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- Thread starter Brookman
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SCOTU
Smash Hero
peach: waveshine>nair>maybe some more nairs>to an upsmash. It's way better than drillshining. Actually, you can forget the nairs if you want and just go to the upsmash. either are better than trying to waveshine>shinespike though.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
dunno. I've been meaning to test that. *goes to test*
Peach falls to the nair when CCed at:
Strong Nair: 83%
Weak Nair: 121%
(%s are before the nair)
Peach falls to the nair when CCed at:
Strong Nair: 83%
Weak Nair: 121%
(%s are before the nair)
Regarding the characters Falco and Captain Falcon, they're extremely heavy and fast-falling. While Fox is still strong in his upward KOs, I'm wondering if that's really the most efficient thing to do against Falco and Falcon. Especially since those are two characters who are relatively easy to edgeguard? What do you Fox mains think? Better to keep going for the upward combos/KOs, or just nair/bair/Shine them off and edgeguard?
SCOTU
Smash Hero
I like the uthrow>bair/fsmash/dsmash to get them off and edgeguard. When playing those to characters in particular, IMO, the whole match should be about you trying to get them off the stage and keep them there. Not to say you shouldn't go for an upward KO if they're at a high enough percent and you haven't killed them already. (i.e. uthrow>usmash/uair on falco, waveshine>usmash on CF).
I think it's always best to try and edge guard every character as early as possible, that's one of the reasons I made this topic.
"get them off the stage and keep them there" That is the the ideal way to play, but obviously there's a lot more to actually playing the game than that.
It's not about KOing them with a smash, or hitting them so far off the stage they can't recover. The goal is to just keep them from recovering to the edge or stage, by any means, until they can't make it back to either. Though sometimes letting them back onto the stage is the best way to kill them.
"get them off the stage and keep them there" That is the the ideal way to play, but obviously there's a lot more to actually playing the game than that.
It's not about KOing them with a smash, or hitting them so far off the stage they can't recover. The goal is to just keep them from recovering to the edge or stage, by any means, until they can't make it back to either. Though sometimes letting them back onto the stage is the best way to kill them.
Falcon gets destroyed bycombos, lasers and smart playing,I usually go for grab combos with him such as upthrow>waveshine>upthrow and if he DI's I usually chase with a grab or waveshine(but grab if much safer imo) and repeat the whole stuff again until he's at mid-high% where I can start nair juggles the safest combo here is drillshine>upsmash and we shouldn't forget lasers when he's far away.
Falco get's ***** by grab combos as well so be creative and combo him as much as possible, no laser spam here but you can stop his aproaches with the shine(sometimes) but powershield is obviously much better in this case so if you can consistenly powershield then go for it. Thunder's combo is **** on him not to mention that you can dair him after the jab and repeat the whole thing again. Always try to get falco off the stage and kill him with a shinespike...
Peach is gay and cheap, so you need to be more gay than her and cheaper, spam as much as you can/want if peach tryes to camp with turnips space your self with rshl/rshdl and catch her turnips sometimes and throw them to her. The safest combo here is drillshine>upsmash and use uair to destroy her cc if she does it.
Falco get's ***** by grab combos as well so be creative and combo him as much as possible, no laser spam here but you can stop his aproaches with the shine(sometimes) but powershield is obviously much better in this case so if you can consistenly powershield then go for it. Thunder's combo is **** on him not to mention that you can dair him after the jab and repeat the whole thing again. Always try to get falco off the stage and kill him with a shinespike...
Peach is gay and cheap, so you need to be more gay than her and cheaper, spam as much as you can/want if peach tryes to camp with turnips space your self with rshl/rshdl and catch her turnips sometimes and throw them to her. The safest combo here is drillshine>upsmash and use uair to destroy her cc if she does it.
I appreciate the contribution, of course, but I'd like to keep discussion more refined. Everything you talked about is vague and seems to omit the fact your opponent is human. Instead of just saying "play smart" or "play gay" I'm looking for your individual strategies in approach and execution of intelligent and homosexual playing.
While it would be good for less experienced players to hear things like that, I'm looking for more thoughtful posts than just "grab up throw up air blah blah blah."
LOL xD!!
