Kirby's Matchup Rankings

[Deg222]

I found these 3 vids today:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Jf1MUMNA6g&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-vmG9RlV1g&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sr2LkFPolnk&feature=related

The Kirby got too aggressive at times which cost him big time. But eh, better than nothing.

 

[Demised]

Was playing Forwards Falco today. ****s tough. lol

 

[Colbert]

Wow. That Kirby sucked on the edge and wasted his jumps big time. A Falco player should not be winning on the edge, I think Falco and Kirby players will agree on that. He would often just wait on the stage for Falco to come back, so he could try to keep on fighting on the ground, especially on Lylat where he should be more agressive on the edge.

He also wasn't very good at getting out of chaingrabs, and would shield the phantasms instead of punishing them.

Oh, and while blowing that huge lead in game 2, he kept trying to hit with nairs.
?!?!

 

[MK26]

It sounds to me like you didn't read my post at all on gimping. Please try responding again after reading the correct information. Thank you. I give you full permission to try and debate me on that subject after reading my post and refuting points said in that post. It sounds to me like YOU are not the person that should be questioning whether I have read this thread or not.

I read your post on gimping. I realize that Kirby has 4-5 different moves to gimp Falco with. However, just about the only time that you'll be able to force a Falco to go for the ledge is if you trick him into hitting the second swing of your aerial hammer. If you have other options (that cannot be avoided; a b-air offstage will work, I know, but not necessarily all the time), let me know.

The Falcos' argument is that they will always have a way to get back onstage without having to go after the ledge. And, frankly, phantasm has so much horizontal distance that I believe them. At least, as long as they have good DI.

---

Oh, and you said "explicitly". Sorry bud, but I never knew that there was an experation date on this type of stuff.

WHAT?!? Can I sig this?

---

Gonzo pretty much said "I still say 60-40, but the Falco boards yelled at me so Ill say 55-45". Obviously thats an over-dramatization but you get the picture. His reasons for saying 55-45 are because of a compromise and "it would be safer to go with a more neutral matchup".

Read the whole posts and not just the parts where he agrees with you:

My experience makes me feel 60 - 40 however i haven't experienced everything to completely understand the matchup hence the reason i go with 55-45 for Kirby. I understand the Kirby boards feel as thought they have a definite 60-40 advantage, however, we all have to take into account the input from the Falco boards as well. Not to mention this game is new and characters full potentials haven't been reached yet. So its safer to go with a more neutral matchup ranking of 55-45 until something gives a definite clear cut advantage to one or the other

anyway its tru i made a compromise but thats due to, what i consider, a lack of experience against good falco's. This being said i have to compromise my 60-40 for 55-45 b/c i dont know how a pro Falco plays.

Read the bolded part. Just cause someone plays bad Falcos doesn't mean all Falcos are bad.

---

I don't understand your reasoning when you start saying in your old post "these people said this recently" and then now you're saying all people who have agreed with me on that day, when I said it seemed like it was a concensus, don't count because "It wasn't today"

When I said, "it wasn't today", I meant that 3xSwords posted his opinion twice in this topic and left. His last post was 5 days ago. He hasn't been a part of the discussion since he 'max revived' it last week.

Again, Twilight Kirby didn't give a numbered rating. I'll admit I missed the post where he said it was advantage Kirby, but advantage Kirby doesn't have to mean 60-40. Or 55-45, for that matter. He has cleared things up.

And again, Gonzo's reasoning is that from his personal experience, Kirby vs. Falco is 60-40. However, he also said that his personal experience is not a defining factor, as he hasn't played the best Falco's.

All I'm trying to say is, if you're saying statements like "consensus 60-40", make sure you have the facts to back up what you're saying.

---

Oh, and sorry for the spelling errors. I'm typing quickly and there isn't a spellcheck feature. All that matters is that you understand what I'm saying, correct? Like I said, try to stop personally attacking me.

You know what? This whole fight is stupid. Heck, we're both stupid for fighting over something so trivial. I'm calling a truce. Peace?

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

The Falco boards did say that they always have a way on to the stage but that doesnt mean they wont get hit when they get back on the stage. For example, we Fsmash our Falco opponent off the stage. Now he's trying to recover and he still has his second jump. We have to match their altitude in preparation for their phantasm back on to the stage. For example

*=stage
o=Falco
x=Kirby


***___x_______0

*******

This way even if they make it on to the stage were prepared to take advantage of the landing and falling lag they have after using phantasm. Also were making them think about grabbing the edge but were in a more advantageous position to protect the edge than they are to grab it.

