[Left 4 Scum] Game Over: Scum Win

[Mediocre]

I don't see what's wrong with KevinM's "claim" at all.

There are no power roles. The mafia knows who each other are. There's nothing for them to gain by seeing our role PMs.

On the other hand, we don't gain anything either. If I bet, I would place money on Tom giving the Infected fake Survivor role PMs to quote. Even without power roles, something as simple as a PM not being written in Tom's style could give a mafiosa away.

So, really, I see Kevin's claim as neither beneficial nor harmful to the town.

It's not a big deal, so let's ignore it and move on.


Yes, I am playing this game. Sorry for my inactivity at the start of the game. But not too sorry, since I seem to have avoided RVS.

 

[Circus]

I'm feeling rather perplexed.

Hey, you used the same word I did! That's... actually, kinda weird.

I didn't comment on this when Mayling proposed it before because I figured it was obv. silly, but since others seem to find value in it, let me try to squash it quick.

The rhyming thing is null. Cello apperently rhymed in the confirmation stage, I rhymed in the confirmation stage without even really noticing I did it, and then I rhymed again in RVS (this time, noticing that I did so and joking around with it). I do not see how this could possibly be an effective way for mafia to breadcrum anything to each other, especially since I directed attention toward one of my rhymes out in the open. That's pretty much contradictory to the idea of breadcruming. Not that I'm not glad people are looking for that kind of thing; I'm actually super happy to see that. But let's look for real stuff.

Why did you claim kevin... No one else claim, or say anything about it for that matter, be it a comparison of similarity or disimilarity. No need to give scum any more information to create fake claims with.

Seriously? This is Tom we're talking about. Was breaking the game through a roleclaim ever going to work? The scum in this game are infected survivors. They were normal people with lives before the zombie apocalypse, just like the rest of us. Not only would I expect Tom to provide safe claims for the mafia, I actually think it makes less sense for him not to do so, flavor-wise. The more I look at you, Ronike, the more it looks like you're trying to psuedo-town it up.

Though I do agree that we shouldn't massclaim because I don't want to wait around for 17 people to claim **** that isn't going to be helpful to us anyway. So, back to using D1 to our advantage or whatever it is I said.

Vote: FrozenFlame because you're scary and hard to read and I don't want to follow the Gheb wagon because I'm not a robot sheep conformist douchebag.

Slight ninja by Medi. I forgot you were even in this game.

 

[Circus]

Okay, so the ninja wasn't that slight. I was working on that post for a while, okay?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A bandwagon? Oh well...

unvote vote Kataefi

 

[Kataefi]

oh thanks gheb...

I didn't see that much value in mayling's post, I just found it an interesting read. This is more directed @CIrcus than anyone else. I'm quite intrigued in finding any connections between people's posts that show any underlying form of communication.

Kevin claiming is also a little too quick for me, but I dunno... it's a very black and white game right now with no power roles.

The scum in this game are infected survivors. They were normal people with lives before the zombie apocalypse, just like the rest of us. Not only would I expect Tom to provide safe claims for the mafia, I actually think it makes less sense for him not to do so, flavor-wise.

Yes I can definitely see this - I think infected survivors would have a backstory written in the past tense. It's interesting because Kevin's claim has a comical element to it with the whole 'excuse to use her husband's gun' thing. If that were converted from the past tense I think the comic element would be erased, so I'm inclinced to think its genuine, unless faked... meh

 

[Ronike]

Circus, although you have a point, there's no reason not to assume best case scenario here and think they don't have safeclaims. I mean come on, we lose nothing by COMPLETELY ignoring it, so lets drop it. We can pick it up later if we want.

Moving right along.

Yes I can definitely see this - I think infected survivors would have a backstory written in the past tense. It's interesting because Kevin's claim has a comical element to it with the whole 'excuse to use her husband's gun' thing. If that were converted from the past tense I think the comic element would be erased, so I'm inclinced to think its genuine, unless faked... meh

Thanks for providing the mafia with more info to fake a role. This is exactly what I said NOT to do. Unvote Vote: Kataefi

Fine with gheb, mac, or katae lynch.

 

[mentosman8]

Haha Ronike, as much as I would normally agree with you, this is Tom we're talking about. I remember him telling me(haven't had a chance to read it) in Disney mafia the players were allowed to quote role pms, but mafia also had/could get from him fake ones. Of all people here, Tom would NOT let mod pm's be quoted if it could break the game. Just my two cents worth.