My individual strategy uh? I usually(always) laser and wait them to come and if they do something stupid like throwing a random shuffle carelessly I go for the combo if they don't come I keep spamming. But to tell you the thruth I play a stupid agressive style most of the times there isn't too much mindgames on my style, Idk... what else do you want to talk? I like combos but don't know about you..
In other words you don't really think too much about the way you play. If you admit to playing stupidly aggressive you should take a break from posting in this topic. That's perfectly fine for just having fun, but this topic is for seriously players looking to improve for tournament play.
At the same time, it's hard not to be vague, given the large amount of situations you can find yourself in, but if you play a match there's really only so much **** that happens. I'm trying to find a way to word the questions I am trying to find answers to so I can get the right input from everyone else that I'm looking to get, but it's hard, sorta?
At the same time, it's hard not to be vague, given the large amount of situations you can find yourself in, but if you play a match there's really only so much **** that happens. I'm trying to find a way to word the questions I am trying to find answers to so I can get the right input from everyone else that I'm looking to get, but it's hard, sorta?
IDK why you don't watch me and see it for your self? .Tournament play k k I get it, not need to wacht my vids, it's kinda irrelevant anyway. I think I'll stop posting and check what else you've got to say cause it looks that you are more experienced regarding to tournament level, so I guess I'll just watch and learn... and maybe make a post when someone makes a retardly stupid post lol
I think I should have waited till I could articulate myself better.
Obviously it's hard to explain the way you play without actually playing, cause I'm pretty sure most of you are like me and don't THINK every move through. Still though, I try not to play mindlessly.
I guess the question I should have asked is not WHAT you do vs. certain characters, but how you go about doing it. Or why you do what you do when you get thrown off the stage by marth or sheik or another fox. How do you stay alive and go about winning?
Obviously it's hard to explain the way you play without actually playing, cause I'm pretty sure most of you are like me and don't THINK every move through. Still though, I try not to play mindlessly.
I guess the question I should have asked is not WHAT you do vs. certain characters, but how you go about doing it. Or why you do what you do when you get thrown off the stage by marth or sheik or another fox. How do you stay alive and go about winning?
SCOTU
Smash Hero
about peaches that like to float towards you (just above shffl/shl height) and drop down with a fair/nair, do you think sprinting towards and shffling a bair as you pass under would work?
I think that just waiting for them to fall down and upsmashing works wonders >_>
Sometimes you trade hits though. KJ does that a lot and I'll try next time I play against him. I think it's a pretty good idea though, maybe it'll get them out of the habit of floating around and keep them on the ground where we can combo them.
Sometimes you trade hits though. KJ does that a lot and I'll try next time I play against him. I think it's a pretty good idea though, maybe it'll get them out of the habit of floating around and keep them on the ground where we can combo them.
For Falco, his recovery sucks balls, and a lot of times you can just get an easy shine spike from a B-throw. Against fastfallers, just abuse the grab as much as possible. Although it's not the best thing to try and kill a Captain Falcon upwards, it racks up damage quickly, and can send them far off the stage if they DI, allowing you to edgeguard. You just have to be smart against those two, and try not to let them get any openings. Even when you're chainthrowing, Falco may be able to shine you out of it as its falling down and then combo to death. Peach is not that easy of a matchup, but if you're techincal enough, you can cruel drill shine them into either an Up Smash or a Shine Spike. Abuse the Sex Kicks and the Shine a **** load...
SCOTU
Smash Hero
i feel much of that is wrong. Cruel Drillshines dont' work for very long against good peaches, If you're chain grabbing falco, he can't shine you out. If he did, you're doing it wrong. And we've been over this, don't just say "be smart" give examples of what you do to be smart.
Lunin was Drillshining M2K, so it should be possible to cruel shine, or at least continuously drillshine across the stage on Peach. Falco can shine out at the right percentage if they wiggle the control stick, or if you try to grab a little too late. What I meant by be smart is to be more careful when approaching them, since both of them can do a lot of damage to you if you give them the opportunity to do so.
