League of Legends uPick AWH **** ITS OVER

[adumbrodeus]

Adum, I couldn't read you. Help me read you for next time please.

You had a tinfoil hat on ran, you were making assumptions of the scummyness of actions that were firmly aimed at rooting out scum.

While I could understand if you had a reason to believe that if you thought they had some other motivation, you believed them scummy based on face value.



And the elaborate maze of unsubstantiated connections...



The first thing you need to do is try to understand how people think. THEN you can actually start working on alignment.

 

[ranmaru]

Grr, yeah. I just thought it was weird Kanty was acting differently in this game.

I did find the Gova vote suspicious though. It still seemed out of place, unless I missed something.

And argh the connections... I try not to focus so much on it but sometimes I get confident... and I just lay it out so people can at least see that I was putting out what I was thinking.

How people think? Hmm... That's a hard one. I mean, I don't know where to start with that. Like, I don't know what I didn't see because of me not knowing how YOU were thinking, or Overswarm. This makes me think I may have to re-read some of my psychology books and people's recent mafia games...

 

[adumbrodeus]

You thought the gova vote was suspicious because you were wrong, plain and simple. Votes for simple pressure are an important tool and developing a case out of a bad response or escalating pressure because he doesn't respond is one of the most basic mafia tools.


Your view that it was prima facie scummy was based entirely on a poor understanding of the game and a poor understanding of how I function.



The problem was you had no reason to make the connections you did.


And yes, psychology is an important tool in mafia. The better and more complete your understanding of a person's psyche, the more reliable your reads on them will be.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't see how that point addresses how I was wrong though. I thought it was misplaced, rather the timing was bad, in my pov. It just vibed oddly to me because you were voting Kantrip and then you came in (I assume OS voted him) and you unvoted and voted Gova for pressure. To me, it just felt like a backburner vote. The hydra dissonance didn't help in that either. Me saying this, doesn't say that I don't think voting for pressure is good. I use that myself, when I think the time is right. I am now wondering, why didn't you vote Gova for pressure earlier?

Poor understanding? I'll try to get a better understanding then. Examples would be helpful here. (One is just fine, one is better than none! :D )

And about how you function, I guess I should read some of your games then, eh? ;o

 

[Krystedez]

And ryker, why the hell did you lie about the timing of your trueshot barrage hitting me d1?

We intended to absorb it, but because it hit during the night instead of the end of day like you said our BP hadn't regenerated.

I'm not entirely sure if my Wither: Ryker happened or not. Would that have made a difference? I haven't been following up til now, I guess both had kill power on even and odd days but I dont know what the conversation is about.

I don't know if my action wither will work on poison mechanics, and I think I died the same night that I used it so maybe nvm this post.

God my gut instict and my brain never act in the same way LOL

 

[adumbrodeus]

No idea krys, haven't had the opportunity to read how whither works.

I don't see how that point addresses how I was wrong though. I thought it was misplaced, rather the timing was bad, in my pov. It just vibed oddly to me because you were voting Kantrip and then you came in (I assume OS voted him) and you unvoted and voted Gova for pressure. To me, it just felt like a backburner vote. The hydra dissonance didn't help in that either. Me saying this, doesn't say that I don't think voting for pressure is good. I use that myself, when I think the time is right. I am now wondering, why didn't you vote Gova for pressure earlier?

Poor understanding? I'll try to get a better understanding then. Examples would be helpful here. (One is just fine, one is better than none! :D )

And about how you function, I guess I should read some of your games then, eh? ;o

I said it was OS that voted him.

It wasn't intended as a backburner vote, but kantrip immediately responded and gova sort of ignored it, which resulted in escalating it later. The reason I didn't vote earlier was exactly what I said, I reread and gova stuck out as odd. I really wasn't engaged in the game that much prior to the vote.


Well, here's the example, voting and questioning a pretty much arbitrary non-active that caught my attention on a reread and escalating pressure is pretty much standard town behavior on my part.

 

[Krystedez]

It delays the action, as long as it's not a NK, by one day.

So like if you jailed someone N1, I would make it so that it would not occur until N2. You could effectively jail 2 people on N2 if I did this.

 

[BSL]

Best post of the thread.

Didn't notice until just now. <3

 

[Gova]

Britches and Hose didn't have 2 vigs.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Britches and Hose didn't have 2 vigs.

