League of Legends uPick AWH **** ITS OVER

[#HBC | ѕoup]

KevinM seriously can't be town, or I don't even know what to think. He grabbed onto Raziek after Raz made one post and didn't let go all game, up until he was able to utilize the scum power that was used and lynch him. Meanwhile I was legitimately townreading Raz and I don't understand where the scumread stemmed from at all.

Someone who's not Ryker tell me why we shouldn't just lynch Kev toDay to be sure it happens.

And if he is? What's your opinion on Ryker? Your early play into this phase was quite a statement.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kantrip who are RF's scumbuddies if you're implying he's scum, does Kevin still make sense despite what I've pointed out?

I'll be back later.

You need to respond to this.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Forgot to clarify on why I'm reading you as you are RF. Activity is a big factor but the fact remains is that I feel you're here, but you're not doing anything. I see you come back and respond to me yet you're not laying your chips on the table on going in big. We're in a possible mylo/lylo if Kevin is town and you're dawdling behind still doing things you should have reached conclusions to. It's not about me being biased about your activity but if you were really talking to Xonar about decisions before making them for the lack of your effort then I would expect more from both of you. Simply put, I want you dead for reasons already stated and the fact you're not giving me enough already in this phase. You recall that explanation of playing it safe? I don't see anything different from you but you can rest knowing that half of the players alive fit in that category. Show me your worth.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Recite that same paragraph to LAK because frankly I'm not going to waste my time picking up on your intentions and your lack of effort either, I'm not afraid to give you the noose either and frankly I'm shaking my head after typing this after going you so much leeway in the first place. Respond to me then we'll talk.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: giving.*

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

John, I see you viewing.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Doing math, one moment.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If there are three scum (likely given the balls on Kevin) and an indy, we are in 3v1v3.

This is normally unwinnable outside of scum crossfire and pinpoint lynches, but we have a kill coming through on Kevin, so we can still pull through if we're right.

As it stands, there are three town at the minimum (honestly, I think this is the most probable and I'll be acting on this assumption). If there's another town, we can afford a single mislynch.

It's easier for me because I don't have to suspect myself, but I'm still going to recommend taking this under process of elimination.

Three town:

One is me
One is Soup.

Kevin is not town.

That means I have to decide who is LEAST likely to flip scum out of RF, Kantrip, Inferno, and LAK.

Two of them are going to be aligned and they are likely going to be aligned with Kevin, so find the connection. I'll have to dig through this game tomorrow in all likelihood, but that's where my thought process is.

RF and Kantrip are not aligned due to their actions, but I don't think scum has both a Jailer and a Commuter. One of them is the scum answer to double kill roles and I don't think both of them are scum leaving town fairly defenseless.

Looking for which of them has a mate when I get back.

 

[Inferno3044]

Honestly if we don't come around soon I say just lynch Kevin. Its safe, his death is already inevitable, and I think Ryker might be indy but an indy lynch is a loss. Mainly on the basis of 2 killing roles for town seems unlikely, his kill is unblockable since its a day action, and his shot on delita was scummy as ****.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want to shoot both you and Kantrip for even suggesting shooting Kevin. Shooting Kevin LOSES THE GAME if we have an indy in it regardless of who the indy is unless Kevin is playing balls out with a single scummate which I don't buy.

 

[KevinM]

I'm also town for what its worth.

Still think RF and LAK are the plays.

Still think inferno is most likely a problem slot.

I lynched J because the slot was scummy as **** don't regret it. Raz didn't sit well with me and when it came down to me over him in a quickdraw I'll take me.

So Ryker I'm telling you now with knowing I'm dead, I'm town I want to put town ahead before I die tomorrow.

LAK and RF are where I am at, don't tell me you have both of those people as town

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I have Soup and me as town.

I have one of LAK and Inferno as mafia and one of RF and Kantrip as mafia.

I'm not really going to trust your reads until I've seen your flip which means I'm still going to have to wade through the thread.

 

[Inferno3044]

Btw Im scratching my idea because I thought of a better one. But I have sectional right now. Long story short of it is lynch LAK. Debating on using my power.

