Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[Triple R]

I thought glide attack clashes and negates the entire hitbox, and MK can land and Dsmash during your animation. Haven't played that MU much recently though so maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was what happened.

I'm assuming Jowii means if you duck under the glide attack and then hit them with the usmash. If they clash with you, you are in trouble lol, just like you mentioned.

 

[Sage JoWii]

No,...>_> If you read the MK, you USmash a half a second earlier and you'll beat the MK out. Juss try it cuz USmash timing is so janky, and glide attack is about when that player hits the attack button; odds are if you throw it out there, it'll hit. I usually land it fairly often.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... I'll have to try that then. I stopped doing it since it didn't seem safe.

 

[Sage JoWii]

It's not really that safe tbh but it's not terribly unsafe.

Risk/Reward.

 

[t!MmY]

I know that if I were the Meta Knight and I saw Kirby charging the U-smash, that I would use my Glide Attack to clash with the U-smash. Then, with my non-existent landing lag, I would punish the cool-down on the U-smash with one of my exceptionally good attacks (specifically D-tilt, D-smash, Grab, or U-Special).

Charging a U-smash telegraphs waaaay too much to be a good option.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Look, he asked for kill setups and I gave all probable, and useable, options that I personally enjoy when killing MK. Have I killed MKs who are gliding back to the stage with USmash? Yes. Were they good MKs? Usually. How did you manage? I ran from across the stage and USmashed. If I thought I could pull it off, I charged, but you can juss slap them with an USmash and they'll die at like...125~%

Don't knock it til you try it.

Edit: I was gonna say what I do but I'll table it for the Knights of Kirbydom discussion and you can see my thoughts when I post a copy in that thread.

 

[t!MmY]

Charging a smash attack and hoping it works doesn't sound like a 'set up' into a KO option to me.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Well *******, if you'd read my post, I said that if I think I can manage it, I charge it. If not, then I don't and it's a kill 'setup' because MK has to be gliding back to the stage in order to land it.

Splitting hair mutha****er.

I don't see RM complaining that I told him another option to kill MK with. **** you T1m.

 

[DRDN]

if charging an attack and hoping works why not try rock soliding and hoping

 

[Sage JoWii]

Look at this uneducated passerby posting stupidity. I suppose if I respond to him letting him know how stupid he is, I'll just get a 'hurr durr durr I'm trolllllololin' JOWIIIII hurr durr durr derp'.

I hate when people try and cover up stupidity with trolling.

I suppose you could ACTUALLY as stupid as you seem in your post. If that's the case lemme educate you on some things since you're too whatever to ask like the ignorant person you seem to be.

I'm not suggesting that he charge a smash and hope it works. It works. I've tried. I've succeeded. If you're charging a smash, either you're stupid, or you know it works, or you're banking on risk/reward playing out in your favor. This MU is an uphill battle, and as Kirby you're looking to peck and poke @ MK until he's at kill percent. If there's a situation where you can kill MK with moderately low risk, then obviously you should exploit it. If you run to the edge, and charge an USmash, MK has two primary options: Avoid/ Confront. If he avoid, the attack was safe. If he confronts, and you're at the edge, he'll clash w/(OR LOSE to) USmash. If he clashes, it negates and he's still offstage since you're at the edge of the stage when you USmash. If he loses, that a stock.

Riding a stupidity bandwagon will get you no where DRDN. Ignorance isn't cute and 'hurr durr durr troll' just makes you look pathetic. Bring something worth reading to the table before you post. Spam is spam. [Coming from the guy who knows his infractions.]

 

[DRDN]

all i was saying is he asked for KILL SETUPS and you gave him an answer that was not a setup and when called on it you defended it saying it sometimes works well thats not what was asked

after all the **** a couple pages ago about how only certain people should answer questions so we get 100% correct answers your spewing crap that works for you but isnt a guarantee I can say watching chu play that charging a fsmash while MK is on the ledge is a good idea but in all honesty it isnt it just works for him for some reason. Or when I play I know a decent time to RS when a MK is going to use the top of his shuttle loop to hit me and it will kill him (as low as 80% after the hit)

So when asked for setups give setups dont give him crap thats kinda close to the answer when your supposed to be a help to everyone in here

 

[Sage JoWii]

DRDN, you must be the stupidest person in existence. T1mmy has been surpassed.

He asked for KILL SET UPS, and I gave him his kill options. SPLIT HAIRS IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT THEY'RE THE SAME DAMN THING. There is a low, low, percent of 'guaranteed' kill set ups. It's ****ing Brawl you stupid ****.

