DuckPimp
Smash Ace
i dont know the specifics of your situation so i have no idea. plus, i dont actually play as link at all. i was just citing universal knowledge
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Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion
- Thread starter dablackpacman
- Start date
BairJew
Smash Journeyman
Oh gotcha, yeah I shouldn't have overlooked those points.
dablackpacman
Smash Ace
ay is Link's fully charged dsmash, is it stronger in the front of him then in the back. and have we gotten a better punish for rest miss then rang-charge fsmash-rang-fsmash?
WIDL
We Are Born
Can someone explain the Luigi matchup for me in general? Also what stages to pick. We do have several low tier tournaments here in Norway that allow for Luigi to be used. I feel I do better vs. him with Link rather than going Pikachu. I just lack overall knowledge.
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
KNOW YOUR PROJECTILE ZONING. Weegee's fast, but your projectiles keep him out. There are a few special zones that should be mentioned. Depending on how well the Weegee can vary the WD length, you may need to vary these distances.
From about half of FD on, throw rangs not necessarily to hit Weegee but to keep him from doing something you don't want him to. If he's on Dreamland and you want him on a platform so you can uair combo him, throw it horizontally so he jumps over it. If you want to avoid a waveland to d/b/nair off a platform, chuck it through the platform. Either that, or pull a bomb. From one third of FD to one quarter or so, you jumping rang to hit so you can either follow up or escape. Anything closer you retreat covered by a bomb, fair, or nair. Shielding is almost always bad because he can just sit on it SH double nairing.
As for stages, I tend to like Dreamland for everything because it's got plenty of space the rang can control and the edge is nicely hookshotable and edgetechable. FD's good because you know he's going to be spending his time on the ground and it's got plenty of room to control. Next would probably be FoD because Link can control it pretty well with his sword and rangs. Then I'd pick Yoshi's because Link can reach out pretty well with his sword even though he doesn't have a rang zone. I'd ban BF because Link's going to need to switch up his recovery, and BF just doesn't offer as many options and it's also a little small.
That was a bit of an essay. Please correct me where I'm wrong.
TL;DR: You have control of the match until you give it up. Rang and judge range well.
@BairJew
dtilt is sooooo bad. So bad. So f***ing bad. Dsmash. Yes, dtilt can combo, but it's so slow that they've probably DIed away to China by the time you can follow up. (heyperbole hyperbole). Dsmash goes into rangs or dashes or utilt or techchase based on % and predicted DI. My combos are soooo bad.
@DBPM
I just dair, upb, or charge dsmash. Dair can be fun because you can catch Jiggs from the spawn halo if you suicide DI.
Edit: Heyyyyyperbole...
lol
From about half of FD on, throw rangs not necessarily to hit Weegee but to keep him from doing something you don't want him to. If he's on Dreamland and you want him on a platform so you can uair combo him, throw it horizontally so he jumps over it. If you want to avoid a waveland to d/b/nair off a platform, chuck it through the platform. Either that, or pull a bomb. From one third of FD to one quarter or so, you jumping rang to hit so you can either follow up or escape. Anything closer you retreat covered by a bomb, fair, or nair. Shielding is almost always bad because he can just sit on it SH double nairing.
As for stages, I tend to like Dreamland for everything because it's got plenty of space the rang can control and the edge is nicely hookshotable and edgetechable. FD's good because you know he's going to be spending his time on the ground and it's got plenty of room to control. Next would probably be FoD because Link can control it pretty well with his sword and rangs. Then I'd pick Yoshi's because Link can reach out pretty well with his sword even though he doesn't have a rang zone. I'd ban BF because Link's going to need to switch up his recovery, and BF just doesn't offer as many options and it's also a little small.
That was a bit of an essay. Please correct me where I'm wrong.
TL;DR: You have control of the match until you give it up. Rang and judge range well.
@BairJew
dtilt is sooooo bad. So bad. So f***ing bad. Dsmash. Yes, dtilt can combo, but it's so slow that they've probably DIed away to China by the time you can follow up. (heyperbole hyperbole). Dsmash goes into rangs or dashes or utilt or techchase based on % and predicted DI. My combos are soooo bad.
