Louie's Notes-Olimar Q&A Thread!!

[Dnyce]

What is our best bet out of shield against spaced, long-ranged and fast attacks, like MKs D-Tilt? OOS Usmash did not seem to have enough range.

Not answering exactly, but if you're trying to avoid low hitting moves like mks dtilt or diddy dsmash, have you tried dair oos?

 

[Latch]

@BSL You post a lot here O.O come to more tourneys!!

I'm picking this guy up, I'm not sure what I should work on yet. I'm pretty good at whistling and pivot grabbing and yada, but is there anything y'all can think of that I might not know to practice atm?

Usmashing OoS, also SH pikmin throwing is key, and accidentally full hopping gets you *****, so practice that

 

[MiniTroika]

Fair OOS is an option. Most people can't buffer MK's d-tilt (or multiple attacks) when it hits shields (it messes up the timing), leaving a window for error.

 

[Dnyce]

Cant we still get dsmashed from fair oos? I'll try it out regardless. I like dair oos because olimar gets twice as small during the animation and for mid percent combos

 

[Latch]

olimar gets twice as small during the animation

Lolwut?

Like while he's flipping upside down or something?

Edit: look! A picture!

That's ridiculous... he's the size of a soccer ball O_o

 

[Dnyce]

Lolwut?

Like while he's flipping upside down or something?

Edit: look! A picture!

That's ridiculous... he's the size of a soccer ball O_o

Yeah, his head overlaps his body on the XY-axis, so it's like you lose half your hurtboxes

 

[BSL]

@eso, i just finished with school, so i might have more time, but i have a ladyfan and she demands my free time

 

[RichBrown]

I have a noob question

does Olimar's pivot grab, the one where you do back on the C stick and Z or whatever, go further than his standing grab?

Also does Snake's Ftilt outrange our grab? Because it sure feels that way

And why don't any of us just wait for snake to land and Usmash him right when he's about to get to the ground? We always chase him in the air, I feel like we should be building the most damage out of juggling him. That's basically what the MK-Olimar MU has evolved into: MK maximizing the damage opportunities by superior juggling. I feel that's the same way for the Oli-Snake MU, except we should be utilizing juggling abilities WAY more than we are.

 

[Dnyce]

does Olimar's pivot grab, the one where you do back on the C stick and Z or whatever, go further than his standing grab?

Also does Snake's Ftilt outrange our grab? Because it sure feels that way

1- yeah

2- well, olimar leans forward a **** ton during grab (like half our grab range) so it's like you're extending your hurtboxes toward the opponent that far. Snake's kneecap just gets to us as we lean forward to grab.
That's usually why I focus on fsmashing snake instead of grabbing since fsmash can beat ftilt and dash attack. From a spacing standpoint, you lean back ( move your hurtboxes away from the opponent) on start up/charge, so it's more ideal than grab. Wait for snake to commit to an attack and then fsmash it. Use the charge for situations where you'd normally have to guess (like to beat them rolling into the blind spot of our grab or waiting to see whether they choose dash attack or ftilt).


Havok giving you problems?

Double post / phone johns

The only time I try to use aerials to juggle are using uair to bait them into air dodging into platforms, since they lose invincibility as soon as they land... And so they either get hit or are stuck in shield in a bad position

Otherwise I agree. Yoshi mains juggle the same way with their smashes/grab... If you want any new ideas, lol

 

[Sky Pirate]

And why don't any of us just wait for snake to land and Usmash him right when he's about to get to the ground? We always chase him in the air, I feel like we should be building the most damage out of juggling him. That's basically what the MK-Olimar MU has evolved into: MK maximizing the damage opportunities by superior juggling. I feel that's the same way for the Oli-Snake MU, except we should be utilizing juggling abilities WAY more than we are.

I could swear that this was discussed here before. After his second jump, it kind of seems like his options are really limited if you stay grounded.

AFAIK:
If he looks like he's landing near/on you, you shield to whatever.
If far away, dash to shield/Fsmash. Fsmash can really hurt him if it connects when he's landing.
He can Bair through our Usmash, land and grab us, grenade shenanigans, or footstool. The first two have a bit of room to work with (unless you don't shield the Bair), the third really depends on what he's doing, and the fourth is just... confusing.

My recent experience in the match-up is limited to just my mid-level Olimar against a mid-level Snake that I play a bajillion games with at fests, though. Dunno if better Snakes do different voodoo.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to end this post properly:

 

[RichBrown]

Cool thanks Fino

Carlos beat me last tournament, I have out of practice/personal issues johns but that's still no excuse, and I'm looking to really master the MU because I always learn it pretty well, then forget it really bad

I realized I NEVER insta throw grenades which is stupid of me so I'll start doing that too

 

[Tesh]

Trying to understand something here. How long does it take to shield and then unshield immediately while running? I'm wondering if its ever faster or better in any way to pikmin pull out of a full run to stop faster so i can dsmash out of a run.

I never see much use of Olimars tilts obviously so I'm wondering how legit is this combo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS1g3ILZUU8

When and what can I combo off of dtilt.

