Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion

[DuckPimp]

Falcon is worse than Fox is almost every way.

i just might sig this



why is sheik NOT a good teammate though?

and i'd like to hear your opinion on marth in teams (all with link as a partner i mean)


this is all for when we inevitabley team, malvm. still will probably just go falcon

 

[UNO EMOJI]

.,..........................................

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Are you going to go over and post "I wuv all you falcon mains and your smexy hunnybuns"?
I feel so... betrayed....
*sobs in corner like Marth* (is joke)
I think it's because Shiek doesn't have a move that'll kill as well as Fox's bair/uair or the knee. The fair's good, but I think it's range isn't too great and the short hop is stupid. Usmash is good tippered, but it still doesn't kill as well as Fox's stuff and is tougher to land. Her moves seem less killy and more comboy in general. Link gets pressured too easily, so the mobility to disengage with one guy to smack the other with cucoo-caliber retaliation so Link can get out of shield without either getting punished too hard for doing so is necessary. Unless I'm misinterpreting Skler here.
Marth's got fsmash, dair, and kewl movement. Unfortunately, he still gets a lot of kills by edgeguarding, so maybe not so good, though Link is good at being a meatshield with the nairs, bombs, and survivability. I think I'll try to experiment Saturday.

 

[Skler]

Sheik is much less mobile than Fox, she doesn't have a great kill move from anywhere (she has a few GOOD kill moves, but no fox usmash/uair) and her combos generally take a while. Just not as good as Fox!

The reason movement is so important for a teammate of Link is that Link can do things that seem stupid (spam spin attack) in order to get punished so his teammate will hit the punisher. Link is heavy and has a great recovery, he'll generally survive these hits. Common teams characters generally lack Link's survivability and will get killed by the fox usmash.

A smart Link knows when he'll survive a punish or not and whether or not his teammate can punish. Good team Link's set up their partner for their best moves as often as possible by presenting openings and trying to help their partner via projectiles while keeping the other person at bay (often via nairplane). Fox is just really good at working with this style.

Marth isn't that great of a Linkmate either. His movement leaves much to be desired (he can't power through an enemy to help like Fox can) and, while his kill moves are awesome, they generally require a little bit more time to set up. Plus, Marth's punishments hit EVERYWHERE. EVERYWHERE includes Link.

My team-marth hating may be due to personal bias, but I just don't like him in teams.

A smart Link knows when he'll survive a punish or not and whether or not his teammate can punish. Good team Links set up their partner for their best moves as often as possible by presenting openings and trying to help their partner via projectiles while keeping the other person at bay (often via nairplane). Fox is just really good at working with this style. He's super fast, has a great kill move that he can do directly out of his dash and is amazing at putting pressure on people and winning 1v1s (which should be easy because you're focusing on putting yourself between Fox and opponent #2, right?)

Link is best when supporting his teammate indirectly and stopping intervention. He's also good at ruining opponents' combos from really far away. What is Fox's worst weakness? Easy to combo.

All signs point to Fox.

 

[Teczer0]

Hey Skler, I was playing Link today and I had a really difficult time racking up damage because many of his faster moves seems to have little knockback.

Can anyone gimme a quick list of moves that they would use to rack up percent that isn't projectiles?

 

[Skler]

It's a pretty short list.

1. Triple jab.
2. Nair!
3. Bair

The triple jab is his only fast move on the ground and is extremely difficult to punish if it connects due to the third jab's knockback. Other than that Link really does rely on projectiles and slower moves (utilt). The dsmash might qualify, but its lack of knockback and decent amount of lag generally mean you'll get hit back if you use it at very low percents.

The nair is just all sorts of awesome for everything, and the bair is ok due to speed and the difficulty of punishing it.

 

[Teczer0]

How do you use nair to rack up percent Skler?

I've been trying to generally mess around with it. I've been using a lot of low nairs on shield, FH nairs into projectiles if nothing happens or just nair again. Or sometimes FH nair into spacing a fair which generally seems to fail me.

I've been doing a lot of like low nairs on the back of the shield into uptilt as a trick that seems to sorta work okay.

 

[Skler]

Sometimes people jump out of the shield to catch you during nair spam, but little do they know you have a secret weapon! More nairs.

I dunno, it just sort of hits a lot. Death by a thousand cuts and all that.

The nair is fast, has good knockback for its speed and lag, and it lasts forever. It's about as good of a damage builder as Link has (note: Link has no actual good damage builders to compete with it). Link's percent building strategy revolves around hitting people with projectiles and spaced slower moves, along with decent throw combos if you can pull a grab off.

Actually, I haven't really stressed how good jabs are.

Example: Fox can't SH approach Link if you just spam the first jab over and over again. Neither can most of the cast, come to think of it.

The problem with the jab is it's pretty much only a defensive move. You can just it to bother shields, but it gives you some disgustingly large frame disadvantage.

 

[Teczer0]

Very interesting.....

I'll keep that in mind <33333

If my Link gets decent will you team with me for double link shenanigans for friendlies or MMs?

