Let's talk.

[Brookman]

bair alot too

and always walljump tech the dsmash when ledgeteching it cuz from my experience a regular ledgetech gets u ***** anyway lol silly peach

bairs are kinda iffy in the match. Even if you space it well it can still be cc down smashed.

As for teching the down smash, if peach times it correctly she can hit you with the first or second hit of downsmash, and one of the later hits will still be out when you become vulnerable if you try to forward b the edge.

 

[Ryan-K]

Sorry I didn't clarify but I meant bair beats most of her moves in priority iirc.

 

[mikeHAZE]

So i actually have a question against approaching a peach.


I played this peach from socal this weekend, he's ranked and really good. I got really close, and i camped like a mo fo, but everytime i approached he would just space dash dances, so i couldn't hit him or grab him, thus making it hard for me to kill him. I tried doing aerials from platforms, but even then he was still really smart about it.

What do you guys do for this?

 

[Oskurito]

So i actually have a question against approaching a peach.


I played this peach from socal this weekend, he's ranked and really good. I got really close, and i camped like a mo fo, but everytime i approached he would just space dash dances, so i couldn't hit him or grab him, thus making it hard for me to kill him. I tried doing aerials from platforms, but even then he was still really smart about it.

What do you guys do for this?

I suggest that you don't aproach until he's on pretty high %es. Just keep camping and hope he will aproach before you, that or either full jump nair trying to guess were he'll be (then grab or shine).

 

[Brookman]

So i actually have a question against approaching a peach.


I played this peach from socal this weekend, he's ranked and really good. I got really close, and i camped like a mo fo, but everytime i approached he would just space dash dances, so i couldn't hit him or grab him, thus making it hard for me to kill him. I tried doing aerials from platforms, but even then he was still really smart about it.

What do you guys do for this?

You have actually answered your own question, believe it or not.

"I got really close, and i camped like a mo fo, but everytime i approached he would just space dash dances"

You just told us all how predictable this guy is. Just expect them to dash away, and perform your aerial for where they're going. Also, you don't have to attack, after you are done shooting lasers and building percent you need to get in the *****es face and pressure her like hell. When she messes up just up smash the *****.

OR

Expect her to dash back and just run passed where she is to where she is going and up smash her. It's risky, but they won't know what the **** to do about it at first.

I recomend this tactic vs everyone who dash dances.

I suggest that you don't aproach until he's on pretty high %es. Just keep camping and hope he will aproach before you, that or either full jump nair trying to guess were he'll be (then grab or shine).

full jump nair is the dumbest thing you could do, I think. FALCO can CC shine your nair up into the 70s depending on how weak it is. Like I said above, angry over shot aerials.

Dash dance in the *****es face, put pressure on them, but be ready to shield a dash attack from peach. Remember that you're still playing the game, and don't be desperate for kills, you'll get your shot. If you are patient and you push them to the edge to decrease their options they're going to roll or jump or side step or something stupid, an dthen you kill them. Basically.

My favorite game vs peach is called "Time" a player from CT introduced it to me.

This game works like this: You laser peach till she is at kill percent (varies by stage)

Then you up smash through any approach she tries on you, and win.

She's not approaching/trying to attack you?? That means you're not close enough.

Any more questions?

 

[Oskurito]

This game works like this: You laser peach till she is at kill percent (varies by stage)

Then you up smash through any approach she tries on you, and win.

She's not approaching/trying to attack you?? That means you're not close enough.

Any more questions?

Too good. I got owned

edit: does it works with other chars too?

 

[Brookman]

Too good. I got owned

edit: does it works with other chars too?

It works especially well vs. peach because she is slow, and you can really just ignore her and run away as much as you want.

Besides peach though, it doesn't really work well vs other characters so much as different players.

If your opponent doesn't understand that you can approach people with out directly attacking them to put pressure on them then you'll be able to just laser camp and punish every stupid approach they make.

 

[Oskurito]

ok. I have a question (seems like you arent busy right?)

Ok, how can I deal with falcon and ganon (and every other char that has an attack that stuns you r shield too much) well spaced aerials, because everytime I try to grab, I grab the air or get jabed, or when I roll backwards I still get screwed (raptor boost or wizard's foot, or..... samus grapple beam? lol).

 

[Brookman]

ok. I have a question (seems like you arent busy right?)

Ok, how can I deal with falcon and ganon (and every other char that has an attack that stuns you r shield too much) well spaced aerials, because everytime I try to grab, I grab the air or get jabed, or when I roll backwards I still get screwed (raptor boost or wizard's foot, or..... samus grapple beam? lol).

