Kirby General Discussion

[ryuu seika]

That was at least 4, maybe 5 levels of relation away from our conversation.

Not really. Pink Reaper mentioned an offensive use of an upward aerial, all I added was "special" and Wario, the latter not even being required as he's changed his "location" since then to remove the motorcycle anyway.
If it was anyone else, I'd understand your confusion but I only made that joke because it was Pink Reaper.

 

[Triple R]

I didn't get the joke either until you explained it... It was a stretch for most people to get I think lol

 

[Pink Reaper]

If you have to explain the joke it's not funny lol

 

[ryuu seika]

Oh forget it. I expected a better sense of humor from Kirby players.

 

[BunBun]

this friday

 

[ryuu seika]

So, why is it that you lot consider fireball bad again, I've forgotten.

 

[BunBun]

Slow, low priority, forces a commitment with no way of altering course or timing, can't effectively be comboed out of, etc.

It's also been explained to you before.

 

[ryuu seika]

I thought I made it rather clear that I'd had it explained before but forgotten your reasons as most of them seem pretty arbitrary to me. I mean, low priority? What does that even mean here? The move simply does not clank or get beaten out. Its priority in relation to anything but grabs is surely irrelevant, no?

 

[Nashun]

It gets beaten out by pretty much everything. It's slow and laggy and it has no follow-up. The computer players you play don't even come close to punishing it as much as any decent player would. It lasts forever and any commitment longer than like 2 seconds better be a REALLY good one. It doesn't do enough damage or give you enough follow-up options to be worth it. That move SUCKS. If the reasons given were arbitrary to you then you shouldn't even bother asking the question because you're in your own little world and nothing we say will mean anything to you.

 

[ryuu seika]

Commitment time is a reason I can understand but that alone isn't enough. If I could see even a hint of the punishment available, I would understand that part too but I haven't seen anything other than grabs beating it. I know that the comp doesn't punish like it should but I have seen no response whatsoever.

No, it doesn't do much damage but I don't use it for its damage anyway. I use the move as a counter to high priority stuff, namely Marth. When it collides with an attack, I take damage. I am well aware of that. The thing is though, so do they, and they fly a lot further than I do, putting me in a good position to follow up as they land or to juggle them with further Fireballs (if it turns out they can do aerials out of this state then that makes it alot worse).

I know that I'm kind of in my own little world and that I don't think like all you tournament players but I'm honestly trying to understand.

I've gone as far as I can with AI battles and the only way I can improve further and become someone that is actually good at this game is to take advice. I am trying to do so but learning to play games without first hand experience is not something I am good at and taking advice doesn't come naturally to me. I've always been one to do things my own way and disregard anyone who says I should do otherwise. It's done me well in the past but that time is indeed past. I must improve through understanding, rather than gameplay and unfortunately, I'm not sure I can.

I think I've rambled on too much but the point is, I really don't mean the trouble I cause, I'm only trying to learn in the only way I can.

 

[Nashun]

You're wrong, though. It doesn't trade with like 90% of Marth's moves. I don't know where you get your information but I'm pretty sure like all of Marth's aerials will 100% beat out dash attack. The gripe isn't that you're bad and you're trying to learn; it is that you are coming making tons of assumptions that really don't apply to a high-level play and you're acting as if they are.

It would be infinitely easier if you at the very least had correct information, but the fact that you believe Kirby's dash attack has high priority shows that you don't even have the basic fundamentals down.

 

[ryuu seika]

Kirby's dash doesn't have high priority in any situation as it doesn't beat out any move ever. It's just than no non-grab ground move I've seen beats it either and it doesn't clank.
My information is correct to the extent of my experience. I simply have no experience of aerials being used on fireball and my lack of opponents causes similar problems throughout.
As for assumptions, if I disregard everything I think might not apply to your play style, I don't really have anything left to go on.

 

[BunBun]

You state your misinformed opinions as fact after we tell you the correct info, and then try to argue invalid points and are completely unwilling to learn. Even now, you seem to think that it is okay to be wrong because that's all you know. It's not. If you argue with people telling you the correct information, even after you have admitted that you don't have good experience, you can **** off. It only serves to piss us off that you ask for help, then argue with everything we say.

 

[ryuu seika]

Sorry.
As said, I am bad at taking advice, especially when it doesn't make sense to me.
And as you say, I should probably give up on this as it's clearly only serving to annoy both sides (mainly your side though I suspect).

 

[Massive]

Ryuu, moves will only clank if they are within a similar damage rating.