@DBPM
I just dair, upb, or charge dsmash. Dair can be fun because you can catch Jiggs from the spawn halo if you suicide DI.
Edit: Heyyyyyperbole...
lol
BairJew
Smash Journeyman
^ haha alright so basically every opportunity which you could use dtilt you could basically use dmash or hundreds of other choices? haha
I don't know if this helps you at all since it's a Young Link match, but have a look here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn_2zKxMW3Y
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhFUrV_z3rA
We're not exactly expert players of either character (though I used to main Young Link back when I started out with competitive Melee... and back in '02 when the game was new lol)
Some things I noticed while playing this match up is the fact that uair juggling is really good because Luigi is incredibly slow in the air. Bombs and boomerangs do an excellent job of shutting down Luigi's movement options, since he's so reliant on his wavedash to move around.
Young Link also edgeguards Luigi pretty well, IMO. I don't really know if this is the case for regular Link (he might have trouble getting back on stage when edgeguarding), but nair is pretty decent for just pushing him away again. Also, if he's trying to sweetspot upB from below, you can actually just jump down with a non-fast falled down air and hit him like that. Mistiming it means you die, however.
Well anyway, at the very least I hope you can get some ideas from the videos that can apply to regular Link as well.
dablackpacman
Smash Ace
Malvm- Whats suicide DI?
Not gonna lie, me n my teammate got 6 stocked in doubles against S2J and Lovage, didnt have much fun wit it lol. Does dsmash cancel most attacks?
Not gonna lie, me n my teammate got 6 stocked in doubles against S2J and Lovage, didnt have much fun wit it lol. Does dsmash cancel most attacks?
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
I call it suicide DI, but I have no idea what real smashers call it. You know how survival DI is when you DI up and in? Suicide DI is when you're at %s when you know you're going to die and you DI away and down to die as quickly as possible off the side so you can come back in quickly and punish the rest as opposed to having to wait through a star KO and maybe getting a rang in before Jiggs wakes up. I've seen M2K do it with Shiek in a video somewhere. It was pretty fun to watch. Rest=>instant death=>respawn=>charged usmash=>revenge KO.
Wampa
Smash Rookie
How often do you find yourself grabbing an opponent with link because i love his grab game but i have a hard time figuring out when is a good time to grab
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
Don't grab against Jiggs unless you know for a fact that it's going to land. The jury is out as to whether or not it is useful to JC grab.
Wampa
Smash Rookie
i wasnt speaking of jiggs in particular if you want more specific then doc falco and sheik
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
When to grab in general? That, I can't really describe. Just don't miss. Grab to punish. When you know they're going to roll past you, grab. When the dorf misses and l-cancel, grab. When you can predict their tech, grab. And so on. Grab isn't really a reliable combo starter because it's a little on the dangerous side. It's a lot like trying to start a combo with a rest. A Fox even used the same punish on me.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
Problem2
Smash Champion
Well Link's grab can sometimes be his best punishing option and sometimes his only option to punish with. Link's d-throw generally leads to up-b, d-air, u-tilt -> d-air, or u-air (this all depends on characters and %).
You can basically use grab anytime your opponent uses an even somewhat laggy move on the ground and whiffs. Players that know the match-up won't give you this importunity often. Of course, you can also use grab any time you predict a sheild, but don't get greedy very often because if your opponent dodges or even simply jumps, your grab misses. For Link, it's better to just watch them shield and try to predic their OoS option or eventually go for a shield poke.
You can basically use grab anytime your opponent uses an even somewhat laggy move on the ground and whiffs. Players that know the match-up won't give you this importunity often. Of course, you can also use grab any time you predict a sheild, but don't get greedy very often because if your opponent dodges or even simply jumps, your grab misses. For Link, it's better to just watch them shield and try to predic their OoS option or eventually go for a shield poke.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
so basically, "it depends"
Problem2
Smash Champion
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
What I mean by "A Fox has even used the same punish on me" was "A Fox has even punished me with the same series of moves when I have missed a grab as when a Jigglypuff has missed a rest. A Fox lasered me and then upb." I said this (rather ineptly) to express how very, very punishable a missed grab is.
