Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[AbstractLogic]

Nino seems unsure of how to play the MU imo. From my experience it's more or less one of back and forth zero-death type punishes on each other.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Yeah nino didn't know what he was doing. Junebug got away with a lot of things.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Just watched all three matches and junebug does really well sometimes. I can't say I think his banana game is "amazing", but he strings together some good stuff.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Yeah coming from brawl Diddy as well it seems relatively normal on the item end, idk though. Bananas are kinda just an extension of my hands at this point lol

Disqo has the swank style thread that I would STILL recommend players to take a look at if they are wondering about nanner related stuff.

 

[Soft Serve]

Maybe my banana game is just so un-optimized that I go crazy over everyone elses.

Boss is doing pretty well on Diddy right now at xanadu, dropped winners finals because he opted for olimar games 1/2, almost took game 5.

 

[AbstractLogic]

I really like Boss' Diddy actually. He's one of the few I actually look toward for some new technology

 

[Alexander Duprey]

I like Boss' use of dair, I haven't been able to work it into my combos very well tho. I have gotten dair to fair before like a falcon that **** was pretty sick

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I really should revise the banana thread

 

[jtm94]

Diddy is SUPER fun. I can do so much amazing tech with bananas.

I love chucking bananas at people and if they hit or shield I use z to grab it out of the air and chuck it at them again. I proceed until they get bottlenecked or get the to trip and fair away.

Does anyone else go for Footstool > UpB combos, or is that just me??

Also, you can double reverse SideB and it gives it some really neat uses. Same with peanut gun. I always accidentally reverse peanut gun.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Footstool Up-B is a well kept secret.

 

[Soft Serve]

Foot stool up b works? Damn i knew there would be a reason to map r to footstool.

 

[jtm94]

I thought it would work, so I went for it, and sure enough....

I've had x mapped to footstool for a while. I think it would be more efficient to map Z to footstool and just make X grab. It's a pain to hit X then immediately go to B, but it's doable so maybe I'll leave it as is.

you can also footstool to banana downthrow, but I don't know how much potential that yields.

 

[Soft Serve]

I
you can also footstool to banana downthrow, but I don't know how much potential that yields.

This works, its pretty similar to side-b jump > banana toss. If you AGT down then you can get the trip and be right there to capitalize, Its a good trick to remember and know how to use when you really need that trip> smash to end a stock on a floaty that wouldn't be in follow up range after a side-b slap.

 

[tripwire]

I like GT on shield to Up-B or F-Smash.

Edit- I really need to get some videos up. Oro said my Diddy looked pretty good last time I was on stream.

 

[SpiderMad]

@ AbstractLogic Diddy's MW Sucks, there's nothing that can be done with it

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

B-Reversing banana pull is pretty useless

No nonononono no no no.

Hell no. It's now the only way to combo into downB and it's an amazing platform check.

 

[Soft Serve]

No nonononono no no no.

Hell no. It's now the only way to combo into downB and it's an amazing platform check.

Whenever I cover tech-options on platforms by pulling a banana, I feel like I'm Dudley throwing roses.

 

[Froz0ne]

How do you guys feel about Diddy dittos. I can't seem to figure them out.

 

[Soft Serve]

Uhhh I suck majorly in Diddy dittos. Only advice I could give would a general one, if you're playing against a player that also has a good item/counter item game, don't leave your bananas lying around, they will just grab them and punish you hard for leaving it outside your sphere of influence. I don't know **** about the Diddy ditto but in general just hold onto your bananas more if the opponent starts using them against you well.

 

[Alexander Duprey]

No nonononono no no no.

Hell no. It's now the only way to combo into downB and it's an amazing platform check.

Well, not useless, just the one I use the least I guess. I'll try giving it some more love, what do you mean combo into downB?

 

[Soft Serve]

Well, not useless, just the one I use the least I guess. I'll try giving it some more love, what do you mean combo into downB?

I think he either means using the longer down-b pull to continue racking up percents/controlling space when you are juggling them, or using the initial trip boxes when you pull it that are behind you at like your head/hip. If those can be combo'd into I'd like to see it, that sounds like a cool tech chase tool.

