Leffen is banned!

[Battlecow]

Man I thought this thread was too good to be true

Lemme just say that no one who's as bad of a person as leffen is online could be a good person offline. It just doesn't work like that. He could pretend for a while, but that's it.

If he really is trying to change, credit to him. He needs to. He's obviously a pretty good player and if he could get his **** together, that would be amazing.

Shoutouts to the swedish community, shoutouts to Armada. Good job.

 

[Divinokage]

Telling people to grow up for being offended by something is very poor conduct in and of itself, in my opinion, and it seems there's a chunk of "Leffen supporters" carrying this mantra.

You're just going to go down with him, guys. Buckle up and be nice to others.

Seriously.. Personally, I've even let go one of my close friend because she was constant liar to me and to herself, recently. It hurts a lot, do you really need to constantly feel this way? Hell no, you shut that **** down. Why do you need to have people like this around you? You don't unless you really think it's ok to tolerate this... In that case I would think, you are trash. (Of course talking generally, lol)

In this case, it all depends what kind of standards our community wants.. if it's ok to do whatever you want without any consequences then we won't get very far. Gotta cut the weakest links.

 

[outofphase]

im 100% not encouraging excessive physical confrontation, but it does work. you just cant take it past the point that it achieves its goal. that could be a push, could be plenty more. anybody who thinks physical confrontation doesnt solve problems is naive. not optimal in the least, but certainly a useful tool. if it were me in some of the situations described, and it happened on multiple occasions, i would not lean towards violence. i would not advocate banning him from tournies either. i consider it more a personal matter that just so happens to be in the context of smash. if i had a real talk with him and he kept doing it though, he would get confronted for sure. with somebody like that you cant bluff, and you shouldnt back down.

edit: i feel like banning him from tournies is kind of a kiddie punishment, albeit for childish actions lol

 

[Voltz]

I think I am goung to remain neutral.

 

[InternetDramaOhNoes]

Here is evidence for the things he has done:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/tco6ai

I hope all the TOs consider banning him too!

Hellooooo, nurse. Food for daaayyys.

Good luck to leffen. I hope he decides to be humble and accept this criticism. I really hate to see this kinda thing happen, even if it needs to for the greater good.

 

[leffen]

I'm still pretty lost... I don't really know how to really start approaching this

If someone has any advice, please feel free to PM me/contact me through skype/twitter/fb

thanks.

I don't even know if I WANT to be accepted by the swedish scene anymore. There is so many people who I thought I could trust to speak up if they had a personal problem with me (which I asked people to do several times) but simply went behind my back and acted as if nothing was wrong.

 

[oukd]

out of curiosity, how you guys gonna enforce this anyways

like say he just shows up at a tournament anyways, what'll you guys do? shove him out of the place? ignore him and not let him play? get security to stop him?

 

[BTmoney]

im 100% not encouraging excessive physical confrontation, but it does work. you just cant take it past the point that it achieves its goal. that could be a push, could be plenty more. anybody who thinks physical confrontation doesnt solve problems is naive. not optimal in the least, but certainly a useful tool.... if i had a real talk with him and he kept doing it though, he would get confronted for sure. with somebody like that you cant bluff, and you shouldnt back down.

Do you understand that in both Europe and in the States he has the right to not be assaulted?? I don't think you could quite make a case for inciting hatred either. Not sure how that works in Europe though.


Lol? But you can't be serious.

 

[LivewiresXe]

out of curiosity, how you guys gonna enforce this anyways

like say he just shows up at a tournament anyways, what'll you guys do? shove him out of the place? ignore him and not let him play? get security to stop him?

They can just NOT insert him into brackets and not let him sign up and have everyone refuse to play with him, which wouldn't really give him a reason to be there. And while Leffen is acting lost and like he's surprised and upset by this, almost EVERYBODY that behaves terribly, does a bunch of things wrong, and then gets punished and/or threatened with punishment via callouts for it acts that way. When they act that way, it's also worth noting that they're upset because they got caught, not because of what they did.

 

[Landry]

Time to cancel Mango's trip to Europe. No Armada, no Leffen...

 

[outofphase]

people get their *** kicked all the time, not as big a deal as people make it out to be. plus i doubt it would go to that. usually just confronting them with neutral tone is enough. dont be upset, dont be angry, just be serious. it sounds like leffen could be set straight fairly easily. he apparently has his moments according to some posts. everybody who has a problem with him seems too passive agressive about it. i am very serious, why wouldnt i be?

 

[leffen]

I'm not gonna force myself onto people who don't want me there, come on.

Apparently this ban says "AT LEAST one year, and then we'll see"

so I just realized how much time I have to process this.


