Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Random question: What does Kirby have on Sheik that warrants a +3 ratio for him?

 

[Juushichi]

Kirby can do anything he wants.

That matchup is ***.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Details please. I just always wondered this and never got a full explanation other than "Bair destroys us"

 

[MikeKirby]

I would kinda like to know too. Being a Kirby main... ironic I know.
I mean I always win but I don't really know the match-up all that well. Gonzo Combo doesn't work at 0% so I have to D-throw>U-tilt. Umm... that's the only thing I do different.
Other than that, it's just classic play--B-air all day erryday.

 

[t!MmY]

B-air ***** Sheik, and U-tilt ***** Sheik, even Sheik's needles **** Sheik... Sheik just likes to get *****.

Spoiler

I actually think +3 is too high

 

[DRDN]

people use that chart? I thought it was widely disliked because almost every number seemed off

 

[WindMajor]

Every number will seem off because matchup ratings are all based on opinions. None of it is fact.

Nobody is right or wrong, but people will continue to argue that it's all wrong and that the MU Chart is a travesty.

 

[DRDN]

Yeah but I thought they were way off the Match-up ratings everyones already done on every char page

 

[WindMajor]

Some of them were, yeah, like the ratios for the characters mentioned in the OP (I think Luigi, Link, etc.). The majority of it is pretty accurate, more accurate than people are willing to give credit for. Most of the changes that people suggest are only like 1 point off of what is originally put in the MU chart, which really isn't that huge of a deal, considering that neither of them are right or wrong, and that their opinions on the ratio aren't far off from each other.

Toon Link's ratios are spot on, and I'll be damned if you guys think otherwise.

 

[Kewkky]

In simpler words, the MU Chart can't be perfect, but it's pretty darn good.

The most vocal people who say it's wrong aren't even top level players, since most of the people who we asked for input were top level players. And some of us are top level players for the characters we participated in. I'm very pleased with Kirby's MU spread, it's not EXACTLY how I feel his MUs are, but it's close enough and that's what matters.

 

[DRDN]

Which of his MUs do you think should be different?

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

When it comes to throws. What other moves can combo after his throws? Mostly with Uthrow and Bthrow. I know the Fthrow>Uair>Fthrow>Hammer/Fair/Uair, and Dthrow>shield grab>Dthrow>next move based on the situation.

 

[~Shao~]

For B-throw, you can buffer a b-air on some heavy-weights, depending on their DI. As for u-throw, you can't combo, just read their DI/airdodge and react accordingly.

 

[T-nuts]

I'm very pleased with Kirby's MU spread, it's not EXACTLY how I feel his MUs are, but it's close enough and that's what matters.

I agree with kirby's matchup spread for the most part but that doesnt mean im happy with it. if im looking at the right chart, then kirby doesnt have the advantage against a single character higher than him on the tier list?

oh well. time to switch to MK <-- lol what is this new smiley about

 

[Sage JoWii]

>_> I looked around the board since I posted in the tournament thread and saw this conversation.

Kirby beats, or goes even, with everyone below him in the tier list. Kirby loses to, or goes even w/ everyone above him in the tier list. Off the top of my head, I can't remember if there were any deviations from this but it's a fairly accurate depiction of Kirby compared to the rest of the cast. The Kirby part of the chart is at least 90% accurate if not 95-99% correct already. Anything that seems off, is probably because the other side of the MU wouldn't concede defeat because no one wants to lose to a cute pink puffball.

Also, anyone who is bad in up-close and personal footsies mid-match should pick up Zangief in SSF4. My cross ups are getting ridiculous.