 

[Colbert]

MK26, if you think that Falco will only try to sweetspot the edge after getting hit by an aerial hammer, than that is obviously a good thing. Why do you make it sound like Kirby has a harder time gimping Falco when going above the edge than at it? If a Falco will always go above the edge, except in this situation, doesn't that just make him even more predictable than he already is?

Phantasming high above the edge is just asking to be hit with a smash when falling down (bad DI), which is why a good Falco won't do it.

Phantasming about 1 characters length above the edge isn't any different from hitting them on their way to the ledge. Fsmash from the stage, final cutter, dair, bair, laser, etc. will all stop this and put Falco underneath the stage and force him to use his UpB.

---
Gonzo
To my knowledge, I think that matchups should be based on what people DO know as opposed to what they DON'T know. Gonzo said 60-40, but said it might be 55-45 because of what he does not know.

When you say "The following people explicitly said 55-45" you obviously don't understand what the word explicitly means. Gonzo didn't clearly say 55-45. He clearly said that HE believes it's 60-40 (at one point, even 70-30) but based on what he does not know it may be 55-45.

Twilight Kirby
Also, it was clearly stated in the first post that an advantage would be 60-40 or more. 55-45 is still considered neutral by the first post's standards.

Anyway, like Gonzo said, I think it is pointless to have the "Who said what and what they meant when saying it" argument.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

I'm basing my 604- opinion on the fact that i haven't played any good falco's

and since playing against Falco's who aren't good leads me to 60-40 then playing a good Falco at the least would change my personal opinion to 55-45 thats y i officially say 55-45

 

[Dpete]

This is pointless.

 

[MK26]

To Colbert: I don't feel like fighting anymore. You win. Are you happy now?

To Gonzo: Thank you for clarifying.

To Peterson: Final verdict?

To everybody: Let's just get on with the next week. We have completed our twelfth day of arguing nothing but Falco. Who's our next character gonna be?

 

[Colbert]

I accept your apology. 60-40 it is. >_>

Like I said, I agree that it is pointless to play the "Who said what and what they meant when saying it" argument. If you don't want to debate me based on facts than don't. The fact of the matter remains that Kirby just has more advantages on paper.

"Falco's often rely on their lasers and chaingrabs to win games, and neither of these work nearly as effective on Kirby compared to others.

He can't compete in the air.
He gets out chaingrabbed by us.
He has a harder time killing than us.
He can't camp as well as he would like.
He is easily edgeguarded

The fact that he has a better ground game can not outweigh all of this."

 

[t!MmY]

The reason the Kirby vs. Falco debate is questionable is because Kirby had a HUGE advantage on Falco just recently in the beginnnig days of Brawl. Kirby's grab game and combos were easy to implement in the meta game while Falco players were still trying to figure out the transition from Melee. I would say the match up used to be more like 75-25 in Kirby's favor.

Now that Falco players have become more familiar with the character, his strengths and how to overcome his weaknesses, the odds are falling from Kirby and starting to look more even. Falco is a great character with many options, easily one of the top characters in the game at this point. While Kirby still has the advantages he used to have on Falco, such as destroying his recovery and abusing combos, they're just not as strong as they once were.

This match up is nearly neutral, and Falco players will likely turn that around so that it is Kirby who has the disadvantage in the match. What we Kirby players need to do is accept that Falco's game has become stronger, play against Falco players who know what they're doing, and develop new techniques to put the game back in Kirby's favor. If Falco players can do this, than Kirby players can do it right back to Falco.

 

[joedragon15]

hmm.. from my experience at the weeklies and with my friends kirby is nuetral to every char in the game except for snake. and yeah he falls fast but snake has an infinant recovery and then snakes air game is good. the only thing i really got to say is that if u cant get through other char. easy then u need to practice some more. cuz me and my friends play agaisnt pros like "bum" and crismis and lightxdream. and its like kirby players need to learn how to space their moves and come up with different strategies for each char. cuz really guys the space animals r easy to gimp and they get comboed real easy if u know what u doing. either its just me or everyone here needs to go to more tourneys and test thier skills agaisnt other people because different people play in different ways. u know? lol like if u really wanna judge on how kirby fairs agaisnt other chars. then look at gonzo`s vids on youtube and u will see kirby can reall beat any char..... oh and this goes to "delta z" falco can chain grab kirby but if u have really good DI then u shouldnt worry. lol

 

[~Shao~]

It's been 2 weeks now since the Falco discussion has started and it looks like they have come to an agreement, isn't it time we start another character?

