Let's talk.

[Oskurito]

hello well of information. bump.

I cant believe it ... I havent write anything on these forums like in years! god ... ****.. tell me whats up. Teach me some new ****

 

[RaynEX]

Brookman, Oskurito and I spammed this thread so hard. Check out the first couple of pages guys. Good tiimes.

This thread was the **** haha

 

[Kanelol]

Anyone else here have a burning passion to incessantly CP FD, even against shieks and marths

I dunno why, I just love it sooooo much

 

[omgwtfToph]

fox ***** sheik on fd i dont care what canada says

 

[Silent Wolf]

fox ***** sheik on fd i dont care what canada says

i agree

 

[RaynEX]

lol when did we ever say he didn't?


(KK doesn't **** up techchases though so it's usually GG off the grab)


It's arguably Fox's best stage in the MU amirite?

 

[Wenbobular]

Not Stadium?

 

[RaynEX]

She can still platform camp on Stadium. Even with the walls for infinites, there's no real reason for Sheik to change her usual strategy. You have to be extra careful of gimps on Stadium because its so hard to see once you get knocked off. Teching loses some of its importance due to this loss of vision, and squeezing against the stage is now impossible.

The main reason FD is better is because there are no platforms. It's flat and you can get solid damage through waveshines and grabs. If you knock her up in the air with uairs, it's super easy to follow her from below and tack on more damage. You have the entire expanse of FD to chase her on.

During edge-guards, the on-stage waveshine punish is limited only by your techskill. You can get like 4 or 5 waveshines before the usmash, often guaranteeing a kill at like 65% (before the shines).

The real benefit is the lack of platforms though. Many of these other pros can be replicated on other neutrals.

 

[Kanelol]

well **** son i used to think FD was bad for sheik

 

[Wenbobular]

That's what Raynex is saying isn't it x_X

Thanks for the explanation Raynex
I just like FD because you can do super sweetspots from below with Firefox haha

Also what about like ... Cruise
My favorite counterpick vs anyone regardless of character

 

[Winston]

lol when did we ever say he didn't?


(KK doesn't **** up techchases though so it's usually GG off the grab)


It's arguably Fox's best stage in the MU amirite?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11488852&postcount=12543

not that I have any idea about the issue, but I did see unknown post that about why FD isn't the best vs Sheik.

 

[RaynEX]

That's what Raynex is saying isn't it x_X

Thanks for the explanation Raynex
I just like FD because you can do super sweetspots from below with Firefox haha

Also what about like ... Cruise
My favorite counterpick vs anyone regardless of character

Fox plays like a wimp on Cruise. The whole plan is to run away and shoot lasers. When you're on the boat, dive headfirst into battle and make sure all those lasers during the stage changes become of use. It's your chance to get gimp utilt kills and uthrow uairs (aided by the ship's platforms).

At the beginning of the stage I'd suggest you put all your effort into getting that first stock, or at least the lead. It will give your runaway game real purpose. Once you're off the boat, make sure you don't hang around directly above your opponent. Move to the left or right and into the range of your bair and utilt. Run off platforms and score quick hits to raise damage. Then use the levels dumb design to grab/hit them at an inconvenient transition (e.g., they're forced to jump and land somewhere) for an easy stock.

imo easier said than done.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11488852&postcount=12543

not that I have any idea about the issue, but I did see unknown post that about why FD isn't the best vs Sheik.

I remember that post now, thanks Gustav. Let's combine the pros and cons of FD vs. Sheik.

Unknown's points:

- no platforms to maneuver around her.
- She can wall easier, because you can't go around her.
- Easy for her to trap you at the edge. With no platforms to move around her, she can just stuff you.
- The stage is huge, for tech-chasing
- harder to combo her (unless they DI wrong), or pin her down because of lack of platforms.
- free knockdowns for sheik at all times, with no platforms to combo-break her, or for you to edge-cancel.
- etc.