 

[DRDN]

I have a question about Kirbycides what determines who dies first or if they die at the same time I had one last night where I died first but up until it said I was dead I saw a stuffed kirby in the little circle and was mashing jump in case he broke out last second

 

[Kewkky]

I have a question about Kirbycides what determines who dies first or if they die at the same time I had one last night where I died first but up until it said I was dead I saw a stuffed kirby in the little circle and was mashing jump in case he broke out last second

If your opponent falls faster than Kirby, then Kirby survives/footstools the other guy. If the opponent falls slower than Kirby then Kirby dies first/gets footstooled. If they fall about the same speed, then the slower one survives/Kirby dies, and as for footstools, it depends on who jumps faster. When the opponent breaks out, he appears a little higher than Kirby I think. It's either that, or since Kirby is already going down and in movement and the opponent just broke out, his fall speed has to accelerate first, so he's left slightly behind while Kirby keeps falling. If the opponent is heavier than Kirby, he'll catch up to Kirby and he'll die first or get footstooled by us. If he's about the same fall speed or slower, then he survives and gets the footstool too.

And if Kirby goes all the way down with his opponent inhaled and he doesn't break out, and you hit the blast zone, you both die at the same time.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

is dair to Fsmash legit? if so what are the conditions

 

[MikeKirby]

D-air>F-smash is NOT that legit and far from being a combo. Bummer, huh? Unless your opponent is ignorant that tactic usually doesn't work. For starters D-air has some noticable start-up. It can be seen coming and your opponent can move around you to avoid it. Also our D-air isn't disjointed in any way so you can get hit out of it easily. If you somehow managed to get them in your D-air your opponent can SDI out of your range and even punish you before your F-smash comes out. Best case scenario; you land a sour spotted F-smash. Not only that your opponent can just put a shield up after the D-air and your F-smash gets punished. D-air>F-smash CAN work, though, if you keep your opponent guessing with mix-ups.

A better choice is D-air>F-tilt/D-tilt. Kirby's tilts come out really quick and if they managed to DI out of your tilt range you are still moderately safe from a punisher. Overall though, D-air is not a move to spam but if you do throw one out... well yeah a tilt is the best bet. Heck, If they are shield happy going for a grab isn't a bad idea.

 

[Kewkky]

MikeKirby spits out truth, tilts or grabs after dair is your best bet. Ftilt comes out in frame 5, and fsmash comes out in frame 12. That's a 7 frame difference! Ftilt is closer to a combo than fsmash will ever be. :/

 

[Triple R]

While what they say is true, you just gotta know when to try it.

If it is on a flat stage do a tilt like they said. If you catch them on slopes go for it.

I wouldn't say get rid of it in your game, but just use it sparingly at the right moments.

 

[T-nuts]

Depending on how you hit with it and your opponent's percentage, dair can also pop your opponent up in the air directly in front of you or (I think, its been a while) cause them to trip. If that happens fsmash is definitely a good idea.

 

[violin- the hybrid strings]

this is going to sound really lame, but how do you short hop/jump? I am using a wiimote with a nunchuck, and am able to do it very inconsistantly.

 

[DRDN]

If you use a button hit it lightly if you use the stick only move it half way up I suggest getting used to the button but that's all personal prefrence

 

[Kewkky]

Yep, a quick jab at a button means a short hop. A small, quick tilt up on the control stick will also give you a short hop.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Dunno if this has been asked already, but is Fthrow -> Dair guaranteed at low percentages at the edge on Falco, Fox, Wolf, or Dedede?

 

[Kewkky]

Nope, dair's too slow. Uair works cuz it's fast enough (frame 10), but dair's noticeably slower (frame 18). It may surprise an unsuspecting opponent more than once though, since they'll be used to expecting a uair.

 

[Kappy]

this is going to sound really lame, but how do you short hop/jump? I am using a wiimote with a nunchuck, and am able to do it very inconsistantly.

My specialty!

There's a few things you can do to short hop when using the Wiichuck:

If you use Tap Jump

- Flick the control stick up fast and let go
- Tilt the control stick up and then immediately tilt it down (This is what I do)

If you DON'T use Tap Jump

- Assign the jump button to... well, almost any button you deem comfortable! Usually, Wiichuck users use C, Z, or one of the D-Pad buttons. Then, just tap it really, really fast.

For any of those methods, it'll take some time to become consistent, but just keep practicing until you can SH and FH whenever you want to! I hope this helped you!