 

[RainbowFingers]

[QUOTE=Potassium;15009719]Before I post my case, I'm willing to reconsider the slot to be sure I'm not missing something in their intentions, which is quite likely. RainbowFingers, I have a few questions:[/quote] okie dokie. [quote]1. Why did you target Ryker two Nights in a row?[/quote] 1. if he's town, he gets protected if he's scum, he's roleblocked we also thought if he was poisoner, poisoning Delita was bad since we jailed him n1, we thought we possibly stopped the mafia night kill so we did it again [quote]2. Why did you target Inferno N3? [/quote] 2. we didn't want the poisoning on kevin to get stopped, so we didn't jail him. you baka. accelerator flipped, so we thought maybe delayer was in there as well, and that's why ryker's poison still went through at the beginning. Didn't want to risk ruining the free scum kill. so we picked inferno b/c we thought he was scumbuddies because KevinscuM busses his buddies a lot kantrip is commuter, so jailing kantrip is useless jailing ryker might stop the poison It was between LAK and Inferno [quote]3. Is KevinM your strongest scum read? If not, which players are more scummy than him to you?[/quote] 3. Yea KeviM. Outside of that, you. Last slot goes to Inferno/LAK. Crapshoot. Ryker's not excused either, but he's not priority at the moment. Your and KeviM's relationship to Inferno is the strongest though. A busser and some shady clear-business. SSSSSSSYeah. [quote]4. What prompted the switch from "Kantrip is SO SO SO SO town right now this is obvious kantrip town play" to "We think Kantrip is scum"?[/quote] 4. we've explained this. Xonar's meta gave us obvTown, twisty, grimy push today made us connect the K/KevinM team. [quote]5. How much consideration would you put on Ryker being possibly scum? Do you think he could be partnered with KevinM? Under which pretenses?[/QUOTE] 5. Not much, he's got the daykill poison, which would be OP for mafia, imo. Indy i might be able to go for, but not mafia with kev. [QUOTE=Potassium;15010282]Man this is so hard to quote and then read to respond to.[/quote] of course, my dear. [quote]I say my play was actually scummy, yes. When did I say that it's weird you had a townread on me? My play was scummy, but it was the standard deal for when I'm town, and the townreads on me made sense. [/quote] you never said it was weird to have a town-read, but you disliked it. #DutchieSyntaxProbs. (loveyoutooBSL) [quote]You have been on Kevin. I'm not disputing that. But what happened to that? Suddenly toDay you're looking at "if Kevin flips town" options. Also, why the **** didn't you jail him last Night? He was obviously your top scumpick if you tried to lynch him the Day before, so what possessed you to jail Inferno of all people? I can't wrap my head around this.[/quote] explained already, thought the "i can't wrap my head around this" part is stupid. you're stupid. [quote]Would you like to say what about HLFLC (I was indy and lurked pretty hard and got lynched for it) or FFC (I was mafia who actively played, bussed RR, and survived up until indyRaz lynched me because of my double hated) you're drawing parallels too? I think you're just spouting random games where I was scum and don't actually have a point about them. Otherwise you would know which game you were trying to compare to.[/quote] no you're right, my bad memory makes me scum and spouting random games. gg just saying your play is recognizable from what I remember was a scum game [quote]I hate your plan. You fit your own criteria of "who is trying to force a lynch" pretty well, seeing as you suddenly did an unjustified 180 on my slot (I'd understand if you gave some actual reasons) and are now trying to get me lynched to entertain Ryker's hypothesized scumteam. You're just pandering to Ryker far too much for my liking this game.[/quote] idk why you keep saying unjustified. it's stupid that you keep saying that. it would be stupid if you actually believed that. you're stupid. [quote]Also, you have viewed. I need you to answer my questions asap please[/QUOTE] no raz vote we made was hilarious.

 

[RainbowFingers]

jk tho that would be hilarious

ebwoping sec

 

[RainbowFingers]

Oh ****......

 

[RainbowFingers]

Before I post my case, I'm willing to reconsider the slot to be sure I'm not missing something in their intentions, which is quite likely. RainbowFingers, I have a few questions:

okie dokie.

1. Why did you target Ryker two Nights in a row?

1. if he's town, he gets protected if he's scum, he's roleblocked we also thought if he was poisoner, poisoning Delita was bad since we jailed him n1, we thought we possibly stopped the mafia night kill so we did it again

2. Why did you target Inferno N3?

2. we didn't want the poisoning on kevin to get stopped, so we didn't jail him. you baka. accelerator flipped, so we thought maybe delayer was in there as well, and that's why ryker's poison still went through at the beginning. Didn't want to risk ruining the free scum kill. so we picked inferno b/c we thought he was scumbuddies because KevinscuM busses his buddies a lot kantrip is commuter, so jailing kantrip is useless jailing ryker might stop the poison It was between LAK and Inferno

3. Is KevinM your strongest scum read? If not, which players are more scummy than him to you?

3. Yea KeviM. Outside of that, you. Last slot goes to Inferno/LAK. Crapshoot. Ryker's not excused either, but he's not priority at the moment. Your and KeviM's relationship to Inferno is the strongest though. A busser and some shady clear-business. SSSSSSSYeah.

