Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[Soft Serve]

Good stuff to all you guys that rep'd diddy at apex. Going to watch all of the vids and take notes tomorrow as its my day off from classes. gotta hit that lab. I know vman uploaded a match or two of bosses diddy, did anyone else get recorded? bracket, pools, MM's, even friendlies, as limited as they were. Gotta absorb everything.

Some stuff I've been stealing/using and incorporating into my game plan:

AGTing bananas on platforms above me, throwing them down back to the ground for use later. I stole this after watching one of Guy's vids where he did it on Wario ware to control literally the entire stage and keep his opponent limited to the ledge and about and inch of stage. It was beautiful. I enjoy how fast and safe it is, allowing me to "reset" my bananas without putting my face out there or fully committing to landing on a platform. It also looks really fluid and pretty bad ass.

Popgun reset on spacies after diddy hump. I try to use it sparingly, but when disqo first said something about it It kinda blew my mind. Most of the time I have trouble hit confirming side-b's in general off spacies, so especially at low percents this is a great tool to rack up percent, like 17% i think, and when it does jab-reset them its either a free grab>gimp, grab> uthrow >nair juggles, or usmash> juggle. fantastic option if you can catch them missing a tech.

Dairing as a follow up on mid-weights and floaties after a side-b. I mostly use this on characters I would have a ton of problems edge guarding if I just faired or up-b'd and didn't kill them outright, or against opponents I want to stay grounded for easy tech chases. I've found it really useful against peach and samus, who would just recovery for pretty much free anyway. I like to trade any percent I would possibly rack up through knocking peach back off stage for the chance to get a tech chased d-smash or even another side-b read. In theory I would like to use this on snake as well, the combo works on him if I read the DI correctly and edge guarding him can be a pain as well.

I'm still trying to incorporate dash attack off platforms into my game more. Its just not something I think about because I try to stay off platforms for the most part unless I'm using them to combo, forcing bad positioning for my opponent, or camping a peach or something. I see its uses though and am working on it.

I quit my job until the end of the semester so I have Saturdays completely open again, going to go to our bi-weekly pm tourneys now instead of just smashfests every week. Here's hoping I can put all this diddy practice to good use.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Super hype soft! Can't wait to see the improvements

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Super hype soft! Can't wait to see the improvements

 

[AbstractLogic]

Dash Attack off of ledges / platforms is way too good. PLEASE Start using it more soft serve. I goof off a bit and have some fun when I play my matches, but if you watch any of my vids you will see the utility in it.

Also use more Z drops to cover landings. This monkey can get juggled pretty hard by certain characters.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

We can basically be juggled hard by everyone, being the middle weight

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

sideb smack -> dair -> fair (depending on if they tech or not though lol), FH popgun -> fair, DA offstage -> dair -> upB, best combos no doubt

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

That sounds too good to be true. Vids or it didn't happen

 

[SpiderMad]

make a video

 

[Soft Serve]

Finally made it out to a bi-weekly, was a lot of fun. I can't say I represented diddy very well in bracket because I didn't actually compete in it. I entered it, but our TO was doing a bad job because he was high/super salty he was losing doubles hard, so our streamer took over TOing and I took over streaming and commentating. I dropped out of the bracket because we litterally started 3 hours late and only had like 2 hours to go through the whole bracket. I did play around 14 hours of friendlies in the last few days, and as always I had my notebook with me to jot everything down. Just gunna put some of my scrawlings in here, its mostly MU specific

Spoiler

Punish ledge hop double laser from falco more, CC it, shield them and grab him out of it, etc
Learn proper OoS options from spacie shield pressure. <-- experience
KIRBY: Tech/DI d-throw down and away always, any other DI gets you up-tilted or regrabed. Care for b-throw mixup
SDI linker fair hits away (off stage in particular) so you don't get hit by the strong one
Kirby can't fireball through bananas, abuse this by proper banana placement when in neutral game.
Try to steal jumps with projectiles, grab ledge and punish landing like a sheik/marth recovery

DK: control neutral
Respect his hitboxes, make every hit-confirm count.
FAIR BEATS UP-B, WEAK HIT OF FAIR TRADES WHEN HITTING FROM ABOVE HIM

