Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]

[ProtoBass]

Byron your Link is amazing man. I'm a huge Zelda fan, so I've always tried my hand at maining Link with each Smash installment..but each time, I hit...like...this wall..a barrier to potential greatness. With Brawl+ I feel like that wall has finally been torn down. The possibilities just seem so endless now. I'm gonna take my time and get really good with him. Your videos inspired me.

 

[LH621]

You think so? A lot of my opponents Tech in place so I guess I'm using Dair a little more. I find the winddown to dash attack more punishable though.

I guess it sorta depends on the sitaution, spacing, and timing. Alot of times, if u try to time the tech punish with a dash attack, u end up whiffing b/c it comes out early, so u have to compensate for that (ideally, u want to hit from the dash attack to land late so that its easier to combo afterwards). Dair is much more reliable in that respect (more reliable punishing option), but in exchange, Dair doesnt really guarantee anything after it (at low percents, sometimes u can get a Fair but the timing is extremely tight) whereas the dash attack does. Its just a matter of what u want to get outta the punish.

Byron your Link is amazing man. I'm a huge Zelda fan, so I've always tried my hand at maining Link with each Smash installment..but each time, I hit...like...this wall..a barrier to potential greatness. With Brawl+ I feel like that wall has finally been torn down. The possibilities just seem so endless now. I'm gonna take my time and get really good with him. Your videos inspired me.

thats really great to hear . Hopefully you can get your link up to that level u want him to be at. Im hoping that i can continue to figure out new things with him as well as time goes by.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

After seeing one of LH621's vids, I feel kind of inferior. I have a few vids I wanna show-off, all against Zero Suit Samus, played by Phillyrider807.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSvhRRX0ooI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6xoOhH2NHQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aihqxtBpbxM

The quality isn't top tier, but it's Brawl+. It's Link+. It's TUSM+. You can't go wrong. Critiques would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[Swordplay]

TUSM. Some feedback.......

You grab to much. Link has a terrible grab and throw game compared to other characters. D-throw was improved with Links new **** physics but its still one of his weaknesses.

Cut down on that. Edge guard with the zair more, and learn to DACIT ( DAC with an Item) in order to better handle those armor pieces and your bombs. You could also JCT them.

Thats all I got.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

I know I grab a lot, it's only because I love his down throw. And ZSS is really hard to edge guard, or I'm just playing wrong. I mean, did you see the arrow gimp in the third vid? It was so good. Anyway, yeah, I'll try to cut down on the grabbing, and the armor pieces I focus too hard on. I don't know why, I guess I just want them out of the way as soon as possible.

 

[Swordplay]

1st. D-throw is good with Links new physics, he probably won't need a throw code as he is plenty good. But his other options are better so use those.........(not to mention I'm seeing you use F-throw, a terrible throw unless you intend to chase with something like a DAC)


you need to zair edge guard.

let go of the edge and press z twice to instantly regrab it. Think about it this way.

brawl+ ledges have 28 invincibility frames. and you can speed hug once and zair edge guard 3 times.

28*4=122 frames of invincibility.= OVER 2 SECONDS!!!!!!!!

Not only that, you have invincibility getting up off the ledge increasing ledge invincibility beyond 122!!!!

ITS TO **** TO DESCRIBE





arrow gimps are good but not as consistent as zair edge guarding........

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

OK, now I know what you mean. I didn't read it correctly at first, but I gotcha now.

 

[Rouenne]

2 seconds of invicivility? Sounds good but how do you use them properly?

 

[Popertop]

I thought the Zair regrab trick wasn't that reliable because if your opponent has a good up b they can time it to hit you out of it.

 

[Swordplay]

2 seconds of invicivility? Sounds good but how do you use them properly?

Start about 1/2 a second to when you think your opponent might recover.

I thought the Zair regrab trick wasn't that reliable because if your opponent has a good up b they can time it to hit you out of it.

If you let your invincibility frames run out ( you don't regrab before invincibility frames run out).......Keep in mind, this works WAY better with Zair characters than tether up-b's

If your opponent has a "slow up b" this may or may not happen. you may find yourself burning through invincibility frames a little faster but you can still get consecutive invincibility frames.The thing with this is against slow up-b's I believe there is 1 frame of break in between each zair re grab where the opponent can re grab no matter how precise you are. It's almost an instant regrab but I don't think it is (very close though) I need frame data.........