Sooooooooooo
yup.
Sooooooooooo
yup.
Problem2
Smash Champion
There should be an achievement for not getting 4 stocked by M2k's sheik.
If they're coming from the air and landing in front of you, just block > grab. It happens to me a lot.
I've got a question for you guys, though. How do I deal with a campy Link? I'm a Ness main, and my friend likes to go to FD a lot. How do I deal with a campy Link? He throws Bombs and Boomerangs, and fires Arrows. He also blocks when I get close. Help, please?
Problem2
Smash Champion
Shield grab only works if your opponent uses a laggy move or misses an L-cancel (our grab takes 11 frames to come out). Umm I don't know what to say to a Ness main to help though.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Stop maining Ness... lol.
Link should really be one of the least of your worries if you main him.
Link should really be one of the least of your worries if you main him.
Wampa
Smash Rookie
maybe try the charcter specific ness page
@ Problem2: I just have a hard time getting close for some reason. I never had this problem before. I start to choke whenever I play against my friends Link now. But I'll take your words and try to use them to my advantage.
@ BRLINK88: It's strange, because my other friends Fox is the least of my worries. This is probably just some phase or something.
@ Wampa: I'll look there. Thanks.
@ BRLINK88: It's strange, because my other friends Fox is the least of my worries. This is probably just some phase or something.
@ Wampa: I'll look there. Thanks.
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
If that guy's reliably keeping someone out with arrows he deserves to camp you.
The thing is, if you ask here, we're liable to start rooting for the Link.
FOX the least of your worries?!
LeBeouf's response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IXCK1EyP4s
The thing is, if you ask here, we're liable to start rooting for the Link.
FOX the least of your worries?!
LeBeouf's response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IXCK1EyP4s
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
If Fox was my problem, I would go to the Fox boards, not the Link boards. And you missed the part where I also stated bombs and boomerangs, along with the other stuff.
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
From the Way-too-long-for-anybody-to-read Ness guide:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2045869#post
Link ***
My Opinion:
Link is a character that in the right hands, can be very good. Unforetunately most people who use him end up spamming up-b, silly noobs. He can spam projectiles, has pretty strong attacks, and can kinda combo you. Unfortunately for Link, you can counter-spam projectiles, combo him easily, and edgegaurd him too.
First let's deal with his noob favorite moves, namely his dair and up-b. If you ever see a shielding link, never think that it's a free grab. He can up-b out of sheild. He can also spike you with up-b. You can see this ahead of time if you're recovering and you see link stand really close to the edge, but isn't edgehogging. Unless you sweetspot the edge, he'll use his up-b on you and spike you. If you do get it by it DI up and away. If you shield the beginning part of the move and you let go of the shield, the rest of the up-b won't hit you. This leaves link vulnerable for many many things. If you're quick enough you might get in a yyg.
His dair is also pretty good, dealing a massive amount of damage. He get's more damage if he hits you when he just takes his sword out, so try to get under link. The only time you want to be under him is when he already used his dair and is suffering the major lag that it causes. If you properly (emphasis on properly) space a uair you can hit him and not be hit by the sword. It has an upwards knockback, despite being a dair.
Link can get pretty annoying when he spams projectiles. I like to play a dodge-counter Ness when he does this. When he uses his boomerang jump over it and use the lag he gets from it to approach. When he sees you approaching he'll try to move back to be able to continue spamming projectiles. The boomering, by now should be coming back "to haunt you" as my friend likes to say. Dodge, sheild, jump, do whatever it is you need to do so that it doesn't hit you when it passes you and follow it towards Link. When it comes back to him, he'll have to grab it, leaving him vulnerable. The counter to this strategy is for Link to throw the boomerang off course so it won't come back to him, but can still hit you. Just sheild the bombs so that they bounce off your sheild. If you like pk fire you can try to pk fire them. Say a prayer if he uses his arrow since that is a setup for the YYG (insert angelic singing here). Jump over it when he fires it at you and yyg it. Just hope the link doesn't use another projectile against you. If you don't like the yyg or the arrow landed close to link, pk fire the arrow, starts a pillar and makes it harder for Link to approach you.