You may as well define 'be smart' as 'be smart' by saying you mean just be careful when approaching. Of course you should be careful, the point of this topic is to ACTUALLY DISCUSS HOW TO BE CAREFUL IN YOUR APPROACH, and all the other stuff. I'll try to rewrite the first post later tonight or tomorrow if I'm on to keep confusion in the future to a minimum.
How can you protect yourself/stay as safe as possible while still keeping pressure on your opponent and being offensive.
Of course it's hard to just say "DO THIS!" but we can discuss tactics that we do not see often or haven't tried etc and then actually try them out when we play.
I guess I just want to promote intelligent discussion and intelligent playing.
How can you protect yourself/stay as safe as possible while still keeping pressure on your opponent and being offensive.
Of course it's hard to just say "DO THIS!" but we can discuss tactics that we do not see often or haven't tried etc and then actually try them out when we play.
I guess I just want to promote intelligent discussion and intelligent playing.
D
Deleted member
Guest
hmm I'll add some random off-topic crap then:
if samus crouches under 20% at least, she can crouch any aerial and downsmash fox before he can shine, this includes drillshine which many people think cannot be crouched but that's false.
falco also has a lot of success with CC to shine, and can crouch a variety of things, particularly fox's jab, so jab-grab to falco isn't usually a good idea, since when he can't crouch (in the air) it means he's ding a dair into your face.
A good way to **** falco is to light shield his aerial shine and upsmash out of shield when they push you back, since the light shield pushes fox too far back for falco to grab and upsmash out of shield will come out faster than anything falco can do after a shine.
Upthrow upair doesn't work on DK samus mario doc luigi. Also, both fox and falco can smash DI the first hit of upair and shine fox out of his move before the 2nd hits.
sheik can generally crouch fox's aerials from above and uptilt at the same time and take advantage of him really fast. sheik's ftilt tip spaced perfectly will knock fox out of any of his aerials.
as for edgeguarding, fox's invincible bair is the way to go.
when recovering vs doc, use your second jump to get directly below the edge facing towards the stage and attempt to land on the stage, going barely past the edge. if fox's touches the stage during his up B, he will turn around and face outward toward the stage. If doc capes you, you will turn around and grab the edge. If he does not cape you, you will automatically turn around and regrab the edge anyway. Since doc doesn't have another move that hits below the stage that is ideal for edgeguarding, you will generally live. If doc goes to edgehog you, you will pass him and land on the stage and be at an immediate advantage. If doc attempts to hit you as you're recovering, you are offered a free tech, since you're recovering along the stage anyway. The only way to get around this is if doc bairs exactly on the edge, which is impractical, and if it fails gets him shined.
if peach is recovering vs your fox, it is easy to drop off invicible shine 2nd jump shine, as both are invincible and easy to hit with, and if you simply let shine go, you can grab the edge again. This is useful vs other characters, but moreso peach.
to edgeguard samus, drop off and edgehog. If she does up B, drop low and bair her off, landing on the stage. If she grapples, wait for her to pull it in and stand up upsmash or drop off and 2nd jump upair or just shine her and get back on the edge.
to edgeguard doc out of up B range, jump out and nair him, if he camps you, steer your body into him anyway, then recover as usual. A weak nair will actually work vs a lot of characters between their 2nd jump and up B use.
fox can shine marth out of CG at 27% if he doesn't pivot grab by then. Hold to marth's back to escape uptilt combos.
fox can infinite link without walls or WD w/ just drillshine if you SH out of shine and hold toward link and drill w/ C but it's very hard.
when recovering close to the stage, very few player punish the very short canceled over B to the edge.
when edgeguarding sheik, edgehog her and make her poof. When she poofs, stand up. If she goes to the edge, WD back off and edgehog her. If she lands on the stage. waveshine her to the other end of the stage and downsmash her off, and jump back on the edge and repeat.
at 20% fox to fox/falco, upthrow upsmash upsmash into any aerial is a combo with any DI.
shines can be DI'd.
aerial drill to aerial anyone cannot combo into anything.
fox's best move is upthrow, as is he fast enough to either combo out of it, or if he can't do that, abuse his speed to keep other characters from landing for the remainder of the stock.
meh bored, more later.
if samus crouches under 20% at least, she can crouch any aerial and downsmash fox before he can shine, this includes drillshine which many people think cannot be crouched but that's false.
falco also has a lot of success with CC to shine, and can crouch a variety of things, particularly fox's jab, so jab-grab to falco isn't usually a good idea, since when he can't crouch (in the air) it means he's ding a dair into your face.