4. What prompted the switch from "Kantrip is SO SO SO SO town right now this is obvious kantrip town play" to "We think Kantrip is scum"?

4. we've explained this. Xonar's meta gave us obvTown, twisty, grimy push today made us connect the K/KevinM/Inferno team.

5. How much consideration would you put on Ryker being possibly scum? Do you think he could be partnered with KevinM? Under which pretenses?

5. Not much, he's got the daykill poison, which would be OP for mafia, imo. Indy i might be able to go for, but not mafia with kev.

Man this is so hard to quote and then read to respond to.

of course, my dear.

I say my play was actually scummy, yes. When did I say that it's weird you had a townread on me? My play was scummy, but it was the standard deal for when I'm town, and the townreads on me made sense.

you never said it was weird to have a town-read, but you disliked it. #DutchieSyntaxProbs. (loveyoutooBSL)

You have been on Kevin. I'm not disputing that. But what happened to that? Suddenly toDay you're looking at "if Kevin flips town" options. Also, why the **** didn't you jail him last Night? He was obviously your top scumpick if you tried to lynch him the Day before, so what possessed you to jail Inferno of all people? I can't wrap my head around this.

explained already, thought the "i can't wrap my head around this" part is stupid. you're stupid.

Would you like to say what about HLFLC (I was indy and lurked pretty hard and got lynched for it) or FFC (I was mafia who actively played, bussed RR, and survived up until indyRaz lynched me because of my double hated) you're drawing parallels too? I think you're just spouting random games where I was scum and don't actually have a point about them. Otherwise you would know which game you were trying to compare to.

no you're right, my bad memory makes me scum and spouting random games. gg just saying your play is recognizable from what I remember was a scum game

I hate your plan. You fit your own criteria of "who is trying to force a lynch" pretty well, seeing as you suddenly did an unjustified 180 on my slot (I'd understand if you gave some actual reasons) and are now trying to get me lynched to entertain Ryker's hypothesized scumteam. You're just pandering to Ryker far too much for my liking this game.

idk why you keep saying unjustified. it's stupid that you keep saying that. it would be stupid if you actually believed that. you're stupid.

Also, you have viewed. I need you to answer my questions asap please

no

the raz vote we made was hilarious.

 

[RainbowFingers]

Much better.

 

[Kantrip]

And if he is? What's your opinion on Ryker? Your early play into this phase was quite a statement.

With Ryker I'm leaning towards indy. Not mafia because of that connection not making sense with RF/KevinM.

I don't want to assume a 3-man AND an indy, especially with a mafia executioner (who I believe is responsible for the D3 shenanigans). I think 2-man (Executioner and Jailer) is plausible.

There are a plethora of set-up reasons why KevinM/RainbowFingers makes sense that I can go into. There are a multitude of play reasons why RainbowFingers have been scummy that I will go into.

RainbowFingers is the correct lynch for toDay, and I plan to outline why. Finishing my essay brb

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hate being ignored. RF, respond to me sufficiently.

 

[Kantrip]

A Scorpion in the Rough - Why RF is scum

Actually screw it doing this in essay format is stupid.

Here's the thesis of it in the intro paragraph anyhow: "The slot has made poor and disingenuous Night Action choices, lurked and lagged behind as the game progressed, and changed stances without any clear reason or thought process. It has also attempted to stay out of, or even outright ignore major conflicts or points of interest within the thread at times."

The first point is quite weak now that I have my answer on Inferno and it actually makes sense to me. Targeting Ryker two Nights in a row was good for the obvious reason of a NK didn't happen one Night so it would make sense to try blocking him again. Basically, they've covered their bases with their claimed actions and I actually don't have a huge problem with them anymore (although it's apparent they didn't catch that Ryker's action works in the DAY phase, something I also missed so it's no big deal). That's not to say the same Night actions don't also benefit scum, however. Ryker was outed as the killing role, an obvious choice to roleblock. N2 could either be a lie or just roleblocking again because they doubted the odd-night restriction. Inferno was a yet-to-be-claimed, possibly investigative or other important town role, so there's reason for that too.

In general, Night Action choice is neutral.