YOSHI: Respect the armor on double jumps and the nair, don't respect eggs in the neutral game. Really strong punish game on both sides, Yoshi catches side-b really well with pivot grabs, so shorten them if its not a guaranteed hit
Aim for low kills, fair/dsmash, hard to edgeguard. SIde-b catches him through both his double jump and Side-b recovery but gives him back his double jump. Difficult to intercept but should be a stock when you jump.
Don't **** with his sheild. one shield grab at low percents or a DJC uair OoS and that might as well be a stock.
Recover as high as possible or go very low and go for a vertical up-b recovery, eggs make it difficult at times

MARIO: Dominate neutral game, you can duck under fireballs unless he at a 45 degree angle above you and pretty close, in which case you can glide toss towards him and throw upwards > combo or juggle. Respect the cape
Recover with side-b early so he can't cape you out of it, save double jump and up-b until you can recovery vertically below the stage so you can still grab the ledge if he capes -> be ready to DI and tech into the stage for when he d-smashes or dropzone bairs you. If you miss a sweet spot you'll get f-smashed.
If he is offstage just harras as usualy with penuts, grab ledge. If he capes or down-b in range of you go out and bair him. z-drop bananas can mess with his wall jump shenanagans

SAMUS: Rough
As long as its not FD samus can put out missles faster than you can do peanuts/bananas
Crawling works to get under missles, don't do too close to her or you'll get punished as she landcancels
Bananas clank with missles and stay out, CHARGE SHOT GOES RIGHT THROUGH
Side-b attack goes through weak missles, not sure if it goes through strong
IF shes in ICE don't mess with her shield as ice fair/usmash are added to her OoS options. In Fire respect her close range spacing more.
Recovery is a **** fest, easiery for her to deal with you can you with her. Try to hit her out of bombs with projectiles, If she gets in range of the a drop down bair and is still bomb jumping than hit her. You can dair through up-b, otherwise treat as a teather recovery and try to punish her comming back on stage
Don't be predictable, side-b HIGH so you don't get hit out of it.



Hold onto bananas longer for mind games and stronger precence in neutral
Mix up recovery, side-b early to dj airdodge on stage when possible as up-b is hard to sweetspot and punishable when not done correctly

On a side note Diddy in teams is fun, but he has to play a support role imo. Great with a teamate that has early killing power like fox or Roy as trips set up free smashes. Good at stock tanking as he lives forever and edgeguarding is difficult in doubles, great at helping teammate out of situations with projectile/speed. Also, Since in doubles shielding happens quite a bit more and is safer than in singles, diddy's great OoS options in nair and Glide tosses really shine.

If you guys have never commentated before try to give it a try, its a really enjoyable experience. I hopefully will be commentating more often which will be sick.

 

[SpiderMad]

FFALLERS: Up-smash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBfvwXeeuc

 

[SpiderMad]

SH Double Bair in Action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVQDFfwxAi4

 

[Soft Serve]

Damn I had no idea that the double bair hit so far below the stage. Going to need to steal that

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

That sounds too good to be true. Vids or it didn't happen

Of which

Man I am never gonna get the double aerial timing down.

 

[Player-1]

Who is the main developer person for diddy in the PMBR?

 

[AbstractLogic]

That would be GuruKid

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Thought I figured out the secret to bananavators. You DO have to smash the stick up to get a bigger boost from AGT upwards (not sure why, perhaps it's just that I'm smash throwing the banana) during a certain part of it, usually the actual repeated rising.

Setting up the nanervator is the hardest part, but I have a good template for it, just working on actually getting the nanervator down. I did it at Xanadu perfectly once (above Battlefield for at least 20 seconds) and I have no clue how I did it so well on that first try.

Edit: Wait, AGT got nerfed didn't it? So that it gives you less boost the more you use it? That's probably why, damn.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm not familiar with stuff but your saying to smash the control stick, but I believe it just relies on how far the air dodge would have been.

Which version did they do the AGT change

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Dunno all I know is I remember someone saying you get less boost the more you AGT in one jump, so nanervator (AGTing upwards with two bananas over and over) isn't possible anymore as far as I know.