A good way to **** falco is to light shield his aerial shine and upsmash out of shield when they push you back, since the light shield pushes fox too far back for falco to grab and upsmash out of shield will come out faster than anything falco can do after a shine.
Upthrow upair doesn't work on DK samus mario doc luigi. Also, both fox and falco can smash DI the first hit of upair and shine fox out of his move before the 2nd hits.
sheik can generally crouch fox's aerials from above and uptilt at the same time and take advantage of him really fast. sheik's ftilt tip spaced perfectly will knock fox out of any of his aerials.
as for edgeguarding, fox's invincible bair is the way to go.
when recovering vs doc, use your second jump to get directly below the edge facing towards the stage and attempt to land on the stage, going barely past the edge. if fox's touches the stage during his up B, he will turn around and face outward toward the stage. If doc capes you, you will turn around and grab the edge. If he does not cape you, you will automatically turn around and regrab the edge anyway. Since doc doesn't have another move that hits below the stage that is ideal for edgeguarding, you will generally live. If doc goes to edgehog you, you will pass him and land on the stage and be at an immediate advantage. If doc attempts to hit you as you're recovering, you are offered a free tech, since you're recovering along the stage anyway. The only way to get around this is if doc bairs exactly on the edge, which is impractical, and if it fails gets him shined.
if peach is recovering vs your fox, it is easy to drop off invicible shine 2nd jump shine, as both are invincible and easy to hit with, and if you simply let shine go, you can grab the edge again. This is useful vs other characters, but moreso peach.
to edgeguard samus, drop off and edgehog. If she does up B, drop low and bair her off, landing on the stage. If she grapples, wait for her to pull it in and stand up upsmash or drop off and 2nd jump upair or just shine her and get back on the edge.
to edgeguard doc out of up B range, jump out and nair him, if he camps you, steer your body into him anyway, then recover as usual. A weak nair will actually work vs a lot of characters between their 2nd jump and up B use.
fox can shine marth out of CG at 27% if he doesn't pivot grab by then. Hold to marth's back to escape uptilt combos.
fox can infinite link without walls or WD w/ just drillshine if you SH out of shine and hold toward link and drill w/ C but it's very hard.
when recovering close to the stage, very few player punish the very short canceled over B to the edge.
when edgeguarding sheik, edgehog her and make her poof. When she poofs, stand up. If she goes to the edge, WD back off and edgehog her. If she lands on the stage. waveshine her to the other end of the stage and downsmash her off, and jump back on the edge and repeat.
at 20% fox to fox/falco, upthrow upsmash upsmash into any aerial is a combo with any DI.
shines can be DI'd.
aerial drill to aerial anyone cannot combo into anything.
fox's best move is upthrow, as is he fast enough to either combo out of it, or if he can't do that, abuse his speed to keep other characters from landing for the remainder of the stock.
meh bored, more later.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Is it possible to bthrow falco by the edge, shffl an aerial say nair in his general direction before he lands and still have time to catch him in his tech on reaction? I haven't been able to test it since I haven't played in about a month. If this works it would mean you could bthrow falco, nair towards him, and if he doesnt tech or techs in place / away from you then you can hit him with a nair that sends him off anyway, at low percents links into a shine, and if he techs towards stage you would again theoretically be able to run and grab him again before his tech finishes.
Also does anyone else find ftilt/dtilt underrated? Dtilt has decieving range and quickness, and also has the benefit of occasionally sneaking under shields.
Also does anyone else find ftilt/dtilt underrated? Dtilt has decieving range and quickness, and also has the benefit of occasionally sneaking under shields.