He asked, and I supplied. It works, it's an option to kill MK, and you're the stupidest speck of **** I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

USmash kills MK. GET AT ME BRO.

Edit: ******, trying to cover your ***, like saying ' Y Dun U try ROCK SLYDE? n hoppe it wrks ' isn't the most obvious stupidity troll ever.

 

[DRDN]

How is that covering my *** its true and if you have a well placed Rock SMASH it kills at even lower % then upsmash especially in my situation because their closer to the top of the screen when their hit

and I cant get at you for saying USmash kills MK because....
.
.
.
.
.
wait for it...
.
.
.
.
all smashs kill MK if used right

and so does the hammer and rock and Bair and some well placed uairs

 

[Sage JoWii]

Oh, then I suppose it wasn't a troll, and you ARE just as stupid as you seem in your posts.

Kirby doesn't have the move 'rock smash' for one. Two, I'm not going to tell someone trying to learn Kirby to put themselves in harm's way by using rock/stone (because it's a terrible move). Can it kill? Sure. Can all moves kill? Sure. But unlike you, I'm not stupid enough to tell someone to go try using Rock against MK when they ask for kill setups. It's a gimmick AT BEST.

My info was legit and you're juss trying to cover up how stupid you looked juss now.

 

[DRDN]

Rock Solid but it sure as hell isnt rock slyde your telling them to do some janky up smash charge near an edge so you might as well tell them to in hale and spit them under the stage and go for a uair stage spike

 

[Sage JoWii]

GAAAWDDAMNIT. DRDN, there is NO ****ING WAY you're this stupid,

Stop trolling. Go somewhere. Please stop embarassing yourself.

USmash is janky and you think ROCK IS GOOD?!??

ROFLMAO.

I'm dying kid. I'm dying. That's the most hilarious thing I've read in a long while.

You're too funny.

I'm done. I wash my hands of you. I can't believe I wasted my time.

ROCK is gud. ****IN LAWL.

 

[DRDN]

Juss try it cuz USmash timing is so janky, and glide attack is about when that player hits the attack button; odds are if you throw it out there, it'll hit. I usually land it fairly often.

thats why I called it Janky I use it a lot in my game and rocks only good in certain situations I never said it should be used often or anything like that

but go ahead and get mad over someone pointing out the stupid **** you said

 

[Sage JoWii]

U rite. I'm dum. UR lyk, way gud to pruv me sooooo wrong.

You called USmash janky. I called the timing for my kill setup, USmash at the edge when MK is returning, janky. There's a difference. It's like any other awkward physic/timing in this game. It's janky. If you learn it, then it's not even a problem.

Now I'm juss doin' it to further prove how stupid you sound when you post.

 

[DRDN]

LOL you are still responding? And still calling it a kill setup?

To better show this janky timing do you have a video?

 

[Sage JoWii]

Course I'm still responding. I educate ignorance.

It's called a kill set up because MK is required to be in position, meeting specific criteria, in order to be killed. You're soooooo stupid.

Here's your janky timing video USmash beats Glide Attack. Why don't you take some time and learn how to play Kirby before you criticize my posts. I, unlike you, know what I'm talking about and choose to not lead newer Kirbies down a path of ruin.

 

[DRDN]

I just thought you would stop responding after you "washed your hands" of me and its still not a setup

and from your video I'm guessing Usmash doesn't beat glide attack

 

[Kappy]

When I think of "setups", I think of Diddy's GT -> Fsmash/Dsmash, of Olimar's descending Nair -> Usmash, Falco's SHDL -> Bdacus Usmash, and Dthrow -> Bdacus Usmash (If improperly DI'd). There's a lot of setups, but Kirby doesn't really have those. He's got Dtilt -> Fsmash, and that's really it.

And that's all he has for every character. He has no other setups, period. It's one of Kirby's flaws. He has to really work for his kills instead of getting into an easy setup that guarantees a kill move will connect.

So, in light of that, I'll give you what JoWii gave you - some other options you can do in certain situations. I, personally, don't call this a 'setup'. I'll also list a few things you can hit MK through so I don't list every situation.

Kirby can Fsmash through the following moves:

- Glide Attack (You must use Fsmash early, if your hitbox reaches MK before he uses GA the probability is high, and if it doesn't, you should be able to PS or SD his punish if you used it early).

- Forward Air (If he's coming at you, and you walk away and Fsmash, it'll hit).

- Nair (Same as Fair).

- Tornado (Bait the tornado, that's the only way you'll be landing an Fsmash on MK when he's in tornado. Angle your Fsmash upwards, too).