 

[Ronike]

Still no reason to talk about it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

just like to say that i am really happy this is an open game.

 

[Kataefi]

Ronike... faking roles is in the OP of this thread. It's part of the rules. Infected people with half a brain cell would not quote their true PM roles unless they wanted to out themselves. I see no problem with what I said at all, sorry!

Though to be honest, I find it a tad suspicious of how jumpy you've been in this game so far. Probably any excuse to vote though as it's early D1.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ignore roles yo. noone should ever need to claim. **** is pointless. Kevin is kevin. His actual claim doesn't prove anything. what you should take not of is the fact that he decided to claim. What would his motives as scum and as town be in claiming. blah blah

 

[Circus]

ignore roles yo. noone should ever need to claim. **** is pointless. Kevin is kevin. His actual claim doesn't prove anything. what you should take not of is the fact that he decided to claim. What would his motives as scum and as town be in claiming. blah blah

This. I've actually been batting around the idea of KevinscuM posting his role early in an attempt to appear super townie, but I don't know how much weight there is to that thought since it seems like roleclaims would inevitably be deemed superfluous (as it appears we have agreed upon now). Surely Kevin would think of that, if he would even consider that tactic in the first place. But if that's not the reason for his claim, then it just seems arbitrary. Something to consider by people who are more intuitive than I, I suppose.

@Mayling: How do you feel about Ronike and Kevin respectively? What do their actions say to you?

@McFox: How serious is your suspicion of Gheb? You were on him before there was a wagon.

@Vyse: Posting your zombie apocalypse plans doesn't actually clear you. Speak up. Quiet players make me hella nervous.

 

[McFox]

Not really that suspicious of Gheb for now. It was more of an excuse to RVS vote him.

Unvote

Vote: Ronike

 

[Xiivi]

Can we decide which of Ronike/Gheb we're lynching? we can lynch Circus too, I'd be down for that.

 

[Tom]

Vote Count:
[7] Not Voting (Chaco, Kataefi, Mediocre, mentosman8, Vyse, Pythag, Cello_Marl)
[3] Gheb_01 (Ronike, Marsh King, Xiivi)
[3] Ronike (frozenflame, Macman, McFox)
[1] frozenflame751 (Circus)
[1] Cello_Marl (Mayling)
[1] Pythag (KevinM)
[1] Vyse (Sold2)
[0] Mayling ()
[0] Circus ()
[0] Chaco ()
[0] Kataefi (Gheb_01)
[0] KevinM ()
[0] Macman ()
[0] McFox ()
[0] Mediocre ()
[0] mentosman8 ()
[0] Sold2 ()
[0] The Marsh King ()
[0] Xiivi ()

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 16th, Noon EST.

 

[Xiivi]

Ronike is voting Kataefi along with Gheb.

 

[The Marsh King]

Still no reason to talk about it.

yep

why the switch to ronike mcfox?

marshy

 

[Ronike]

Thats supposed to be in bold silly.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This. I've actually been batting around the idea of KevinscuM posting his role early in an attempt to appear super townie, but I don't know how much weight there is to that thought since it seems like roleclaims would inevitably be deemed superfluous (as it appears we have agreed upon now). Surely Kevin would think of that, if he would even consider that tactic in the first place. But if that's not the reason for his claim, then it just seems arbitrary. Something to consider by people who are more intuitive than I, I suppose.

The more important question to me here is why Kevin would play so obviously with the "wine in front of me" in the first place. I think the question whether he posted it to prove himself as a townie or if it's a scumbag's attempt to look townie is irrelevant. It's the fact that Kevin - intentional or not - makes us concerned with such things that rubs me the wrong way.

Not really that suspicious of Gheb for now. It was more of an excuse to RVS vote him.

Unvote

Vote: Ronike

Eh, I don't think more people should hop on Ronike for now. Even though I disagree with his idea of ending D1 quickly I think he means well and we shouldn't wagon one of the most vocal players at this stage. We're getting our first leads out of the RVS which is very good for town but also a good opportunity for scum to slip under the radar. Assuming that we're going to trust incaptivated players toMorrow it would be better to not let that happen or else they'll be lacking information on certain players. In a game this big and with such mechanics it seems almost mandatory to me to be concerned with everybody's activity at almost any stage of the game. Right now it seems useless to wagon the most vocal player when most players have not been talked about. If you really keep on wagoning the same players it's way too easy for others to play it too safe without being noticed. Example:

Can we decide which of Ronike/Gheb we're lynching? we can lynch Circus too, I'd be down for that.