Try wavedashing backwards into your shield, that way you'll shield a wizard foot/raptor boost and you can side step a grapple beam (I'm not really sure how good this will be, but you should at least try it).

If they're using wizard foot and **** on your roll that just means you're predictable. Have you ever tried just sitting in your shield for a second, or jumping out after the jabs? Or jumping out? There isn't just ONE thing you can do in any given situation, and when you understand how to mix up your safer options (don't just do things randomly) you'll be able to stay safe by keeping them guessing.

If falcon doesn't do the gentlemen and just does one or two tap a's you can CC grab him after he hits your shield.

Against falcon you can up tilt through basically everyone of his aerial approaches. If he hits your shield with nair/fair and isn't spaced you can count on them to just tap a or gentlemen your shield. If they only do tap a's then you can CC grab out of your shield, if they do gentlemen or rapid a's you can just roll behind/away from them in that situation.

There isn't much you can do to punish people when they shuffle your shield correctly, or space from you well, and it would be best to just try and gtfo so you can regain an advantageous position over them.

 

[Oskurito]

Try wavedashing backwards into your shield, that way you'll shield a wizard foot/raptor boost and you can side step a grapple beam. If they're using wizard foot and **** on your roll that just means you're predictable. Have you ever tried just sitting in your shield for a second, or jumping out after the jabs?

Against falcon you can up tilt through basically everyone of his aerial approaches. If he hits your shield with nair/fair and isn't spaced you can count on them to just tap a or gentlemen your shield, and you can just roll behind/away from them in that situation. There isn't much you can do to punish people when they shuffle your shield correctly, or space from you well, and it would be best to just try and gtfo so you can regain an advantageous position over them.

Hmm that's right, I always rolled =/. And yeah I know... is always gentlemen or A,A,grab. Thanks for the rest of the advice. I need some more for my smashfest on this saturday

 

[Brookman]

Hmm that's right, I always rolled =/. And yeah I know... is always gentlemen or A,A,grab. Thanks for the rest of the advice. I need some more for my smashfest on this saturday

If you're in your shield and falcon approaches with nairs on it you can up smash out of your shield and it basically ***** him. Just have to be careful cause people will start trying to bait this.

It works well on fox's shuffle nair approach as well.

and I edited my previous post if you didn't notice.

 

[Miharu]

If you're in your shield and falcon approaches with nairs on it you can up smash out of your shield and it basically ***** him. Just have to be careful cause people will start trying to bait this.

It works well on fox's shuffle nair approach as well.

and I edited my previous post if you didn't notice.

Falcon can't jab immediately after the nair? Or does usmash outprioritize that anyways?

 

[Brookman]

Falcon can't jab immediately after the nair? Or does usmash outprioritize that anyways?

I mean you can upsmash the actual nair while it's out. Up smash is too good >_>

 

[Miharu]

I mean you can upsmash the actual nair while it's out. Up smash is too good >_>

As in between 1st and 2nd hits? Never thought of that >_>

 

[Brookman]

Not between the kicks, up smash will go through falcon's nair, or trade with it. It's just that when you are sitting in your shield fox/falcon like to nair into it and you can just beat/tie their nairs with up smash. It's like how sheik/marth can grab fox out of his nair.

Up smash is a retardedly good move.

Up tilt is also a really good move.

Nair to up tilt > nair to shine.

Nair to up smash is awesome too.

 

[Mew2King]

ya at viva la smash since i had no tech skill and pc was moving way way faster than me i managed to win by relying on timed up smashes through his nair. If I miss the up smash I'm prepared to do CC shine.

 

[RaynEX]

^ I don't CC much with Fox. I guess I should start.

 

[Oskurito]

Nice. I'll try that at fox dittos

 

[RaynEX]

Anyone have combo ideas or general strategies vs. an ftilt spammy Sheik.

Theres one that I play that has been giving me trouble lately. He keeps WDing back and ftilting my nairs and fullhop approaches. Also, as soon as he gets a dthrow, its like instant 60 dmg.

Regardless of how I try to trick him with my teching, he always gets me.

I'd really appreciate random advice on any aspect of the Fox vs. Sheik matchup.

 

[Miharu]

Do empty shorthops/fulljumps to bait him into WDing back, etc, then you can WD backwards, or just land and do another SH, etc.

Camp him with lasers excessively, and CC all the ftilts and so on.

That's about all I've got.

 

[Brookman]

Anyone have combo ideas or general strategies vs. an ftilt spammy Sheik.