There is some tactics to stay offensive and be protected (wtf?) at the same time. For example lets say that you hit peach with an nair and go for another one but you know that because of her % she will be able to nair you and break your combo (c-c-c-combo breaker!) but we gonna use our head here right? so we predict his gay move and shield grab it then use F-throw keeping peach on the air at this point we know peach will be able to do a random aerial to outpriorize any attack and since we had already did an f-throw we are not well spaced enough to go for another shield so we.......... this is mind games in my head there are to posibilities: 1- peach does an nair wich you can counter with a foxtrot bakcwards and nair 2-peach SDI and fast falls so she shield and rolls after your nair attempt and the thing goes on... In short words MINDGAMES
I do stuff like that with falcon, but I've never really tried with fox. I normally just up throw.
****. I've been double posting soo much lately -.-
you ignored my post >_> or it isn't good enough for you to look at it?
D
Deleted member
Guest
peach is too dangerous to dash grab since she can always negate landing lag, it's safer to just use laser and shine upsmash. Another really safe lead is drill if you can bait an attack, and drill shine or drill grab works wonders.
on another unrelated note, falco vs peach on DL 64 is funny. Simply sit on the top platform, and when peach comes up to get you with her slow-*** jump, dair her. If she comes up from a side, shoot her and run away until you can go back up top. guaranteed laughter.
edit: still lazy, bbl.
on another unrelated note, falco vs peach on DL 64 is funny. Simply sit on the top platform, and when peach comes up to get you with her slow-*** jump, dair her. If she comes up from a side, shoot her and run away until you can go back up top. guaranteed laughter.
edit: still lazy, bbl.
Silent Wolf
...
Some things I like
If a Sheik is Up-B stalling, light shield edge hog her.
When edge guarding a Marth coming from below, stand up on the ledge so you avoid the up-b, and shine. Also stand up vs Sheik at the point where if she goes for the ledge, she'll et edge hogged, and if she goes up, just WD back onto the ledge. If she lands on the stage, grab, uthrow, uair, or usmash at a percent it will kill.
If you're player 2 or 3, if you re-spawn on Battlefield, hold a direction and aerial, and stick with that direction, and you'll edge cancel on either side of the platform. On the grass for of Stadium, when you re-spawn, do and aerial and hold right and you'll automatically edge cancel on the wood platform. Etc...
Tough technique: Instant wall jump (on FD), laser towards the stage, then sweetspot the ledge with your up-b so you renew your wall jump, and repeat. Being able to renew the instant wall jump is the hard part.
Bair to grab works wonder on characters like Peach and Marth at lower percents.
WD off the ledge, fast fall past the ledge and jump<bair, is really good for edge guarding. Best in cases such as a Mario shooting a fireball, this way you sneak under it and get the KO. Coming from further away, shine turn around and fall past the ledge and jump<bair is good. It catches them off guard.
Dash at someone when they are shielding, then shield right in front of them, but then jump out of it when you still have enough momentum to get behind them. They may try to grab you, and get baird.
Wall jump air dodge is a good way to recover, compared to Up-B in that situation.
A fun thing to do on Fast fallers at very low percent, is uthrow, and if they don't Di, step to the side a bit, and let them land, If they don't Di, they expect to get hit, so they most likely won't tech. Once they've landed, jab them. They'll be forced to stand no matter what. Then fall on them with a uair, then usmash, or grab after that. It works on really good players, I've tried it.
On a Fox or Falco, near the edge, forward throw, then wait a second. Then run off, fast fall, and jump back up with a nair. they usually Side-B into it, then you can shine them.
Do a rising dair to edge guard Falco and Fox's up-b. Falco will just get edge hogged after it, and you can just shine Fox, or repeat. They can't DI it onto the stage if done right.
Use a nair from the ledge to edge guard illusions. It stays out there longer than a bair would, and the hitbox makes it easier to knock them the way they came from. Works with all sex kicks, a lot of players do it with characters like Samus, Link, etc.
If a Sheik is Up-B stalling, light shield edge hog her.
When edge guarding a Marth coming from below, stand up on the ledge so you avoid the up-b, and shine. Also stand up vs Sheik at the point where if she goes for the ledge, she'll et edge hogged, and if she goes up, just WD back onto the ledge. If she lands on the stage, grab, uthrow, uair, or usmash at a percent it will kill.
If you're player 2 or 3, if you re-spawn on Battlefield, hold a direction and aerial, and stick with that direction, and you'll edge cancel on either side of the platform. On the grass for of Stadium, when you re-spawn, do and aerial and hold right and you'll automatically edge cancel on the wood platform. Etc...