How long are we going to deal with this fluff, mentos/frozens lurkiness, phytag/mediocre/etc lack of input before we stop wagoning the wrong players?

Unvote Vote Mentosman

 

[Ronike]

Still no reason to talk about it.

Oh and also, saying you don't want to lynch me because I'm vocal, although a very appreciated thought, is prolly not a reason to not lynch me. Similar to the "Tom are teh awesome, we shouldn't lynch him ever" argument that is far too often employed

 

[McFox]

Actually

Unvote

Vote: Sold2

As much as I like seeing new players, he has yet to say anything of value at all, unless you count

Ronike, mind me asking you to finish your original sentence? The one that begins with "But... I...".

and

Oh. I'm not going to ask you to stop saying ugh, but it'd be great if you didn't use it block format.

Which I don't.

 

[McFox]

EBWOP: Also, his joke vote on Vyse is still there, despite the fact that Vyse is clear.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Oh and also, saying you don't want to lynch me because I'm vocal, although a very appreciated thought, is prolly not a reason to not lynch me. Similar to the "Tom are teh awesome, we shouldn't lynch him ever" argument that is far too often employed

I assume this is in response to me? If so then I'd like to point out that I never said we shouldn't lynch you becuase of that. I said we shouldn't wagon the wrong people.

Unvote Vote sold2

 

[DtJ S2n]

I don't particularly like being lynched, so I'll contribute for you.

Ronike, in my opinion, is the most suspicious person as of now. No reason for him to be that surprised about a role claim. It's not traditional, but I thought it was already implied that roleclaims meant very little before the game even started. No power roles, meaning that no matter who it is, unless they're joking/crazy, they're going to claim survivor. Also, I don't understand why he was wanting to end day 1 quickly. As said by Circus, day 1 is time we can use, even if it's harder to produce good evidence from it. Also, no power roles. So what would town gain by just ending the day? We'd learn who the scum targeted? That's great and all... but now we have people who are dying. Can't save them all. It wouldn't be good for the town to just have 4 townies(likely the ones considered the best townies, too) dying.

Unvote, Vote Ronike

My vote was sitting on Vyse because I felt it was the same difference if I was to just leave it sitting there. One vote does not matter, in my opinion. Vyse is no where close to getting lynched. Vyse is also a pirate.

 

[Ronike]

Still no reason to talk about it.

The point of the matter is, on the off chance that zombies don't have safe claims, we shouldn't needlessly provide them with one. The reason why I was so "surprised" (not exactly the word for it, but w/e) is because several people had previously said to not claim.

 

[Pythag]

How long are we going to deal with this fluff, mentos/frozens lurkiness, phytag/mediocre/etc lack of input before we stop wagoning the wrong players?
[/B]

As long as you keep changing your vote every single time, you're merely contributing to the "fluff"

Ronike is potentially most suspicious because he's been the one of the more vocal players. The more you talk the more you anyone can form an argument against you. especially on D1.

I know I took my vote off of him, but seriously, I'm kind of getting scared of frozenflame. I'm pretty sure he's only posted like twice, and from such a smart player as that..that kinda makes me feel uneasy.

 

[Mediocre]

Ronike, your jumpiness is odd.

Is there any underlying cause to it?

 

[Ronike]

Tests are causing stress, studying is causing boredom, mechanics make me excited, and IWBTG is causing excess anger.

Pythag, I can't tell if you're defending me, or calling me suspicious. I think its the former, but feel free to correct me.

 

[Mayling]

@Mayling: How do you feel about Ronike and Kevin respectively? What do their actions say to you?

I thought it was suspicious that Ronike wanted to end day one early. Then again, this game is very different too. We learn a lot after d1 has ended. (We clear four people. Neato! ) But then... to suggest speeding up and ending d1 seemed sloppy... Like, obviously it's sort of a scummy thing to suggest, right? So, he didn't think of the consequences of suggesting it? So if he didn't think of the consequences... maybe he didn't think the action was scummy. So maybe he's a townie thinking what he suggested is best for town.

As for as Kevin? I don't know... I thought about quoting my PM too when I saw that we could. So I can't say I fault him for doing it. I thought if we all quoted, we could tell whose Tom wrote and whose he didn't. But then, since Tom probably gave everyone fake ones, there's no sense in doing it now. It would just be funny to see what Tom wrote for everyone. And that'd be an easy way to break the game, and no fun at all.. so I suppose I should have known people had backups.

