• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Kirby's Matchup Rankings

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
Okay guys, I know you want to get into the Falco discussion. We really need some hard facts to make any progress to a better ranking, most of the obvious points have been argued to death. I'm planning Falco's review week to be very early, so we can really grind out the details then...

But for now, let's review the rest of the rankings to make sure there are no glaring weaknesses in our arguments. I would like to present v1.0 for the next update of the matchup chart, and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with some of our changes. Especially review characters from the list of changes needed, as I'm sure that's where we will get the most debate.

Changes List
 

~Shao~

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
618
Location
Traveling to Bryyo on a warpstar
Dr. Peterson, you could reorganize the first post by placing the 50-50 match-ups in the middle, and then the advantages in Kirby's favor above and the disavantages below. Just a thought.

EDIT: I saw you posted for us to discuss on Falco...

Well, I have almost no experience against him so I prefer not to say anything.
 

SpikeSpiegel19

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
691
Location
Arlington
Honestly i think each person who wants to seriously discuss the Falco vs Kirby matchup should record a few matches vs a good Falco player, win or lose, and then we add the videos to a single thread, perhaps my Kirby vs Falco thread in the Falco page and then we discuss particulars of the matches and find significant weaknesses and strengths for the matchup.
 

lilthunder91013

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
54
Location
Ohio
Honestly i think each person who wants to seriously discuss the Falco vs Kirby matchup should record a few matches vs a good Falco player, win or lose, and then we add the videos to a single thread, perhaps my Kirby vs Falco thread in the Falco page and then we discuss particulars of the matches and find significant weaknesses and strengths for the matchup.
sounds like a good idea. i think im gunna start saving the games with my friend who is a pretty decent falco mainer


So i was looking over some of the old pages in this thread when i got the idea to list all of the characters that we haven't gone over so we know what is left to do. unfortunately i dont have enough time in the day to read over every page
 

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
We've gone over every character. I didn't post a ranking for any characters until they were discussed.

Since nobody is disagreeing with any rankings, I take it you all feel they are correct. I'm going to present them tomorrow in the Official Matchup Chart thread.

And how can I put this any more bluntly. Let the Falco discussion die. Do some research on your own, play some Falco's and record the results, win or loss. I'm planning Falco for Week #2, so that gives you some time to do so.
 

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
Weekly Character Review #1: King Dedede



No better place to start reviewing Kirby's matchups than against his bloated penguin rival. We seemed to have a lot of disagreements on Dedede, but it went overlooked because of debates over other matchups. The v1.0 ranking of 60-40 was a rough compromise on my part, and I think this matchup deserves further discussion. Below are some of the key points from our original arguments.

Kirby vs. Dedede:
Dedede has grab combos... but so does Kirby, and his are more reliable. As Dedede is a heavy character, Kirby's low-knockback moves like u-tilt and uair are ridiculously strong combo options. Dedede has range to trump Kirby's but enough of his moves have pre or post lag that Kirby can just play cautiously outside of Dedede's range and just hit him with bairs or fairs when the chance arrives. Hit and run works best once Kirby's low-damage combos are out of the way, and Dedede doesn't really have a good way to deal with it since he can't exactly punish Kirby's low-lag attacks.
With King DDD, even though you can combo him well, he has really long ranged aerials and his grab is longer than yours. I have fought against a few good DDDs and gimping is not the easiest thing to do either. I believe his back air has just a little bit of a longer range than yours. Also if you're not experienced with DDDs foward air, you will get hit by it. Probably 6:4 in DDD's favor.
Vs DDD

I think its even, even though DDD has Kirby outranged Kirby can gimp DDD to no end also. Patient spacing and good down b mind games can take the battle to the air where Kirby can excel as long as he's underneath.
King dedede Despite his grab combos, is easy to kill when hes off the stage so his size does not help him at all
he's also one of the characters you can dair->footstool if you do it right. And to help you out dair out prioritizes his recovery. The things to watch out for are his waddle dees,that's why you shouldn't try to suck in dedede often because one waddle dee swallowed and its a free fsmash hammer kill. (7-3 kirby's favor)
The only reason why it's 7-3 is because it only takes one grab to get dedede off the stage then it's all about who has the best mind games.
We can start the review discussing the points brought up in these previous posts.
 