@outofphase: no one has even mentioned the fact/told me to stop after they considered banning me about 5 months ago. I spent a LOT of time with Armada, supported him and tried my very best to not be an ***, and yet he didn't even mention that he thought I was behaving ban worthy to others?

 

[Yobolight]

#FreeLeffen

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

There is so many people who I thought I could trust to speak up if they had a personal problem with me (which I asked people to do several times) but simply went behind my back and acted as if nothing was wrong.

Jesus christ, please. Whenever you where confronted you would lie about what you've done, make them out as the bad guy and guilttrip them with lies. You have also started extreme vendettas to people over nothing. With these bullying tactics off course people won't speak up.
And whenever they have, you just attack them.

You're doing the exact same thing to Armada right now.

 

[VoiD-]

It's fine if the Swedes feel the need to ban him. It's completely their prerogative and they know the situation.

However, there's nothing in there that looks like it should convince any other TOs to do the same considering his behavior has been fine at outside events. The OP is mostly non-specific anecdotes and the evidence folder is just mean forum posts. You're going to need more than that to get him banned from other tournaments, I think.

It would be nice if the examples were more specific including dates and maybe quotes from those who were affected, anonymous or otherwise. That would probably be a lot more effectieve than keeping it general.

 

[DoH]

http://meleeitonme.tumblr.com/

 

[leffen]

Armada has blocked me from facebook, and he still owes me a lot of money

I can't reach him, how the **** am I supposed to confront him?

 

[RJ<3]

I approve of this ban! Bullying of this magnitude needs to be suppressed and dealt with HARSHLY!!

 

[outofphase]

i mean thats another disadvantage of being so passive agressive. oftentimes people dont realize exactly the extent of their actions. being direct makes the reality very apparent to them and often diffuses the situation. whether leffen understood the gravity of the situation or not, is another matter i am not fit to touch on. but dont doubt his ability to be delusional haha.

p.s. i think the fighting part of my posts has dominated them too much lol. i dont advocate fighting unless its absolutely proven itself necessary. i advocate direct and serious confrontation, with the intent of compromise, while not being afraid to take things to that level in situations that warrant it.

 

[ShroudedOne]

never had a problem with the guy. personally always enjoyed playing with him when i had the rare chance to do so. and he's always been nice to me, etc.

why can't we all just get along? :|

This is pretty much me. Nothing else to say about the rest, yet.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

It's fine if the Swedes feel the need to ban him. It's completely their prerogative and they know the situation.

However, there's nothing in there that looks like it should convince any other TOs to do the same considering his behavior has been fine at outside events. The OP is mostly non-specific anecdotes and the evidence folder is just mean forum posts. You're going to need more than that to get him banned from other tournaments, I think.

It's not like irl stuff has been recorded with a camera. It's simply the word of the entire swedish smashscene vs leffens word.

Armada has blocked me from facebook, and he still owes me a lot of money

I can't reach him, how the **** am I supposed to confront him?

#1 you should've answered him when he asked for your bank information originally.
#2 you can send your bankinfo in a pm here.

 

[Ziodyne]

im 100% not encouraging excessive physical confrontation, but it does work. you just cant take it past the point that it achieves its goal. that could be a push, could be plenty more. anybody who thinks physical confrontation doesnt solve problems is naive. not optimal in the least, but certainly a useful tool. if it were me in some of the situations described, and it happened on multiple occasions, i would not lean towards violence. i would not advocate banning him from tournies either. i consider it more a personal matter that just so happens to be in the context of smash. if i had a real talk with him and he kept doing it though, he would get confronted for sure. with somebody like that you cant bluff, and you shouldnt back down.

edit: i feel like banning him from tournies is kind of a kiddie punishment, albeit for childish actions lol

It's not just the individual, it's the community. It's one thing if it's just a personal issue between two people, it's a whole different scale if an incredible portion of the community has an issue with a single member. The fact there are so many cases of this implies that the long-awaited behavior change has not occurred and action needs to be taken.

Before you say this sort of behavior doesn't affect a community, come on man. If he's actually attacking newcomers and making them feel unwelcome to go to tournies/smashfests, of course their smash scene is going to suffer. Newbies aren't going to take their personal issues with him, they barely even know the guy and they're still trying to figure out left and right in the community.

 

[leffen]

Before you say this sort of behavior doesn't affect a community, come on man. If he's actually attacking newcomers and making them feel unwelcome to go to tournies/smashfests, of course their smash scene is going to suffer. Newbies aren't going to take their personal issues with him, they barely even know the guy and they're still trying to figure out left and right in the community.

i hosted several tournaments, and i've never intentionally tried to discourage anyone from entering tournaments, and often go out of my way to help people improve (as long as they want the help).

