Kirby General Discussion

[Massive]

Actually if you DI fox's bthrow down, he can regrab you.
Marth can too.

That's a SECRET though.

 

[Bing]

Fox can't chaingrab kirby, but he can dthrow techchase really well.

My statement = Kirby can cg d-throw with Jab resets.

Also Adding platforms hardly makes the MU anymore in Foxes favour. I mean he already as one of the best recoveries in the game, giving him platform isnt going to make much of a difference. And like it was already pointed out, a cornered Kirby = You're ****ed. Kirby with a place to go and make it more difficult to cornere = a Happy Kirby.

 

[DerfMidWest]

fox can cover the platforms easily. it helps fox more than kirby because fox can camp better with platforms and run really easily. It just gives him more options in general.
without platforms, fox still can **** kirby though.
Kirby really doesn't have any benefits in the fox mu other than being able to gimp him, which doesn't help much since its hard for kirby to get fox off the stage.

 

[Bing]

Kirby Needs the platforms to help the overall MU. So yeah its losing a bit more because Fox can use any stage pretty well and be extremely effective, but Kirby has less options so anything that benefits him even ifs taking a few steps forward and a few steps back, its still gives him more options.

 

[Massive]

fox can cover the platforms easily. it helps fox more than kirby because fox can camp better with platforms and run really easily. It just gives him more options in general.
without platforms, fox still can **** kirby though.
Kirby really doesn't have any benefits in the fox mu other than being able to gimp him, which doesn't help much since its hard for kirby to get fox off the stage.

With platforms you get the ability to use uair KO platform games. Since by your admission Kirby can only successfully gimp fox for KOs normally, this is a 100% increase in KO potential, how is this not more beneficial to Kirby?

Fox does not double his number of killing moves by getting more platforms.

 

[DerfMidWest]

oh I forgot about uair...

I guess that does help kirby.

 

[bubbaking]

Fox does not double his number of killing moves by getting more platforms.

True, but Fox's number of killing setups increases.

 

[Bing]

And Kirby's viable option to escape/move around more "freely" also increases

 

[bubbaking]

How does Kirby get in on chars with swords, especially Marth and Roy? I try to bait reactions, like one should, but he's too slow with too little range to actually punish with anything outside of dash attack or dtilt. On top of that, they win every trade cuz of that huge disjoint vs my extended hurtbox.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Marth is generally slow apart from aerials.

So just wait until he jumps and then roll under him.

It seems like a dumb strategy but Marth can't really punish it unless he predicts it or you do it with stupid spacing. Once the Marth picks up on the strategy, he has to be more cautious with his aerials, so you can control space better and look for opportunities.

When he is on the ground, you can match him decently with ftilt/dash-dance/shield/etc...

This is how Hack beat Ice.

 

[bubbaking]

Thanks! That's what I figured, for the most part. My biggest problem happens when he just decides to stand there and dtilt instead of the normal DD, especially when he's cornered me. When i try to jump, I get utilted, and when I try to roll behind him, I get fsmashed, so I end up trying to muscle past him with dash attack or some CC attempt, but of course, this isn't a long-lasting solution for someone as light as Kirby... Tbh, I can actually deal with the rest of the sword chars. Marth is the main problem. :/

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Don't forget that you are Kirby in that situation; you've got 6 jumps to burn.

When Marth has you cornered, just jump backwards and try and find a way past him from there. If you find yourself still pressured you can grab the ledge and if he is too close at that point then you can just ledge-hop fair. If he is too far away for that muscling through with a waveland onto the stage > platform waveland/retreating aerial/dash-dance/etc... should work.

Just try to be patient, basically.

I don't want to give the impression that this is full-proof though; Kirby is awful at regaining stage control and you just have to live with that basically

 

[bubbaking]

Gotcha! Yeah, I guess I'm trying to force too much outta the lil' guy, but I'll try out your tips. Thanks!

 

[Bing]

Another possibility is if they are on a platform, you can get in from underneath. Fairly basic strategy, just uair from under, then try and get a u-tilt or something on there(Percentage pending)

What Grim posted is defs your best option.


At Apex me and Hack did Kirby dittos for about half an hour because I asked him to teach me Kirby.

He basically taught them that Kirby is a lot of fun.. -_- lol Hack

 

[KirbyKaze]

Marth is generally slow apart from aerials.