You may be thinking, "But Kirby can Fsmash through all of MK's moves!" which is true, but these are the BEST moves to use Fsmash against. Bait the moves, and if he's gliding over the stage, don't be afraid to throw out an Fsmash.

With that said, Dsmash and Usmash are both good, but I prefer Fsmash. Dsmash really only works punishing Grounded SL, and Usmash is good against Glide Attack/Nair (with Nair, it'll probably trade hits, which is fine if you kill him and he just does % to you).

Off-stage against MK is tricky. While many Kirbies think it's suicide, if he starts gliding to recover, you can go off and try and Bair/Dair/Uair/Hammer him. The MOST he can do is GA, and if you're using Dair, you'll be above him. Using Bair/Uair will clash with him UNLESS you bring it out first. Hammer is hard - don't use it unless you're very comfortable with its timing/reach/properties.

The nextt options I can think of against MK is when YOU'RE recovering. Yes, when you're recovering. If you recover all the way to the top, MK's will do one of two things:

- Follow you and try to SL
- Sit on the ground and wait for you

If they wait, you're free to breathe a little. If they DON'T, recover as high as possible and use ROCK. This is probably the only time I actually use Rock, and it's a little risky, but if the MK doesn't spaces his SL right, you've got a nice kill if he's at moderately high %'s. You may be hit before Rock comes out, so be a little cautious when using this.

And if you use it once, don't expect MK to come following you again. He'll start to wait and play more defensive once you punish his aggressiveness.

If you recover LOW, MK will try to gimp you. It's inevitable (and heart-breaking when he succeeds ). So, what I've started doing is slowing down my recovery under the stage and Uair'ing. So far, I've been able to stage spike MK on the corners of the stages with it, and even if it doesn't kill him, I get a free recovery without going through the stress of MK trying to gimp. Try that next time you're recovering low - Uair can beat Dair/Nair, so...

As a side-note, Bair will kill MK at super-high %'s on-stage unless fresh. Bair can go through Nair/Fair if spaced well or thrown out first. Um, and Uthrow at super-high %'s will kill him, too, if you're desperate and all your kill moves are stale.

I think that's everything. It's kinda jumbled up, but that's how I, personally, kill MK. Obviously, the Dtilt -> Fsmash setup Kirby has does work, and it's great if you pull it off, but in terms of any other 'setups', there are none for Kirby, and so you almost have to bait him into spots where you have the greatest chances of landing a hit (this is why the MU is so hard, BTW. It's hard to get him into those spots and KO him because of all the options he has). You have to be a little crafty, but if you pull it off you'll have an easier time killing MK and he'll have a harder time killing you.

Hope that helps you, RM (and anyone else who's been wondering how to kill MK). Hopefully this can quell the argument that's going on, too. LOL.

 

[fromundaman]

Wow...
Okay, seriously, shut up DR. You are being dumb, especially since Jowii gave a pretty detailed description of a scenario to use it in where it is a safe option (Which I am going to start using. Thanks Jowii!):

I'm not suggesting that he charge a smash and hope it works. It works. I've tried. I've succeeded. If you're charging a smash, either you're stupid, or you know it works, or you're banking on risk/reward playing out in your favor. This MU is an uphill battle, and as Kirby you're looking to peck and poke @ MK until he's at kill percent. If there's a situation where you can kill MK with moderately low risk, then obviously you should exploit it. If you run to the edge, and charge an USmash, MK has two primary options: Avoid/ Confront. If he avoid, the attack was safe. If he confronts, and you're at the edge, he'll clash w/(OR LOSE to) USmash. If he clashes, it negates and he's still offstage since you're at the edge of the stage when you USmash. If he loses, that a stock.

On top of that, Kirby doesn't have "Guaranteed" kill setups, so he gave a good kill option. Honestly, you shouldn't be arguing over something so trivial, especially when the meaning was clear.


@Kap: Thanks. That's some good info. I'm going to have to start implementing all of this. That being said, I'm probably still going to go Wolf vs MK, but the more you know...

 

[DRDN]

see now that was an actual answer

Serious question about the usmash situation can't mk just change his direction so he aims at the ledge then uair you as soon as he is out of the glide animation








The edit button is there for a reason. Please learn to use it.

 

[fromundaman]

Quite simply put, common sense.
MK has to be at a certain angle for him to grab the ledge from a glide attack. That position is almost horizontal to where you would be standing. If he comes from that low, why would you Usmash? If you *do* throw out a smash at that, which I don't think would be a good idea anyway in that scenario, it had damn well better be Fsmash.

Now if MK is coming from higher up (AKA anywhere above Kirby's head when he would try to GA), then Usmash is a good option in the proposed scenario.