Theres one that I play that has been giving me trouble lately. He keeps WDing back and ftilting my nairs and fullhop approaches. Also, as soon as he gets a dthrow, its like instant 60 dmg.

Regardless of how I try to trick him with my teching, he always gets me.

I'd really appreciate random advice on any aspect of the Fox vs. Sheik matchup.

full jump over-shot down air. Dair will cut through f tilt at that angle, and you can anticipate the wavedash backward.

I think that's the most important thing to learn, wavedashing/dash dancing = predictable.

Laser camp, of course. Up throw combos...have you tried not teching?? videos?

That's another thing, if anyone wants to post videos I'll watch and comment on them...

 

[Cort]

Laser spamming a campy Sheik = LOL

What do campy Sheiks do when they're forced to approach?

edit// They lose/cry

 

[Oskurito]

All of you guys should watch this (exept raynex)

epic/funny?

edit: @brookman: If you're feeling to give advice watch this, or if you have more time go here

 

[RaynEX]

Thanks Hydro and Brookman, I'll try that stuff out. I never thought to CC the ftilts...or think on ways to predict and counter his WD.

Here are some vids of past matches to help you guys give more detailed advice.



GRAND FINALS: (BTW mind the bad music. I didn't personal know or choose the songs. : /)

Round 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgIXxzXo5wI


Round 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkhAV448zFw&feature=related

Round 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teXUyjhlFn4&feature=related

 

[takieddine]

All of you guys should watch this (exept raynex)

epic/funny?

edit: @brookman: If you're feeling to give advice watch this, or if you have more time go here

I thought you were a bit too aggressive, but that works out well in the Falcon matchup. Nevertheless I thought you should have stopped shot a few lasers, made him approach you etc..

Edit: I forgot to comment on the marth video.

It was pretty awesome but you probably could have used the fan for even more comboing

 

[Brookman]

I've been busy with holiday stuff. I'll check the videos out sometime this week.

I hate playing against falcos. I'm really pathetic vs. falco, I need to work on mah game yo.

I just can't compete with them. I can't out camp them and I can't keep control in close combat vs falco very well either...I am just gonna start playing marth for falco's

Also, I lost to a doctor mario at esticle this passed weekend. Does anyone have experience in that match up?

 

[Oskurito]

Also, I lost to a doctor mario at esticle this passed weekend. Does anyone have experience in that match up?

Nope, just one thing: when you're trying to recover with fire fox from below the stage in a 90° angle you can shine turn around before fire foxing on to the stage so if he capes you, you'll grab the edge normally, if not then you'll have to tech =/ or get baired/owned. Also you can tech the cape into insta illusion (not that I've done it but I've seen it) but that's absurdly unreliable

Nair to shine does **** doc a lot.

Why don't learn falco too? he's fun to play, marth vs. falco is even imo.

 

[SCOTU]

doctor mario is a matchup i've had trouble with (and still do), but an effective way to kill is w/ a drillshine>usmash. The 2 other really important things are: 1) fox's bair always trades/ wins against doc's up-b. 2) ban FD if they're a chainthrowy doc, it's also a pretty good ban even if they aren't.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Also, I lost to a doctor mario at esticle this passed weekend. Does anyone have experience in that match up?

I've got a bit of experience in this one, however in order to help I'd need to know what kind of problems you specifically have. Speaking in general you definitely should watch out for his gay edgeguard and manage not to get grabbed. Apart from this Doc is slower, less ranged and there are several ways for Fox to overwhelm his moves in close combat so it shouldn't be that much of a problem. If your problem are pills cut in with a Nair, you should be able to destroy the pill and hit Doc as well since he'll be trapped in the lag. Watch out for his CC, in order to stop it use either grabs or Uair/Dair. Full jump + Dair/Uair works pretty well most of the time in my personal experience but try not overusing it. Take advantage of his overall lower speed and wait for the right moment to attack. There are a lot of ways for Fox to screw Doc, expecially if he's in the air, using Bair or Utilt for example. Once he's off edge he is easy to edgeguard. I'm pretty sure he's very vulnerable to shinespikes but I never manage to shinespike Doc so I usually use either Bairs or Dsmashes in order to kill him.

Changing the topic I have problems getting past Falco's lasers. Sure, everybody does but I'm pretty sure you Americans have more experience than me.. what do you usually do? is there something in particular you found very useful?