Tough technique: Instant wall jump (on FD), laser towards the stage, then sweetspot the ledge with your up-b so you renew your wall jump, and repeat. Being able to renew the instant wall jump is the hard part.
Bair to grab works wonder on characters like Peach and Marth at lower percents.
WD off the ledge, fast fall past the ledge and jump<bair, is really good for edge guarding. Best in cases such as a Mario shooting a fireball, this way you sneak under it and get the KO. Coming from further away, shine turn around and fall past the ledge and jump<bair is good. It catches them off guard.
Dash at someone when they are shielding, then shield right in front of them, but then jump out of it when you still have enough momentum to get behind them. They may try to grab you, and get baird.
Wall jump air dodge is a good way to recover, compared to Up-B in that situation.
A fun thing to do on Fast fallers at very low percent, is uthrow, and if they don't Di, step to the side a bit, and let them land, If they don't Di, they expect to get hit, so they most likely won't tech. Once they've landed, jab them. They'll be forced to stand no matter what. Then fall on them with a uair, then usmash, or grab after that. It works on really good players, I've tried it.
On a Fox or Falco, near the edge, forward throw, then wait a second. Then run off, fast fall, and jump back up with a nair. they usually Side-B into it, then you can shine them.
Do a rising dair to edge guard Falco and Fox's up-b. Falco will just get edge hogged after it, and you can just shine Fox, or repeat. They can't DI it onto the stage if done right.
Use a nair from the ledge to edge guard illusions. It stays out there longer than a bair would, and the hitbox makes it easier to knock them the way they came from. Works with all sex kicks, a lot of players do it with characters like Samus, Link, etc.
kenny10
Smash Journeyman
lol Thunder's combo
Anyways, I've always wondered, what kind of priority does Samus's bombs have against Fox's aerials. Usually when I play against a Samus, those bombs interrupt me a lot. For example, if Samus is in the air and starts to bomb jump, sometimes a bair would go through the bomb and hits Samus while an uair wouldn't. This would also apply to edgeguarding a bomb-jumping Samus who is above you. What would be the most logical thing to do? Also against a Peach, would drillgrabbing be a better alternative than drillshining due to SDI reasons?
SCOTU
Smash Hero
Random and off topic, cause i didn't get a chance to read all of Mow's / SW's post (which look amazing so far). If you're drillshining a peach, and she SDI's behind you, assuming you still get the L Cancel, utilt. It combos (only if your back is facing them, which is why this is a legit option).
Edit: btw, Mow & SW, great posts. Completely amazing.
Edit: btw, Mow & SW, great posts. Completely amazing.
peachori
Smash Journeyman
i'm curious what the skilled players in here think about edgeguarding illusions using downward angled ftilt. i've been dropping off and jumping back up with a nair for a long time, but lately i've experimented with the downward angled ftilt at the edge. any opinions?
Excel_Zero
Smash Lord
Yes it is an efficient way to edgeguard space animals when coming in a direct angle to you or the ledge (illusion or firefox). If they are at low % it can set a shinespike, and if they are on high % then you don't have to worry of them coming back.
Nice thread btw.
Here I'll help with some random stuff...
- Against a Peach I'd say nair is not a convenient option. She can CC that easily and following it with a dsmash. And since Scotu said she falls at 81% then it's not a very good idea to do so because you have the option of drill>waveshine>upsmash to deal with her. I just use nairs to get Peach of me in the air, but it's very situational.
- Best stage for Fox generally is Green Greens and Dreamland. In Green Greens I usually go to the other side of the stage and start ground lasering because the lasers goes through the stage across to the other side and even hit most of the characters (except crouching Sheik and Puff for example). Low ceiling really helps with uair and upsmash KOs. In Dreamland you have a big place which is perfect to abuse Fox's speed and laser. The rest are more character specific.
- A safer way of shinespiking a space animal at low-mid % is to bair the attack and they will lose height. Then when they start charging up the firefox again you go for the spike.
- When you respawn at pokemon stadium (being the first slot I believe), you can fall a little, firefox, aim for the ledge, and then fastfall. If you did this correctly you were supposed to grab the ledge. Not very useful on actual playing but it's flashy lol. I call it teh ZERO SUPER EDGEHOG!