 

[WindMajor]

What's up Kirbys?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

 

[Kewkky]

What's up Kirbys?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

But I told you over messenger...

It's an okay map for Kirby, nothing special. Our gimps are stopped by the rising lava flow, we kill people earlier than usual (and die earlier), we can shark platforms... The stage is nothing special for us. There's much better choices in other stages. I guess Kirby could takje characters with weak aerial games here, and bair/dair them to death easier than in other maps, but I can't think of anything special Kirby can do here, or of anything else we could take advantage of that would give Kirby a notable advantage over opponents.

 

[DRDN]

What about trapping people in the rising lava using inhale

 

[fromundaman]

That's ridiculously situational.


Let's put it this way, when you bring Ganon or Mario to this stage, do you worry about them trapping you in the lava with Utilt or FLUDD respectively? Well, doing it with them is about 10000000 times easier to do than with inhale.

 

[Kappy]

Kewekky pretty much said everything about it, but just to throw this out there, I like to take Diddy there

 

[DRDN]

That's ridiculously situational.


Let's put it this way, when you bring Ganon or Mario to this stage, do you worry about them trapping you in the lava with Utilt or FLUDD respectively? Well, doing it with them is about 10000000 times easier to do than with inhale.

Maybe if we find out the times of the lava we can set that up to help improve kirbys metagame if the stage becomes legal?

And can't we find a way to play catch with the lava. Like a bair to inhale?

Sorry I want kirbys lesser moves to have more uses

 

[fromundaman]

Maybe if we find out the times of the lava we can set that up to help improve kirbys metagame if the stage becomes legal?

And can't we find a way to play catch with the lava. Like a bair to inhale?

Sorry I want kirbys lesser moves to have more uses

As nice of a thought as that is, you don't seem to understand the windbox's property. The windbox only puts them into a freefall state if they hit it after they take knockback. However, with inhale, you have to hit the windbox WITHOUT hitting the grab's hitbox. This is only doable if you are doing a grounded inhale and they have to come up from directly below you and hit a certain part.

Basically, that's WAAAAAAAY too situational, and is honestly way more work than it's worth.

 

[WindMajor]

But I told you over messenger...

It's an okay map for Kirby, nothing special. Our gimps are stopped by the rising lava flow, we kill people earlier than usual (and die earlier), we can shark platforms... The stage is nothing special for us. There's much better choices in other stages. I guess Kirby could takje characters with weak aerial games here, and bair/dair them to death easier than in other maps, but I can't think of anything special Kirby can do here, or of anything else we could take advantage of that would give Kirby a notable advantage over opponents.

But you went offline before I could ask more questions..........

Anyways, I'll just cut to the chase with this one. This stage is okay for Kirby. Could I assume that in a scale of Good, Neutral, and Bad, this stage would fall under neutral? Also, what would Kirby's most dominant strategy for this stage be? Controlling the bottom? Controlling the top? Using the entire stage? Running Away?

 

[fromundaman]

I usually play this stage as gayly as possible, AKA run away until they get pissed off and make a mistake, punish it, and run away again.

 

[Kewkky]

Me, it's control the bottom. From there you have access to all the platforms, you're able to gimp (when the lava doesn't interrupt you), you're furthest away from the blast zones so any slip-up and you survive, and if opponents want to approach Kirby they've got to come in from the air, which means their only options is to attack or not attack, while we have our whole array of options available.

 

[WindMajor]

You Kirbys are so helpful.

I figured that it would be controlling the bottom too, mainly cause Kirby's a lightweight and has a lot of gimping potential, and that he can't really outcamp anyone in this level all that well.

This is sufficient enough for now, but more input is always appreciated.

 

[Kappy]

Personally, I like to jump around Norfair and HUP a lot Especially if I'm camping, but it really depends on the character. Against characters like MK, Diddy, Snake, Marth, Wario, and Olimar, I'd definitely control the bottom.

Against other characters, I will run around and HUP camp and punish mistakes because the character is too slow or they rely on a projectile and I can easily avoid projectiles on Norfair.