Deg222

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
213
Location
Florida; I consider myself a decent brawl player.
Alright well, there's one thing everybody needs to get straight. If somehow you're fighting a DDD and you're gimping him, you're simply not fighting someone at your skill level and that defeats the purpose of the match up chart. The only true and reliable way to gimp DDD is with a down B, anything else is very risky to use. Let's go through every aerial:

Back air: His out ranges yours, not by much, but it does.
Forward air: These are two different moves really, if he sees you ready to go for a forward air, he can stay beneath you and hit you with his forward air.
Down air: Let's compare Kirby's down air with DDD's Up air because you won't ever really have both down airs collide. Kirby's down air has more of a start up lag while DDD's up air doesn't. DDD's up air has also longer range. The only thing that will go through this move is your down b.
Up air: Compared with DDD's down air, it's obvious his down air is longer and can space with it with a jump.

Into specials:

Inhale: You shouldn't ever really be able to pull off an inhale because he should be able to hit you right out of it. If you start from above DDD, he'll up air you, if you try to go on top of him and inhale, he'll hit you with a forward air or back air before you can even get to him.

The only reliable chance you have to gimp DDD is a down b. The only thing he can do at this point is either avoid it, or super armor it with an up b.


If you guys can say otherwise, please say so and back it up with facts because I really don't see Kirby gimping DDD easily at all. It can happen, but to say that it's an advantage over DDD is ridiculous.
 

Blackbelt

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
1,420
Location
California
Alright well, there's one thing everybody needs to get straight. If somehow you're fighting a DDD and you're gimping him, you're simply not fighting someone at your skill level and that defeats the purpose of the match up chart. The only true and reliable way to gimp DDD is with a down B, anything else is very risky to use. Let's go through every aerial:

Back air: His out ranges yours, not by much, but it does.
Forward air: These are two different moves really, if he sees you ready to go for a forward air, he can stay beneath you and hit you with his forward air.
Down air: Let's compare Kirby's down air with DDD's Up air because you won't ever really have both down airs collide. Kirby's down air has more of a start up lag while DDD's up air doesn't. DDD's up air has also longer range. The only thing that will go through this move is your down b.
Up air: Compared with DDD's down air, it's obvious his down air is longer and can space with it with a jump.

Into specials:

Inhale: You shouldn't ever really be able to pull off an inhale because he should be able to hit you right out of it. If you start from above DDD, he'll up air you, if you try to go on top of him and inhale, he'll hit you with a forward air or back air before you can even get to him.

The only reliable chance you have to gimp DDD is a down b. The only thing he can do at this point is either avoid it, or super armor it with an up b.


If you guys can say otherwise, please say so and back it up with facts because I really don't see Kirby gimping DDD easily at all. It can happen, but to say that it's an advantage over DDD is ridiculous.
You're right that we can't gimp Dedede very easily while he's jumping.


But if he ever uses his UpB to recover, he becomes one big gimpable target.

And we can always go out to him to force him to use his laggy aerials or use air dodges in order to force the UpB.
 

Reioumu

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
1,073
Location
Muppetland 64
When Dedede is off stage, try to Drill him with D-air. Or if it's obvious that he's about to up-B, just start floating around where the apex of his up-B is going to be so you can hit him off stage with F-air/B-air (depending on the diminishing attacks). Down-B isn't nearly as reliable as you think.
-Rei
 

TwilightKirby

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
552
Location
socal
DDDs forward air has tons of lag, and if he is recovering he will be jumping towards the stage. This means he will have to do forward air to attack you, and this has too much lag to really stop you from hitting him if you predict when he will use it (if you think he has a slow enough reaction hit him quickly or if he will try and start ahead of time wait for him to swing then hit him) As long as you keep hitting him away he will be forced to use his upb and you can very easily punish this move. If he lands on stage i have sometimes had enough time to hit him with a ground hammer. Basically gimping DDD involves forcing him into a situation where he has to use his laggy upb.