 

[Froz0ne]

Uhhh I suck majorly in Diddy dittos. Only advice I could give would a general one, if you're playing against a player that also has a good item/counter item game, don't leave your bananas lying around, they will just grab them and punish you hard for leaving it outside your sphere of influence. I don't know **** about the Diddy ditto but in general just hold onto your bananas more if the opponent starts using them against you well.

Yeah from my experience I would agree. When I went to Xanadu a while back i did some dittos with Guy. To me they seemed to be based on who had the banana control rather than the skill level of the player.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Well, not useless, just the one I use the least I guess. I'll try giving it some more love, what do you mean combo into downB?

Most of the time the only way to combo into downB is through upthrow, which is guaranteed at low percents if you read their DI. You either have to (immediately after a SH) B-reverse the downB or do that "diagonal downB" crap that changes the direction you do it in, then move yourself towards them (or away, depending on DI) while you pull the banana. You can combo into other stuff right after, or grab that banana.

I've never combo'd into the hitbox on his hip or whatever since that ****'s gotta be impossible practically. lol


And yep, Diddy dittos = control the naners, don't let them control you. Get too hasty, you lose control. There's four in play, so you can't afford to lose any.

 

[Youngster Joey]

so im having a lot of trouble deciding on my main -.- its between diddy and mewtwo at this point. i used mewtwo a lot more than my diddy.. i went all diddy at apex but i only used him for a week before then. i just got off a 2 week run of all mewtwo and now im thinking of diddy again. i cant make up my mind ;~;

also disqo idk if you remember but we did a diddy ditto friendly at apex only one game tho

 

[SpiderMad]

Just wait til they make a Diddytwo

 

[AbstractLogic]

so im having a lot of trouble deciding on my main -.- its between diddy and mewtwo at this point. i used mewtwo a lot more than my diddy.. i went all diddy at apex but i only used him for a week before then. i just got off a 2 week run of all mewtwo and now im thinking of diddy again. i cant make up my mind ;~;

also disqo idk if you remember but we did a diddy ditto friendly at apex only one game tho

Diddy is so much more fun, so main him!!!


Mewtwo is a cheater booo

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5tb9_N4wbU

Lots of good examples of downB usage I think, though I failed downB combos all throughout the matches lol (Almost got it once but did it too slowly)

(Not so great Roy play, I suck)

 

[SpiderMad]

M2K said in an interview M2 is only good vs Spacies(/FFallers?), after he won a PM tournament: so you could save M2 for them. I've become pretty confused with what characters to use for tournament myself, I could write for an hour on it.

 

[Soft Serve]

Idk, I don't really like playing super counter-pick bros. Mostly because my only other character is Fox and he is arguably better in like every matchup.

Disqo is commentating SSS right now, lost to DEHF idk he he got knocked out http://www.twitch.tv/iebattlegrounds

 

[tripwire]

During my only Diddy Ditto I made sure to control at least 3 bananas and I tech'd when ever I slipped on what for safety. I wish i had more Did players in my area.

 

[SpiderMad]

@ tripwire How do you usually do against DLA? Every tourney I go to your not there, would you be willing to drive to palatine if my friend/Octorok hosts any fests on possibly Sundays

 

[Youngster Joey]

M2K said in an interview M2 is only good vs Spacies(/FFallers?), after he won a PM tournament: so you could save M2 for them. I've become pretty confused with what characters to use for tournament myself, I could write for an hour on it.

that is pretty wrong i think. i dont like fast fallers with m2. maybe im just playing the mus wrong. but i think light characters are easier mostly because you hit them once and its back to neutral. it is more boring but its easier imo. diddy has that stupid u smash combo on heavies and i prefer diddy against them but it would still be nice to have 1 character to main and knowing me i'll go back to diddy for a bit and go back to switching mains -.-

also when i use bananas i tend to mess up follow ups because people tech them... does anyone else have this problem?? ;~;

 

[Soft Serve]

I miss follow-ups on trips because I'm bad, but Adjusting to them mostly always teching isn't too bad for me. It might just be because I also play fox and am used to fast hard knockdowns setting up tech chases. If you get a trip on them and you are close, just run towards them, if they tech in place or behind you its a free side-b, if they go away you can re-grab the banana and use that, or depending on the character's tech rolls you can just hit them.