- Abuse Fox's speed. Laser those slowish characters like Peach and Puff from the other side of the stage. The players that doesn't know how to deal with this get frustrated and start making stupid mistakes which you can punish.
- Dthrow techchasing is a lot easier on platforms since they have less space to move, making it easier to punish with upsmashes, another grab, etc.
- Uthrow>uair works on puff, but the timming is different. Since she is so light Fox animation is shorter than normal, making it possible to reach her.
- You can cancel some projectiles like Link's boomerang or Doc's pills with the dash attack, canceling the lag of the attack and confusing the opponent.
- If they are throwing projectiles at you from far away just shine them, but if they are close be wary since they can use the shine's lag to get you. When they get close just powershield to surprise.
maybe I'll add some more stuff later...
Nice thread btw.
Here I'll help with some random stuff...
- Against a Peach I'd say nair is not a convenient option. She can CC that easily and following it with a dsmash. And since Scotu said she falls at 81% then it's not a very good idea to do so because you have the option of drill>waveshine>upsmash to deal with her. I just use nairs to get Peach of me in the air, but it's very situational.
- Best stage for Fox generally is Green Greens and Dreamland. In Green Greens I usually go to the other side of the stage and start ground lasering because the lasers goes through the stage across to the other side and even hit most of the characters (except crouching Sheik and Puff for example). Low ceiling really helps with uair and upsmash KOs. In Dreamland you have a big place which is perfect to abuse Fox's speed and laser. The rest are more character specific.
- A safer way of shinespiking a space animal at low-mid % is to bair the attack and they will lose height. Then when they start charging up the firefox again you go for the spike.
- When you respawn at pokemon stadium (being the first slot I believe), you can fall a little, firefox, aim for the ledge, and then fastfall. If you did this correctly you were supposed to grab the ledge. Not very useful on actual playing but it's flashy lol. I call it teh ZERO SUPER EDGEHOG!
- Abuse Fox's speed. Laser those slowish characters like Peach and Puff from the other side of the stage. The players that doesn't know how to deal with this get frustrated and start making stupid mistakes which you can punish.
- Dthrow techchasing is a lot easier on platforms since they have less space to move, making it easier to punish with upsmashes, another grab, etc.
- Uthrow>uair works on puff, but the timming is different. Since she is so light Fox animation is shorter than normal, making it possible to reach her.
- You can cancel some projectiles like Link's boomerang or Doc's pills with the dash attack, canceling the lag of the attack and confusing the opponent.
- If they are throwing projectiles at you from far away just shine them, but if they are close be wary since they can use the shine's lag to get you. When they get close just powershield to surprise.
maybe I'll add some more stuff later...
H@wK
Smash Ace
I usually use Sex Kick against Illusions, also, the U-tilt works, and sets the ocasion for a guaranteed spike, if you catch your opponent doing wrong DI. But then again, meh.
Against Marth obviusly Light Shield Egde Guard, same for Peach.
Remember, don't play to look cool, play to win, even if it looks gay.
Against Marth obviusly Light Shield Egde Guard, same for Peach.
Remember, don't play to look cool, play to win, even if it looks gay.
Silent Wolf
...
I'm usually on the ledge when edge guarding a Fox so i ledge hop neutral.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
angled ftilts **** Marth's recovery if timed right. If they sweet-spot though, the tip of the sword will most likely hit you, plus SSing automatically places Marth too low for anykind of counter-attack.
I've never really tried Nairs to edgeguard. Would even an indirect hit from the nair knock out an incoming illusion or firefox?
I've never really tried Nairs to edgeguard. Would even an indirect hit from the nair knock out an incoming illusion or firefox?
-Kazman-
Smash Journeyman
This thread has proven to be very informative, hooray.
kenny10
Smash Journeyman
Here's one:
Up smash out of shield works against Falcons who spam aerials and mess up their spacing. It's a better combo starter than a grab at lower percentages.
Up smash out of shield works against Falcons who spam aerials and mess up their spacing. It's a better combo starter than a grab at lower percentages.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
can anyone answer my previous question?