Also sure D3s uair beats kirbys dair, but realize he cant simply spam it at you because of how far he will fall when he stops jumping to do an uair. If you jump and dair at the same time you will pretty much stay in place, and you can fastfall at any time during the dair. This is great for mind games as you can see how your opponent reacts and fastfall at the right time. It only takes one hit from the dair to spike so this can gimp him pretty well too.

Oh and I think airhammer will beat his bair. His foot counts as a hitbox I believe and kirbys hammer is disjointed so it will hurt him without hurting kirby.
 

SpikeSpiegel19

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
691
Location
Arlington
umm... so i saw Chudat playing Kirby, and its the sickest Kirby i've ever seen. He was beating ROB's like it was no problem. Mew2king wouldnt play ddd cuz Chudat would've beat him badly. I believe that we all need to seriously need to take another look at how to play Kirby b4 we go into these in depth reviews. I was unable to record video of Chudat playing but i was able to watch many matches.

If u play Kirby and u use an aerial fast fall it. I dont care if its Bair or upair, forward air it doesn't matter Kirby becomes 10x faster when he fast falls his Bair. He also abuses uptilt to clash with other moves like Snakes uptilt or ROb's forward and downtilt but since Kirby's lag is less than everyone else after the clash Kirby can do a fast fall Bair or another uptilt if he's in range b4 his opponent.

My point here is that perhaps we should learn more about Kirby so we can better understand the matchups. I started using Chudat's playing style in friendlies after i was eliminated from the tourney and ROB was so much easier to play against. I would have to say it was almost even.
 

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
@Gonzo: A change in playstyle should not affect the ranking of a matchup if you analyzed the matchup correctly. If we didn't analyze the matchup ranking correctly, we should go back and look at that matchup again... oh, that's the point of the weekly reviews.

It's nice that you found a Kirby better than yourself. I'm sure it would be nice to discuss his playstyle... somewhere other than this thread.

And as far as getting Dedede mains involved, I'm working on it. I'll post in their boards and in the matchup chart discussion in the tactical boards to catch people's attention. I just woke up give me a break ;)
 

Demised

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
540
Location
67th ave, 101, Glendale AZ
Im sorry but I really feel like 80% of the people in this thread have absolutely no idea what there talkin about when it comes to kirby. They think they do cause whoever they play may not be that good or something. I dunno. As bad as that sounds, I really do mean it in the nicest way possible. Sorry for bein the douche =/.

(and sorry for bein off topic)
 

Deg222

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
213
Location
Florida; I consider myself a decent brawl player.
Im sorry but I really feel like 80% of the people in this thread have absolutely no idea what there talkin about when it comes to kirby. They think they do cause whoever they play may not be that good or something. I dunno. As bad as that sounds, I really do mean it in the nicest way possible. Sorry for bein the douche =/.

(and sorry for bein off topic)
Who are you talking about? lol

I don't think I'm bad, as I usually place pretty well in tournys. I just got 7th out of 48 in a local tourny, not too shabby.
 

SheerMadness

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
4,781
lol at SpikeSiegel

Basically everything I've seen from you about Kirby is extremely opinionated based solely on your own personal experience. Just because you get owned by Samus and DDD doesn't mean other people do. For whatever reason it seems like because you were the 1st one to post the video of Kirby's fthrow to upair chainthrow you see yourself as some kind of higher Kirby authority. And i don't really see why fast falling aerials is a huge breakthrough, it seems pritty logical to me.

Anyway I don't agree with most of Kirby's bad matchups on this chart. But unlike Siegel, it's just my opinion and I'm not trying to force anyone to agree with me. I'd have:

Snake: anywhere from 40-60 to 50-50

Marth: 45-55 to 50-50

Samus: 50-50 if not 60-40

ROB: 45-55 to 50-50

Zelda: 50-50

I pritty much only agree with G&W. As long as you play smart vs the above matchups I really don't see why you should have a disadvantage going into the match. Infact I really do think Kirby is one of the better vs Snake chars in the game. Yah if you keep running into his tilts you're going to get ***** but if you space ftilts, uptilts, backairs etc you should be fine vs most of these characters.
 