Lurking usually isn't a huge tell, and I wouldn't be using it if not for how convenient it was. Think about who all the pushes were in the early game: There was heat on my slot, Gova, and J primarily. There were also people advocating the death of Raz, and the killing role (Ryker) was outed. There was no reason for scum to put themselves out there. In fact, RF flat-out ignored the D1 lynch choice between Gova and myself, but I will get to that later. Basically, a scumteam of KevinM and RF had only to sit back and let town tear itself apart. RF chose to lurk with that luxury, while KevinM chose to tunnel Raz without actually putting any effort towards the choice.

RainbowFingers haven't made their stances the most well-known due to the lurking problem I previously mentioned. However, there have been times where they voiced their opinions of certain conflicts or interactions. I will outline every vote and push they made, and every opinion they gave, and basically go over their content:
[COLLAPSE="RainbowFingers's Posts"]In RvS they voted Kryst, then soon after joined the small UTDZac wagon.

mfw I come in on Gova not giving content and Delita accepting a drawn-out discussion on mafia theory. Seriously? Anyway, I'll leave some notes and tell BSL to post.

Easier to quote this than to try to paraphrase it and risk twisting it. Leaves again with promise that BSL will provide his content.

Next series of posts is a collection of "finally caught up" "sorry we'll play now, no need to replace" and "for some reason we decided to actually play this time". Nothing changed.

Gives a stance on the Gova and Kantrip wagons that are starting to form.

I actually don't mind Gova so far. And Kantrip is really f*cking towny wtf. Can we go like KeviM or J or LAK? Anyway. Page 15, lemme keep going.

So they don't mind Gova and Kantrip is super towny. They propose three alternatives to the two town players with no push towards it. Interesting to note: KevinM is one of the three alternatives, but no push or effort is made against any of them.

Votes Raz, asks if we can lynch J. Then a reads list follows:

RainbowFingers, Delita, and Kantrip solid town.
Raziek leaning town, Soup reluctantly leaning town, Gova null slight town.
Ryker, Inferno, and Kryst null.
MSF white, assumed null as well?
J, KevinM, LAK scum.

Ryker null read is strange when they jailed him, thinking about it. They didn't go for protecting a townread or blocking a scum read. Instead they targeted a null read "because they didn't want him poisoning Delita". That's their claimed reason, at least. It's WAYYYYYY more likely they are scum, know he's town, and are roleblocking him. Anyways...

Proceeds to vote J without convincing anyone else to do so. Even though they DID NOT want to join the Kantrip OR the Gova wagon, they did NOTHING about it.

Honestly not down for lynching Inferno yet, that guy needs time to get in the game and whatever. Let him stick around, if he's town it'll be obvious over (a small amount of) time.

Tries to vote KevinM when votes go live D3 after doing nothing D2. In all fairness D2 ended quickly due to KevinM's hasty hammer, so they didn't have time to do anything. No indication that their stances have changed at all from D1. The hammer on KevinM comes after KevinM lynches Raz and so doesn't go through.

Yeah, I was confused as hell when Delita's death happened. Makes a little bit of sense though, since the recent flips.

This lines up with RF thinking they jailed Ryker and wondering why his kill went through.

KevinM is probably scum. He was wrong and led us to a mislynch twice. In fact, he was the reason for both lynches. (Kantrip appears to be covering this up by claiming J's lynch was due to a mafia role rather than Kevin's executioner.) Kevin has told me, and Ryker can back this up, that KevinM being wrong twice means KevinscuM. Kevin likes to bus his scummates, so InfernoScum is likely if you assume KevinscuM. Kantrip might be mafianumber3 with his sneaky subliminal twisting of information.

I really dislike the discrediting of my slot in this quote. "Covering up that KevinM was the reason for the lynches"? Are you ****ing kidding me? Not only does that not benefit scum at all since KevinM is ALREADY DYING, but it's such a ridiculous accusation on its own. I didn't realize J's death was due to KevinM's ability and I've voiced that. The entire premise for Inferno/KevinM/K is gross in this post.
[/COLLAPSE]

The changing stances without a clear reason or thought process is a point I made that, in retrospect, entirely hinges on their stance on my slot. Otherwise, their stances this game actually haven't changed (or shown themselves) much at all. RainbowFingers have had a consistent KevinM scumread and have not made any pushes until now when it's push back against Kantrip or die. I don't know what happened to their LAK scumread, either.

RF danced around the Gova/Kantrip event in Day 1, calling both town at that time and instead voting for J when a J lynch was simply NOT VIABLE. Why not join the Gova lynch, him being a null read with a slight town lean WITH a hated restriction? It was almost a Kantrip (super strong town read at that time) lynch over that, and yet instead they found it within their best interest to vote J.