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

We haven't come to an agreement yet. Dr. Peterson will decide on the final verdict for the Matchup Ranking against Falco i have a feeling were gonna c it at 55-45 or 60-40.

But in the mean time we can have discussion about a character other than Falco. I suggest MK.

 

[DanGR]

I can agree with that. The only thing you have to watch out for are rest combos, as those have potential to kill Kirby at lower percents. Jiggs seems to be a case of "anything you can do I can do better."

70-30 or 65-35 sounds good

I don't agree with this. Storm92 said that Kirby had a better ground game than Jiggs. If Jiggs has a better aerial game than kirby, and has the best aerial maneuverability in the game, why should she ever be on the ground?(except to get back her jumps) I've fought my friend's Zelda as Jiggs and I never land on the ground or do any ground attacks. I can SHbairs, dairs, and fairs, and then WoP the crap out of her all day and not have to worry about her dtilt, dsmash, or grab. I think y'all need to review this matchup again.

I'm gonna review what Storm92 said a while back about jiggs. Now before I begin, you can't just assume that she sucks. When you're discussing matchups you have to look at the matchup specific info instead of the tiers. Having said that, here we go... [comments in green]

We don't have Jiggs on the list yet.
In the air, Jigglypuff has a slight advantage with overall better moves, but luckily her biggest weapon, W.O.P., is pretty much useless against Kirby who has decent aerial mobility and multiple jumps.
ok, so you say that Jiggs might have a harder time WoP Kirby than she would most characters b/c of Kirby's multiple jumps. But Jiggs aerial game>Kirby's right? How can those coincide?
On the turnside, almost everything we try to do with gimping doesn't work too well on Jiggs, as she can easily recover despite having no third jump with upB.
would y'all say that Kirby's gimping abilities is Kirby's biggest killer? I think so. (with the experiences I've had against him) So we take away Kirby's gimping abilities from the scene.
On the ground, Kirby far outclasses Jigglypuff. While we have three reliable finishers against her with Usmash, Fsmash, and the hammer (Dsmash can too at higher %s). We have faster, better tilts with way better range than Jigg's little hands. Feet>hands.
Jiggs is the most aerial character in the game. She has no need to be on the ground during the entire match. You can't put very much weight on this.
Although we can't pull off our throw combos on her due to her floatiness and great aerial mobility, we can overwhelm her on the ground and then finish her at a fairly low percent because of her extreme light-weight.
You acknowledge Kirby's hard time racking damage, but go on to say that Kirby's ground game>Jiggs ground game. You need to understand that Jiggs doesn't need to be on the ground. >_>
Rock and Usmash make any Jigg's day bad.
How does rock become a reliable kill move on Jiggs? That doesn't make any sense, with the playstyle that Jiggs has. Upsmash might work sometimes, but you can't count on it.
Also, on a minor note, our specials are better than hers by far. UpB gives us a projectile to use against her, who has none. NeutralB is near useless for copying her ability, but can set us up for some good stage spikes.
this weighs nothing
So somewhere around 65-35 or 70-30 in favor of Kirby?
Now this is what really bothers me. How did you come up with 65-35 or 70-30 with everything you just provided???

Jiggs
-Better aerial game
-Kirby's WoP doesn't work on Jiggs
-Kirby can't combo Jiggs well due to floatyness

Kirby
-Better ground game
-Jiggs can't WoP kill Kirby very well either

The way I see it, you're arguing that Kirby's ground game is better than Jiggs, so it's 65-35 Kirby? Hows that work? To me, that's like saying Kirby's air game>Snake's air game, and then conclude that Kirby>Snake. From what we've just put together, I can safely say that Kirby DOES NOT have the advantage on Jiggs. If anything, it's Jiggs>Kirby. I hope this isn't what you did for the other matchups. <_<

I found a videos from the Jiggs video archive to give y'all a glance at what the matchup is like. Just disregard the suicides:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yB2LRnPYKoE

 

[~Gonzo~]

Kirby beats Jigglypuff. I dont know for what reasons but Kirby doesnt seem to have issues playing against Jiggz.