 

[Soft Serve]

Diddy/sanic is crazy hard holy crap. Got my ass handed to me by nazo for a few games last night. It might just be that he also just has a better diddy than me to begin with so he definetly knows what to abuse in the neutral. Anyone get a chance to learn that matchup?

And for a melee player I really do suck at the falco matchup. I feel ashamed to admit that >.>

Whats up with all you guys? the diddy threads have been pretty dead as of late.

 

[jtm94]

Sonic is a super pain since he can spin over the bananas.

I just try to hit him with nair before he hits me.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Sonic is basically beat in the air by all of Diddy's aerials so try to emphasize air game. Stage control isn't as relevant in this matchup because characters like him and squirtle can honestly be wherever they want at any point. as Guy said a while back, Fair is anti air king and make sure to capitalize on any down/upthrows you get. He's a bit of an odd combo weight for sure though so you can't afford to get too greedy. The matchup is kind of slow paced and lame imo.

 

[Youngster Joey]

so i was playing ladder yesterday. i went to BF game 1 (my fav stage btw). i won. game 2 we go to FoD and i lose because of some sd's. but then it was time for my CP and i had no idea where to go. the only stage i truly feel comfortable with is BF.... i know this is bad but what are diddys other best stages? ;~; and bad stages too would help i ended up winning the set on PS2 vs a zelda

 

[Soft Serve]

I don't think diddy does particularly badly on any stage. You might want to avoid small stages like yoshi's in certain matchups, but it all comes down to what platform layout you are comfortable with and what size blastzones you want. Taking a falco to dreamland, for example, works well. It gives you the room to move and escape his pressure while letting you live longer, and doesn't help his recovery that much at all. Taking a zelda, peach, or m2 there imo is asking for tough kills. I would take a zelda to PS2 like you did, or possibly somewhere like wario ware so you can kill her faster.

 

[DeFish]

PS2 is my preferred stage as Diddy, I feel like I'm very hit or miss on the tri-platform stages. I avoid Lylat like the plague.

 

[Soft Serve]

Lylat is my favorite stage lol. except against a marth or characters that like to keep you on platforms.

I just like the middle platform being low, it makes me feel like I have more stage control when a banana falls there because AGTing a banana on a platform above you is so smooth and useful there. I also get more chances to dash attack off platforms, and another platform to ledge cancel my Up-B when recovering high. I wouldn't take a lot of characters there, but my prefered CP stages are definetly PS2 and lylat for the platform layouts, and Dreamland because you never die, have room, and the flowers troll and hide bananas for you.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Diddy is mobile enough to do well on any stage honestly. Anywhere that you feel you control the stage and apply creative pressure I would go with. Anything on front page is terrific for him imo. More often than not I won't even ban stages in tournament sets.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'd ban Rumble Falls vs Fox, other than that I don't know stages for crap for Diddy. I took Bowsers to PS2 for years to try and camp them out but I feel like there's gotta be a better place

Also they had to have changed Fair to end sooner/have sooner IASa, cus I would have known Fair DJ Fair is a thing. I might have a short video of random stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjB0CPREWHU

 

[DeFish]

Lylat is my favorite stage lol. except against a marth or characters that like to keep you on platforms.

The guy I usually play against uses a combination of Zelda, Sheik, and Marth, so those platforms are usually a death sentence for me. I don't mind them as much against shorter characters though, so maybe I'll have to give it another chance as a CP.

On a different topic, how are you guys generally throwing people when you grab them? I normally d-throw at earlier percentages, but I feel like I have a hard time following up grabs later on because Diddy throws so far once they get above 40% or so.

 

[Soft Serve]

Up throw at low percents lead to at least one up air or nair on most charactets. I fthrow when i want to send them towards a banana or off the stage, and bthrow when i want the same positional advantages.

At high percents, if you condition them to always srvival di your back throw, then go for d throw as di inward normally nets you a fair. If they always di away just go for the back air off stage and set up an edge guard.

Diddy doesnt let too much off individual grabs but gets alot off of the tech chase and pressure options that come up afterwards.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Down throw and Upthrow are actually DI Traps. I honestly just throw the direction opposite that I predict they will DI. Down throw is best for tech chases whereas the others are more for positioning/DI mixups. A true diddy player never pummels btw!

