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Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

AbstractLogic

AbstractLogic

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I've had the worst luck with mewtwo lately. I definitely feel like Diddy has the edge but I was eliminated by ARC there and then Denthorn's Mewtwo at Forte!
 
DiSQO_BuNNY

DiSQO_BuNNY

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Mewtwos hover bair is super dangerous. But if you can absolutely destroy him with peanuts and bananas, you can force him into scary situations. And because of m2s super long roll, that gives you those extra few frame seconds to react and tech chase with a banana.



And I mean guys, dthrow banana on shield is broken. I'm so serious. Plz get this into your play
 
ThatGuyYouMightKnow

ThatGuyYouMightKnow

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lol bladewise has great tech skill and puts Diddy's amazing normals to good use but his nanergame is so bad :<

It's easy to realize that'll happen between coming from Melee or Brawl
 
DiSQO_BuNNY

DiSQO_BuNNY

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I got scrapped by venoms cpt falcon and then surprisingly caught off guard by aions sonic.
I just. Ugh! I need need need need NEED to do something inside my own brain before apex.
 
AbstractLogic

AbstractLogic

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Disqo if you'd like I can watch some of your more relevant sets and give you some input. I'm not going to APEX, but I'd love to see the Kong do as well as possible!

I think a universal to winning harder matchups like Sheik is that we need to collectively work on our punish game. Diddy has so many ways to catch someone off guard, however I (along with other players I watch) am likely not getting the most I can off of each opportunity. Diddy's changes in this release were mostly made to give him a better followup/punish game.

I agree with Guy in that it would be wise to learn lots from the Bladewise style movement oriented Diddy while still keeping that oh-so-good brawl nanner game. Lots of set I've watched I've seen movement and positioning neglected too much in matchups.

It's a bit gimmicky, but I'd like to see more use of the fast-falled Dash Attack off platforms from players. It has ZERO endlag. You can grab/shield/spotdodge/smash/tilt/side-b/ ANYTHING from it and it can't be crouch cancelled. It's not something that should be spammed predictably, but it is one of the wrokarounds for diddy's otherwise slow aerial speed.

Diddy has finally been made more than viable IMO in 3.0 and I'd love to see more development on these options in particular. I almost feel like we should have a skype group or something of the sort just to freely discuss things with each other. I know there have been times when I've wanted to address things with certain players and not really known the best way to do it.
 
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ThatGuyYouMightKnow

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DA offstage is why I alwayS alwayS ALWAYS CP with GHZ for that anytime use platform. GHZ has walls too. It's a small stage for perfect nanergames. Diddy paradise. Use it.

Don't pick flat stages vs sheik. She disrupts your nanergame, you get ****ed. Problem with picking things like WW Yoshi story or GHZ against her is fair will destroy you so fast. Go BF or Pokestadium 2 or the kirby stage. Then depend on bananas. Get them out and don't come at her for **** unless they are out. She beats you without them. All i can say for now.

May god be on your side if you ever have to fight a Pit. Lol
 
Soft Serve

Soft Serve

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DA off platforms was something That I wanted to incorporate more into my game, its crazy
 
jtm94

jtm94

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I'm down for a skype group type of thing. Diddy isn't my main, but I'm always down to discuss.
I NEED to use dash attack off platforms more. I would like to think my nanergame isn't bad, but I need to be less dependent on them, and not give my opponent opportunities to use them against me.
 
SpiderMad

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ThatGuyYouMightKnow said:
civilizedrat23 is my skype.
Click to expand...
ratatoulle?
AbstractLogic said:
*Cues SpiderMad to post a Dash Attack video showing every option*
Click to expand...
maybe, but pretty much you just DA off at the start of a game on BF and get a free hit into usually Up-smash(or RAR Up-smash) or anything less or more risky you feel like: and once they get use to that you either pull back/FFall it more or just do something else like drop down banana pull if you think they won't drop down at all (most of the time they'll drop down and get hit by the DA, and they'll either the next time not drop down or instead drop down but expect the DA and be ready for it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRbJAQU4kM According to what Rat did here he dropped down and woulda been a free DA pretty sure, but I wasn't sure if he remembered my Diddy doing it so I went with just pulling a banana. Also at the beginning you see me peanut gun waveland grab a banana while the peanut keeps me safe and hits him for trying to jump OOS but then I just threw the banana too fast. I'm still not sure how I feel about bananas tripping on hit

The earlier AD in the peanut gun doesn't really help anything too much, if someone was really bad at doing the peanut gun early to get the waveland they're more happy but if you did it early and AD'd as soon as possible now you'd not be close to the ground at all. So it helps just if you wanted to do earlier SH Peanut AGTs though I don't still know the logistics of what works best between having the peanut and banana hitting at around the same time or slightly delayed depending on the situation.

I also think one of Diddy's best MUs might be DK, and I'm not sure what character to be for the Sheik MU myself (for Kels) but I think I'd rather be Diddy than DK vs Sheik. I think GUy's statements about picking dreamland and banana camping is pry best, if Diddy was more about juggling FD would be better but even with the up-air and up-throw changes it doesn't seem it'd be enough to be a good pick.