Eh, this isn't cleaned up or organized at all but all my points are here somewhere. I need to go for dinner.

 

[Kantrip]

@their responses to me:

Night Action stuff was fine, althought targeting Ryker (a null read for them D1) over trying to protect a townread or block a scumread makes no sense from a town perspective.

"you never said it was weird to have a town-read, but you disliked it. #DutchieSyntaxProbs. (loveyoutooBSL) "

When did I dislike you having a townread on me?

Their later stuff is just calling me stupid and not actually responding to the content. Nice try.



Warning, set-up speculation: I think everyone in this game is going with KevinM scum at this point, so I'm going to use Mafia Executioner as a thing. With an ability like that along with the power to bring all the players to L-1 for one Day phase, having only 2 mafia members is a succinct possibility. They can use the Executioner ability to get an early alpha strike and end Days early (it can be played off with the player not claiming that they were responsible even). They can also get a free mislynch and subsequent Night Kill with Draven's ultimate. In addition, the executioner's abilities, being one-shot and passive, leave room for him to be safely jailed for protection against town/indy kills from his partner. This synergy means the mafia jailer jailing his partner can be useful (wherein the jailer also sends in the Night Kill, naturally). Mafia jailer makes sense, because not only can it be used to protect the partner from the TWO non-mafia kills in this game, it can also be used to roleblock other players, an obvious boon for mafia seeing as it has no Night Action presence otherwise (KevinM's role revolves around voting mechanics). A commuter/executioner set-up just lacks this synergy and doesn't give the mafia ANY night presence at all.

 

[Kantrip]

Something random just occurred to me. Why isn't the flavour of trueshot barrage in Delita's death represented by actual trueshot barrage flavour?

LAK please illuminate Ryker toNight.

 

[Kantrip]

Which I guess would be a given since there's no reason to really disbelieve any other champion claims anyways.

I think it's weird LAK never tried to target me to check my claim but I guess it makes sense when Ryker told people not to waste actions on me and all. And they went for question marks and unclaimed peeps so that's cool I guess.

RF/KevinM scum and Ryker indy les'go

Does anyone still want to lynch outside of me and RF, or can I try my hand at voting?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

RF, why in the hell did you think there would be a town delayer?

Kantrip, because there was no flavor whatsoever for night kills and poisoner is mechanically the correct term for the role.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Who first said it might be KevMo's role?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Warning, set-up speculation: I think everyone in this game is going with KevinM scum at this point, so I'm going to use Mafia Executioner as a thing. With an ability like that along with the power to bring all the players to L-1 for one Day phase, having only 2 mafia members is a succinct possibility. They can use the Executioner ability to get an early alpha strike and end Days early (it can be played off with the player not claiming that they were responsible even). They can also get a free mislynch and subsequent Night Kill with Draven's ultimate. In addition, the executioner's abilities, being one-shot and passive, leave room for him to be safely jailed for protection against town/indy kills from his partner. This synergy means the mafia jailer jailing his partner can be useful (wherein the jailer also sends in the Night Kill, naturally). Mafia jailer makes sense, because not only can it be used to protect the partner from the TWO non-mafia kills in this game, it can also be used to roleblock other players, an obvious boon for mafia seeing as it has no Night Action presence otherwise (KevinM's role revolves around voting mechanics). A commuter/executioner set-up just lacks this synergy and doesn't give the mafia ANY night presence at all.

God I hate you so much.

STOP.
TRYING.
TO.
****ING.
CLEAR.
YOURSELF.

The rest of your post is absolutely fine, but this paragraph is a pile of horse ****.

1.) You have no way of knowing if Draven's ability is passive.
2.) You have no way of knowing if jailer will protect from me.
3.) You have no way of knowing if there is a two man scum team and the fact that you suggest as much is a frightening lack of foresight.
4.) Being a ROLEBLOCKER is the biggest point against him.

His large post is atrocious and your's is not. I would be willing to go in with you on this one.

Inferno is my choice for scummate based on Ruy's reaction when I voted him. I don't see why Ruy tells me to unvote instead of leaving it with no comment.

If we go RF, regardless of the conclusion on mate, RF needs to go first so Soup can use his ability tonight.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

John wants Kantrip, I'm rereading will be done tonight and will talk with John on who we for sure want.

 

[Kantrip]

Who first said it might be KevMo's role?

The D3 thing. That was me.