In other news, I've had great success lately with Kirby vs. Marth.
If the marth is reliant on aerial fairs for approach (as in, he does bring the hitbox to the ground and L-Cancel it), nairs, or dashdances you can crouch and hit him with the dtilt hitbox before his sword reaches you.

It felt like a goddamned game changer.

That and trading a bair with his up-b results in an almost guaranteed recovery gimp.
THIS MATCHUP MIGHT JUST BE 4-6 YET! lol

I'm mainly reporting this because I beat someone with kirby that my puff couldn't (which is strange, yet satisfying).

 

[BunBun]

And then Marth stays on the ground and camps tilts. Suddenly it feels 2-8

 

[Pink Reaper]

Actually it's just "Tilt"

Dtilt can cover all of kirby's options since it can IASA into jab which can cover pretty much everything lol

 

[Tamoo]

That's when you go to the edge, hold b and ask "Wanna play a game?"

It takes marth players a while to find a way round it lol. The first couple of times trying to perfectly space an fsmash is priceless

 

[Pink Reaper]

That is until they actually perfectly space an Fsmash lol.

 

[ryuu seika]

Final question: Is there a really simple way to beat 400 in HRC as Kirby?

 

[BunBun]

Batdrop dair.

 

[ryuu seika]

That's not exactly "really simple" now is it?

 

[Massive]

That's not exactly "really simple" now is it?

Yes it is.

You can also l-cancel dair into utilt repeatedly with OK results, but that's not even close to as effective is batdrop-bair.

Aerial Hammer also works pretty well.

And then Marth stays on the ground and camps tilts. Suddenly it feels 2-8

I've never had much problem with tilt-camping Marths. It could be my Jiggs experience guiding me around the blade though.

 

[BunBun]

That's not exactly "really simple" now is it?

It's a 2 step process. That's pretty damn simple.

 

[ryuu seika]

Simple to say...

 

[Skyson]

Fun fact: it is simple. Just realize that Kirby's dair has windup. Then, you succeed.

Kirby/Marth doesn't feel as destructively rampant to me anymore as it once did. Patience and a good handful of mindgames watching him try and mixup his tilt & aerial games is rather entertaining.

Kirby/Fox, though, is still a 101/-1 matchup. Very depressing.

Recklessly tossing fairs against other characters feels very very good to me, for some reason. Maybe the people I play just are impatient when it comes to shieldgrabbing, but I rarely get shieldgrabbed out of a fair that I really wasn't spacing that well. Eventually they'll realize that it's just Kirby and any move they throw out will overpower fair, but until then it's fun watching people feel the need to actually shield against Kirby. :3

Kirbyyyyyy.

 

[Massive]

Kirby/Fox, though, is still a 101/-1 matchup. Very depressing.

It is technically possible to beat a fox, before you realize that
FOX IS A ****ING ****.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Wavedashing out of shield can be pretty good for maneuvering around Fox. But if he laser camps, it kind of ruins everything about that tactic.

 

[Nashun]

Wavedashing out of shield is pretty good for maneuvering around everyone. That's like saying shorthopping is a good way to use aerials against Sheik, but if she ftilts a lot it kinda ruins everything about that tactic.

 

[Massive]

Sheik is actually one of kirby's better matchups.
Tilts outrage the legs somehow.

Plus if you eat her you gain NINJA NEEDLE POWER.
Kirby+needles = edgeguard city.

 

[Nashun]

Hahahahah. Way to miss the point.

 

[Massive]

I can't miss the point, I have needles.

 

[BunBun]

Kirby can't deal with a campy sheik

 

[ryuu seika]

Unless the Kirby is also Sheik apparently...

 

[Pink Reaper]

I generally hold A at the start of every match in hopes that I will become sheik.

 

[ryuu seika]

Lol.

I hold B in the hopes I'll become MH...

 

[Pi]

kirby is funsies
though i've never felt so useless recovering vs. fox as i do when i'm kirby

also my people don't know how to fight kirby, so he's still fun

what are the main anti kirby strats for fox/falco/marth/sheik/cfalc

 

[BunBun]

Fox: Anything
Falco: Pew pew and pillar mixups. KO with easy edgeguard or doubleshine
Marth: Tilt camp (dtilt mostly), never jump.
Sheik: Needle>grab>fair is as good as it gets. Bair edgeguard humps, I guess. Not that bad IMO.
CFalc: lolchaingrab. DD camp, dthrow knee. Match over

 

[BunBun]

Humps=gimps
Autocorrect is stupid.

 

[Triple R]

Haha Bunbun, you're so down and out about Kirby lately. I know Kirby has a bad recovery, but I still find myself recovering the majority of the time. The only matchup I would call close to hopeless is fox, all the rest are easily doable.