Yea, but remember my argument for why there weren't two town roleblockers was that no compitent mod would put 2 of the same town role because of the issues with counter claiming.


*cough*

 

[BSL]

They were different roles though.

 

[adumbrodeus]

But they were close enough in function that everyone in the game would (and did) interpret one as a counterclaim to the other.

Especially considering that they were both using global ults for very similar effects.



Actually.... Rereading ryker's ability:

Every even day, you may privately message me the command Trueshot Barrage: (playername). At the start of the next day, your shot will reach your target and they will die (listed as a poison kill for mechanic reasons). Remember, that's every even day, so D2, D4, etc.

Now mine:

This is a passive ability. You are granted a bulletproof that regenerates in time. If you are ever the target of a direct lethal action, your bulletproof will be taken away. Upon the end of the following night, your BP will be up once again. For example, if your BP is popped N1, it will take N2 to regenerate and be up D3. You will be notified if your BP has been popped.

So, I got it popped n1, that means it should be up after n2. Ryker's poison takes effect at the start of d3. My bp should've been up.

 

[Overswarm]

*frown*

10frowns

 

[BSL]

 

[adumbrodeus]

Reading a bit more of the post endgame content, OS is very correct. Because town isn't informed, the more power roles that exist in the game total (purely informative/protective roles excluded) the more raw power town has to be given relative to scum because town power roles are very capable of hurting town.

But this also included a perfect storm of two essentially vigs, and 3 different ways to unexpectedly end a day early, one of which was infinitely repeatable.

The setup was built to make town murder itself, there were just too many ways to make town hurt itself, the town alignment tag doesn't just magically make a role that is mechanically incredibly anti-town a boon.


Poor play on the part of people who were put into a position of this power merely added to this issue.


The mod error of course made things worse.



This made code geass mafia look tame by comparison.

 

[Overswarm]

It happens. Complicated setups are super hard to run. I still don't know if I made mistakes in FFTactics mafia, that game was a *****.

 

[adumbrodeus]

True, but that doesn't make the game any less unsatisfying nor compromise the result less.


This game was just a complete mess, not quite dexter mafia, but getting up there.

 

[JTB]

Yo adumb, I know you love hearing yourself speak and having to sound right all the time, but there was no mod error at all. Your role pm said you would die as a result of a direct lethal action, essentially a direct kill. This did not include protection against a poison kill.

I mean, look at the name even. "Bullet"-proof. Not "All-kills"-proof.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Dexter was broken from the start.

Here town has to hit themselves a lot more to mess up, it makes it worse than roles with more influence on who lives and dies messed up and hit town, Ryker hit you and Kevin, Kevin QL'd J without any warning, J tried to kill Ryker, etc.

Swingy, sure, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near Dexter where the game was over when I got lynched D1.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yo adumb, I know you love hearing yourself speak and having to sound right all the time, but there was no mod error at all. Your role pm said you would die as a result of a direct lethal action, essentially a direct kill. This did not include protection against a poison kill.

I mean, look at the name even. "Bullet"-proof. Not "All-kills"-proof.

The idea that poisoning would not be considered a direct lethal action is absolutely silly.

You know how I know that you don't even believe this? Because of this:

With the amount of kills in the game, I figured a BP would be necessary and it fit well with Anivia. Scum shot delita N1, popped his bp, which allowed Ryker to poison him D2 before his BP was up again D3.

You're making **** up to cover your a**.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yo adumb, I know you love hearing yourself speak and having to sound right all the time, but there was no mod error at all. Your role pm said you would die as a result of a direct lethal action, essentially a direct kill. This did not include protection against a poison kill.

I mean, look at the name even. "Bullet"-proof. Not "All-kills"-proof.

Being fair, this set-up was very swingy with our role, and the town killing roles + Executioner.

Other town players, or even mafia who barely lifted a finger during the whole situation, didn't really do much, nor I don't think town could do much to stop those PRs from setting up the downward Spiral.

 

[JTB]

Obviously making it up because I'm not humble enough to admit my mistakes, you sure as hell caught me dude.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Didn't notice until just now. <3

It's a boss post because both of those words work ie Xonar wasn't delicate or dedicated with keeping to the rainbow theme of the mult.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Obviously making it up because I'm not humble enough to admit my mistakes, you sure as hell caught me dude.

Yea, cause being targeted by a poisoner isn't a "direct lethal action" isn't inherently a ridiculous idea?