The set-up speculation is not me trying to clear myself, it's me demonstrating why RF is scum. If that makes me town by extension fine, but that's not my intent there. Town already had a regenerating bulletproof. You've already concluded that it either has a jailer or a commuter in addition, and the other is scum (2 non-scum kills make a scum protective of some semblance likely). I don't see what's wrong with saying a scum jailer makes more sense than a scum commuter, set-up wise, from an objective standpoint even.

I'm trying to show why he is scum for me in all the ways I can so people will listen and not ****ing lose this game by lynching me toDay. Sure it's survivalistic, but in a possible LyLo especially, town needs to be just as survivalistic as anyone else in order to win. If I get lynched toDay, town could very well lose on the spot. So yes I'm going to use the tools I think I have available to make a scum lynch happen instead. I happen to be pretty darn sure that RF will accomplish that for us.

@LAK: Has John read my case? Who do you want, discounting John's opinion? Does John have reasons? If so, I'd like them so I can respond to them.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

We've both read your case. Just need a chance to talk between ourselves to finalize thoughts.

 

[Kantrip]

1.) You have no way of knowing if Draven's ability is passive.

I'm just assuming it is, as the way KevinM claimed it made it sound like it's always active.

2.) You have no way of knowing if jailer will protect from me.

True, it might not. However, most standard jailers protect from "all kills" or even "harmful night actions", although usually the first. If it doesn't protect from poison, it still has the vig gunning for it so it's not like that makes this point null and void.

3.) You have no way of knowing if there is a two man scum team and the fact that you suggest as much is a frightening lack of foresight.

Of course I don't. However, I stated why I think it's a possibility. (3 is also a possibility but I was planning on not stating my thoughts on a possible third member until toMorrow so as not to influence the NK decision). It's not a frightening lack of foresight. If the game goes on after toDay, I'm not going anywhere in the Night so I can easily pick up where I left off and start finding number 3. Geez.

4.) Being a ROLEBLOCKER is the biggest point against him.

Sure. That's cool. I mentioned it, and it's true. Jailers can roleblock and that's a big boon for mafia jailers. Yeah, congrats.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Where is your proof on 2.

Can you point to any example? Special points if said poisoner is a day role.

You ought to be hunting for a partner today rather than sitting on your *** about it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Use any tools you think you have? The grimiest part about your slot is the way it uses tools you don't have.

 

[Kantrip]

Numbers to show why 2-man scumteam isn't ridiculous using the worst case scenario, just to see how that goes. I'll even assume the poisoner is town in this analysis!

Town Accelerator
Town Delayer
Town Reporter
Town Odd Night Vigilante
Town Hated Supporter
Town Illuminator
Town Tunneler
Town Reviver
Town Odd Day Poisoner
Town Regenerating BP
Town Commuter
Mafia Executioner
Mafia Jailer

Poisoner poisons the Accelerator.
Town mislynches on their commuter.
Mafia kills the Illuminator.
Vig kills the Reporter.

Town Accelerator (poisoned)
Town Delayer
Town Odd Night Vigilante
Town Hated Supporter
Town Tunneler
Town Reviver
Town Odd Day Poisoner
Town Regenerating BP
Mafia Executioner
Mafia Jailer

Town mislynches on their Regenerating BP.
Mafia kills the Delayer.

Town Odd Night Vigilante
Town Hated Supporter
Town Tunneler
Town Reviver
Town Odd Day Poisoner
Mafia Executioner
Mafia Jailer

Poisoner poisons the vig.
Town mislynches the tunneler.
Mafia kills the Reviver.
Vig shoots the Poisoner.

Town Odd Night Vigilante (poisoned)
Town Hated Supporter
Mafia Executioner
Mafia Jailer

And there we go. A scum win fitting the 3 strikes rule. Now, you're probably saying "but that's ridiculous, the worst scenario would never happen like that." True, but scum has the executioner's abilities AND one of the townie's being hated. That's 3 tools with which a quicklynch/early lynch/alpha strike can be forced that scum has, and then they have a roleblock/protect in their jailer.

If you're going to tell me a 2-man team is not plausible you can shove it. Even more possible when you throw a possible indy (poisoner?) into the mix.

I would actually discount a 3-man team because that would be TOO strong (look at town's investigative power. Weak. Protectives? Only work on themselves.)

For that reason I say, lynch RF, watch KevinM die, lynch indyRyker and WIN THE GAME.

 

[Kantrip]

Where is your proof on 2.

Can you point to any example? Special points if said poisoner is a day role.

