Let's talk.

[$hYne]

Another question :
What do you do if you grab your opponent (Fast Faller) at zero (low) percentages .

I used to uthrow regrab or uthrow usmash .
But lately im getting in the habbit of uthrow waveshine tap a to whatever (uair e.g.)
thunders combo i saw KDJ do that against some fast fallers .. .

Its probably a bit difficult to do it constantly idk .
But it does huge damage if you combine it with uair -> regrab or uair -> usmash ...

 

[Brookman]

I prefer simplicity, but I used to do that **** in friendly matches all the time.

Or up throw - shine - up smash.

blah blee blah

 

[Oskurito]

Nair isn't weak as far as I'm aware.

So you're saying its possible to nair shine before Peach CC dsmashes? It never works for me.

&elaborate on my double post too plz kthanx ^_^

It also works against samus CC dsmashes you need to do the nairs perfectly(or near perfect)and cancel them asap into shine, it isn't that hard IMO =P but is stupid, is much better to just to uair them and since they are CCing you can do another uair or maybe upsmash to finish them.

 

[Brookman]

It also works against samus CC dsmashes you need to do the nairs perfectly(or near perfect)and cancel them asap into shine, it isn't that hard IMO =P but is stupid, is much better to just to uair them and since they are CCing you can do another uair or maybe upsmash to finish them.

I don't know if it's just me, but I think shffling up airs is a bad idea, especially against peach. The hit box for the up air is in fox's feet, which are pointing upwards. Peach's downsmash will eat shffl'd nairs up like candy.

 

[Oskurito]

I don't know if it's just me, but I think shffling up airs is a bad idea, especially against peach. The hit box for the up air is in fox's feet, which are pointing upwards. Peach's downsmash will eat shffl'd nairs up like candy.

I don't think is a bad idea, if you hit her with the strong hit(the 2nd hit I believe) it makes her pop up even if she's CCing(unless she's at very low %), is kinda of a counter against CC but that's just me...

 

[SCOTU]

I dunno, trying to combo peach can be pretty risky. If you notice you're playing a peach that nairs to break out of combos just approach to try and coax the nair out of her, then go for a grab or an up smash. If they don't combo away.

Shffling drills is best, but I dunno, every peach I play is too busy floating over my head to get hit by a shffl'd anything.

Peach can reliably be hit with 4 nairs into an upsmash at a % close to 15-20.

 

[Oskurito]

Peach can reliably be hit with 4 nairs into an upsmash at a % close to 15-20.

Of course, as long as she's not in the ground to CC your ***

 

[SCOTU]

this combo doesn't start with a nair on the ground.

 

[RaynEX]

...

....

.....

uthrow nair?

lol iuno Scotu, how does it start. She CCs all nair approaches.

 

[Brookman]

Don't nair as soon as you leave the ground, especially if you have to travel some distance before hitting your target. Nair when you see the whites of their eyes.

 

[Andrew Ott]

Lol, nair when you the whites of their eyes.

I asked M2K the other day about Shine into an instant nair, he said he didn't think it was possible on the ground. In the air it works if you hit the opponent near the lower part of their body, so they're above you when you shine them. I was thinking that maybe this would wourk on CCing Peaches, because they stay in range of the nair. Plus, I think that if you shffl nair (or fulljump for mindgames), you can avoid the initial contact of the d-smash after the CC. Just a thought.

You probably wouldn't want to be shining if the Peach has time to CC though, I guess...

U-throw>Shine>Up-smash works a bunch on space animals that don't DI, and it looks especially cool when you waveshine backwards into a turn dash up-smash. Is it possble to tech getting hit with the shine in the air? If not, maybe up-throw>shine>dash nair>up-smash could work. Or maybe up-throw to Thunders combo. Oh the possibilities.

 

[SCOTU]

...

....

.....

uthrow nair?

lol iuno Scotu, how does it start. She CCs all nair approaches.

You start it with anything that can connect to a shffld weak nair. (i.e. dtilt, utilt, their float). It's not a particularly great/ easy setup, it's just a good followup, since you can even change direction of the nairs. You can start a smaller version of it with a waveshine (i.e. waveshine>nair>nair>usmash << volcano combo). I don't think you can get more than 2 nairs this way though (w/ good DI from the peach).

 

[Deleted member]

Practice fast falling faster, or just don't use weak moves vs. peach.

I use only shine/drill/grab as combo starters, since they all combo into and out of each other and can't be crouched.

another trick vs peach and yoshi/ness/mewtwo is to just force them to the edge and never let them up, since their's 2nd jumps are no good from the edge.

or you could just counterpick her w/ falco @ DL 64 and dair camp the top platform. When she comes up w/ her slowass jumps, dair her back down. If she comes from the side, go the other way and shoot lasers and laser her until she leaves the top platform and go back up there. simple, yet really fun to use.

peach also hates it when you edgehog her and doubleshine her parasol/2nd jump.

edit: don't nair peach. just don't. Stop it.

 

[Brookman]

or you could just counterpick her w/ falco @ DL 64 and dair camp the top platform. When she comes up w/ her slowass jumps, dair her back down. If she comes from the side, go the other way and shoot lasers and laser her until she leaves the top platform and go back up there. simple, yet really fun to use.

