Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion

[BRLNK88]

PM Link JOINS THE MELEE

 

[Jackie]

Hey guys, I'm a new Link main and I'm better than all my friends! I'm really good at using the move where he jumps and lands with his sword. I think I'm probably better than all the other players in Oregon!

JK, I'm not a noob. But am maining Link now, and I just want to know is there really ever a time where arrows are the best option? I'd take bombs, boomerangs, and positioning any day over a well-aimed arrow.

 

[Skler]

Anybody else with NTSC 1.0 like to super jump after a kill and then rain down bombs while avoiding their invincibility frames? It's actually semi-useful, but more importantly awesome and flashy.

Don't you end up taking about 5% when you super jump? Also, your opponent can always just wait on the platform. You have a good 5 seconds or so to stand there.

 

[huMps]

Space properly - stand still and take a laser to the HYRULE shield then dash attack/throw bomb. All Links should implament this into their falco game.

 

[Problem2]

Space properly - stand still and take a laser to the HYRULE shield then dash attack/throw bomb. All Links should implament this into their falco game.

Link doesn't hold his Hylian shield up while he's holding a bomb. I just want to let that be known before people get the wrong idea.

vs a Falco that camps with laser, I just platform camp and angle my projectiles towards him. If he jumps to the platform, drop down. Stay on a different horizontal from him.

 

[huMps]

Oh really? I just threw that out there without testing it, my bad. But I use the dash attack out of it alot.
Being on a different horizontal is a really good way to stay safe but unless you get right below him and start hitting up airs it's hard to do anything significant.
I actually like playing falco on FD where i look for combos out of bombs, grabs, and dash attack.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

I just want to point out that PowerSheild -> bomb throw works pretty well, it will give you a lot of fsmashes and fairs to launch falco off stage where we want him.

btw, I want some input on tips and tricks vs IC, atm all I do is trying to camp them and then kill nana at the rare occasions a bomb seperates them. Anything else, any tidbit of advice is appreciated, I dont want to loose to ICs.

 

[Jackie]

I like to build spacies to 30-40% safely with projectiles and footsies, then I go for a hard knockdown into techchase to KO.

 

[DuckPimp]

ive been experimenting with powershielding every enemy attack, using arrows and boomerangs that i jump over (for infinite range) to build up percent, and then i generally finish with f-tilt to rest

what do you guys think, out of 102pts?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think f-smash should be considered at low %s vs spacies. It's situational (you obviously can't just throw it around) but I think we should look for more spots to use it. It often gets them to 31% if you hit it and then u-tilt and d-smash become usable. It does a lot of the low percent work immediately.

 

[Skler]

I spam fsmash at low % vs any character who is aggressive. It has deceptive range, is safe to use on shields due to range and second hit potential, and does WTF levels of damage due to the guaranteed combo.

It's the only way to deal with spacies that are playing aggressive and smart enough to utilt your nairs.

 

[KirbyKaze]

It kind of has 'fake frame advantage' on shields because of the threat of the 2nd hit.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Link is now the C. Viper of melee. Balrog ain't passin nowhere.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Bomb combos into fsmash at low %, Im always phishing for that combo when they get back from KO. 40%+ damage and a frame disadvantage tech chase is certainly not that bad. Against falco you can get it from a PS laser. Fox has many things which we can CC Dsmash and then proceed with more Dsmash as it covers all tech options but fox rolling away, which should give you some terrain advantage. Also we can CC spacies get up attacks sub 70%ish(our damage) somewhere as long as they dont get both hits, pretty damn useful IMO.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I never thought of bomb into f-smash. That's kind of cool.

Hitting spacies with grounded bombs can be hard though (especially vs Fox).

I don't find the low percent game as hard vs Falco because he jumps more during his movement (to shoot things) but I find him harder overall because he's better at making me shield (shooting).

 

[Skler]

If Fox stays low to the ground spamming jabs is the best way to build percent. Fox has no answer to getting stabbed in the face except for trying to clank with your jab, in which case you crouch and start mashing dsmash.

Tech skill!

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

I have some tricks for landing bombs that I dont see many others use a lot.
- Throw them OoS, no extra lag as the bomb throw cancels the sheild.
- Turn around JC throw them.
- JC throw in general.
- Throw them upon landing, you can get different heights of the throw when you do it this way that can mind **** people that tries to space the throwing arc.

Hope that might give you some ideas.

 

[Skler]

Throwing right before you land does have an awesome trajectory that usually knocks people RIGHT IN THE FACE. My favorite way of bombing Fox is still just holding a bomb in your shield while they try to pressure you. Free grabs all day.

 

[Bigglestheman]

Not every day? I'm a little worried now.

 

[Skler]

Not every day? I'm a little worried now.

Nope, just all day. You only get it for one day, but it's for the WHOLE DAY.

 

[Ripple]

you have a 1 frame window to throw a bomb really low to the ground, on the next frame it throws the bomb really high. on all subsequent frames, it's normal

if you frame perfectly short hop>DJ bomb pull you only have 1 frame before you hit the ground. and that frame is the one where you can throw a high bomb

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Lol its that exact? It certainly doesnt feel like a two frame window to get the low or high pitched bomb.

 

[Bigglestheman]

Nope, just all day. You only get it for one day, but it's for the WHOLE DAY.

:saturn: Mr. Saturn approves!

 

[Onomanic]

How good is Link's WD OOS?

 

[Jackie]

About as good as his WD :/ It's good for very specific microspacing, but most often you're better off being patient in your shield for another option (upB or jump usually) or to just not let yourself be put into a situation where you need to shield in the first place. I emphasize that because Link is so limited against spacies' shield pressure.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Lol blu? didnt know you played melee.
Link has a slow jump and much traction resulting in a bad WD, it is useful but not as useful as it is with some other characters. Luckily link has the tools to avoid situations where he needs to shield. Using fairs, nairs and jabs you can play a safe and quick spacing game which leads to a lot of comboes.