Now if your opponent has an up-b to where they can time and hit you out of it, it is probably a slow up-b of this type. In this case flying dairs and nairs will work better. However the zair trick is extremely reliably against many many characters.

Don't know where you heard this but its extremly reliable, if you do it right you can get 2 seconds of consecutive invincibility frames before you have to get off the edge and allow your opponent to recover.


The only real risk is that I think there is a 1 frame where they can regrab and with and no ASL to benefit the recoverer..........

THIS TECHINIQUE IS EVEN MORE RELIBABLE IN B+!!!!!!!

 

[MagmarFire]

Ah, so that's probably the reason why Zair edgeguarding wasn't working for me those few times... Darn one-frame window... I guess I really need to stop trying to regenerate my invincibility when they're practically hugging the ledge at the same time.

 

[Rouenne]

I've been testing the comboing lately, sometiimes when I use the double hit of the FSmash and use the running attack my opponent is sent behind Link so it's easy to hit with BAir, so why not add a little more power to the second kick in BAir. I mean, the comboing with FAir is pretty good and many times a killer, so why not the same chance on the other side?

 

[LH621]

I've been testing the comboing lately, sometiimes when I use the double hit of the FSmash and use the running attack my opponent is sent behind Link so it's easy to hit with BAir, so why not add a little more power to the second kick in BAir. I mean, the comboing with FAir is pretty good and many times a killer, so why not the same chance on the other side?

1) when you say "add a little more power"...do you mean damage, or knockback?

2) Why should Bair have similar benefits as Fair?

 

[Swordplay]

1) It doesn't matter

2) It shouldn't

3) Link is fine.

4) More of my write up analysis time........

Approaching

Zair

When able to use, Zair is Links best approach. It starts combo’s, sets up finishers, and is extremely safe because it is extremely disjointed and auto cancels. It’s only problem is that it is extremely hard to connect and almost not worth using on any character smaller than average height. But it does work well against big and tall characters. Use this move a lot against characters like Snake, Bowse,r DK, D3, Ike, Marth, Samus, ZSS, Ganondor,f and more people of that general height. Against characters like Olimar, Pikachu, Squirtle and more, you’ll need a backup plan.

When Zair fails

When Zair doesn’t work you have to find something else. Links ground approach while rewarding is often to risky and punishable. You should use the ground approach only after followed by an air approach to reap the combo rewards with minimal risk. Why? It is because Link’s SHFF game is amazing! A combination of Jab, Bair, Fair and Nair are your best options at this point. Besides projectiles which small characters can often avoid, Fair is your best spacing tool. Opponents fear the 1st slash because it can set up for jab cancel combos and the 2nd slash is feared for its knockback. Not only that but Fair has good priority too. Nair is perhaps one of Links best approach options but it’s is more of an offensive tool than defensive, though it can be used for defense. Still, it is important to use this move often. Nair is easier to land than a 1st slash Fair and a weak Nair also sets up jab cancel combos. Jab is also really good due to its speed and jab cancel abilities but unfortunately you can’t really move while doing it. Bair is probably one of your best move to use. Like Fair, it has great priority. It spaces nice, is very defensive, safe due to how fast it is and extremely easy to use. Not only that, but you can still craq walk out of it and get momentum and projectile combo’s from it from the 2nd hit. The first it is good to, it’s just like the 1st hit of Fair but harder to use because your facing the other way. Try a U-tilt or spin attack out of it.

Overall, you want to use Fair and mostly bair to form your defensive spacing wall and Nair and jabs if you ever want to go on offense. Keep in mind that Link changes defense game play into offensive combo’s very efficiently. Take advantage of his range and projectiles by playing a defensive game. Force your opponents to break your wall and when they fail, **** them. If they succeed, switch it up and try offensive gameplay.

 

[Rouenne]

1) when you say "add a little more power"...do you mean damage, or knockback?

2) Why should Bair have similar benefits as Fair?

1. I mean knockback, right now it sends the opponent too far to continue comboing and too close to be a killer.

2. Not exactly the same thing, just talking that since his FAir got improved the BAir can also get a share of buffs on it's own right.