You ought to be hunting for a partner today rather than sitting on your *** about it.

The Day role part is a good enough point where I don't need to search. My source was mafiascum wiki though. Didn't check past games but I would've done that next.

Regardless, you can discount the point about mafia jailer being useful for protecting if you want, I feel the rest of my case still stands strong. I don't need set-up speculation to back me up on this.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You are insane.

Have you SEEN LAK and Inferno? Unless I'm missing a free mislynch somewhere, you're willing to bet the farm on there being two mafia.

 

[RainbowFingers]

Actually screw it doing this in essay format is stupid.

Here's the thesis of it in the intro paragraph anyhow: "The slot has made poor and disingenuous Night Action choices, lurked and lagged behind as the game progressed, and changed stances without any clear reason or thought process. It has also attempted to stay out of, or even outright ignore major conflicts or points of interest within the thread at times."

The first point is quite weak now that I have my answer on Inferno and it actually makes sense to me. Targeting Ryker two Nights in a row was good for the obvious reason of a NK didn't happen one Night so it would make sense to try blocking him again. Basically, they've covered their bases with their claimed actions and I actually don't have a huge problem with them anymore (although it's apparent they didn't catch that Ryker's action works in the DAY phase, something I also missed so it's no big deal). That's not to say the same Night actions don't also benefit scum, however. Ryker was outed as the killing role, an obvious choice to roleblock. N2 could either be a lie or just roleblocking again because they doubted the odd-night restriction. Inferno was a yet-to-be-claimed, possibly investigative or other important town role, so there's reason for that too.

In general, Night Action choice is neutral.

Lurking usually isn't a huge tell, and I wouldn't be using it if not for how convenient it was. Think about who all the pushes were in the early game: There was heat on my slot, Gova, and J primarily. There were also people advocating the death of Raz, and the killing role (Ryker) was outed. There was no reason for scum to put themselves out there. In fact, RF flat-out ignored the D1 lynch choice between Gova and myself, but I will get to that later. Basically, a scumteam of KevinM and RF had only to sit back and let town tear itself apart. RF chose to lurk with that luxury, while KevinM chose to tunnel Raz without actually putting any effort towards the choice.

RainbowFingers haven't made their stances the most well-known due to the lurking problem I previously mentioned. However, there have been times where they voiced their opinions of certain conflicts or interactions. I will outline every vote and push they made, and every opinion they gave, and basically go over their content:
[COLLAPSE="RainbowFingers's Posts"]In RvS they voted Kryst, then soon after joined the small UTDZac wagon.


Easier to quote this than to try to paraphrase it and risk twisting it. Leaves again with promise that BSL will provide his content.

Next series of posts is a collection of "finally caught up" "sorry we'll play now, no need to replace" and "for some reason we decided to actually play this time". Nothing changed.

Gives a stance on the Gova and Kantrip wagons that are starting to form.

So they don't mind Gova and Kantrip is super towny. They propose three alternatives to the two town players with no push towards it. Interesting to note: KevinM is one of the three alternatives, but no push or effort is made against any of them.

Votes Raz, asks if we can lynch J. Then a reads list follows:

RainbowFingers, Delita, and Kantrip solid town.
Raziek leaning town, Soup reluctantly leaning town, Gova null slight town.
Ryker, Inferno, and Kryst null.
MSF white, assumed null as well?
J, KevinM, LAK scum.

Ryker null read is strange when they jailed him, thinking about it. They didn't go for protecting a townread or blocking a scum read. Instead they targeted a null read "because they didn't want him poisoning Delita". That's their claimed reason, at least. It's WAYYYYYY more likely they are scum, know he's town, and are roleblocking him. Anyways...

Proceeds to vote J without convincing anyone else to do so. Even though they DID NOT want to join the Kantrip OR the Gova wagon, they did NOTHING about it.



Tries to vote KevinM when votes go live D3 after doing nothing D2. In all fairness D2 ended quickly due to KevinM's hasty hammer, so they didn't have time to do anything. No indication that their stances have changed at all from D1. The hammer on KevinM comes after KevinM lynches Raz and so doesn't go through.


This lines up with RF thinking they jailed Ryker and wondering why his kill went through.