Utilt kills all of Jiggz's aerials, spaced hammers make it hard for Jiggz to get close. And Jigglypuffs light weight makes him easy to KO

 

[TwilightKirby]

Actually I'm not really sure that jiggly even has a better airgame than kirby. Jiggly can chain aerials together much better sure, but kirbys aerials have more range and a lot of knockback, making them much more capable of getting a kill. The only aerial that ever consistently can hit me is pound due to its uber priority (I attack jiggly and get hurt =/) Aerial hammer gives kirby an easy way to ko in the air, and it even has more range than jigglys aerials.

I don't think jiggly can really approach kirby on the ground from the air either. I find that an utilt usually beats any aerial attack jiggly can throw at kirby. Kirby has a lot of the same style of attacks as jiggly just with more range and knockback. Not to mention how easy it is to ko jigglypuff. Oh and jigglys rollout can just be inhaled(usually I just react to when they start to charge and kirby usually starts inhale in time) and rest is reeeeaaalllyyy difficult to hit little kirby with. This means jiggly either has to wall of pain a character that has at least an even aerial game with jiggly and great recovery, or use a smash on the ground, and kirby can just fsmash jiggly out of all of its smashes.

I don't think jiggly works well against other characters that have good aerial games since jigglypuff is at its best when wall of paining and chaining aerials together, which is much easier on someone with laggy aerials and large.

 

[storm92]

Ah, I didn't see that post until today.
Good, I love some good discussions. ^_^

Well, what I meant with Kirby>Jiggz ground game was that due to Jiggz having a basically nonexistent ground game, she needs to rely on SH'd aerials while another char is on the ground. This is where we can beat her, as TwilightKirby overviewed. Utilt can beat an incoming Dair easily, as we have more range on basically every move. Shieldgrabbing is another problem for Jiggz, but I can't really point that out as that's a problem with every character and doing SH'd aerials.
In the air, I can admit that I was wrong to say Jiggs has a better game than Kirby. Well-spaced Bairs by Kirby beat Jiggly's Fair, which is her best approach move as it has decent priority and the best range of all aerials. Our Dair beats her Uair for sure, so we can even approach from the top. Also, the stone isn't as hard to hit as you make it out to be. Either for edgeguarding or a Jiggs trying to Rest/aerial from below, we can hit her and the knockback combined with her extreme light weight sends her flying.
You can't say our specials don't amount to nothing. As outlined above, hammer outranges everything (maybe her Fair is equal) and kills at low % on the ground and in the air. Final Cutter allows us to space even more without spamming, and rack up some damage at good times. Inhale can be used to get Jiggz ability which allows for a fairly easy KO or to inhale then stage spike, and with Kirby's gimping ability with Dair she will have a tough time getting back up to the edge.

Jiggs>Kirby is nonsensical to me. Everything Jigglypuff has, Kirby does it better. We have more range on aerials, tilts, and smashes. Jigg won't be on the ground at all, but Utilt can shut down her SH'd aerials, and the others can be shieldgrabbed. We can actually gimp Jigglypuff with stage spikes, hammers, and occasional Dairs, but Jiggly can't do the same unless the Kirby player doesn't know how to air dodge/hammer. Kirby has the complete advantage in this match-up.


EDIT: Also, that video is ----. The Kirby player doesn't know how to use Kirby well at all. I saw like...3 Bairs, he stayed on the ground most the time, and used Final Cutter way too much.

 

[DanGR]

that's better^. I don't really feel like typing a lot, but it seems you got the matchup all worked out. I'm only concerned that people won't give the lower tier characters the benefit of the doubt. You explained your reasoning well. good job.

The only problems I have with what you said was that Kirby's air game>Jiggs air game. That's not true. Now, kirby does have better priority, but that's not everything. (Pound goes through everything Kirby has as well) Jiggs strings attacks better than kirby does, and Jiggs has better edgeguarding. The biggest thing is that Jiggs has much better aerial maneuverability than Kirby does. This is overlooked by everyone. It's something that can't really be described on paper, but it's there. Jiggs can fake out Kirby in the air with all the options she has. It's rather easy to stay out of range of Kirby's aerials, and use bair and pound to sneak between the lingering hitboxes of Kirby's attacks to start strings. This rivals Kirby big time.
"Shieldgrabbing is another problem for Jiggz, but I can't really point that out as that's a problem with every character and doing SH'd aerials."
It's not a problem in the slightest. Jiggs has enough aerial control after fair and bair to DI away from every shieldgrab. Dair has enough multihits to get to your backside as well.