Deg222

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
213
Location
Florida; I consider myself a decent brawl player.
Alright, let's get back on topic before this gets out of hand.

K, so you people say you can gimp DDD when he uses his up b, but don't you think he will just cancel it and completely avoid your gimp instead? I mean sure you can hit him while he's coming up, but he won't flinch and that defeats the purpose of gimping, it is nice to rack up damage though. I don't know, it seems between my personal experience and thinking each move thoroughly, it would be really hard to approach DDD while trying to gimp him.
 

SpikeSpiegel19

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
691
Location
Arlington
lol at SpikeSiegel

Basically everything I've seen from you about Kirby is extremely opinionated based solely on your own personal experience. Just because you get owned by Samus and DDD doesn't mean other people do. For whatever reason it seems like because you were the 1st one to post the video of Kirby's fthrow to upair chainthrow you see yourself as some kind of higher Kirby authority. And i don't really see why fast falling aerials is a huge breakthrough, it seems pritty logical to me.

Anyway I don't agree with most of Kirby's bad matchups on this chart. But unlike Siegel, it's just my opinion and I'm not trying to force anyone to agree with me. I'd have:

Snake: anywhere from 40-60 to 50-50

Marth: 45-55 to 50-50

Samus: 50-50 if not 60-40

ROB: 45-55 to 50-50

Zelda: 50-50

I pritty much only agree with G&W. As long as you play smart vs the above matchups I really don't see why you should have a disadvantage going into the match. Infact I really do think Kirby is one of the better vs Snake chars in the game. Yah if you keep running into his tilts you're going to get ***** but if you space ftilts, uptilts, backairs etc you should be fine vs most of these characters.
lol have u played a pro snake player like Candy or seen players like chillindude snake vs chudat Kirby, or Guy Super Fly snake vs a kirby u would know that match isn't 50-50

and i dont appreciate being told that since i get owned that means the match up is bad. I dont even consider myself pro. I can't space like a pro or mindgame like they can but i do know Kirby's advantages and i base my opinions on that and honestly i'm gonna stop posting on the Kirby boards b/c i'm tired dealing with Aholes and newbs on them

PC out
 

Demised

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
540
Location
67th ave, 101, Glendale AZ
The 2 best snakes i've played are Ajax and DSF. I played them for awhile when i stayed with them after I got them from the bus station in AZ. We had alot of good matchs but over all were even. I think there both better players than me but for Kirby to be going toe to toe just fine makes me disagree with the 70-30 on snake thats for sure. Then whenever I play a metaknight in tourney thats usually what knocks me to losers and out if thats the case. I guess I just find that Kirby cant do anything really when playing pro MK's.

(This is all way off topic, back to dedede. )

EDIT: Heres a vid of team finals in AZ against dsf / Ajax. (Im in the green)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17imZwI7hZA
 

Colbert

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
119
I didn't quite understand Deg's post. What is stopping Kirby from gimping with an inhale during Dedede's UpB animation? Dedede can't attack out of an Upb with aerials.

Either way, I still think this is a 50:50 matchup. Here is what I posted before. I haven't seen much input when it comes to Dedede's side B.

"I think with Dedede it is 5:5. He's easy to combo, but he has a longer bair and his fair is good too. Gimping him isn't that easy, and he usually doesn't die after one dair, if it connect. His spacing gives some trouble and side b is an annoyance."
 

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
I love how I set up the week before this to make sure there were no disagreements with the current chart, yet nobody states any opinions then. I also love how people know they're off topic but continue to force the thread down an off topic road.

If you have a disagreement with the chart, you're going to have to wait until that character's weekly discussion comes around. I'm not acknowledging any posts until then. Sorry, hate to be an ******* about it. I am taking note of the controversial matchups, and we can get to those quickly.

Why can't we just discuss Dedede... there's plenty to talk about there. Like the discussion on his recovery. Easy to gimp or not?
 

Colbert

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
119
Oh, and to the trolls that have magically appeared....