I was going to say something about this the first time you'd posted it but figured it didn't matter much. Anyway, All peach has to do is parasol you, since her parasol goes through falco's anything like it's butter.

but if the peach player doesn't think to do that then that trick is absolute gold XD.

 

[Sizzle]

I was watching a vid of Mew2King against Vidjo at FC6, and Mew2King on a few occasions use dsmash out of waveshine. Would this be effective if the Peach was DI'ing away expecting usmash? Even if it sends her deep in the hole, she can still prolly jump and float back.

 

[Brookman]

I use downsmash a lot at the edge against peach, but you just have to know when she's at death% from up smash, cause if she's there there is no point in down smashing.

Downsmashing limits her recovery options, cause she has to recover low, and if she is TOO low, she dies.

 

[RaynEX]

If not, maybe up-throw>shine>dash nair>up-smash could work. Or maybe up-throw to Thunders combo. Oh the possibilities.

Both work. KDJ links thunders from uthrow shine a LOT on spacies.

 

[kenny10]

Downsmashing limits her recovery options, cause she has to recover low, and if she is TOO low, she dies.

That's why I thought it would work.

What about a falling uair instead of a nair against a Peach at lower percentages? You can't CC that, or can you?

 

[Brookman]

In my experience short hopping up airs is pretty risky, but I guess it also has a pretty solid reward. As long as the strong hit connects then I think the worst that can happen is peach falls over if she is trying to CC. Just try it out for yourselves.

 

[RaynEX]

I think we discussed that in this thread before.

The hitbox is at his feet right? So most don't feel safe even attempted to jump in with uairs because of that. Could get eaten if timed wrong.

 

[Oskurito]

I just do uair against CC when they're abusing it

 

[RaynEX]

...how about drill grabs.

I never use them. Are they useful? Nair grabs too.

 

[Cort]

The reason why so many Fox players lose to characters that fall over from shines is because they drill shine instead of drill grabbing (bad habit...)

Against certain Game & Watch players, the Foxes that drill shine will often times lose the match because they don't grab enough (uair absurdly ***** gnw, as some of us have learned)

 

[Nite]

That's definitely true, Cort. Drillgrab to a couple up airs is more or less essential for a Fox player. I find myself messing up a waveshine from time to time and I just get d-smashed by Peach. When I could have just drillgrabbed.

 

[Brookman]

drill to grab is my favorite. putting the shine in between and then wavedashing out of it is such a waste of button inputs.

 

[SCOTU]

I think we discussed that in this thread before.

The hitbox is at his feet right? So most don't feel safe even attempted to jump in with uairs because of that. Could get eaten if timed wrong.

The hitbox basically covers his shoulders down(? - or is it up?), you'd be surprised at how easy it is for a peach to just Dsmash before the uair hits.

And yes. Drillgrabs are amazing.

 

[RaynEX]

when i do it i get grabbed first oftentimes. :S

I suppose that when i see the drill is shielded I shine to w/e to beat the follow-up,

but when i hit i should grab? I just never know when to use it...or when a waveshine would be better.

 

[Deleted member]

when drill hits.

 

[RaynEX]

so simple.

yet so explanatory.

 

[Oskurito]

you can drillshine>jab>shield and hope that they nair then grab upthrow> uair that's much better, drillgrab is still safer tho

 

[Cort]

There would be absolutely no point to the jab unless you needed the 3-4% (whatever) in order for the uair to kill o_O And they'd catch on after the first attempt/success.

Otherwise it'd just be funny to do in a friendly, I suppose.

Fox is about KISS. Keep it simple, stupid.

 

[Oskurito]

I said thunder's and then shield grab or start a nair juggle instead of shield grabbing, on tourneys I'll just laser camp, DD grab and drillgrab. yeah gayness ftw

 

[Cort]

Oh woops, drill to jab and then shielding a nair-whoring Peach would be funny, though.

I'm still confused what you mean or how they would somehow nair after being thunders'd.

 

[Oskurito]

You'll know when you see it. If peach is in a juggle state(when a char spinning around in circles on the air) she'll likely counter with a nair if not she'll have to land and tech, if she's not in a juggle state she'll probably wait for you to shield then land and grab you or either still do the nair (mindgames...)

 

[Brookman]

You'll know when you see it. If peach is in a juggle state(when a char spinning around in circles on the air) she'll likely counter with a nair if not she'll have to land and tech, if she's not in a juggle state she'll probably wait for you to shield then land and grab you or either still do the nair (mindgames...)

ROFL @ telling this to cort.

 

[Cort]

I don't know anything about Peach.

But in conclusion, I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean. You started talking about thunder's comboing a Peach? And jabbing them in order to bait nairs out into your shield, in which case would land you a free shield grab.

I'm still a little confused, but in the end, my original philosophy would still stand: Keep it simple, stupid.

 

[Oskurito]

Keep it simple, stupid.

Is there a reason to insult me?

 

[Ryan-K]

That's not an insult, it's a common saying.

 

[Cort]

It's a philosophy that can be applied to just about everything, it's blunt. I think the extra "S" at the end is just to add emphasis.

KISS = Keep it simple, stupid.

There's no insulting of anyone.

 

[Brookman]

The sun will shine, and give us a hug.
The world will sing like a happy bug.