If you are out of range of Link's projectiles, you can pk thunder him. If he tries to approach you from far away tailwhip to slow down his approach, or just hit him with the head for some extra damage. If you see him crouching, that means that he is using his sheild (the one on his hand) to block your long range attacks. Hit him from behind with pk thunder if you're long ranging it since he is still vulnerable in the back. Please note that he can just use his regular shield (the bubble thing) if you do this, but it still weakens his sheild, which the Link was trying to avoid in the first place.
Ness can combo link with his uair, just be careful to not get hit by his dair. U-throw him into it and finish it off with a bair. Ness can also use his u-tilt too if the Link is bad at DI. Link is also pretty easy to tailwhip.
Edgegaurding link is pretty easy. If you like to meteor smash then use your dair when he is in the process of up-b'ing. You won't you hit the sword if you hit him properly. If you look, doesn't have to be closely, at Link when he uses his up-b in the air, you will see that the sword swipe is at an angle, with the swordswipe in the direction link is facing a little higher than in the direction Link isn't facing. Try to pop in a metor smash from behind Link for and easy K.O. You can also meteor smash him if he is jumping up from his hookshot grab the wall thing. If he tries to use his bomb jump you have three options: hit the bomb with pk Thunder, hit link with the head of pk thunder, or tailwhip Link to knock him away from the bomb. I prefer tailwhipping Link, but hitting him with pk Thunder sets him up for an edgegaurding combo and hitting the bomb is a near surefire way he won't be able to use it in his recovery. You get style points if you can tailwhip the bomb and hit link with it (if you're good enough tailwhip him then hit him with the head of pk Thunder). There are so many other things that Ness can do to edgegaurd Link, find the way you prefer and stick to it, I haven't mentioned all of them.
When Link tries to edgegaurd you he'll try to hit your pk Thunder with his bombs. Avoid this as this will leave you screwd. If you see a Link that does this then I have a theoretical thing that you can do, dodge so that when you come out of your dodge you'll get hit by his bomb, giving you some vertical height. I never tried this out and just thought of it right now, but I doubt it works. He'll also try to spike you with his up-b or hit you with your dair (yes I've met Links that can edgegaurd with dair and SURVIVE). Sweetspot the edge so you don't get hit with the spike.
Another YYG glitch that you can do with Link is if he misses one of his grabs, he has so much lag that you can yyg 'im. Some Hero Link turned out to be.
Little Hylain boy: Link, our Hero of Time, there is a little boy with psychic powers destroying my village! Help us!!!
Link: *runs away*
Suggestions from other people:
You can fair Link's bombs
~ from indie_dave
It's true that Link has the range and the projectiles in this match, but I think Ness actually deals with spam pretty well. He's fast on the ground, has a good shield-game, and DJCs allow you to manuever around projectiles better than most characters can.
Ness combos the f*ck out of Link, btw. DJC F-air to immediate SH F-air works very well. If you can hit with a DJC U-air at low%s Link will take a LOT of damage. He also might be the easiest character to KO with a DJC F-air -> Bat.
Link can combo Ness decently and absolutely ***** his recovery though, gotta give him that. At least Ness's bat outranges Link's Up + B recovery. You can also use D-tilts to screw up a non-sweetspot hookshot recovery. I'm not sure if a properly timed D-tilt will stop even a sweetspot hookshot.
You can aslo yyg glitch a link that missed his grab.
~from Reik
Videos:
N.OW(Ness) vs Amanda(Link) PokStad
http://www.veoh.com/videoDetails.html?v=e148505fAq5NRnP
Back to the Apple:
Yo yo yo-yo can yo-yo glitch yo Link when yo Link miss a grapple.
Soooo... PK Fire against a projectily Link, then?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2045869#post
Link ***
My Opinion:
Link is a character that in the right hands, can be very good. Unforetunately most people who use him end up spamming up-b, silly noobs. He can spam projectiles, has pretty strong attacks, and can kinda combo you. Unfortunately for Link, you can counter-spam projectiles, combo him easily, and edgegaurd him too.