Then again, this is just my word against theirs, but please believe me when I say that I have NEVER tried to discourage new players, in any way shape or form.

 

[_Rocky_]

i hosted several tournaments, and i've never intentionally tried to discourage anyone from entering tournaments, and often go out of my way to help people improve (as long as they want the help).

Then again, this is just my word against theirs, but please believe me when I say that I have NEVER tried to discourage new players, in any way shape or form.

I remember seeing ~8 new smashers at one tourney you hosted. None of them returned afaik.

 

[Voltz]

Non bon.

 

[Lovage]

I remember seeing ~8 new smashers at one tourney you hosted. None of them returned afaik.

omfg evidence.zip

 

[leffen]

I remember seeing ~8 new smashers at one tourney you hosted. None of them returned afaik.

I'm sorry, what tournament and what players?

And this happens for every tournament, it has happened several times with lots of swedish smash tournaments.

 

[Voltz]

Cela aurait pu être évitée ...

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

i hosted several tournaments, and i've never intentionally tried to discourage anyone from entering tournaments, and often go out of my way to help people improve (as long as they want the help).

Then again, this is just my word against theirs, but please believe me when I say that I have NEVER tried to discourage new players, in any way shape or form.

You certainly weren't nice to me on the first tournament we where both at, playing ICs while screaming how horrible you where with them to make an idiot of me. Or Zneffy.
There's tons of examples.

 

[InTimidator]

First Unknown, now Leffen.

 

[Revven]

Next time on smashboards: Leffen makes his case.

 

[Aniolas]

I remember seeing ~8 new smashers at one tourney you hosted. None of them returned afaik.

Unless someone said something, you saw/heard leffen behaved out of order or something, you can't use that as an argument. There were 3 new swedish players at King Funks tournament, haven't seen them since. Might the several reasons why.

 

[leffen]

Can someone put me in contact with Zneffy? I want to talk to him, it was all a huge misunderstanding.

 

[Armada]

Okay tons of stuff to deal with here!
Tomorrow I will be online and see if someone have something important to ask me.

Leffen: Have asked you on FB more then once to send your bank information but with . So it's not like Im trying to keep those money or anything like that. So why do you even mention that?

Send your bank information and I will make sure to send them today!

Seems to be tons of misunderstandings from several of people here.... what a surprise

Edit: Last Monday AND Thursday I asked him to send the bank information without any response. What am I suppoused to do against it?

 

[Biglard]

First Unknown, now Leffen.

Two Fox mains, who have pulled very close sets against HBox in the past few months...

Coincidence? I think this is more evidence.zip against HBox here.

 

[Voltz]

Two Fox mains, who have pulled very close sets against HBox in the past few months...

Coincidence? I think this is more evidence.zip against HBox here.

Loooool.

 

[leffen]

Okay tons of stuff to deal with here!
Tomorrow I will be online and see if someone have something important to ask me.

Leffen: Have asked you on FB more then once to send your bank information but with . So it's not like Im trying to keep those money or anything like that. So why do you even mention that?

Send your bank information and I will make sure to send them today!

Seems to be tons of misunderstandings from several of people here.... what a surprise

Edit: Last Monday AND Thursday I asked him to send the bank information without any response. What am I suppoused to do against it?

I mentioned it, because even though I KNOW its my fault that I haven't gotten any money, I still want it.

I'm not trying to blame you, but when you borrowed the money to donate for melee @ evo, I said "just give me them at BEAST or whatever". I don't have a bank info to actually give you, but I see now why you "wanted this off your mind" as you said when you asked for it...


edit: To clarify, I'll make sure to give you bank info as soon as I can, but I also want to talk to you about this matter. Hit me up on skype, please. You can remove me/block me from skype after that if you wish.

 

[Shimesaba]

Armada quitting and Leffen banned? I guess Europe decided it was tired of contributing to the metagame.

Also lol at Armada blocking Leffen on facebook. Those high school kid tactics.

 

[noobird]

Hm, anyone else see the irony of someone who was banned saying "don't let the community suffer because of me!" when it sounds like it'll flourish more with him gone?

yup. now that there are possible consequences, leffen becomes very reasonable... and the classic "i don't know who to trust anymore." also "i know it's my fault" and "i'm trying to change." standard responses lol. maybe he means it but =/

 

[Orion*]

Leffen going for the 1v1 strategy rather than the public appeal.... interesting, but unsurprising. Probably the most polite this guy has ever been on the boards in his life LOL.

Considering how communal tournament events are, if someone is detrimental to their local scene that badly I would genuinely have to agree with this.

Imo, not that it matters armada.

I'd just have him make the public apology and not deal with that skype ish. If leffen has some honest points to make, then step up.