The video-I tried to find a better example cuz neither player was very good, but there aren't any. They're nonexistent. The only thing I can try to do is show you guys my Jigglypuff against the best Kirby in the southeast. I'll try to record some the next chance I get.

 

[TwilightKirby]

Well Dangr, it depends on what you mean by better. Kirby has more range and knockback and either just as much damage if not more, plus his dair spikes instead. This means kirby can kill with a lot less aerials than jigglypuff. Now in this matchup itself, jigglypuffs air game does not work well. Jiggly can chain aerials, but kirby can just di out of range and hit back or airdodge through and bair kill jiggly.

It is true jiggly has more maneuverability, and thats why I usually just hit jiggly out of attacks rather than shieldgrabbing. Aerial DI is meaningless if I hit jigglypuff out of its attacks since there is no time to retreat.

imo jiggly and kirby just have different airgames, and they are good in different situations. Kirbys is better in the case of jiggly vs kirby.

I've played a few jiggly players and if I play them in a tourney match they usually switch characters. They find it that annoying/difficult. The only way for jiggly to win is to use pounds unexpectedly, space extremely well and hit in between kirbys attacks. Which I know is possible because that is what I have to do to beat marths and snakes. But I have to say it is a complete pain in the ***/requires a lot of patience =/

 

[~Gonzo~]

I agree with Twilight on this one.

 

[Staco]

I am not really one of the "best" kirby but I won 2 times with kirby against one of the best marth players
I dont think, that it is so bad for kirby against marth
35-65
not 30-70

 

[3xSwords]

Question: Why does Marth come up in a discussion about Jiggz vs Kirby? And why are we even discussing Jiggz vs Kirby anyway?

Anyway Frozzn plz describe your reasoning. We really can't get that far when you refer to a person without giving him a name, and the fact that you only won twice against "one of the best marth players" doesn't really give enough reason that 35-65 is any better estimate than 30-70.

In short what does Kirby have against Marth that improves a Kirby vs Marth situation. Anyway this thread was made a while back so a lot of the %'s are viable for change and aren't as accurate as they should be.

 

[storm92]

I've beaten Marth players too, but that says absolutely nothing about the match-up.
He still has great range, builds damage quickly and easily, and can space us so it makes it pretty much impossible to approach.

 

[TwilightKirby]

ZOMG GAIS I 3STOCKED A MARTH IT SHOULD BE 80:20 KIRBYS FAVOR!!


Yeah, matchups are theory based for the most part and basically, I think of it as how annoying it generally is to play the character and how patient you have to be to win. The thing about marth is there is nooooo room for error. You get tippered fsmashed at 40%, you die and marth just got ahead.

Also, for kirby usually on his disadvantages, you have to play with a bait and punish style rather than an aggressive one. If your marth player isn't difficult to beat he is doing somethting wrong. Most likely spacing since thats what can screw over kirby the most if done perfectly since marth has more range =/

 

[~Gonzo~]

i agree with Twilight on this one, if u make the first move U will always be at a disadvantage due to Math's greater range. So to counter their range u make them make the first move. Thats what baiting is. And then u take the opening u just made and build some damage and then back away and counter their next move. Its a cheap strategy but necessary for beating characters who have more range than u.

 

[3xSwords]

Gonzo nothing in this world of competitive smash is "cheap." There's broken/all things that are banned but everything else is fair game. Grabbing will probably get you most of your damage. As on the ground and in the air it will be very hard to beat his range. In the air, Kirby's bair is my move of choice, as it has good range and can easily punish any mistakes he makes in the air.

On the ground either grabbing, f-tilt, or jabbing, When the Marth does a mad dash to do either dancing blade or grab you , f-tilt is a surprise in-your-face counter. Jabbing prevents him from rapping you out of a spot dodge and remember you grab range is larger than his.

 

[storm92]

Dtilt>Ftilt.
Almost always.