 

[kelumhi]

@tesh. The falco could have jumped and been completely fine. He just kept tring to use his down-b which led to him getting crushed.

so, I just noticed that Olimar vs Game and Watch is a +1 on match-up list. while playing this match-up it feels much closer to 3 then anything do to our ability to grab/pivot grab any Game and Watch move. the only thing we cant is empty jump into grab which we can decimate if we ever think is coming. Am I missing something?

 

[Sky Pirate]

Trying to understand something here. How long does it take to shield and then unshield immediately while running? I'm wondering if its ever faster or better in any way to pikmin pull out of a full run to stop faster so i can dsmash out of a run.

I never see much use of Olimars tilts obviously so I'm wondering how legit is this combo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS1g3ILZUU8

When and what can I combo off of dtilt.

Earliest Dsmash can begin (assuming frame 1 is the first frame of the total action [shielding, plucking, etc.]):

Split-second Shield (optimal) - begins on Frame 15, can input Dsmash on 9+ (1-8 produces a spotdodge)

Pluck - begins on varying frames (see explanation below*), can buffer Dsmash normally (10 frames before the end, which is the entire pluck most of the time)

BONUS TIME: Simply releasing and Dsmashing (optimal) - begins on Frame 15, can input Dsmash from frame 7 onward (comes out as dash attack if input on 1-6)




*AN EXPLANATION:

The FAF on Olimar's pluck changes depending on the terrain. The Dsmash will start on the FAF if it is buffered properly.

FAFs:
120%- Frame 9
100%- Frame 9
80%-- Frame 10
75%-- Frame 10
70%-- Frame 11
40%-- Frame 14

Percentages reference the "PS" column of THIS POST.

I really really hope this all made sense. Please let me know if it didn't.

Also, what kelumhi said. I'm not sure of the specifics, but Dtilt is kind of mediocre to bad for comboing. That Falco had opportunities to get out.

so, I just noticed that Olimar vs Game and Watch is a +1 on match-up list. while playing this match-up it feels much closer to 3 then anything do to our ability to grab/pivot grab any Game and Watch move. the only thing we cant is empty jump into grab which we can decimate if we ever think is coming. Am I missing something?

I don't know. I played with a G&W for the longest time and I think it's a +2.
IIIRC, Denti believes it's an even match-up and he has UTD Zac to play with, so he might be someone to ask.
DENTI, NAMESEARCH IN HYER.

 

[kelumhi]

Ooh, just found a youtube video of UTD and DENTI. Thankyou.

 

[Dotcom]

Alrighty then. Soo, decided I'm going to make an honest return to the game. Been away for over a year, and it just feels right. So to all who don't know me...hey. To all who do...hey. I'm currently stuck in a process of being an old Oli in a new metagame so can somebody lay on me things I should know... (i.e instant return, small things to practice)

 

[Dabuz]

G&W is probably +2, arguably +1.

@.com: Learn to Jump Cancel Upsmash OoS, that is the most significant meta change.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah, getting down Usmash OOS is definitely a staple you want to get your hands on.

 

[Dotcom]

USmash OOS was probably the last thing I learned how to do before I left. I was speaking more insta-return because I don't know how to do it and I thought of some cool personal uses.

Anyone care to share steps?

 

[BSL]

Instareturn is really the only thing that is new.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Just updated the "Past the basics: Olimar Advanced techniques" section of Deflowered. Would have done that three weeks ago, but I asked someone else to write two of the summaries (Tarzaning and RP, they'll be added when he has time to do them).
The Instant Return section has a link to a post by Hilt that has a buttload of information on Instant Return.

Also, if I'm missing anything else in that section or any of the information is incorrect, please let me know.

 

[Tesh]

Well I know dtilt doesn't combo forever like sheik's ftilt. I was just wondering if there were times you could use dtilt to combo into upsmash or jab at low percents to add damage.

 

[Dotcom]

From what I recall Dtilt pops them up too high, as well as it doesn't have enough hitstun to combo into anything generally.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah, it doesn't have enough hitstun.

 

[Tesh]

Is there any where I can see how much "stun" it gives. I can see it puts people into that dumb "not enough knockback for tumble yet" animation. The same one that happens in 90% of CGs so I'm hoping there would be something I can do with it.

 

[Dnyce]

why is stun in quotes?

 

[RichBrown]

Do we have ANY grab release things we can do against Ness? Is there anything tight we have against Ness in general, other than gimping his upB with our sideB?

 

[Asa]

you could toss a pikmin lol , might as well throw him offstage if possible

and no nothing really tight in that mu afaik

 

[Tesh]

Earliest Dsmash can begin (assuming frame 1 is the first frame of the total action [shielding, plucking, etc.]):

Split-second Shield (optimal) - begins on Frame 15, can input Dsmash on 9+ (1-8 produces a spotdodge)

Pluck - begins on varying frames (see explanation below*), can buffer Dsmash normally (10 frames before the end, which is the entire pluck most of the time)

BONUS TIME: Simply releasing and Dsmashing (optimal) - begins on Frame 15, can input Dsmash from frame 7 onward (comes out as dash attack if input on 1-6)




*AN EXPLANATION:

The FAF on Olimar's pluck changes depending on the terrain. The Dsmash will start on the FAF if it is buffered properly.