 

[Swordplay]

1. Bair was improved already in the older codeset and its fine now....

2. why should 1 move be improved because another move was improved

 

[Kief]

I actually loved bair before it got changed. Since it's been changed i've found myself hitting the first kick and not the second for some reason. Weird. What exactly was the change to it again? I see the numbers part, but I don't really know what changed about it cus i'm a bit of a code noob. >_>

 

[Swordplay]

I actually loved bair before it got changed. Since it's been changed i've found myself hitting the first kick and not the second for some reason. Weird. What exactly was the change to it again? I see the numbers part, but I don't really know what changed about it cus i'm a bit of a code noob. >_>

Its not bair...Its the new physics......


Links SH is at 1.05 so his SH is slightly higher to compensate for his extra gravity, that way he is in the air a little longer.

In every single situation, this new gravity fits him better ESPECIALLY for follow ups. His zair game also remained unchanged.

This is the only part where the new physics hurt Link but do not fear. You can still ****. Combo from that 1st bair hit into a spin attack!!!! or something.......


If you want to hit with both hits of Bair, start it a little later after you get off the ground, that way the 1st hit come just before the apex and the 2nd kick comes just after the apex.


I wouldn't change the physics for anything, they are finally good. You can follow up and with Links FF and long lasting U-air, you can even outlast airdodges sometimes. These new physics make Link ****.

So from now on. Think of bair more as a spacer to cover Links blind spot (behind him).

 

[LH621]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuH9gWI253Y&feature=channel_page

The joys of skyworld...

 

[Rouenne]

1. Bair was improved already in the older codeset and its fine now....

2. why should 1 move be improved because another move was improved

Really? Where is the new codeset?

2 It was just a comparison man, why everybody makes a fuss about it?

 

[Demacrez]

Well, I've been playing as Link the whole time I've gotten Brawl+ and I can't help but think his utilt is probably too strong. Now I've been mostly using it on CPUs and I realize how extremelly powerful it is. I KO'ed a Luigi when he was at 0% (of course the hit put him at 12%) and his second jump nor his recovery helped him get back up to the stage. I like the move but I don't use it too often and I sometimes think it's overpowering.

 

[Swordplay]

U-tilt huh??????

you sure we are playing the same codeset?

 

[Demacrez]

Whoops! I meant the d-tilt... Down Tilt, right? Ha ha, noob moment.

 

[Swordplay]

First off Its much harder to hit it against humans than CPU's.
and
The onstage benifits it provides Link are simply....AMAZING. (For this reason, many players don't want it changed)

The WBR has been dealing with the subject a long time. I'm sure they'll know what to do. It has been mentioned it before so don't worry, they have a lot of insight, info, and data on the issue and they will make the right decision. It won't be removed, but at most, they may do something similar to what happened with pit. But because Pits was so much faster, I find that scenario 50/50

(By the way I really like your sig, even if it is against a CPU)

Really? Where is the new codeset?

2 It was just a comparison man, why everybody makes a fuss about it?

Just look at Dema's sig.............thats why bair ***** (COMBOS) (Yes I know its a CPU and there is no DI. It was a spur of the moment example)

 

[Demacrez]

Yeah, I don't want them to remove it but maybe reduce the spike a little. Give the low precentage people a chance if they do get unlucky. I like the move so... yeah. XD

@ Rouenne

The bair maneuver can seriously rack damage fast with the combos that can easily be implemented with others or to set the opponent up for a great fall.

 

[Swordplay]

Many of you probably already know this by now.........





SO today I was just foolin around...I tried jab canceling into a dash attack.

Then I was like HOLY **** did that just happen????

For those who haven't tried. Try to jab cancel into a dash attack and see what happens. It's relatively harder compared to other jab cancels but I was just pulling of such **** combo's........

Try it and see what you think.

(The only possible way this doesn't seem to work is if the character is one of the heaviest in the game AND they DI down AND they perfect shield the dash attack.)

Otherwise this seems to work.


Now unlike VB. This actually is pure **** in B+. I'm interested to know what you guys have come up with.

 

[BRLNK88]

d-tilt is honestly over-rated.
CPUs eat it up, but a human can figure out how to avoid it after like one spike.
The exceptions are DK and another Link, who are easy to hit with it.
Ike's is still a lot better.

 

[Demacrez]

Many of you probably already know this by now.........

...

Try it and see what you think.

...

Now unlike VB. This actually is pure **** in B+. I'm interested to know what you guys have come up with.

