because I am too tired to find something that explains it better. ^^;
Seems to do a decent job of explaining it anyway.

 

[fami]

Where can i find matchup Tips against Pit and zss? I dont gut the matchup thread, help pls