First let's deal with his noob favorite moves, namely his dair and up-b. If you ever see a shielding link, never think that it's a free grab. He can up-b out of sheild. He can also spike you with up-b. You can see this ahead of time if you're recovering and you see link stand really close to the edge, but isn't edgehogging. Unless you sweetspot the edge, he'll use his up-b on you and spike you. If you do get it by it DI up and away. If you shield the beginning part of the move and you let go of the shield, the rest of the up-b won't hit you. This leaves link vulnerable for many many things. If you're quick enough you might get in a yyg.
His dair is also pretty good, dealing a massive amount of damage. He get's more damage if he hits you when he just takes his sword out, so try to get under link. The only time you want to be under him is when he already used his dair and is suffering the major lag that it causes. If you properly (emphasis on properly) space a uair you can hit him and not be hit by the sword. It has an upwards knockback, despite being a dair.
Link can get pretty annoying when he spams projectiles. I like to play a dodge-counter Ness when he does this. When he uses his boomerang jump over it and use the lag he gets from it to approach. When he sees you approaching he'll try to move back to be able to continue spamming projectiles. The boomering, by now should be coming back "to haunt you" as my friend likes to say. Dodge, sheild, jump, do whatever it is you need to do so that it doesn't hit you when it passes you and follow it towards Link. When it comes back to him, he'll have to grab it, leaving him vulnerable. The counter to this strategy is for Link to throw the boomerang off course so it won't come back to him, but can still hit you. Just sheild the bombs so that they bounce off your sheild. If you like pk fire you can try to pk fire them. Say a prayer if he uses his arrow since that is a setup for the YYG (insert angelic singing here). Jump over it when he fires it at you and yyg it. Just hope the link doesn't use another projectile against you. If you don't like the yyg or the arrow landed close to link, pk fire the arrow, starts a pillar and makes it harder for Link to approach you.
If you are out of range of Link's projectiles, you can pk thunder him. If he tries to approach you from far away tailwhip to slow down his approach, or just hit him with the head for some extra damage. If you see him crouching, that means that he is using his sheild (the one on his hand) to block your long range attacks. Hit him from behind with pk thunder if you're long ranging it since he is still vulnerable in the back. Please note that he can just use his regular shield (the bubble thing) if you do this, but it still weakens his sheild, which the Link was trying to avoid in the first place.
Ness can combo link with his uair, just be careful to not get hit by his dair. U-throw him into it and finish it off with a bair. Ness can also use his u-tilt too if the Link is bad at DI. Link is also pretty easy to tailwhip.
Edgegaurding link is pretty easy. If you like to meteor smash then use your dair when he is in the process of up-b'ing. You won't you hit the sword if you hit him properly. If you look, doesn't have to be closely, at Link when he uses his up-b in the air, you will see that the sword swipe is at an angle, with the swordswipe in the direction link is facing a little higher than in the direction Link isn't facing. Try to pop in a metor smash from behind Link for and easy K.O. You can also meteor smash him if he is jumping up from his hookshot grab the wall thing. If he tries to use his bomb jump you have three options: hit the bomb with pk Thunder, hit link with the head of pk thunder, or tailwhip Link to knock him away from the bomb. I prefer tailwhipping Link, but hitting him with pk Thunder sets him up for an edgegaurding combo and hitting the bomb is a near surefire way he won't be able to use it in his recovery. You get style points if you can tailwhip the bomb and hit link with it (if you're good enough tailwhip him then hit him with the head of pk Thunder). There are so many other things that Ness can do to edgegaurd Link, find the way you prefer and stick to it, I haven't mentioned all of them.
When Link tries to edgegaurd you he'll try to hit your pk Thunder with his bombs. Avoid this as this will leave you screwd. If you see a Link that does this then I have a theoretical thing that you can do, dodge so that when you come out of your dodge you'll get hit by his bomb, giving you some vertical height. I never tried this out and just thought of it right now, but I doubt it works. He'll also try to spike you with his up-b or hit you with your dair (yes I've met Links that can edgegaurd with dair and SURVIVE). Sweetspot the edge so you don't get hit with the spike.