So just wait until he jumps and then roll under him.

It seems like a dumb strategy but Marth can't really punish it unless he predicts it or you do it with stupid spacing. Once the Marth picks up on the strategy, he has to be more cautious with his aerials, so you can control space better and look for opportunities.

When he is on the ground, you can match him decently with ftilt/dash-dance/shield/etc...

This is how Hack beat Ice.

I thought Hack abused Kirby's frame 1 JCable fully invincible roll to beat Ice

 

[bubbaking]

Another possibility is if they are on a platform, you can get in from underneath. Fairly basic strategy, just uair from under, then try and get a u-tilt or something on there(Percentage pending)

What Grim posted is defs your best option.

Thanks a lot, but this is the obvious stuff. Truth be told, Marth rarely ends up on a platform above me. It's usually the other way around cuz I'm trying to escape. However, I've recently started using WL>grab (and sometimes WL>utilt) cuz Kirby gets decent setups on platforms if the opponent's at the right % and he usually shields in anticipation of an uair if he's ever above me.

 

[Massive]

Kirby's dtilt has the same range as Marth's.

I use what amount to guerrilla tactics in this match, you can wavedash in and dtilt and then wavedash out in the hitstun before he can dtilt to retaliate. Kirby's wavedash is also fast enough that you can stay just on the border of how far he can swing his sword and still pop in for a quick tilt or grab.

Marths get really edgy when you're close to their sword but not getting hit. They will usually toss out an fsmash or something, which is a free grab.

Probably the best thing to do unless you're good at aerial fakeouts or the marth is terrible at fairing (that wouldn't be a marth main then, lol) is to stay grounded and deal with his grounded sword stuff. You are not going to win any contests for aerial mobility with kirby.

Oh yeah, and trade bair with dolphin slash while he's recovering. Free KO.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

...That... isn't how hitlag works...

 

[bubbaking]

I think he meant hitstun...

 

[Massive]

I did, whoops.

 

[bubbaking]

About trading bair w/ Dolphin Slash, I go for it sometimes, but I'm always afraid of getting stage-spiked.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Just be ready to tech

 

[bubbaking]

I'm not tech-master tech.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

U should ask to become his tech apprentice

Tech apprentice tech

 

[bubbaking]

You know what? That's exactly what I'm gonna do. Soon, I'll be tech knight tech. In the next smash, they should make it possible to tech off of.......other characters.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Good luck with that. I aksed him to help me get better at teching a while ago so far he hasn't shown me a thing lol

 

[Massive]

...they should make it possible to tech off of.......other characters.

You mean like... footstool jumps?
BAD IDEA IS BAD.

 

[Bing]

I love footstooling people in brawl. Its too good until it happens to you...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby's dtilt has the same range as Marth's.

No it doesn't

 

[Massive]

No it doesn't

It's days like this I wish I had finished the hitbox thread for kirby.

It's actually very close.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I tested the ranges earlier when I said that. I suppose it's not a massive difference, but it's noticeable.

 

[bubbaking]

You mean like... footstool jumps?
BAD IDEA IS BAD.

I don't think you can footstool people out of hitstun, so no, not that. Actual teching that could save your life, not just endanger someone else's.

Edit: Of course, I mean footstooling someone while you are recovering from hitstun. In other words, during a situation where you'd normally be able to tech.

 

[DerfMidWest]

you can tech off the shy guys on yoshi's story.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I've KOed someone using a shyguy before. It was awesome.

 

[Wizzrobe]

I've KOed someone using a shyguy before. It was awesome.

[glow]Didn't know Shy guys could actually help you do that. I thought they were just there to make you mad[/glow]

 

[Pink Reaper]

They can cause certain hitboxes to stay out longer. Ganon loves the shy guys.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Ever since that day, Shy Guys have been my best friend. And he thought he was safe from my edgeguard.

I did do it with Ganon, by the way. Against a Sheik.

 

[DerfMidWest]

they also mess up projectile heavy characters, which is nice.

 

[bubbaking]

Doesn't Pichu use projectiles? Also, how the heck did you tech off of a shy guy? (O_o)

 

[Pink Reaper]

You cant tech off of shy guys. They're active hurtboxes, nothing else.