Who is basing matchups soley on personal experience? While I do agree that some of these matches are influenced by them a bit (Samus), you guys make no valid points other than "lol play smurter then the oopponent!" or "one time i played snake and i gotz close!"

I play [wt]DSF and [wt]Bardull all the time at wtclan.com and the facts that we have already used to back up our matchups hold true in real matches. Playing a Snake doesn't involve having to space him as much as it involves trying to approach him. Utilt outprioritzes a Kirby aerial approach, and kills at the lower percents.
 

Deg222

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
213
Location
Florida; I consider myself a decent brawl player.
What I was saying earlier, is that if DDD uses his up b, he's not always gonna necessarily follow the up b all the way through, he can cancel it. Since he's such a fast faller to begin with, if he cancels his up b and DIs away and fast falls, he's going to get away from you quick.

Edit: Stop talking about other characters until that week comes up, we need more info on DDD!
 

Colbert

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
119
...I still don't get it.

What's stopping Dedede from getting inhaled after canceling the Super Dedede Jump? I'm having a hard time picturing this... DI away? Away from the stage?
 

Deg222

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
213
Location
Florida; I consider myself a decent brawl player.
Ok, when DDD is using up B, where do you picture him? I think we're picturing him using up B in 2 different places.

I see him using up B a little below the platform's level so he's able to cancel it and fastfall onto the edge very quick avoiding gimps.

What I'm saying is that DDD has a lot of options not to get gimped and his up B isn't the easiest thing to counter because of two things as I mentioned before. He can cancel it, and can fall very quick onto the edge.
 

TwilightKirby

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
552
Location
socal
Ok, when DDD is using up B, where do you picture him? I think we're picturing him using up B in 2 different places.

I see him using up B a little below the platform's level so he's able to cancel it and fastfall onto the edge very quick avoiding gimps.

What I'm saying is that DDD has a lot of options not to get gimped and his up B isn't the easiest thing to counter because of two things as I mentioned before. He can cancel it, and can fall very quick onto the edge.
Thats why you grab edgehog him or at least fake out that you will edgehog him so he lands on the stage where you hit him with your hammer XD

The point is DDDs upb is very laggy and predictable.
 

lilthunder91013

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
54
Location
Ohio
i think the kirby v ddd match is 65-45 because ddd has the power to easily hit kirby off, but it is balanced because of his extrealy laggy fsamsh and slow speed. i think a good kirby should be able to beat a good ddd most times. i think that if you go far enough out so that if they used the up-b they would die anyway he's not that hard to gimp
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
Kirby vs. Dedede

This match-up is very close to even, but if anyone has the advantage I would wager it would be Kirby.

Dedede
Advantages: Good Reach, Heavy Weight.
Disadvantages: Slow Air Speed, Slow Ground Speed, Slow Attacks, Large Size

Kirby
Advantages: Small Size, Strong Attacks, Combos, Attack Speed, Recovery
Disadvantages: Light Weight, Short Attacks

General Observations
Kirby can get damage in bursts, especially when striking at low percents. Dedede isn't especially difficult to get off-stage at which point Dedede's campy offense is negated. However, it's that same campy offense that can keep Kirby at a distance, building damage, and putting Kirby at a growing disadvantage.

Contrary to one's initial thought, it's really Kirby who has the better KO options in this fight. While Dedede houses some extremely powerful attacks, they're much less likely to land or sweet-spot on Kirby. Dedede will often times have to rely on weaker attacks due to speed or reach, especially when the Kirby player is smart enough to avoid the dreaded U-tilt. Kirby on the other hand has several attacks that hold enough power to net KOs that also have enough speed to punish a mistep from Dedede.

At a distance, Dedede's Waddle Dee Toss can prove useful, but Kirby's Final Cutter can be used to skillfully knock them away as well as send a Cutter shockwave through any number of Dees, Doos, and Dededes. Both characters have considerable lag to punish during these projectiles, but due to the slow speed of these fighters optimal punishment can be difficult.