 

[Onomanic]

Lootic! I've been playing Melee for years, I just haven't posted here is all.

Another question, how good is fair exactly? I goddamn love it but I feel like I could substitute it with nair and be a lot safer.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Lootic! I've been playing Melee for years, I just haven't posted here is all.

Another question, how good is fair exactly? I goddamn love it but I feel like I could substitute it with nair and be a lot safer.

they have different purposes nair is more of a defensive move you can use to get out of situations you dont like, it combos quite well, but many characters can shield grab it since it lacks that extra range and it can give some unwanted trade blows at some occasions.

Fair is good in a whole different way, it can be used to actually pressure opponents, mix it with some jabs (dont use third swing unless you hit and dont think you can use dsmash) and you will get a good shield pressure game outside of your opponents grab range, you can probably force a roll or a retreat in the worst case. Fair is also good as a launcher and that range can sometimes be the difference between landing a follow up or just watch link be too slow to follow up on anything he does.

When it comes to which ones safer the nair really isnt that safe, any disjointed move counters it, whereas the fair is countered by speed instead, the both are safe misses.

So basically if you can space your fairs and jabs you got yourself a mini-marth. So yeah fair is quite good.

 

[Bing]

I just wanted to say, to you legitimate Link mains, I solute you. You are all very brave and noble people and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

I just wanted to say, to you legitimate Link mains, I solute you. You are all very brave and noble people and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours.

Me brave? Doubt it.
Noble? Definitely not.

 

[Goast]

fastfall fair is my favorite move in links arsenal. Works soooo good to follow up projectiles. If you reverse fair you can almost garantee a JCGrab opportunity

 

[Skler]

Lootic! I've been playing Melee for years, I just haven't posted here is all.

Another question, how good is fair exactly? I goddamn love it but I feel like I could substitute it with nair and be a lot safer.

Fair is very good in the situations it is good in. Retreating fair is awesome, fair on shields is awesome, fair as a spacing tool in general is awesome.

Link's fair has great range, good knockback and does solid damage. It's just terrible when you aren't near the ground or 100% sure you'll hit because of that stupid second hit and huge lag.

I think it's one of Link's only moves where, if done perfectly on a shield, Link does not get a frame disadvantage.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Link gets no advantage neither, but that means that jabbing afterwards is safe.

 

[Skler]

Link doesn't gain an advantage on any of his moves, though. The best he's got is no disadvantage.

I like to pretend it's a trade off for having decent range, but then I look at Marth and get sad.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Marth has his cons too and link got more pros than just decent range. Its not brawl-link, lol.

 

[BRLNK88]

Link doesn't gain an advantage on any of his moves, though. The best he's got is no disadvantage.

I like to pretend it's a trade off for having decent range, but then I look at Marth and get sad.

I get sad... then remember there's Project M.

Marth's cons are much easier to deal with than Link's

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Counter-example:
Marth have trouble getting kills in some matchups, marth doesnt like projectiles, marths recovery is kinda easy to edgeguard. These things arent that easy to get around as a marth main. Peach can exploit all of these disadvantages, a lot.

 

[Goast]

link has a much better recovery imo and projectiles where marth has none so yeah I'm with you Lootic.

#keephopealive

 

[BRLNK88]

Counter-example:
Marth have trouble getting kills in some matchups, marth doesnt like projectiles, marths recovery is kinda easy to edgeguard. These things arent that easy to get around as a marth main. Peach can exploit all of these disadvantages, a lot.

Marth can have trouble killing, yes, but its worse for Link.
Link has some strong kill moves, but they're slow and predictable.
Peach is just one character, and the MU is still slightly in Marth's favor. If Marth can close on Peach he wrecks her. Kind of like when he faces Link, if he gives away space he can get eaten alive by projectiles, except Link is slow and has bad frame data, so its easier to close on him. Peach's nair > all of Link's OOS options.
Marth can competently deal with spacies on a consistent basis, Link can't. Marth is fast enough to deal with Falco's pew pew, pew pew shuts down Link's camping game and forces him to always be on a different level, big problem on stages like FD.

As for recovery, yes, Link has more options, but he falls much faster and has smaller jumps.
Once he's sent into tumble, he's basically screwed. No bomb jumps, no hookshot. Even when he does connect his grapple a lot of characters can just drop down and hit him out unless you're super quick.
Marth can at least get boosts from side-B if he's sent into tumble, even if his up-B is predictable.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Okay, so about bombs:
I really like jumping OOS and dropping them, even though that doesn't really come up that often. It's also fun to fast fall and then catch said bomb. Once again, pointless in many situations. I feel like dropping bombs it under-appreciated by Links in general. Dropping bombs is deceptive because it looks as though Link is doing nothing, making him a prime target. If they fall for it, you can punish because they just got smacked in the face by a bomb. If they don't go after you because of the bomb, then the bomb has done its job of hindering mobility anyway.

Forward air vs Nair:
SITUATIONAL AS FISH. There are very few moves that are just plain better than others. Fair and nair have different uses entirely. Fair does more knockback and damage and is disjointed. This makes it good, as Skler says, when it is good. Melee is amazing because of how much improvisation happens during a match. Knowing when fair is better than nair just comes with experimentation and reflecting on your play style.

Marth vs Link:
Yes, Marth in general is better than Link, but only in singles. In doubles, Link is a freaking Soraka wrapped up in heaps of Taric with a side of Singed. You going to kill my Fox? Taunt and cancel it with your returning boomerang as it whacks the back of their head. He never dies, never lets his teammate die, and spins right around, baby, right around, dead or alive.
Marth is just kinda awkward.