 

[poorboy93]

wow, Hmmm Ice climbers shouldnt be that hard against kirby, Using proper spacings with bair you shouldnt even get grabbed.. plus you could edgeguard him inhale then spit under FD or w/e stage your on
I main G&W sooo,, =]]]

 

[TwilightKirby]

One time I was playing an ice climbers player (the only good one in socal) and I inhaled nana and quickly jumped off the ledge before he could knock her out of me (we each had 2 stocks and he was at 0 and i had been chain grabed to like 90% o.o) then I was waiting for nana to pop out from auto computer struggle.... but... NANA DOESN'T STRUGGLE!!!! =/ so I kirbycided nana and looked ******** lol. But I came back =D popo is a lot easier by himself.

So anyways I'm not sure if ice climbers are really a disadvantage.... they're just... really.. really.. annoying.

Though popo by himself can kill kirby at around 100% wtf o.o inhales and spits are great though. Really ice climbers have a completely different method of beating them. You have to split them up and then keep them away from each other. Don't even pay attention to if its nana or popo just as long as they are apart. Oh and realize nana shields slightly slower than popo so you can fsmash and hit nana away even if popo shields in time usually. Inhaling them out of a dash grab and spitting immediately is always fun too ^^

Just keep your top priorities at not getting grabbed and keeping them seperated. And still be careful if popo is by himself cause he is still pretty capable of killing

 

[3xSwords]

Wait you can't get grabbed while you swallowed somebody right? Then using inhale would be really effect. Wow I need to use this more against IC's. And you can always do the kirbycide where you spit them into the underside of the stage, and since nana doesn't struggle it should be a guaranteed KO.

 

[~Gonzo~]

thats a very very effective strategy, and if the IC player is crazy enough to come after u to save Nana u might just get an easy stock

 

[poorboy93]

YES INHALE > Ice Climbers... All you reallly have to do is INHALE very close to the ledge and off stage. (POPO if you want a kill) Then SPIT one of them UNDER THE STAGE. INSTANT kill right thurr.... since they cant recover under the stage.... AND recover!.
^ WORKS effectively against people with people with tether recovery too!

 

[~Gonzo~]

hell u can spit chain nana in the air to kill her, also somethings Inhale doesn't beat, IC ice block, IC blizzard attack thing.

 

[TwilightKirby]

I just use it when they are going to try to grab me. Which is like 90% of the time they are on the ground. If they dash towards me... hmmmmmmm I wonder what they are trying to do? =P

 

[Demised]

When i was in New Mexico last week i played Melee1. By far the best Iceys i've played as of yet. Knocked him to losers to eventually get knocked out by him in the semis =/. Kirby against a very skilled iceys is tough. Ice climbers Down+B make them a fortress thats hard to outspace since when you finally make your move, your putting yourself at a huge risk to get grabbed. Especially when everytime he grabbed me it was a guarenteed 80%-100% if not dead. That and Iceys up air beats everything Kirby has but Rock. But have to be careful since that has a great chance of leading into getting yourself grabbed.

The best advice i could give was Up throw on platform stages into any air move but down air since it splits them up just enough to pressure them. Also sucking in either Nana / Popo from the edge and spitting them out under the stage is almost a guarentee to kill atleast one of them. But over all, you have to do whatever it takes to break the egg(split them up).

EDIT: oh yah, Iceys spamming Down+B plus Forward+B is deaaadddly. Especially since if it annoys you it makes you play more aggressive. Dont fall for this mind game =)

 

[poorboy93]

Wow, To avoid IC down b, Simply walk the other way? Its not like they can move or anything while doing it. You need to space properly but bair beats over B oh and this isnt melee. Oh and if you space right, short hopped bairs can help you almost never get grabbed.
Cant Kirby jump out of some chaingrabs by IC? I think the only one he cant get out of is the Back throw CG and the one that involves Fair.
Am I the ony one who thinks that Ic is 60-40 In Kirby's Favor?

 

[~Gonzo~]

its even, just cuz chaingrab / o-death grab is a big equalizer

 

[TwilightKirby]

Poorboy... I don't think you have seen proper use of the Ice climber down b... they alternately short hop approach with it so that theres a constant stream of ice going up and down while they move towards you. Its pretty ****.

Oh and getting grabbed can really screw you over. If they are really good they can pull off a 0-death while essentially not moving at all.

 

[3xSwords]

What else besides Kirby's bair beats IC's sideB? I know shield grabbing that thing is near impossible. Ftilt? F-smash? (I'm just guessing right now)

I have to say IC's is one of Kirby's most annoying matchups esp. on WiFi. Usually its the other way around but not this time ><