Yeah, but I usually do the three-hit jab and follow up with a dash attack then aerials. I find f-air to be a REALLY good as a finisher or a constant combo. I never knew how well Link would be good at falling off the stage, performing f-air, KO'ing the opponent if connected, then recovering back. Link just ***** at low stage and on stage!

d-tilt is honestly over-rated.
CPUs eat it up, but a human can figure out how to avoid it after like one spike.
The exceptions are DK and another Link, who are easy to hit with it.
Ike's is still a lot better.

You could try and set them up into the d-tilt. Other than that you could try and force them into flying too high (ie Boomerang, arrows, especially bombs) or being brave and drop down there with them and beat 'em up. XD

 

[BRLNK88]

You could try and set them up into the d-tilt. Other than that you could try and force them into flying too high (ie Boomerang, arrows, especially bombs) or being brave and drop down there with them and beat 'em up. XD

bombs aren't a bad idea... I guess when they're recovering vertically, fling a bomb down, then quickly get in position for d-tilt.
Although my first instinct would be to zair edgehog, or forget the bomb and just try a dtilt, I dunno...

 

[Sulfur]

I've been playing a guy who mains link in B+ and I couldn't believe how much of a spike dtilt has. It almost spiked me to the blast zone on yoshi's island as Samus at 35%. Like holy ****.

 

[Alphatron]

So I want to try playing Link but I run into a problem. I'm usually only able to fight cpus and they seem like the worst way for Link of all people to get train with. Any strats I can pick up for real battles? How do I recover?

 

[Swordplay]

So I want to try playing Link but I run into a problem. I'm usually only able to fight cpus and they seem like the worst way for Link of all people to get train with. Any strats I can pick up for real battles? How do I recover?

True, CPU's love to get D-tilted while humans actually avoid it.

CPU's almost never edge guard while humans love it.



The best strategy to recover is still from below the stage. Links up-b is very slow and can thus grab the edge quite easily while forcing opponents to get off the ledge as they run out of invincibility frames.




By the way, what do you guys think of the d-throw in the new nightly?

 

[Demacrez]

The D-Throw doesn't seem to hurt the game. But it can be an easy combo starter at higher precentages. I'd say around 30-50%, might be too high. I always find my opponent too close to the ground at lower precentages so I pretty much follow up with a Spin Attack.

Now if we could get a throw that can lure the opponent into the D-Tilt off stage, then we be talkin'. XP

Edit: I still think Link should get that mobile shield effect when he ambles forward.

 

[BRLNK88]

True, CPU's love to get D-tilted while humans actually avoid it.

CPU's almost never edge guard while humans love it.

oh lord, I have so much trouble getting back on the stage. My friend always *****es at me I need to be less predictable, I ***** back that I'm stuck playing CPUs all week, what can he honestly expect? The only other human I have play with in close proximity doesn't like playing me cuz I'm too good.
And then when the opponent regenerates, or getting back on the stage. CPU's will always fall for a ledge attack, but it won't work on a human.

 

[Demacrez]

Hm, I don't have any problems adjusting to humans. It takes a while but I need warm-ups before really going all "pro" as far as I can go.

 

[Finns7]

Walking shield sounds sexy......



Anyway I think links dsmash needs more kb...Gravity codes gayed this move hardcore. there were times when it connected and still didnt kill at 130. I dont think its asking to much, brawl+ physics nerfed it, so in turn bring it back atleast to where it was.

 

[Shadic]

The OP hasn't been updated in a while. If somebody wants to type anything up, formatted and everything, I'll quote it and toss it up.

 

[Demacrez]

Walking shield sounds sexy......



Anyway I think links dsmash needs more kb...Gravity codes gayed this move hardcore. there were times when it connected and still didnt kill at 130. I dont think its asking to much, brawl+ physics nerfed it, so in turn bring it back atleast to where it was.

I'm all for the Walking Shield!

But D-Smash, to me, doesn't really need the buff. I mean, he has other kill moves; F-Smash, U-Smash, F-Air, Spin Attack, etc. Plus, compared to Marth's it has a faster wind-down making it a nice combo starter at low precentages.

 

[Finns7]

combo starter??? if someone DI's its not really the best combo starter, not like it was in melee on ff' and stuffs. Its not even really a buff its just "restoring" it to its old percentage of killing.

 

[Swordplay]

D-smash doesn't seem to have a purpose now.

In VB it was a vertical killer.

Links vertical killers are now U-smash, dair and uair.
Its not a combo starter.
definatly not a horizontal killer.


D-smash is more like a safer GTFO move than spin attack. I still use it but not as much as I use to.