Another YYG glitch that you can do with Link is if he misses one of his grabs, he has so much lag that you can yyg 'im. Some Hero Link turned out to be.
Little Hylain boy: Link, our Hero of Time, there is a little boy with psychic powers destroying my village! Help us!!!
Link: *runs away*
Suggestions from other people:
You can fair Link's bombs
~ from indie_dave
It's true that Link has the range and the projectiles in this match, but I think Ness actually deals with spam pretty well. He's fast on the ground, has a good shield-game, and DJCs allow you to manuever around projectiles better than most characters can.
Ness combos the f*ck out of Link, btw. DJC F-air to immediate SH F-air works very well. If you can hit with a DJC U-air at low%s Link will take a LOT of damage. He also might be the easiest character to KO with a DJC F-air -> Bat.
Link can combo Ness decently and absolutely ***** his recovery though, gotta give him that. At least Ness's bat outranges Link's Up + B recovery. You can also use D-tilts to screw up a non-sweetspot hookshot recovery. I'm not sure if a properly timed D-tilt will stop even a sweetspot hookshot.
You can aslo yyg glitch a link that missed his grab.
~from Reik
Videos:
N.OW(Ness) vs Amanda(Link) PokStad
http://www.veoh.com/videoDetails.html?v=e148505fAq5NRnP
Back to the Apple:
Yo yo yo-yo can yo-yo glitch yo Link when yo Link miss a grapple.
Soooo... PK Fire against a projectily Link, then?
ledge cancel'ing links up b
i was mashing buttons the other day and i ledged cancelled links up b, it was awesome! too bad it doesnt knock the enemy away as much as a regular up b
it does a lil hit tho.. so!
is it worth doing?
its knock them away for a bit, plus u grab the ledge, or is this just plain showy.
i dont see any vids of it, so im guessing its plain showy.
what do you guys think of links Edge cancelled up B?
i was mashing buttons the other day and i ledged cancelled links up b, it was awesome! too bad it doesnt knock the enemy away as much as a regular up b
it does a lil hit tho.. so!
is it worth doing?
its knock them away for a bit, plus u grab the ledge, or is this just plain showy.
i dont see any vids of it, so im guessing its plain showy.
what do you guys think of links Edge cancelled up B?
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
I do it when I'm running to try and get an edgehog and don't have time to turn around any other way. There are some videos of it, but it's pretty dangerous because if you screw it up, you're sitting there spinning on the edge, falling to your doom, or flying into nowhere land. It's a bit like edge canceled eggs for Yoshi except less useful.
Not very useful at all, but it's another tool you can use when you see an opportunity.
Not very useful at all, but it's another tool you can use when you see an opportunity.
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
I just quoted from the Ness boards...
Bill_the_Duck
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
- Messages
- 48
Question... I've seen Links do this thing where they like... place a bomb on the floor? This might be a dumb question, but how do you do that without it exploding? I've done it before, but only if I get hit or something and drop the bomb and for some reason it doesn't explode
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
you gotta be jumping thru a platform and drop it so that it wont fall very far and explode.
Bill_the_Duck
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
- Messages
- 48
so you fall through and press z?
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
or jump up through it
Vonzar the Soulrender
4th Dimensional Horror
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2008
- Messages
- 819
How can I learn to combo with Link?
I have my stage control down really well with Link but my up close game is not as good. How can I improve it?
I have my stage control down really well with Link but my up close game is not as good. How can I improve it?
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
play more.
more people more characters more styles.
and really think about what options you have vs them and what options they have vs you. try to incorporate them into your gameplay.
its a long process.
play more.
more people more characters more styles.
and really think about what options you have vs them and what options they have vs you. try to incorporate them into your gameplay.
its a long process.
play more.
huMps
Smash Ace
You don't have to be going through platforms to set down a bomb. All you have to do is release it as close to ground as possible, and you can do it anywhere. I find it easiest to do while short hopping backwards and pressing Z at the last moment before I land. You can do it while WDing back to ledge hog too, which is pretty difficult/pointless/awesome!
Bigglestheman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 136
You can also watch some videos to get an idea of what you could do.