 

[DRDN]

I'm saying he's out there and gliding down so you run to the edge and he changes his direction to hit you at the edge and then changes it a little before you release to aim at the edge the glide angle shouldn't be that far from what I've noticed playing with mk

 

[fromundaman]

For your situation to allow MK to grab the ledge while gliding down towards you from above then changing his direction (which would involve gliding back upwards), either he's gliding down far enough for the stage that you shouldn't be preparing a counter-attack due to how many options he has and the fact he hasn't tried to come at you yet, or you somehow discovered a way for MK to teleport while in glide.

Since I doubt it's the second, again, common sense. Know what character can do what, and base your response accordingly. Obviously you shouldn't start to charge a smash to intercept if MK hasn't committed to coming at you in glide yet. That should go without saying.

 

[Sage JoWii]

@Kap- Instead of using rock to return from really high, since it's really punishable if the MK isn't going completely aggro, try UpBing. The blade can spike and if you return to the ledge, you don't suffer through the landing lag. MK UAir can beat it but that just gives you another chance at recovering and now MK has to think: If he going to UpB, or recover normally?

It gives you a lotta breathing room; and I rarely get gimped as Kirby against MKs.

@Fromunda- Seriously don't bother trying to get that kid to understand. He simply refuses. If he just went and played the game, he'd already know that USmash has a massive range of hitbox and if a MK tried to cancel his UpB to reach the ledge, the USmash would connect because Kirby's feet extend over the ledge.

 

[MikeKirby]

Kap that post was win! Most of what I do seems to fit in! I actually have used the Rock Vs. Shuttle Loop bait tactic. Heheh, yeah it works like at least once in a set. I even recently started mixing it up with a Final Cutter and seeing how that works out. I was surprised Jowii mentioned it. I feel special.
I still prefer rock vs aggro airborn Meta Knight though.

I never really thought as D-tilt>F-smash as a set-up though. I'm too worried I'll get buffered powershielded to try it.
If they trip then that's another story...

I've started using that U-smash vs Glide Attack. I gotta say I seem to get some decent results. I gotta experiment some more though so I can feel more comfortable rather than debating whether I feel lucky or not. Good looking out guys.

 

[fromundaman]

I really don't think rock should ever work vs MK. I mean, I've landed it once or twice, but it's more because the MKs were overly aggressive and don't pay attention to the animation if you're in the magnifying glass.

Good MKs, on the other hand, should not fall to this. I mean, if they know the sound or animation, it should never happen. For it to hit, you have to bait AND predict SL AND start stone before they are in range to SL (Since they can knock you out of the startup on reaction) AND they still have to want to challenge it despite it being so ridiculously telegraphed, even when you're offscreen.
It is a gimmick to an extreme.
The only time when stone is useful vs MK is if you've been getting SLed offstage and DI'd correctly so that you are now low on jumps and up high with MK attempting to get another SL. Using it in this scenario to get back to the stage to recover jumps even though you're probably getting punished is the only time I would find it useful, and even that is situational.

 

[DRDN]

now a question for the future of the game: Planking

how can kirby stop this from happening and when trying to plank himself what can he do

apperantly major plankers are DK MK Pit G&W

I know that I've hit pits uair with my dair but most of the time that fails so what other options are there

 

[Sage JoWii]

I even recently started mixing it up with a Final Cutter and seeing how that works out. I was surprised Jowii mentioned it. I feel special.
I still prefer rock vs aggro airborn Meta Knight though.
I've started using that U-smash vs Glide Attack. I gotta say I seem to get some decent results. I gotta experiment some more though so I can feel more comfortable rather than debating whether I feel lucky or not. Good looking out guys.

1st paragraph: I <3 ya, so enjoy your 10mins of specialness.
2nd paragraph: Good! That's exactly what you should be doing.

I really don't think rock should ever work vs MK. I mean, I've landed it once or twice, but it's more because the MKs were overly aggressive and don't pay attention to the animation if you're in the magnifying glass.

Good MKs, on the other hand, should not fall to this. I mean, if they know the sound or animation, it should never happen. For it to hit, you have to bait AND predict SL AND start stone before they are in range to SL (Since they can knock you out of the startup on reaction) AND they still have to want to challenge it despite it being so ridiculously telegraphed, even when you're offscreen.
It is a gimmick to an extreme.
The only time when stone is useful vs MK is if you've been getting SLed offstage and DI'd correctly so that you are now low on jumps and up high with MK attempting to get another SL. Using it in this scenario to get back to the stage to recover jumps even though you're probably getting punished is the only time I would find it useful, and even that is situational.