The real battle takes place where projectiles can easily be shielded or Dodge and close enough to punish. At this distance, Kirby is looking for a way to bridge the gap and get some solid damage in while Dedede is keeping an extra step away to get the first hit with his long reaching attacks. Once Kirby and Dedede get into close quarters, Kirby is either approaching with an aerial, a tilt, or going for a grab - Dedede's options at this time is a 'stop-thrust' (holding out an attack for Kirby to run into such as D-tilt, B-air, etc.), Shield Camping (usually to net a grab), or to pull back and re-establish distance.

A decisive part of the fight is in the off-stage battle. King Dedede is less mobile and predictable upon his recovery than Kirby because Dedede's Jumps are shorter, fewer in number, and sort of pathetic. Kirby is floatier, has his Hammer for horizontal mobility, and can latch onto the ledge much easier with Final Cutter than Dedede's Super Jump. However, Dedede has some very effective edge guarding against Kirby because Dedede's B-air is stronger, larger, and a lot more intimidating to the light-weight Kirby than vice versa. They both have the option to go for a Swallowcide (of which Dedede's always seems more effective) but this usually results in both players losing a stock so it requires much more stategic implementation than simply hitting the guy as an edge guard.
 

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
Nice post t!mmy, very detailed and well thought out. I do want to point out that though you say its close to neutral, most of your argument points to an advantage to Kirby. Just look at your advantages and disadvantages for each character. Seems a little one-sided to me ;).

It seems that even if gimping DDD isn't as easy as orginally proposed, you should at least make an attempt so you can get a little damage on him. Might not get the kill, but its better than nothing?
 

t!MmY

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,146
Location
Oregon
NNID
t1mmy_smash
I do want to point out that though you say its close to neutral, most of your argument points to an advantage to Kirby.
There are a lot more Dedede players out there than Kirby players which means I've played Kirby vs. Dedede a lot more than I have used Dedede against Kirby. While I think it's likely that Kirby has the advantage in the fight, there could be things I didn't take into consideration for Dedede. Also, the range of Dedede's attacks plays a major role in the fight, but with Perfect Shielding and good timing I believe Kirby should be able to get around what Dedede can dish out, theoretically.

The way I see the fight is that the advantage actually goes to the player who makes better use of the stage. Dedede works well in wide spaces, Kirby does better on smaller stages. Also, edge guarding would play a big part in making use of the stage - obviously if either Kirby or Dedede get knocked off-stage they're going to at a tactical disadvantage. I think it's easier for Dedede to get Kirby off-stage at any given percent than vice versa, but I think Kirby has an easier time against edge guarding than Dedede.

So, like I mentioned it could be a rather neutral match up depending on the knowledge of the players, but I and other players aknowledge the advantages that Kirby has thus far in the meta game.
 

Tomato Kirby

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
582
lilthunder91013, 65-45 is 110...

...

I believe I agree with t!mMy's observations. It makes it a bit hard to add anything else...
 

PWNAGEPOLICE

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
34
Location
Dream Land
NNID
WellWisherELF
Coming from a Dedede main, I can safely say that this is a hard matchup for the king. First of all, Kirby's up-b negates waddle-dees and provides a campy approach. On the contrary, for the more aggressive Kirbys, lagless d-air to grab combos can completely devestate defensive shield grabbing Dededes with an easy 0-50%. Also, if Kirby can pull off a fresh F-smash at 80-90%, its likely to K.O.
 

lilthunder91013

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
54
Location
Ohio
Coming from a Dedede main, I can safely say that this is a hard matchup for the king. First of all, Kirby's up-b negates waddle-dees and provides a campy approach.
however most good kirby's are going to avoid using the up-b while on the stage because it is very punisable. IMO dodging or sheilding is the best approach to the waddle dees/doos
 

Dpete

Carnifex
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
317
Location
Louisville, KY
3DS FC
0834-1794-6801
Did you read t!mmy's post? Cutter is great to stop any potential camping from Dedede, aka Waddle-dees, at a distance, aka out of range of punishment. When the battle gets closer, that's when you shield/dodge the Waddle-dees, as t!mmy explained.
 
Top Bottom