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Last nights socal tourney and I almost beat Fly Amanita. He went sheik after game 1 and was just in my face. Great set, I got some ugly stuff off on him but man, our fall speed and weight just set us up for some awkward situations vs sheik. Plus he was relentless in my face, I'm just happy I kept up with the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVoKnhpB564&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Also soft serve, thrown bananas beat out spin, so if your unsure about an aerial or wanna just make it easier on yourself, do that. But be warned, sonic can wave dash out of sideB after the first few frames andcatch it and then keep on spinning. But then that also means that a second banana won't be countered and so on and so forth and whatnot. You get the picture

 

[AbstractLogic]

Last nights socal tourney and I almost beat Fly Amanita. He went sheik after game 1 and was just in my face. Great set, I got some ugly stuff off on him but man, our fall speed and weight just set us up for some awkward situations vs sheik. Plus he was relentless in my face, I'm just happy I kept up with the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVoKnhpB564&feature=youtube_gdata_player

GOOD **** DISQO!

You've gotten so much better since the last set i saw of you against Okami. This guy right here understands the importance of taunts as well. Well played!

On the sheik Matchup though make sure to mix up those recovery options because she wrecks if you don't sweetspot or even if you try to barrel into her. Personally I'd recommend using the side-B kick before your double jump just to cover the needle option when you're being edgeguarded. I like the use of bananas to cover your landing however. try focusing more on just staying safe and sheik will have a much harder time with you. I like the barrels on stage, but try to avoid ledge hopping because thats exactly what sheik wants you to do.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Right right good advice. Thanks man

 

[DeFish]

Sheik feels like she's built to combo Diddy, she seems like our worst match up to me.

Disqo, I got to see a few of your matches at Apex and was really impressed with your banana placement on stage, do you have specific positions that you try to get your bananas in relative to your opponent? Or it it more about continuously forcing them to the edge of the stage? It seems like whenever I try to get fancy with on-stage bananas I can never prevent my opponent from recovering them.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Well Fish, I'm gonna try to explain this to you(and everyone else) the best way I can, Cuz in match I basically run ideas together as they happen.

Bananas are playstyle changers. Think about when you play against a DK with a fully charged punch. You play around not getting hit by punch. And because of that, you will absent mindedly shield more, which gets you grabbed and then punched or combod. Bananas are that concept.

The more you play diddy, the more you'll see how opponents react to bananas. There's not necessarily answers to people using bananas, but there are ways you can stay in control, while wreaking havoc. I don't wanna make this super complicated for you, but this is gonna be a long ass post.

Banana placement is always something you can capitalize on, no matter where they are. My personal favorites are 1 in hand and 1 in front or on a platform near me, 1 behind me and my opponent, 1 behind me and in between, 1 behind opponent and between, or 1 behind my opponent and 1 in hand. These are all the optimal situations and you MUST MUST MUST be able to react on que when these situations happen, because they never happen for very long.

Now, if your opponent is picking your bananas up, you can classify this as pressure. They're pressured to pick up your banana, stop you from using it, throw it off stage or use it against you, and you KNOW these options because YOUR DIDDY! I personally like (if I can) to get extra aggressive because I know these options. The A button and Cstick are now known options so you have the upper hand realistically.

Also, sometimes forcing people to stay onstage is just as effective or more effective than going for gimps and whatnot. Just a concept. Keep it in mind.

Hope that all made sense

 

[jtm94]

Guy's first game in this set is AMAZING:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkRqDcKL92M

I just like the stuff that is possible with this character and I love the items.

 

[AbstractLogic]

As much as i know everyone loves those DA carry you off combos in 3.0 be aware that these are completely SDIable and can actually get you killed if the opponent knows the matchup. Be verrrry cautious and don't try it to much if you feel your opponent knows this.

 

[jtm94]

True enough, but in defense there are a lot of moves that can be SDId out of such as Fox's Upthrow to UAir. So a lot of things aren't guaranteed.

 

[AbstractLogic]

All I know is if a Diddy tries that junk on me, THEY will be the one eating the barrel spike