I really dislike the discrediting of my slot in this quote. "Covering up that KevinM was the reason for the lynches"? Are you ****ing kidding me? Not only does that not benefit scum at all since KevinM is ALREADY DYING, but it's such a ridiculous accusation on its own. I didn't realize J's death was due to KevinM's ability and I've voiced that. The entire premise for Inferno/KevinM/K is gross in this post.
[/COLLAPSE]

The changing stances without a clear reason or thought process is a point I made that, in retrospect, entirely hinges on their stance on my slot. Otherwise, their stances this game actually haven't changed (or shown themselves) much at all. RainbowFingers have had a consistent KevinM scumread and have not made any pushes until now when it's push back against Kantrip or die. I don't know what happened to their LAK scumread, either.

RF danced around the Gova/Kantrip event in Day 1, calling both town at that time and instead voting for J when a J lynch was simply NOT VIABLE. Why not join the Gova lynch, him being a null read with a slight town lean WITH a hated restriction? It was almost a Kantrip (super strong town read at that time) lynch over that, and yet instead they found it within their best interest to vote J.

Eh, this isn't cleaned up or organized at all but all my points are here somewhere. I need to go for dinner.

Holy ****, man... I don't even know how to express how scummy you keep making yourself look.
You start out with the heading "Why RF is scum", but then you basically spend your entire "almost essay format" discrediting your previous pushes at me.

"The first point is quite weak now...In general, Night Action choice is neutral."
...

"Lurking usually isn't a huge tell, and i wouldn't be using it if not for how convenient it was"
WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWWWWWWWW.

"ignored the D1 lynch"
we were trying to not lynch one of two townies. J wan't a null tell, broski.


Our target on Ryker was because it's always a good choice to jail him. As town, he is protected, as scum, he is roleblocked. And there was also the whole thing (which turned out to be a waste) that he was going to kill a superobvtownplayer...!?!?!?!? That was our main reason. To keep him from killing Delita. We also knew that it was a win/win regardless of Ryker's alignment, so there was no real downside to jailing him.


On the premise of the Inferno/KevM/K scumteam: you have no idea if Ryker is actually going to kill Kevin. Out of all of the memories I have in this big head of mine, I can only recall Ryker following through on a DayKill threat ONCE, and it was in this game.

Side note: I was just going back through the thread and I saw on page 29 you had a null read on me, that's cool how I'm like your number 1 scum read now. Stance swapping, eh? K, back to what I was saying.


So basically, your whole case on us boils down to repeating the whole "he's stance swapping with no reason!" which is complete bull****. It's been explained more than once why we changed our stance, and I'm tired of repeating myself.

"All of my points are in here"
So... Your point is that we're a null tell? I guess that makes sense, since we were null on page 29...

When did I dislike you having a townread on me?

This is what Xonar is trying to point out with the whole "townread is weird/dislike the townread" thing.

Dislike RainbowFinger's change of views to Kantripscum after opposing my wagon when my play was ACTUALLY scummy.

And things like this, my friends, is why I don't like to play mafia.

 

[RainbowFingers]

Oh, and Soup, I'm not actually ignoring you, I just didn't have time to talk to Xonar about anything other than Kantrip. We'll get to it, I promise.

 

[Kantrip]

Perhaps I'm insane. But no less so than you, in your own ways. You did vote for Inferno a bit hastily there, after all.

Yeah I've seen LAK and Inferno. I also don't have soup as 100% clear. However, I had LAK as a townread when they were actually playing (and RR prompting you to unvote and the objective, calm way he's approaching this Day phase in general gives me no uneasy feelings). That read was almost as strong as my Raztown read, and that read was both strong AND correct, so I'm willing to be confident in myself for once. Inferno's claim of trying to make the lynch between J and me and it failing, I see no reason for him to be lying about that. It's a townie action to try to take, and from my own perspective in knowing I'm town it makes me fine with him. Sure there are scummy points that you have brought to my attention, and I acknowledge that. I will also approach the next Day phase cautiously and look at all the options, naturally, so don't worry.

I'm betting the farm on RFscum for sure. After his flip, I'll work from there. For now can we at least establish that much?

Is the lynch between the two of us for sure? I want to just vote them already. Looking at their response to my case makes me all the more confident. Can you really tell me with a straight face that their retort is an acceptable rebuttal?

 

[Kantrip]

@RF: That post was written as I went, and I scrapped the essay idea. If you'd like I can post what I had so far so you can see I'm not full of **** with it. I just decided it was just fluffing things up and not getting straight to the point so I went with the more direct approach. I outlined nearly everything you've done in this game and shown why it's gross, and all you've given wrt me is "man you keep making yourself look scummy. Wow you're stupid. Are you kidding me? This is why I hate mafia."

All strawman, all OMGUS, all defensiveness, no me gusta.