Falco's tech rolls are ****ing bull****

 

[AbstractLogic]

Side-b has a pretty long lasting grab box so id recommend that.

 

[Soft Serve]

grab is from frame 17-34. active quite a while. ledge grab is at 35 which is interesting and probably a good way to learn the exact timing of when you can grab. Might mess around with that later to visualize it and stuff.
Also:

The Jump Throw's knockback scaling is significantly higher; this makes it a more potent meteor finisher if done offstage and causes a ground bounce at earlier percents when done onstage.

Anyone mess around with this? I haven't been able to get a ground bounce at all But i really want one.

 

[Youngster Joey]

well lets see. im so used to brawl diddy not having techable bananas. when i see them hit the ground i auto assume that i can hit them. when i go for a hit they tech and then im screwed. like theyll be sitting on the ground for a bit before they actually tech which is why i have trouble adjusting so much. is there a way i can practice the timing for all these possible follow ups. i was thinking just flat out reading a tech roll with a d-air or nair or something.

actually i guess a better question would be would side b work if they dont tech? option coverage is what im looking for i guess and for now i find bananas not to my playstyle (yet). if i can figure out bananas then i might have a better reason for diddy over mewtwo

 

[Praxis]

well lets see. im so used to brawl diddy not having techable bananas. when i see them hit the ground i auto assume that i can hit them.

This is my exact problem. I keep getting people to trip in front of me and reflexively inputting dsmash - and they tech roll.

It's worse when I play with bad players because they actually get hit by it and reinforce the habit. I'm starting to just teach new players to tech roll just so I get the Brawl habit broken.

actually i guess a better question would be would side b work if they dont tech?

I don't think so. The grab portion won't grab a bouncing opponent. I'm starting to think I need to just sit and watch, though I'd love some ideas for option coverage.

option coverage is what im looking for i guess and for now i find bananas not to my playstyle (yet). if i can figure out bananas then i might have a better reason for diddy over mewtwo

Figure out bananas.

Playing Diddy without bananas is like trying to play Fox without shine.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Well, think of naner techs like this.

If you throw the banana at someone and it hits them, the banana is gonna end up a considerable distance in front of the side they got hit from. So? You just plan around that. Your options are to throw that banana again either at them or over them or, preferably, keep the banana there to cut rolling in that direction off as an option and go cover the other options they have. Whether they tech or not, you now have two out of the about 7 or 8 options they have cut off completely, you only have to worry about neutral/attack (teched or not) or rolling away (teched or not). It becomes much easier at that point. I usually just go in with a nair to cover neutral and rolling away. It's a safer option due to a lasting hitbox in case you do it too early or they roll. From there, experiment.

Basically, just realize naners are less derp, and you have to go for safer options after a banana trip than kill moves.

 

[Soft Serve]

Guy graces us with his insight yet again, you guys are awesome. Your post reminded me of something i had scribbled down in my notes a few weeks ago, i was trying to describe what you just said to myself but you put it in much better words.

Out of the 7 options the techie(techer? Idk) has (neutral get up, get up attack, un teched roll towards, away, neutral tech, tech towards, tech away) simply getting the trip removes 2 of the 7, (rolling inwards) asuming the banana doesnt land on a platform. Covering the other options differ depending on the character and stage positioning. Characters like falco/dk with good long fast tech rolls are hard to follow up if they tech away, i think popgun waveland towards them is a good option and forces more reaction (shield or a jump) than just running towards them. If they are near the ledge and teching away isnt an option, covering neutral techs and get up attacks are easy.

God damn i really need to optimize my play.

Anyone know about getting the side b jump to ground bounce? I cant figure it out.

 

[Praxis]

stuff

So, I found and watched some of your videos from Bowser's Revenge 10. Learned a few things- particularly, your usage of up-B (killed MK clean at 110%!), dash attack from platforms, airdodge cancelled throws, and dthrow. Excellent Diddy.

I feel like you might benefit from using more bananas and nair. I saw a few positions where a nair would have hit or continued a combo, and bananas were generally underutilized. Was this because Infinity was really good at using them as well?