 

[Skler]

I'm sure you're plenty good already, Mr. ZeroTec. Link is...well he's not that hard.

I am though.

Hard.

For you.

Oh, I meant to say yes. Always and forever.

 

[UltimaScout]

How do you use nair to rack up percent Skler?

I've been trying to generally mess around with it. I've been using a lot of low nairs on shield, FH nairs into projectiles if nothing happens or just nair again. Or sometimes FH nair into spacing a fair which generally seems to fail me.

I've been doing a lot of like low nairs on the back of the shield into uptilt as a trick that seems to sorta work okay.

It's very effective to literally hover over people with nairs. Many people don't understand his hitbox and if you do it at such a % where they get knocked over from it you can actually pressure people into keeping in their shields. If you cross them up with your 2nd jump nair, you can utilt them out of their shield. His utilt is one of his quicker moves and just dominates characters like falcon who rely on out of shield game.

 

[erbanez]

Can someone explain to me why link-peach is considered such a good matchup?

 

[UltimaScout]

Can someone explain to me why link-peach is considered such a good matchup?

He can combo her like crazy, once she's in the air she has no way back down and she's floaty? she dies at like 80 from dair. He can camp projectiles to force the approach.

 

[Skler]

Good matchup? More like "evenish" matchup. Easily one of Link's best matchups against a character that can actually win tournaments.

Peach ***** Link's shield harder than any other character and shuts his options down out of shield fairly well too (only viable option while in shield vs Peach = roll and pray). Aside from the terrible shield destruction she can edgeguard Link decently if she knows what she's doing (protip: Very few peaches actually know what they are doing to edgeguard Link) and she combos Link fairly well.

Link can keep up with her, spam well and prevent her from pulling turnips. His range also gives him a solid chance, though peach has the ability to hit through Link's nair like it's her job. Probably the only matchup where the nair shouldn't be your most used move.

With that said, yeah it's about even.

Edit: Projectile camp doesn't work so hot against Peach. She'll pull turnips forever until she gets the death turnip, and that is a game changer. You're better off never letting her pull safely by keeping close and filling the air. Long distance spam gives Peach time to get awesome things.

 

[Octave]

Skler, do you have any more recent videos than RoM2? I can only find you vs Mango in pools on youtube for that and everything else is 2+ years old. I learn better from example than reading

 

[Skler]

My most recent videos are still about a year old, but here they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx9K4QiwU1A (vs Falco)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rADQTR0h8lU (vs Falcon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kevRMTPus&feature=related (vs Falcon)

There are some good examples of both what to do and not to do in those.

I've also got some Pound 4 team videos that are up if you want to see how I do Link in teams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qt7nWBKHJc&feature=related (teaming with Doc, Skler + Pine vs PP + LOZR)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4MCMrRSEc&feature=related (teaming with Peach, Skler + Pine vs PP + LOZR)

 

[Octave]

Awesome! I actually gleaned quite a bit from those vids You da bess Skler

 

[Teczer0]

Skler, me and Sleepyk met at otakon and had the most fantastic link ditto. You would have been so proud

 

[Skler]

Record that **** next time! Also you better give have given him a hug for me, and he had better of done the same.

 

[DuckPimp]

waaaaiiit i might have played you guys and not even known it.

i was the white guy with the luigi hat

 

[Octave]

Just got a **** ton of Link practice and NONE of it was recorded. We had an HD recording thing and everything and we didn't record for the 26 hours we were playing D:

Apparently I improved, though. Gonna try to get some footage next time.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Is Kongo Jungle 64 a good counterpick stage against Fox? I was playing around with it and it looks like it hurts Fox more than Link. It's a big stage, and the only way to escape is up, so lasers don't work as well. If Fox circle camps, he goes above Link, which is bad, and if he doesn't, Link has a chance, right? The little dippy thing in the middle means that the lasers are even more limited. Plus, firefox means that Fox pretty much has to fly straight into a spin attack because there aren't any walls to slide on or tech off of. Finally, the nair has a lot more space to play with. Is it just that Link ends up off of the stage a lot more than Fox, so the firefox thing is irrelevant and the hookshot thing too detrimental or am I just being stupid?

 

[Octave]

I feel like at 64 there being no walls severely limits Link's recovery. If the fox is any good he's going to be landing offstage shines and there won't be anything you can really do about those. And couldn't Fox aim firefox to hit Link at the bottom of his spin (where Link is actually spinning in place) and still recover?

 

[Teczer0]

Yea, I'm not too sure about KJ64 for a link CP.

Fox is great on that stage. He can circle camp, mix up his recoveries, and still KO at decent percentages. He can also very easily edgeguard Link even if Link has the option to go high or low. Not only that but he can recover under link against his spin attack, or onto the opposite side of link and actually punish Link for edgeguarding by teching the spin attack into the stage.

All Fox loses is upsmash KOs but he can work without those. Link doesn't seem to gain much.

 

[Skler]

Fox circle camps the living crap out of Link on Kongo Jungle 64. He's too quick to get with the upstab.