Also I would post a video of any of you people literally hanging on the ledge and then waiting to try to do some option only to get hit: when you guys should have just did a WJ Side-b. One of them was Royal on PS2 idk which game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKpAOVbPODI

Also Diddy never felt the same after 2.6 because of the Momentum added to certain things to counter the effects of land detections bugs being removed after they fixed certain landing detection bugs made Diddy feel different and kinda slower or something to me but it might be other things as well but one of the things was if you did say a backwards SH you'd float way farther and that felt cool and stuff along with other things but now it's different.

Also I'm pretty sure most of u are bad at early aerials, if you want a new diddy challenge record urself doing each of these.
Sorted in easiest to hardest kind of:
SH Bair DJ Bair Bair (triple Bair) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knNK-fLBNps and :36 in 2nd video below
SH Bair Waveland
SH Bair AGT Banana off the ground (that's on the ground)
SH Bair Up-air (I've found most useful in-game, and also one of the easier double aerials of Diddy's)
SH Bair Bair
SH Up-air Up-air
SH Bair Fair (hard)
SH Bair Nair (hard)
All of these will get the second aerial's hitbox out if you do it right/early enough: although Fair and Nair's hitbox is only out for 1 or 2 frames (Fair is definitely 1 or 2, Nair might be more if done frame perfect).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yZaBPp5ZF0#t=177
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHjTmi8twz8&list=PLovBMkMLex7xP-JgGCNJeai7iPd5hUKhe&index=1

Practice the same thing with Marth, he can do every aerial after Fair including even Bair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0sqGLVvFEI#t=163

o and since Diddy's Dair was made to come out earlier and can even AC in a SH now, you might be able to do it after a Bair but not likely but I'll test.

If you guys can't do any of those don't even try doing Squirtle's SH Bair WL, that's consecutively two 1 frame inputs cus almost nobody can do that even once let alone attempt in a match and I feel like like a 1 frame buffer would make this and other techniques 1 frame easier and thus make it a consecutive two frame input along with all these other early aerial tehcniques thus easier enough to make the game more awesome.

Also another past diddy challenge I don't remember any of you doing or recording would be to do a Ledge grab to WJ Wavebounce Neutral-B while having a banana on the stage (near the ledge) and AGT'ing it before touching the ground (through the Peanut gun's AD cancel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=87G-nPP4Njo#t=78 Exactly like in this video but instead have the banana laying on the stage
 
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AbstractLogic

AbstractLogic

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I'd actually argue that the SH Bair to Nair is the easiest of them all. But yes Diddy has some great SH shenanigans. The wavelanded BAirs is something that I think will be handy.
 
ThatGuyYouMightKnow

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You can dtilt while holding a banana during crawl.

May be pretty useful as a mixup to make people think you're gonna do some **** with the banana.

You could always do any air normal after a downB if you have a banana in hand, but that's not nearly as useful.
 
SpiderMad

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AbstractLogic said:
I'd actually argue that the SH Bair to Nair is the easiest of them all. But yes Diddy has some great SH shenanigans. The wavelanded BAirs is something that I think will be handy.
Click to expand...
Glad you're up for the challenge ;) , I'll be lookin for that video
ThatGuyYouMightKnow said:
You can dtilt while holding a banana during crawl.

May be pretty useful as a mixup to make people think you're gonna do some **** with the banana.

You could always do any air normal after a downB if you have a banana in hand, but that's not nearly as useful.
Click to expand...
I need to research more Brawl diddy techniques again
stayROYAL said:
Royal here, I'm not typically one to go on the forums but figured why not.
Click to expand...
Why'd you quit out vs Okami
 
stayROYAL

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Tired and I wasn't in the mood to deal with okami and his play style, I realize now that it was a bit "over board" and I should've just taken the ass beating on stream but hey it's all good.
SpiderMad said:
Glad you're up for the challenge ;) , I'll be lookin for that video

I need to research more Brawl diddy techniques again

Why'd you quit out vs Okami
Click to expand...
 
Soft Serve

Soft Serve

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Okami plays so patiently its like a different game sometimes. I remember playing friendlies with him last summer at a smashfest when he came back to AZ before he starts school again, it was fun but different.

God damn you can d-tilt while crawling with a bannana? thats sick. Diddy has so many options I think I need to make a chart or something of what options fit best in which situation and just learn them really well. I always choke and forget to the obvious option because I want to do something flashy/safer, even when it comes to which direction to Popgun WL or glide toss.
 
SpiderMad

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ur saying those fairs and dairs were wavelanded? oh wait i saw them,they mighta changed it i thought u could only ac fair in a sh, but the dair def wasnt ale to im pry sure but with the change glad to see it can: so all his aeirials can not only be AC'd in a SH but WL'd
 
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DiSQO_BuNNY

DiSQO_BuNNY

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Dang son
Watched it. You definitely shoulda won. You get extra sideB thirsty on GHZ tho. That's never good. I also feel like you both baird and naird OOS or in general a little excessively. Neither one if you really mixed up with grab pressure, which in turn amplifies your banana and sideB game.
June likes to fair a whole lot, rarely misses the Lcancel so it seems safe. Realistically this is a risky option to go for so many raw fairs. He made it work tho, I'm super impressed.
You still shoulda won tho. Play with music next time. Get that focus in.
AND DAMMIT STOP PLAYING FOR SO LONG WITHOUT A BANANA!
 
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