 

[Tom]

Vote Count:
[7] Not Voting (Chaco, Kataefi, Mediocre, mentosman8, Vyse, Pythag, Cello_Marl)
[3] Ronike (frozenflame, Macman, Sold2)
[2] Gheb_01 (Marsh King, Xiivi)
[2] Sold2 (McFox, Gheb_01)
[1] Kataefi (Ronike)
[1] frozenflame751 (Circus)
[1] Cello_Marl (Mayling)
[1] Pythag (KevinM)
[0] Vyse ()
[0] mentosman8 ()
[0] Mayling ()
[0] Circus ()
[0] Chaco ()
[0] KevinM ()
[0] Macman ()
[0] McFox ()
[0] Mediocre ()
[0] The Marsh King ()
[0] Xiivi ()

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 16th, Noon EST.

 

[KevinM]

I'm down for lynching Ronike.

 

[mentosman8]

I don't know about Ronike, kind of feeling both ways there. Also, I'd really like to hear some more from FF, none of the coasting-to-endgame without saying much he pulled in FF7. Not sure if it's a scumtell or not, but it's definitely not something that he should continue doing.

Vote: FrozenScum

 

[Xiivi]

Frozen is inactigone in the other games I'm in with him. meh

unvote:

If you guys ever actually bandwagon one of Gheb or Ronike instead of vote hopping between inactives in a game full of survivors I'll rejoin you.

Circus is also a great candidate

vote: circus

there, maybe you guys want to lynch him
I know I do

 

[Vyse]

@Vyse: Posting your zombie apocalypse plans doesn't actually clear you. Speak up. Quiet players make me hella nervous.

Sorry sorry, been catching up on games the last two days

First of all, a quick lynch without MUCH discussion is a bad idea. We need to wait til everybody has some kind of record to be held accountable for here, otherwise the knowledge we get from tommorrow will be for naught.

What is the point of tommorrow if we have nothing to go on? If the day quickly, we'd start tommorrow still in a half RVS, half shooting in the dark play. I would really like to transition into informed arguements before we enter day 2.

@Circus: Do you disagree?

@Ronike: Do you disagree?

@Sold2: What did Sky Pirates ever do to you? Your airship get plundered or something when you were a kid?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

As long as you keep changing your vote every single time, you're merely contributing to the "fluff"

What? How is "changing votes a lot" related to the "contributing to the fluff?"? I highly doubt that you even know the purpose of / thoughts behind my votes.

 

[Ronike]

Vyse, I didn't actually post that... In fact, I've been one of the few players NOT going after inactives...

 

[Vyse]

Vyse, I didn't actually post that... In fact, I've been one of the few players NOT going after inactives...

Wow, wtf. How did that screw up?

I have a habit of hitting multiquote on everything I think might be worth discussing and somehow when I was picking that quote out, I must've screwed with something

The original question still stands though. You two are pretty popular, which is why I posed the question.

 

[KevinM]

Unvote
Vote Circus

Wagon time!

 

[Pythag]

What? How is "changing votes a lot" related to the "contributing to the fluff?"? I highly doubt that you even know the purpose of / thoughts behind my votes.

There you go... "contributing" again.
absolutely I don't know the purpose of / thoughts behind your "oh so clever" votes, because you have failed to mention any reason aside from "wagon?"

If you guys ever actually bandwagon one of Gheb or Ronike instead of vote hopping between inactives in a game full of survivors I'll rejoin you.

I'm fine with this
vote Gheb

 

[Mayling]

Don't hurt me, it's just a suggestion

Would no lynch be a possibility? I tried to play out different scenerios in my head and this is what I came up with.

This is no lynching:

14 -> 10->11
4 -> 4 -> 4

Day 2, we end with this many people.

11->7->8
4 -> 4 -> 4

Day 3, we end with this many people. (Well, we would probably vote this day, not no lynch.)
8->4->5
4 -> 4 -> 4

Mislynching looks something like this: It's just super lame.
14->13->9->10->9->5->6
4-> 4->4->4->4->4->4

Obviously the best scenerio for town is to get a zombie... because it's going to lower how many people they can incap at night...

So what I conclude is that we should be 100% positive who we lynch today. Mislynch is really, really bad for us. I think we should rather go no lynch than risk getting a mislynch. But what I'm trying to say is that I think mislynching is worse than it would be in a normal game.

So this wagoning thing is putting me on edge, basically. We need to think things out logically!Although... I'm not quite sure if we're still in the RVS or not. It didn't seem like it. We should take all the time we can on day one.