If he isn't circle camping he can still edgeguard you really, really well on it. Link loses everything but his upB for recovering, and his upB recovery isn't very good.

The best CP against Fox is FoD. Failing that, take him to Battlefield.

Edit: Link does gain easier edgeguards against Fox, along with not worrying about the usmash as much, but Link gets hurt pretty bad by the stage.

 

[DuckPimp]

fox recovers just fine on kj64. in fact, i would counterpick that against a link if i played fox

 

[MALVM MALVM]

I just thought of it because I started doing a lot better against Alchool on it, so I started thinking about it. I think it may just be him more than the stage. I thought the spinny and really high platforms might throw a monkey wrench in a Fox's game. I just figured that Fox is pretty dead if he's under the stage; his recovery is a slow straight line without walls, and that's just asking for a spin attack. If Fox is far away, nair. If he's close and tries to go straight up to get around you, spin attack. If he's going throught the stage, spin attack. The only worry is if he's coming in from above, but then that's just more nair or spinspam.
Yeah, I am seeing the circle camping more now, and I definitely feel how the hookshot's essential for Link's recovery. I can see how a Fox could be disrupted by the hight of the platforms, but I see that better Foxes wouldn't be. "If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat" and all that. Dagnabbit, Duckpimp.

 

[SYickX]

When im playing a fox, generally the low surface of the stage is very important.
As soon as fox starts shining, DI and a well placed roll are basically the only means of escape
So, it seems like most of the discussion has been about recovery
the point of link v fox, is that fox doesnt recover, if he can, then you have bigger issues than stage
The strange surface of jungle will influence how link escapes shines as well as how fox can shine
So basically, whichever player is more used to the stage will have the advantage low
Fox can got up on the outside platforms, but they are much higher than the 3 platform deal
the offensive options arent quite as good from the high platforms so i would guess that most foxes cant use them particularly well (other than for stall)
the moving platforms are great for link (edge cancel, platform drop nair/uair, and bombs make this area dangerous for most characters) but your link has to be very tight and used to those platforms

from all of this, i think the interior of the stage slightly benefits a fox who is used to the stage

i personally love using the low platforms of triform stages for combos into fair/nair

i would much rather play brinstar, and maybe cruise (im not sure how well fox could run around, and that low ceiling area could be bad, lots of open ground to kill fox tho)

finally, the loss of the hookshot is just too much against fox, there is a point slightly before links up-b where he is very vulnerable, this point is also a great spot to airdodge into hookshot

without that extra option, i just dont feel capable of recovering

 

[Skler]

It's true, edgeguarding Fox isn't particularly hard. He shouldn't be making it back regardless of stage. Just getting on the edge and nairing everything he does works pretty well as an edgeguard, so does chucking a boomerang at his illusion path when he's at the right height then covering the firefox with whatever you want.

The possibilities are endless with Fox off the stage!

 

[Superspright]

Yo, I know it's been a while since anyone's posted in here, but I was wondering about bomb-sliding. Seems that some bombs will slide, and others won't. Or perhaps there is a technique. I don't know. Seems they always slide to the left though, but perhaps some do go right? Anyone know what I am talking about?

 

[Cherished Doll]

Yo, I know it's been a while since anyone's posted in here, but I was wondering about bomb-sliding. Seems that some bombs will slide, and others won't. Or perhaps there is a technique. I don't know. Seems they always slide to the left though, but perhaps some do go right? Anyone know what I am talking about?

I believe bombs only slide when the stage is angled -J666

 

[Skler]

I think he might be talking about the bomb slide glitch. There's some video explaining it somewhere, but any bomb can do it under certain conditions, and I believe it is omnidirectional.

You can't use the word omnidirectional every day, but man does it feel good.

 

[rd1023]

I know I might seem like a total noob asking for advice, but when I try to hookshot onto a ledge, I seen to airdoge too quickly and my hookshot misses by inches. Any tips?

 

[Problem2]

I know I might seem like a total noob asking for advice, but when I try to hookshot onto a ledge, I seen to airdoge too quickly and my hookshot misses by inches. Any tips?

Find some time to practice it in training mode or vs lv1 computers. Jump off stage backwards and wait after you airdodge, then hookshot. You can actually wait pretty late before you hookshot, so long as you don't start doing the flashy helpless state. (if I recall correctly)

 

[cjugs]

it is hard to edguard a fox on kj64 if he recovers high if low no it's cake but he'll never be down there except once or twice a match and he can literally circle camp you on that stage the entire time

 

[cjugs]

is there any good follow up for after you jab

 

[Skler]

Dsmash, or more jabs. Triple jab if it hits and illusion stab if they shield aren't too bad.

 

[BairJew]

Comboing with CC'd dtilt into good combos it works with certain characters and not so much with others, is their a certain aspect of that move I am misunderstanding?

 

[DuckPimp]

certain characters fall faster or slower, people DI, at certain percents it may not work... basic combo stuff. moves are the same, but characters have different properties (weight, fall speed etc) that affect their trajectories

 

[BairJew]

Wow can't believe I overlooked that. But isn't it still possible to combo those characters just at higher % correct?