Raynex's points:


-No platforms for her to camp on
-Flat stage means solid damage from waveshines/uthrow/usmash,with no interference

-Knocking Sheik into the air is a huge plus, and with nothing between the two of you as she's falling, getting extra hits and resuming pressure is easier

-Edge-guard punishes have the potential to be more vicious. Again, no interference from platforms and stage size assists you in forming big fancy waveshine combos that start killing at lower percents.

-Camping is especially good on this stage as Fox vs. Sheik. She isn't mean to be aggressive. If she runs towards you and initiates contact, she risks getting hit by a single shine and ending up cornered on either side of FD with 20-30% more damage. (Or above you with no way down)

-Full-hopping becomes a lot scarier for Sheik. Nothing to land on, and if you somehow get her with an utilt/usmash/uair she's above you and ****ed.

-------------------------------------

I should point out that Unknown's analysis omits the possibility of the Fox playing defensively. For example, her walling you means little in this context - you can simply laser her until she smartens up and stops. Platforms to move around her wouldn't be 'that' necessary either. If you hold your ground and make her come to you, it's to your advantage.

It could honestly go either way though. Unknown spoke of many things I forgot were a problem vs. Sheik.

 

[Wenbobular]

Do I just play Cruise weird then haha

I pick Cruise because it just seems easier to get under them and poke them with Uairs from below / Nair them from the side in the weird transition after the boat

Then once you get past the weird pendulum platform thing you get a super low ceiling for cheap Uair / Usmash kills

 

[RaynEX]

Do I just play Cruise weird then haha

Not at all.

My opinion is not the be all end all. I try to say "I suggest" as much as I can to stress its simply my view on the matter.

Attacking characters from below with uairs and the like is a great strategy. Now that I think about it, that's probably where you should try to be most of the match. But if you somehow get above them keep in mind they're looking for the same **** you just mentioned. Guess I forgot that Fox can stay below and do the same thing.

 

[Wenbobular]

Fox is so fast though
Although I'd probably be hesitant taking Falcon to this stage
Then again my Fox style of just Nair seems to only be effective vs Falcon so I'd probably just take him to a less weird stage xD

 

[Brookman]

Test concept VS. Falco: When falco moves in with lasers Dash away, Space In shield for BAIR (this should be attempted at various distances from too to close - far enough away to space bair shffl and fsmash while being hard to punish. The trick is going to be getting very good and jumping out the shield vs. the lasers stun. To do this I suggest the C stick. Should be easy enough to buffer jump with C up and then bair with C left, no.?? Then L cancel with your shield button and react appropriately.

I am really close to actively recording in this game, I just need to find time/recording set up's power supply.

 

[Wenbobular]

Your recording setup needs a power supply o.O

If you buffer jump with Cstick and Bair then your Bair autocancels doesn't it xD

 

[Kanelol]

Your recording setup needs a power supply o.O

If you buffer jump with Cstick and Bair then your Bair autocancels doesn't it xD

what why

/10what'sanautocancel

 

[Wenbobular]

The move ends before you hit the ground so you like ... don't need to L-cancel it. Hence, autocancel.

Just try fullhopping Bairs with Fox or shorthopping Bairs as Falco (do them immediately after you leave the ground)

 

[Brookman]

I'm sorry, but I'm not suggesting you full jump. Fox's bair does not auto inside his short hop. Besides, L cancel is plain better

 

[Kanelol]

yeah i thought he meant it auto'd inside a short hop

which is stupid of me because he said buffer out of shield with the c-stick, and you can't short hop, or buffer a short hop, for that matter, with the c-stick

 

[Brookman]

You can most certainly short hop with the c-stick, you boob.

 

[Wenbobular]

Man, if you can buffer shortup OoS that's awesome. Frankly I had no idea, but I guess I shouldn't be terribly surprised.

That being said, I think most people can't buffer short hop OoS xD I'm gonna go try that right now actually...

 

[Kanelol]

You can most certainly short hop with the c-stick, you boob.

Are you trying to break my heart right now