 

[Ryan-K]

I like to full jump nair / bair

you can dash into shield if ur a decent distance away

running powershields help you advance and are pretty simple to do with basic practice (it doesnt take long to get the tech down against a level 7 computer falco on fd)

if you're a hardcore nukka you can sh a shine to trip up his momentum lol

 

[knightpraetor]

Oh yeah, another thing I see way too often that Fox players do concerning recovering:

Up b'ing close to the stage. It's a really dumb habit I see pretty often. It's just shouting "HEY, COME HERE AND HIT ME. I WANT TO DIE!" People should be more conscious of where they are starting their up b. This also works against certain Marth styles (particularly Mew2King or my style against Foxes with Marth, I think they're somewhat similar since M2K steals all my shnoz ) After being tap a'd/countered/what have you, most Foxes will up b as soon as they can, but it's usually much smarter and safer to (I've seen KDJ do this: ) shine first, wait to see what the Marth does, then drop down and up b spaced so that Marth cannot reach you without endangering his own recovery. It will save your stocks, and that's a good idea, no? The shine is fairly optional, but it really throws the Marth off sometimes.

hmm, cort, isn't the shine going to get you killed if they plan to come off after you..i get the feeling you mean go low enough that it's difficult to edgeguard you..but if they save their jump they should be able to over-b (as marth) to jump to up+B to the ledge regardless at most positions you can recover from right?

except maybe the straight up 90 degree position..i guess if you go to the bottom there they might not be able to make it..but i thought most angles they can...

and shining gives the marth more time to get to you..i always thought the best option was to fall far and fast and then immediately up+B at a low point and hope marth doesn't reach you in time

alternatively the marth can drop low and then fair while DIing backwards then up+b..i'm not completely sure if that is better or worse in terms of saving height compared to the over-b.

anyways those were just my thoughts

 

[takieddine]

Against doc (and pretty much every other character), shuffle nair reverse uptilt is raaaape.

Challenge with upsmash, you'll most likely win, unless its like dair or something. Even though it impossible to uthrow uair, try it anyways, many times you'll get nice positioning so you'll hit with the detached hitbox of the second hit.

you can dsmash his recovery, use invincible shinespikes.

of course this is all stuff you already do/know, but i thought it should be emphasized.

this is @ brookman.

 

[darkshy]

something I noticed most people in general do is when samus hits you with a full hop nair they don't DI and try to counter attack and end up getting hit with another nair. So maybe we should change this?

 

[Brookman]

Against doc (and pretty much every other character), shuffle nair reverse uptilt is raaaape.

Challenge with upsmash, you'll most likely win, unless its like dair or something. Even though it impossible to uthrow uair, try it anyways, many times you'll get nice positioning so you'll hit with the detached hitbox of the second hit.

you can dsmash his recovery, use invincible shinespikes.

of course this is all stuff you already do/know, but i thought it should be emphasized.

this is @ brookman.

lol, thanks for giving me some credit xD Honestly though I don't really know much about the match up other than no up throw up air and shine up smash combos..

 

[knightpraetor]

just nair through the pills and nair to jab to nair i think works wells...i really don't know much about it either..just camp so they pill and then nair through the pills..that's literally my approach

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Lol Nair>Shine works on like everybody xD. Follow with more shines into Uthrow/Usmash or whatever. If they fall, then pull off some Thunders' shizzy.

 

[technomancer]

Nair usmash and nair grab are golden too, don't get predictable kids.

 

[Cort]

Wouldn't jabbing doc be pretty useless? As well as misspaced nairs?

lul crouch canceling?

 

[knightpraetor]

i meant more along the lines of when you're juggling with the nair they tend to be in front of you with just a little height..i guess you might be able to just nair to nair a bunch but sometimes i pop them up higher with a jab

don't do it on the ground though..

anyways cort answer my post above..i'm probably wrong about it...

also, i've been trying to practice off the edge edgeguarding with marth on fox since i rarely use the dancing blade off the edge...

but i find that if the comp starts the firefox early and i'm running off the ledge i often get caught by the fire before i can DI far enough out (they are close in), so instead i can jump off the ledge and then jump to the dancing blade, but that takes so much time because of the whole hopping over part that the firefox may activate and get away first...

two ways to punish it that i see..one is to just turn around and try to to WD to the ledge and if you're lucky get the invuln and then just spike..

though i'm guessing what i should just do is cancel my run off when i see the firefox that close and just fsmash cause there is no way they can sweetspot at that angle..or counter if you don't have enough time to space..but they may tech then...

anyways what would you go for?

 

[Hylian]

Uthrow Bair Docs >_>. They almost always DI horribly.