THIS. All of it. Rock is applicable against an aggro MK who has used all of his jumps above the ledge (above and off the stage is optimal) who isn't in SL range, but who uses SL to recover back to the stage; and Kirby has to be on his stage-side. That's sooooo gimmicky and situational XDDDD.

Planking

Sweet spot DAir spike on-stage. FC if they come above the stage slightly while planking. Run-off BAir.

Kirby doesn't do well against planking obviously.

 

[2-2]

now a question for the future of the game: Planking

how can kirby stop this from happening and when trying to plank himself what can he do

apperantly major plankers are DK MK Pit G&W

I know that I've hit pits uair with my dair but most of the time that fails so what other options are there

now a question for the future of the game: Planking
apperantly major plankers are DK MK Pit G&W

Planking

apperantly major plankers are DK MK Pit G&W

apperantly major plankers are DK

I don't even play Brawl anymore...THIS ISN'T EVEN MY CHARACTER!!! DK PLANKING?!? GENGAR PLANKS BETTER THAN DK!!! PLEASE GO SELL YOUR WII AND BUY A GBA SP AND PUHLEEEEEEEESE BUY BUGS BUNNY'S CRAZY CASTLE 4!!!

Spoiler

cwutididthar?I suggested a game that fails at much as your posting history

 

[Sage JoWii]

I don't even play Brawl anymore...THIS ISN'T EVEN MY CHARACTER!!! DK PLANKING?!? GENGAR PLANKS BETTER THAN DK!!!

LAWL. I'm not sayin' anything other than Gengar is SSS Tier.

 

[t!MmY]

Against planking... get the lead.

You can go for a quick edge-hog, which is what I usually do. It prevents them from grabbing the ledge, but of course if it's Meta Knight then you have much more work ahead of you than simply grabbing the ledge. I suppose you can also futilely throw out Final Cutter shots while you wait for them to get bored.

The truth of the matter is that people generally won't plank Kirby because they don't usually feel threatened enough to do so. He really can't out-camp anyone, and he's scarier off-stage than on stage. If someone wants to time-out Kirby, they'll just run away.

 

[Sage JoWii]

****ING DJ V.G.M. WITH THAT SICK EDIT!

I lurv this guy soooooo much right now.

10Homos.

 

[pink-demon]

Hey everyone I'm kinda new to the brawl scene (recently was introduced to the proper basics, after being trolled and not being able to do anything due to frustration, and found I quite liked the game) and was wondering if there was any place I could find a button guide on attacks, I'm really behind so all of my friends explain in terms that i have no idea what they mean.
Thanks

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I have a question:

Kappy and I are going to **** doubles at the next Illinois tournament. :D The main question though is whether I should use DDD or Snake for this affair. I hear Snake + Kirby can be a sick team but not sure about DDD. Can I get some opinions?

 

[Kappy]

A button guide? You mean what's the input for Fair, Dair, Bair, etc...? If you're just picking up the game, check out the tutorial video that's actually on the Brawl game.

I don't know of any button guides, so I'll just make one for you using the GC Controller (assuming you use the GC controller. LOL).

Jab = A (A, A) [A can be held instead of pressed 3 times]
Ftilt = Forward Tilt = Left or right on the joystick (gently) + A
Utilt = Up Tilt = Up on the joystick (gently) + A
Dtilt = Down Tilt = Down on the joystick (gently) + A
Fsmash = Forward Smash = C-stick to the left or right = Left or right on the joystick (hard) + A
Usmash = Up Smash = C-stick up = Up on the joystick (hard) + A
Dsmash = Down Smash = C-stick down = Down on the joystick (hard) + A
Nair = Neutral Air = A in the air
Fair = Forward Air = Direction your character is facing on the joystick + A (or C-stick) in the air
Bair = Back Air = Opposite direction your character is facing on the joystick + A (or C-stick) in the air
Uair = Up Air = Up on the joystick + A (or C-stick) in the air
Dair = Down air = Down on the joystick + A (or C-stick) in the air
Shield = L/R
Spot Dodge = L/R + Down on the joystick
Roll = L/R + Left or right on the joystick
Air Dodge = L/R/Z in the air
Grab = Z
Shield Grab = L/R + A

I hope this helps you!

And @ Tech_Chase: It really depends on who we're facing and who you're most comfortable against as certain chars. I work well with both Snake and D3!

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I suppose we'll figure this out. Infern (name search bait) told me some fun stuff about teaming with Kirby as Snake. Im sure it could work with DDD also. I gots some research to do.