The inconsistency between your initial reasoning and your reasoning after you were called on it just shows that you don't even believe it.


Yea, I'm done here.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Adumb deserves mvp for valiant scumhunting









in post-game.

 

[JTB]

Hm, not sure what I was thinking when I said that bit wrt ryker poisoning went through because BP was down. From the time when the setup was being made, I had planned for it to ignore BP no matter what.

Damn, well my bad on misleading you guys in post-game.

 

[adumbrodeus]

K, I don't know how much more direct and lethal you can get then poisoning, but honestly, burst of righteous indignation following being unable to access the internet for a while then coming back to this, but meh, whatever.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Wait adumb. Did you also lose power due to sandy?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yep, got power back a while back but still don't have internet.

Borrowing a friend's fone for a wifi hotspot atm.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryker's role being able to go through anything is really lame in hindsight. He's pretty much a strongman at that point.

Mine and Ryker's Roles should have been removed, they add too much swing to the set-up.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Yep, got power back a while back but still don't have internet.

Borrowing a friend's fone for a wifi hotspot atm.

Same. I just got power five hours ago after half a week of waiting it out and another half moving between new york and pennsylvania. Maybe we're neighbors... that means you must be the crazy cat lady.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Same. I just got power five hours ago after half a week of waiting it out and another half moving between new york and pennsylvania. Maybe we're neighbors... that means you must be the crazy cat lady.

Oh? I love cats!

I'm on Long Island NY.

Ryker's role being able to go through anything is really lame in hindsight. He's pretty much a strongman at that point.

Mine and Ryker's Roles should have been removed, they add too much swing to the set-up.

Of the balance issues, you bring up that ryker's role went through BP. That wouldn't have been a problem tbh if our role PM had been a bit more explicit what didn't and affect it.

But yea, your role was... heck it wasn't even the role itself, it was the combination of kevin's role and gova's role. Two wasted days was just too much.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That probably is more accurate of what I thought was wrong with this set-up, too much power and certain powers I personally do not like.

My role reminds me too much of how the last day of Hearts mafia went where the scum team planned out when players went to bed so they could alpha strike with the limited posts each day could have, in this case it was a three hour period and almost effectively removed a day.

I detest day killing roles, there is no interaction players can make outside of being BP on the spot, and creates a number of unfun/unlikeable situations like MP2 where it can be, "claim when the game starts or I shoot you."

~

It's weird here though, I love OS'd set-ups and it seems like this is trying to be one, but it made people too powerful on a few angles. OS summed it up pretty well at the end of one of his posts.

I mean you saw how many people died. This is 6 people in two phases, one of which would be a one-vote lynch and the other could be a lynch between two people. Town would have absolutely no control, and did have no control.



All in all, this is a lot like Fire Emblem in that it is pretty heavily scum flavored. FF4 and FF6 proved that Town having a lot of power doesn't make them powerful, just more dangerous to themselves, and this is just another layer on that cake.

This sums up a lot of my thoughts on the set-up, almost perfectly.

Too many roles were creating deaths instead of something else, that is what I think made this set-up easier for scum to lurk and have town implode themselves.

This isn't anywhere near Dexter level by a long shot, that was completely out of towns control unless one of the two Indies shot a specific scum or town lynched that scum on D1/D2. Here town did themselves in, but it was also due to the fact town had too much power for the individuals, including mine, to influence a lot of the deaths going on. Too many kills roles/vote manipulation to make it easier to kill people really.

 

[ranmaru]

We just aren't as salty as Hearts mafia because we had more power to 'stop' mafia, but we just goofed up. (Instead of just feeling powerless and going WTF MAFIA)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It happens. Complicated setups are super hard to run. I still don't know if I made mistakes in FFTactics mafia, that game was a *****.

oh hell yes you did

 

[adumbrodeus]

We just aren't as salty as Hearts mafia because we had more power to 'stop' mafia, but we just goofed up. (Instead of just feeling powerless and going WTF MAFIA)

But honestly we really didn't. The nature of the setup itself deprived town of any ability to exercise those roles in a reasonable fashion, which is why the implosion occurred.

 

[UTDZac]

Playing against Phreak in ranked fives.

www.twitch.tv/utdzac

EDIT: we lose, lv1 too strong, jungler too weak

 

[adumbrodeus]

wrong league of legends thread utd?