FAFs:
120%- Frame 9
100%- Frame 9
80%-- Frame 10
75%-- Frame 10
70%-- Frame 11
40%-- Frame 14

Percentages reference the "PS" column of THIS POST.

I really really hope this all made sense. Please let me know if it didn't.

Also, what kelumhi said. I'm not sure of the specifics, but Dtilt is kind of mediocre to bad for comboing. That Falco had opportunities to get out.



I don't know. I played with a G&W for the longest time and I think it's a +2.
IIIRC, Denti believes it's an even match-up and he has UTD Zac to play with, so he might be someone to ask.
DENTI, NAMESEARCH IN HYER.

also i didnt really understand this at first, but bottom line is that the fastest way to stop and regain access to dsmash and my tilts/jab out of a run is pluck (assuming i have less than 6 pikmin) because its 9 frames or 13 on castle siege right? While shielding or just stopping is like 15 frames?

 

[Sky Pirate]

Yeah, the Dsmash would start on frame 9 for phases 1 and 2 of Castle Siege and frame 14 on the third, while it would start on 15 everywhere for the other two.
Pluck also gives you a larger window for buffering things, which is why I listed the input crap.

BTW. Since the only thing we know of that gets "70%" on that chart is "spikes" (which isn't on any normal stage and isn't practical to pluck on), you only have to worry about getting a single extra frame.
The only legal stages on which you get that extra frame are:

• Brinstar (platforms)
• Frigate
• Halberd (everything except the deck)
• Lylat
• PS1 Rock phase
• PS1 Fire Phase (the non-tree/house parts)
• PS2 Electric phase (the main platform part, not including the conveyor belts)
• PS2 Ice Phase (the icy parts)
• PS2 Ground Phase (the... ground)

And obviously the third stage of Castle Siege still gives you that uber-slow pluck...

 

[Tesh]

Any known viable uses for this? So far I'm liking that I can jab lock missed techs alot better (i didn't even know Oli had a jab lock).

I'm trying to figure out if you can pivot pluck cancel while going off of a ledge to slide of backwards. Or use the something similar to reverse jab locks in another direction.

 

[STEM]

What are instant boost pivot grab and uue?

 

[Dabuz]

uue is a typo, meant to write: "use" (Fixes)

Instant boost pivot grab is when you doing a sliding pivot grab out of the standing position.

 

[BSP]

Why do people bash the red pikmin so often? I know they suck in throws, but don't they do the most damage and second most knockback on any other pikmin attack?

 

[Tesh]

Pretty sure its the lack of superlative qualities. Purple has the power, yellow and blue take care of the range/priority.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Blues generally do the same/very slightly less damage on normal attacks.
Fair, Uair, Dair, Dsmash, UpB are the only moves where red does more damage sweetspotted (by either a difference of 1 or 2), whereas blues do 3 (Dthrow/Uthrow) or 7 (Fthrow/Bthrow) % more damage on throws and kill only slightly later on most non-throw moves.
Also, red Dthrow stops comboing at a lower percentage than the others (excluding purple because purple is too DUMB to combo).

EDIT: Last part not necessary.

 

[Dabuz]

Red aerials however have greater knockback than other aerials, except maybe purples. I'm actually not sure if there is a difference between red and purple aerials.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Unless I checked the wrong aerials:

Base KB

Red Fair - 19
Purple Fair - 19

Red Dair - 1E, A
Purple Dair - 1E, A
(second number is later in the attack)

Red Bair - 14
Purple Bair - 14

Red Uair - 46
Purple Uair - 46
(both for last hit only)

KBG

Red Fair - 58
Purple Fair - 5A

Red Dair - 64, 46
Purple Dair - 64, 46
(second number is later in the attack)

Red Bair - 5B, 5E
Purple Bair - 5B, 5F
(second number is sweetspot)

Red Uair - 5A
Purple Uair - 6E
(both for last hit only)

Exact same base knockback for every aerial, but with slightly higher knockback growth for purple on 3/4 of them. And as mentioned before, purple aerials don't suffer from reduced range like purple smashes.
Get wrecked, reds.

I'll recheck to make sure that I have the correct aerials later, in the middle of playing Tales of Graces F right now.
99% sure they were the correct ones, but I wrote them down in a slightly rushed manner and want to be sure.
Unless Fino or someone wants to do it for me?

 

[kelumhi]

but with slightly higher knockback growth for purple on 3/4 of them.

Define knockback growth.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Wow, just... demanding a definition.

From the Smash Lab's terms list:
Knockback Growth (KBG) [Universal] - Knockback that increases as a function including the victim’s damage.

From my (somewhat dated) understanding of knockback, base knockback is a fixed value that represents the knockback that a move would do at 0% (which never happens, as knockback is calculated based on the value after damage is given).
Knockback growth is the amount knockback increases as the opponent's percentage rises.
For exact formulae and such, you'd have to ask someone else. I could never seem to find anything more recent than Colin's posts from 2008.